Now is the time to open up for character transfers between accounts on Classic. I've unsubbed on my other accounts, but I still want to play on a single character, and I would like to keep all my alts too.
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Now is the time to open up for character transfers between accounts on Classic. I've unsubbed on my other accounts, but I still want to play on a single character, and I would like to keep all my alts too.
https://www.reddit.com/r/classicwow/..._that_he_will/
The hunt against multiboxer is beginning
I have no words
RIP guys, thank you for all people which dedicate to help others and genuily played the game for real
F*** all botter or toxic 20x multiboxer farming retail and selling golds for real money, you did this to us, thank you very much..
Botting was against the TOS before this change already. And it is up to blizzard to fix farming on node spawns to be pickable by 20 characters of the same player.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wzz81
Stop blaming players for systems that got designed poorly.
Well, I hated those farmers, cuz they stayed on spots for like 14-18h each day, while i was able to do 1-2h per day(sometimes even w/o farm). I spent like 1 month on this and then stopped, because all phases/CRZ's were filled and I got just bored. I was forced to search for free spots for like 20-30m in order to do 1h-2h farm.Quote:
Originally Posted by schmonz
But ye, existance of hyperspawn, multiple gathers and so on not our fault one way or another.
Fun thing, hyperspawns still gonna be a thing for randoms. They can finally farm freely :) (ofc if Shadowlands would have spots, I'm not sure about this yet)
I mean, you could just use ISBoxer to round-robin keystrokes so each press is only sending one action to one client per keystroke.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kruschpakx4
That's beside the point, though. I suspect Blizzard will ban anything that even looks like multiboxing going forward. It doesn't matter whether you're hardware boxing or using any other method. The intent of the rule change is pretty clear.
No, I don't think you can use ISBoxer to round-robin. It seems pretty clear that you cannot use ISBoxer (or Keyclone, HKN, etc) at all - there seem to have been reports of people getting warning from people using ISB with only a single client. At the moment it seems like Blizz is focusing on software detection and reporting - all the known multiboxer tools are getting people warnings.
I disagree with your 2nd statement though - Blizzard has clarified a few times now that they are not banning multiboxing. I don't think we yet know their intent or how tolerant they will be of non-software broadcasting approaches. We know they're fine with people operating multiple toons at the same time on /follow and alt-tabbing between them. (Which almost seems odd because their change won't stop 40-account herb farming - but that's a separate discussion.) But if we come up with a non-software broadcasting method that makes multiboxing almost as effective as it used to be - will Blizzard tolerate that? No one yet knows.
I see a few ways forward that we're exploring now. 1) Hardware multicasting - which I agree may also be problematic from a "spirit of the law" sort of thing - I think I've volunteered to be that guinea pig. 2) Non-multibox software versions of round-robin keyboard input (e.g. using hardware or software system to cycle the input to various clients - think "alt-tab", but faster and keybound to something easier to press rapidly). 3) Non-multibox software versions of controlling window and mouse input such that a user could easily mouse over different windows and provide input to that window easily.
I got a warning and I haven't logged in since last week. I think Blizzard is sending warnings to all accounts flagged in some way with multiboxing or to all accounts with multiple active subscriptions on one BNet, etc. The prohibition is against key broadcasting between multiple clients. Using ISBoxer or any other software for legitimate purposes is still allowed.Quote:
Originally Posted by jak3676
Obviously I can't know for sure how Blizzard will treat workarounds like hardware boxing but the intent of the change was explicitly to prohibit key broadcasting. I don't think explaining that you're achieving the same result using hardware will exempt you from being banned.
"I did rob the bank, Your Honor, but I used a knife, not a gun!"
Well that sucks! I've been 5 boxing since TBC. I have refunded 4 of my 5 shadowlands I got in feb. I can't refund any more onto my blizz account so the epic edition on my main has been kept. Honestly was not too optimistic about the way the game was going anyway so maybe this isn't a bad thing. If this had happened in legion when I was loving the game I would have been gutted.
I guess it would only last so long. I was multiboxing 10 accounts since TBC. It was so fun, but I guess when they removed follow in BG's it got less fun and now they changed their rules to suit their needs of making more in game currency. I guess standing still farming the same spot for hours and making easy gold was too much for blizzard. They did not want to change their system on how things spawn so just add a new rule and not allow multiboxing.
I stopped a while back but came back to farm a bit in legion then stopped again. Multiboxing was only super fun in dungeons and battlegrounds and arena. Time to shelve all my accounts for good once again.
It was the best in TBC. No one was doing it, nor could anyone afford the hardware to do it. Keyclone was very basic but it did its job well back then. May all my accounts rest in peace.
GG all, it was fun. I will see you all in another hobby ay.
I still multibox daily (classic only), have not gotten a warning yet. But don't really care as I'm just doing it until the accounts close in 2 more days. Just farming the crap out of things I want for my main before the boxing accounts close. My main isn't part of my multiboxing setup so could care less what happens to the other accounts at this point.
In addition to multiple reports of warnings from multiple people using ISboxer with any/all broadcasting turned off, we have the following message from the developer behind ISboxer and InnerSpace:
Update from Lax in the ISboxer Discord on 11/06/2020 at 10:31 AM:
"They are detecting Inner Space being used, and issuing warnings for "using software intended for input broadcasting". So it doesn't matter which features you disable."
https://i.gyazo.com/d9c0633a77957bc0690dab823cc16692.png
My respectful recommendation to everyone is to stop using ISboxer/InnerSpace with either Classic WoW or Retail WoW until we know more. Official announcements from Lax are typically in the ISboxer Discord's #announcements channel.
Lax is also working on a new "skinny" release of ISboxer/InnerSpace that will hopefully be compliant with Blizzard and hopefully officially OK'ed by Blizzard (may end up with a new name instead of ISboxer/InnerSpace).
Well, as I said, hyperspawn still gonna be a thing.
https://imgur.com/a/xSdvXVr
Looks like 107x accs w/o soft. So, ye
I don't see how that can reasonably be done via pure hardware without software.Quote:
Originally Posted by woloss
How are all the windows sliced like that?
How are all the clients getting inputs?
How are all the clients launched and in how many OSes?
Bottom line is whatever they are doing is going to be looked at by Blizz and then likely Nuked so we should all be ready to BOHICA.
I don't know, but looks like he is using just 1 Windows 10. I'd better go with few VM's, due to lack of VRAM at least.Quote:
Originally Posted by nodoze
Windows sliced manually, probably combined with custom resolution through Nvidia Control Panel.
As for inputs, it's pretty simple, Windows 7 - 10 have workarounds. + some adjustments in-game. Main focus on mouse here.
It appears to me the whole reason for Blizzard doing what they did was to prevent bots from having such an easy way to "multi-bot" in the first place. Not as a direct attack on multiboxers themselves, just collateral damage that they can live with unfortunately. So any new means to try and skirt the software ban, but still ends up making it easily accessible to the botters, will be looked at unfavorably from now on.
If Lax is working on something that somehow prevents botting with it, great, I'm all for it and can't wait to try it. But if botters can still jump on the bandwagon and utilize it for scummy play, I don't have my hopes up for it. That goes for any workaround people come up with, if botters can easily do it to setup hundreds of accounts, you can pretty much forget about it. Blizzard will ban first, and let you try and convince them why they should reopen your accounts.
Even with 128GB of ram on my machine and a beefy processor I have a hard time seeing it done on 1 windows machine & VMs would add overhead.Quote:
Originally Posted by woloss
Maybe on a threadripper or multi-cpu machine with more ram it could be done but I have had issues with pipelines and underlying windows infrastructure when going with more than 30 copies of games in the past (was only using about 70 of my 128GB of RAM but windows could not handle all the client interactions and the 8GB VRAM on my graphics card was not enough...
It may indeed be doable and if it is that sucks because folk like him/her will likely cause the other shoe to drop (or the next nuke which will ban hardware multi-broadcasting)...
He have 3970x with 256gb. With such weird resolution, must be fine with VRAM and so on. Well i did 16 chars on my 970 3.5GB in 3840x1575(or smth like this), in most cases its fine, for farm its way more than enough, for pve/pvp, not really.Quote:
Originally Posted by nodoze
Well, VMs won't add much overhead, plus even 3xxx AMD series have infinite fabric. In some cases you can divide clients to good CCX and so on(on 2990wx it gives better performance than native, but ye, not sure about 3xxx totally, they reduced infinite fabric involve).
On the other hand, with VMs you need to move two mice, rip wrists :D
Ok, so lets say someone finds a "legal" way around the TOS, do you think blizz is gonna take the time to investigate once you get reported? if they see a multiboxer, they see someone broadcasting keys, I dont think theres a way around this
Warden scanning your memory, so, I guess they know what are you using and make decision based on this. If you don't have innerspace/ahk/hkn in background, you must be fine.Quote:
Originally Posted by emmanuelfs
It is not that difficult for Blizzard to stop everyone from doing 1 action into more than 1 wow client for most scenarios.Quote:
Originally Posted by woloss
Discussion on how to do this here:
https://www.dual-boxing.com/threads/...194#post433194
There are some ways to try to obfuscate and try to get around this... For example sending every wow client through something like a "TOR network" or to a different VPN destination and have each client login to a different server but even that could be tracked with the right analysis process of time/patterns.
I coded my own multibox key broadcast application in python in less than 2 hours (for educational purpose). Every Script-Kiddy can do this.Quote:
Originally Posted by woloss
I'm sure that Warden would detect my application if I would use it (will not try it --> ToS). I don't think that Warden is that stupid = scan for Innerspace, IsBoxer etc. and thats it.
If you broadcast the same key to all clients (no matter if it is hardware or software based) I'm sure you will get a ban ... sooner or later
The only method that would work is:
- use separate Hardware for each client
- don't send the same key to all clients at the same time
- don't look like a multiboxer ingame (biggest challenge)
Not gonna happen, I already explained in a previous post why 👇Quote:
Originally Posted by Bodom
We are fucked. I also want to transfer all my classes to the account where I will 1-box from now on, but looks like I will have to level/boost all on them again. :mad:Quote:
Originally Posted by Spyro
Ofc not, but first trigger is this. Anyway, how that guy farmed hyperspawn isn't a software/hardware boxing, delay exists as well, and its naturally random. Unless you gonna say that built in things in Windows are 3rd party.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kraxx
Anyway it doesn't matter. Until they fix hyperspawns or multinodes, botters, bot boxers will exist, with soft or no, means nothing. Because overall they earn way more money even with bans.
I am not sure if this is anything significant but I heard blizzard is adding gamepad support and gamepad allows for some strange interfacing inconsistencies that I have experienced in other games like continuing to fly a plane in battlefield even though the menu is in your face and your mouse and keyboard wouldn't be able to do it with the menu currently on while game is running in background. Maybe there is a way to take advantage of something like how a gamepad works when blizzard allows for gamepad support.
After trying to press the support for a few tickets regarding weather or not using a macro capable mouse or autohotkey script to rebind windows hotkeys for switching active process (alt+tab etc..) would be a problem, i got the impression they were pretty specificly told to purposefully be vague on the subject and to stick just to copy pastas, pointing towards the ToS.
I did get the following response in the end. https://gyazo.com/cce968c84b6365fa4658704a61049285
So there might be further blues comming to clarify the intent of the change and/or specifics regarding hardver/vm etc...
Welp, like most here, I am not entirely surprised that the metaphorical Damocles' Sword has finally dropped. That being said, I regret being on a 6 month sub for my accounts, but happy that I never purchased the new expansion.
So long, folks. It was nice to hang out here with like-minded gamers, but life goes on.
/wave
Just incase it hasn't been mentioned - this is how i used to do it back in the BC/Wrath days.
http://www.vetra.com/wow.html + 5x PCs
I agree its a slippery slope at this point, and I probably wouldn't invest the money with the corporate stance change. I literally threw out my old PS/2 multi-casters like three weeks ago, then saw this. Crazy timing. I recently came back to WoW after quitting for like many many years. I have noticed a lot of what I thought were multiboxers (3-5x Boomkins) running around completely controlling questing zones. Tried messaging them - nothing. They're bots. At that point I had a feeling that multiboxing in WoW was on its way out.
Good luck to ya'll.
Hmm, weird, I got warning message. I didn't play on retail since February via ISBoxer. Currently, just playing dualbox for lvling and some other stuff. ISBoxer/InnerSpace still installed, but didn't launch game through it. Even keyboard, mouse soft, everything disabled. The only possible thing that I had InnerSpace opened in background while at battle.net launcher, but I closed it before hitting "Play" button.
Fun thing, mail was received like 1h later after I tried GSE, but ofc it's not due to it, because GSE is based on WoW API.
Maybe it's due to Input Director, but i'm using it just to control laptop.
@woloss ISBoxer/InnerSpace just being installed will be enough to get a warning. You need to completely uninstall ISBoxer/InnerSpace if you want to keep playing WoW. Blizzard is detecting based on the software being present - whether or not you are using that tool to violate the policy or not. Some of the warnings are even going out based on previous usage of these tools.
Someone else on discord provided this today:
i got a warning today and asked gm that topic. Because i dont use anythinggm said me
"As far as we are aware, these emails have been set to all accounts that have previously input software or tools in the past and are specifically a warning
If you are currently not using the software or intend to use in the future, then you will be fine"
Input Director has Keyboard and Mouse Features and is a software KVMQuote:
Originally Posted by woloss
Quote:
Originally Posted by jak3676
This is simply not true! Blizzard has little to no interest in what you have installed on your computer. Why would they? Only what you have running and interacting with the game's memory or the method being used to send input to the game. SendMessage and PostMessage are api's common for developers making such apps. Guess what else uses / abuses them? Bots.
This kind of misinformation is not at all helpful for the community.
They can prolly read file system too, but I don't know, pretty easy to track if WoW was opened via soft or not, from memory.Quote:
Originally Posted by jak3676
Well, maybe gonna make clean Windows VM without soft at all, then, just for WoW.
Sure it is. But I don't know, how is this multiple actions per press thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tin
The use of input broadcasting software that mirrors keystrokes to multiple WoW game clients will soon be considered an actionable offenseQuote:
Originally Posted by woloss
https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/ne...sting-software
I disagree. GM's have said they're looking for and reporting for any use of the software - even if its not interacting with the game. They're now providing warnings on "using software intended for input broadcasting". Didn't Lax recommend to uninstall it himself? The new version ("Joe MultiBoxer" 'JMB') is an all new .exe and all .dlls (because they know Blizzard is scanning for the presence of these current version). I can repost the links to people saying they've gotten warnings even though they only used it for window setup, or even where they only have a single account active.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pocahuntess
Happy to have to have a discussion about this if you think I'm wrong, but I don't think its fair to call it "misinformation". I think our community's recommendation should be to uninstall ISBoxer and InnerSpace completely.
My bad, didn't know about "Mirroring" function. Well, need to write some "Before WoW launch" checklist :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Tin
Please show us where GM's have said this! Again- using and installed are very different things. The two shouldn't be conflated. When Blizzard sends out a warning or action, it is for a specific account with specific reasoning.Quote:
Originally Posted by jak3676
NO ONE has received a warning that says "because we detected X software installed on your pc".
An actionable offense will always specify the account and the action: "We detected X on this account". Meaning you did something WHILE playing on that account.
I have it on good authority that blizzard is looking for a specific type of software interaction with their games. And it is this type of interaction that was being exploited.
If LAX is recommending we uninstall, I have not received that notice. And I do still use the software with OTHER games.
Multiple people in the ISboxer Discord have said they received warnings when running WoW with InnerSpace in the background even though they did not use ISboxer nor InnerSpace in any way to launch nor interact with WoW.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pocahuntess
He does not disagree with this, neither do I. Where I, and I assume Pocahuntesss, disagree with Jak3676 is in just having it installed is an actionable offense, this is completely untrue.Quote:
Originally Posted by nodoze
Yes Blizzard can detect it if it is a running process and can then action your account because they will detect the prohibited software. But just having it installed and NOT running they cannot (or at least SHOULD not) be able to see this as that is a giant breech of privacy. That's like saying they can see all my nudes just because its "installed" on my hard drive. It's completely wrong.
Saying just having innerspace installed and is detecable without being a running process and therefore actionable IS misinformation. You do NOT need to uninstall innerspace to keep playing WoW. You DO need to make sure it is closed and NOT a running process to keep playing wow without getting actioned.
I'll try to go back and dig up some more links that people have gotten from GM's recommending uninstall. I've read a few similar to this one. https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...13290/rip2.png Uninstalling has been discussed on the ISBoxer discord - I thought that recommendation came from Lax himself, but I don't see it in the announcements so I'll have to dig. Blizz is clear that they're looking for the presence of software intended for software broadcasting - not necessarily just its interaction with the game client. You cannot just avoid using the offending pieces and try to keep the rest - there is no portion of ISBoxer that's safe to use with WoW. It will have to recompiled into a whole new application with new support files before its safe to use again. Would you recommend that someone keep software installed that if accidentally left running may get the user banned?
I totally get the difference between installed, running (but not interacting with the WoW client) and interacting with the WoW client. Warden can only look at stuff in memory - not scan your hard drive for the presence of files. I wasn't trying to make a point about how warden works, I was replying to the user above who said he hasn't used it all, but just had it running in the background. Where I said that you'll get a warning by leaving it installed, I don't mean that warden (or whatever else Blizz uses) will find it on your hard drive, but that if its installed and you ever once have something left in the background, or there's some portion still present in memory; then you'll be in trouble once Warden finds it. My original could have been better - I'll say "present" as opposed to "installed". My point in replying to the user was that Blizz can scan for all software running - even if its not interacting with the WoW client directly. So if you leave ISBoxer installed just for window management, FPS optimization, or for other games, then forget to make sure everything is closed before you run WoW, that's just asking for trouble. To fix that issue - its best to uninstall.
I full stand by the recommendation to completely uninstall InnerSpace, delete ISBoxer and remove the addon that's installed in game. I think that should be this community's recommendation for anyone who plays WoW until JMB is released. I think it would be irresponsible to suggest leaving ISBoxer installed is OK. It may be possible that some users can keep it installed and always make sure they have a clean memory (reboot every time you want to play WoW) but I think many people will mistakenly leave something running and not even know it.
The original policy update was pretty clear - its not just that they will begin banning for input broadcasting via software, but that players "should not use this software while playing World of Warcraft"Quote:
Originally Posted by jak3676 https://www.dual-boxing.com/images/t...post-right.png
I disagree. GM's have said they're looking for and reporting for any use of the software - even if its not interacting with the game..Quote:
Originally Posted by Pocahuntess
https://worldofwarcraft.com/en-us/ne...sting-software
This ticket response may more clear - don't use the software even if you're only a single player. Blizz considers ISBoxer prohibited software
https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wo...nputs/708987/8
If we're debating if the software needs to be interacting with the WoW client or merely running - Blizz is clear that they check for both, by looking at your systems memory https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...18/unknown.png
But yes, the offending program would have to be present in memory, not just on the hard drive without being used.
Is there any of this that we disagree with?