Thinking of 25 boxing WoW - Not sure about a lot of things

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I heard from a couple people that it is bandable.

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I'd like to see an official source on that - a WoW forum search and my old mate Google both say the opposite, though with no explicit blue comment.

Some of these mods have been around since 2006, are still maintained, still work, do nothing more than synchronise calls to a public LUA function, and the closest I found to a credible comment on their legality is an ollllllld post from an MVP and a European thread from a while ago.

The European thread sees somebody asserting the legality of one of these mods, some.. erm.. "discussion" (*cough*) ensuing, and a blue closing the topic due to the flamefest without contradicting the intial assertion.

In short, I have no reason to believe these mods are in any way illegal, but I wouldn't want to rely on them to get a full 25 man team into AV simply because they're not THAT reliable :)

Thanks for the clear up Otlecs. It was just hearsay that i heard it from, like realm chats and bg chats. I would probably open a forum, email, or open a ticket before i would try it though just in case. To get 25 toons band at lvl 51 or higher would really suck.

concerning priests, i would also add that in the x-pac the 51 point holy talent is "guardian spirit" - basically throws a guardian spirit on your target that increases healing to said target as well as preventing them from dying by sacrificing itself and giving them 10% of their life. could be interesting.

I've gotta say running 10 characters is a full time job. I actually read all 7 pages worth of comments, but i'm gonna go ahead and say it again. Wow is built around the 5 man party and you're going to be forced to micro-manage your guys 5 at a time.

I've tried 10 boxing the battlegrounds. It's really not fun. I blame part of it on my class setup, (and i keep myself awake at night thinkign about 10 mages) but you're going to lose pretty much every single battleground because you can't complete the objectives. It's fun for awhile 'oneshotting' people, but it gets old. Fear will ALWAYS be a multiboxers worst nightmare and the only way out of it is shamans.

People have already talked at length about a shaman's viabilty to heal. I haven't personally tried using my shamans to passively heal like I use my paladins, but it is micromanagement. A priest is the best multiboxer multitarget healer where a paladin (imo) is the best single target healer.

The best setup I've seen mentioned (for pvp since i think you've already said PVE is out of the discussion for now) is the priest, shaman, mage setup. But with only 1 shaman per group fear -will- become an issue at some point. it pulses every 3 seconds, so there is time for someone to run out of follow range, or worst case someone kills one totem protecting a group and then it's gameover for those guys. I think someone else made a good point about fear having a maximum number of targets, so it might only happen once in a blue moon that a fear hits an unprotected team member. The other problem is your using 3 classes so you're multiplying the available abilities by 3. Everytime you add classes you are adding micro management.

You know, if you're just doing PVP and the number has to be 25 (24?) then why do you need mages for firepower? It's been mentioned several times that most of the mages will just be firing at corpses. Maybe you can take one of the weaker DPS classes and by using a huge amount of them you'll still have that insta-gib effect but with more utility than a mage brings.

25 paladins holy shocking? Consecration? what rogue could stand in 25 consecrations? how long? 25 priest holy novas? (fear is still an issue with these classes)
Maybe 10 Shamans + some other class.

I'd only 25 box for PVE bragging rights, and in the current state of the game I don't think it's possible to kill any 25 man raid bosses. I can't even take down netherspite. That encounter is just asking 3 people to act independently and it's just soo hard to do it solo. I cant imagine an encounter that demands more than 3 people to be awake.

I'm confused

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Originally Posted by Sam DeathWalker

Thinking of 25 boxing WoW - Not sure about a lot of thingsAs you know I am the 24 boxer From EQ. As I already have all the equipment in place I am thinking of 25 boxing WoW but I know nothing about the game. I do know that there are 62 WoW players for every 1 EQ1 players and it seems it might be time for me to go where the majority is.

I think my machines can take 5 instances of WoW each, as they work on 4 instances of EQ NP. If I have to upgrade Ill do so.

The way I work in EQ is I have 6 monitors and 6 computers and flip through each group starting an in game macro or social. I can go through all 4 groups in under 2 seconds.

Not sure if that will work in WoW, but it should.

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Originally Posted by Sam DeathWalker

I played a mage in World of Warcraft since its release. After seeing the alpha talents for mages in WotLK and seeing the damage out put of my mage versus warlocks in inferior gear in Black Temple, I opted to reroll. I have since leveled a warlock and warrior to 70; primarily due to the leaked WotLK alpha talents. If my mage is ever to be touched again, Blizzard has some serious overhaul work to be doing. I have to say it's pathetic that already a warlock in tier 5 can out DPS a mage in tier 6... if WotLK talents stand as they are now... mages are to be a thing of the past. My form class has been ignored so long and faced so much degradation, that I've finally chosen to just reroll and become a warlock and or warrior since Chaos Bolt and Titan Grip are so superior to "annoying sparkler" or any of the other pathetic mage treats. I highly recommend rerolling my mage brothers, because frankly, we've been ignored since day 1.

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So have you played before or not?

No that a quote from the wow forums from some guy complaining about mages.

Well the above posters sure make a very very strong case for having shaman/priest/3mage groups. Gonna have to really think it over again. I think one tank is overall worth it, maybe i have to do some 5 or 10 man content at some point who knows? The Orc Shaman and female undeads is a great idea also heh.

Boy thats bad news about AV might not get in all 25 ... dang. I guess I really have to wait and see how http://wotlk.wowhead.com/?zone=4197 wintergrasp works out. Seems like that and cities are my only options. Kinda sad really.

I kinda dont understand the world will have say 3000-4000 enemies in it at any one time, I'll be on a pvp server and there is no where I can go where I will run into them? They all going to be in instances? Isnt there some kind of enemy stronghold or something? Is there a popular spot where there are lots of instances that people ususaly buff outside of? I see they are safe in their own territory lol ..

The 15X15 BG's are also que 5 at a time? LoL ...

for someone who has boxed as many characters as sam has (in any game) im sure hes aware of the difficulties and time involved.. having to res/repair targets and regroup after a while, for example. people that play single characters might say the same thing to us about playing 5 or 10. its all about perspective and what you enjoy. sam obviously enjoys pushing the envelope =P

as for tremor totems.. he's planning on starting after WoTLK. at which point totems will be raid-wide. 5 staggered tremor totems will completely eliminate fear within their radius.

micromanaging 5 shamans, 5 priests and 15 mages wont, i think, actually be all that difficult (aside from general boxing issues like lag, losing /follow, etc) as long as you keep things simple.

hotkey: castsequence/reset to cycle your totem field.
hotkeys: (example) alt+1 through 5. target groups 1 through 5.
hotkey: (G15, set to toggle on/off) spam r1 chain heal/CoH. obviously, this would have to have an in-game keybinding to trigger casting.. but switching heals on/off with a G15 allows you to start your heals and only have to switch targets depending on which group is being targeted, and theyll start getting healed. you can cast low rank CoH/chain heals all day long.. i cant see mana being an issue unless youre in combat for 10+ minutes straight, with no break to stop and drink.

then, your standard 1-9 keys are purely reserved for DPS/sheep/counterspell, etc with the mages.. which is exactly like playing a single mage, only multiplied by X.

so.. effectively, youre playing your entire healer setup with two buttons. target a group, toggle heals on/off. very simple.

I bet if you ran into a major city and bombed the auction house a few times that would get their attention.

Because my groups are on 5 different computers I have basically perfect autofollow. Of course I can only move one group at a time. So like my leader toon (shaman) will be on the main computer and the 4 followers will be on seperate computers. Autofollow has problems when the leader and follower are on the same computer. I think Ill have little problems with the hardware/control part (just ordered 2 more HP 2335 1920X1200 monitors, so I have 4 of them now and 2 that are 1650X1080 or whatever).

Ya keep it simple is the key for sure, I was reading about macros and scripts all last night and except for buffs I doubt i gonna hardly use them, I just going to target with warrior, then assist arcane barrage, cycle from group 1 to group 5 untill the target is dead. If not dead then do the same again, because only 3-4 mages will attack at one time I won't waste mana.

Lets say its 1Prest/1Shaman/3Mage per group for simple. Because cool down is 3 seconds Ill switch between group in 3/5ths sec each (I can do 3 switch in 2 seconds now)

Start: 3 mages hit
.6 seconds later 3 mages hit again
1.2 3 more
1.8 3 more
2.4 3 more
3.0 first 3 again after cool down.

If target is dead after say 9 mages then I just cycle to the first gorup again, target someone else and repreat. Basically I wont even use macros or scripts, at least for non healing offesive. Thats kinda why a warrior is needed for targeting, Once I lose my assist Im kinda hurting. On the other hand if they are targeting the warrior then they arnt attacking the cloths lol ...

So press one key to cycle between groups, and one key to cast arcane barrage. Then just alternate untill target is dead. Also same thing staggers the totems perfectly.

i wouldnt bother cycling your targeted nukes. sure, you may conserve a little bit of mana.. but you also give your targets a chance to run out of range (will happen often, anyway. people will generally see you and run, regardless if youre targeting them or not).. or be healed. since you have 15 mages, one nuke from each mage will nearly always instakill a target. since each mage only needs to cast once per target, you will rarely have mana issues unless youre forced to resort to AoE spam.

i run 5 PC's, also. 2 clients per. moving one group at a time wont work. it will kill your response time and give you that much less time to DPS. just set your /follow on your focus target and switch it between your mages, changing the lead mage frequently to throw people off trying to "kill your main" which many people seem to think will stop a boxer. since all the mages should be set up identically, switching between mages as your lead client shouldnt cause much problem. have two separate follow keys.. one for all your toons, one for mages only. when youre about to engage, stop moving on your main. your alts will stop in a perfect stack behind you. drop your totem field and hit your >Sit hotkey. this will drop all your characters out of follow, and your healers will stand up again automatically as soon as you start your heal sequences. then hit your mage-only /follow key , target your lead mage group with your healer focus hotkey and start your heal macro.

personally, i wouldnt even bother micromanaging heals except, obviously, to change which group is being healed. just start the macro and forget about it so you can focus your full attention on killing with the mages. downloading a good UI with a clear raid bars will help a lot so you can see straight away who in the raid is being targeted by hostiles (the bars turn red) and change your healer focus to anticipate damage. dont worry too much about conserving mana. circle of healing rank1 costs 300 mana. my priest has 11,000 mana and regens 160 mana/5 sec, plus you will have mana spring totem. youd have to be spamming r1 CoH for literally 5+ minutes straight to run OOM. if you havent wiped out any opposition inside of 5 minutse with 15 mages, something si wrong.

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Originally Posted by 'Sam DeathWalker',index.php?page=Thread&postID=93333#po st93333

So press one key to cycle between groups, and one key to cast arcane barrage. Then just alternate untill target is dead. Also same thing staggers the totems perfectly.

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Originally Posted by 'Sam DeathWalker',index.php?page=Thread&postID=93333#po st93333

Because my groups are on 5 different computers I have basically perfect autofollow. Of course I can only move one group at a time. So like my leader toon (shaman) will be on the main computer and the 4 followers will be on seperate computers. Autofollow has problems when the leader and follower are on the same computer. I think Ill have little problems with the hardware/control part (just ordered 2 more HP 2335 1920X1200 monitors, so I have 4 of them now and 2 that are 1650X1080 or whatever).

Ya keep it simple is the key for sure, I was reading about macros and scripts all last night and except for buffs I doubt i gonna hardly use them, I just going to target with warrior, then assist arcane barrage, cycle from group 1 to group 5 untill the target is dead. If not dead then do the same again, because only 3-4 mages will attack at one time I won't waste mana.

Lets say its 1Prest/1Shaman/3Mage per group for simple. Because cool down is 3 seconds Ill switch between group in 3/5ths sec each (I can do 3 switch in 2 seconds now)

Start: 3 mages hit
.6 seconds later 3 mages hit again
1.2 3 more
1.8 3 more
2.4 3 more
3.0 first 3 again after cool down.

If target is dead after say 9 mages then I just cycle to the first gorup again, target someone else and repreat. Basically I wont even use macros or scripts, at least for non healing offesive. Thats kinda why a warrior is needed for targeting, Once I lose my assist Im kinda hurting. On the other hand if they are targeting the warrior then they arnt attacking the cloths lol ...

So press one key to cycle between groups, and one key to cast arcane barrage. Then just alternate untill target is dead. Also same thing staggers the totems perfectly.

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Its like he doesnt even read what anyone is saying. Its VERY obvious YOU have never played WoW before, Some things just dont transfer over from EQ very well. I suggest you run a group of 5 SOMETHINGS(doesnt really matter what) to 60+ to get a feel for the game and how everything works. Mages would work best since you can then PL every other group with them, and you can still use them for DPS once everyone is 70.


You will not have to cycle through groups, you can use keyclone or multiclass and simple press 1 key for 25 toons...IE; hotkey 1 nukes for mages, heals for priests, ect. Its all about the Macro set ups and the addons, not so much switching between computers.

there is no difference between learning with 25 and learning with 5. either way he will have to adjust to a new game and learn to manage his setup.

lets read back through your first few posts on this forum and see how we can criticize you for asking questions. try to be a little less critical and offer something constructive.

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Originally Posted by 'Draz',index.php?page=Thread&postID=93348#post9334 8

Its like he doesnt even read what anyone is saying. Its VERY obvious YOU have never played WoW before, Some things just dont transfer over from EQ very well. I suggest you run a group of 5 SOMETHINGS(doesnt really matter what) to 60+ to get a feel for the game and how everything works. Mages would work best since you can then PL every other group with them, and you can still use them for DPS once everyone is 70.


You will not have to cycle through groups, you can use keyclone or multiclass and simple press 1 key for 25 toons...IE; hotkey 1 nukes for mages, heals for priests, ect. Its all about the Macro set ups and the addons, not so much switching between computers.

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Originally Posted by 'Jezebel',index.php?page=Thread&postID=93351#post9 3351

there is no difference between learning with 25 and learning with 5. either way he will have to adjust to a new game and learn to manage his setup.

lets read back through your first few posts on this forum and see how we can criticize you for asking questions. try to be a little less critical and offer something constructive.

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Originally Posted by 'Draz',index.php?page=Thread&postID=93348#post9334 8

Its like he doesnt even read what anyone is saying. Its VERY obvious YOU have never played WoW before, Some things just dont transfer over from EQ very well. I suggest you run a group of 5 SOMETHINGS(doesnt really matter what) to 60+ to get a feel for the game and how everything works. Mages would work best since you can then PL every other group with them, and you can still use them for DPS once everyone is 70.


You will not have to cycle through groups, you can use keyclone or multiclass and simple press 1 key for 25 toons...IE; hotkey 1 nukes for mages, heals for priests, ect. Its all about the Macro set ups and the addons, not so much switching between computers.

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LETS look back and see what I asked, considering this is now my 3rd post...and you be alittle less hypocritical

its your third post using that username. common practice is to ask all your newbie questions and then make another username once you know what you need to know, so you can pretend you knew it all and you were never a clueless newb, as we all were at some point. i also suggest you invest in a dictionary and look up the meaning of hypocrisy, since im quite sure it doesnt mean what you think it means.

Re: Sam..

a warrior will just be wasting a slot in your group makeup. running into melee range while multiboxing in general is a pain.. doing it while trying to manage 24 other characters would be a nightmare. plus it means a whole new set of abilities/macros to manage, and a lot more hotkeys. its just not worth it except when you need a tank for PvE (in which case, id recommend a pally rather than a warrior). if you set up your macro system well, it should only take one or two keypress'to switch your assist focus from one mage to another.. tabbing over or switching PC's, obviously, to directly run that client. Synergy or a KVM switch works great for switching your mouse/keyboard to a new client on another PC without having to actually move to another physical keyboard (as im sure you know already).

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Originally Posted by 'Draz',index.php?page=Thread&postID=93352#post9335 2

LETS look back and see what I asked, considering this is now my 3rd post...and you be alittle less hypocritical

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sam is going to redefine what boxing is.

ignore that he has no idea about how works at all, and corrects people when he claims he will "cycle."

one day soon you will see how he has the highest burst dps in all of WOW. Even though right now he's choosing the wrong class for it, and not listening to people about "macros that he'll never use."

He will kill a squirrel with 25 people all landing a nuke at the same time and ask if anyone has ever come close to such massive burst dps. He still thinks there are "zones" he can camp in games, because we all know how amazing PVP is in EQ, and expresses concerns that WoW doesn't cater to someone who can invest that much money into a game that would allow him to singlehandedly win a battleground.

He'll ignore the fact that most times when you're in a BG with a 5+ boxer, it is a loss because it is like running short 4 people even though those 5 can, more or less, gib at will.



See, his understanding about EQ is that they were a lot less lenient in separating boxers from their money and required inputting to each box, which is why cycling was necessary. WoW has redefined the term "character automation" and allows 1 keystroke to be split amongst as many unmonitored clients that you can handle. Imagine if you could do that in EQ sam? No more cycling! Gasp! WoW really has taken the skill out of MMORPGS! He's in for a real treat when he realizes how autofollow is used/not used in WoW because of the keystroke splitting! Mmm!

I can't wait to see how this turns out. People just don't care that he does his 24 boxing in a dead game on useless targets. Time to expand the audience. Take his posts here and multiply the unashamed ego, know-it-all nature by over 9,000. You are chatting with one of the greats, and he will destroy your mindset about boxing.



Even the post title "Thinking about 25 boxing..." Not 5. Not even 1. 25. Not "thinking about learning anything about wow before I post ridiculous assumptions about the game in my half-baked plans." Sam does not need defending. Clearly everyone who knows nothing about a game at all should make an advanced post about how he's planning on levelling 25 characters to max and playing them all at the same time.



Strap yourselves in. Sam has arrived.

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Originally Posted by 'Jezebel',index.php?page=Thread&postID=93353#post9 3353

its your third post using that username. common practice is to ask all your newbie questions and then make another username once you know what you need to know, so you can pretend you knew it all and you were never a clueless newb,

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And thats where ASS-U-ming gets you in trouble. I have never created an account here before. The mods can check the IPs if you wish. I have a pretty good grasp of the english language, other than spelling (seriously, who takes the time to spell correctly lol). And you are a hyprocrit for critizing me for telling Sam to learn about the game, when he even started asking questions in the wrong forum. This is the general forum btw.

*Ahem* According to the board rules, you should ask all questions in the correct forum. So why did you not correct him on this mistake, but yet take the time to make an asnine assumption about something you have no clue about? Hypocrit!

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Originally Posted by 'Sam DeathWalker',index.php?page=Thread&postID=93333#po st93333

Because my groups are on 5 different computers I have basically perfect autofollow. Of course I can only move one group at a time. So like my leader toon (shaman) will be on the main computer and the 4 followers will be on seperate computers. Autofollow has problems when the leader and follower are on the same computer. I think Ill have little problems with the hardware/control part (just ordered 2 more HP 2335 1920X1200 monitors, so I have 4 of them now and 2 that are 1650X1080 or whatever).

Ya keep it simple is the key for sure, I was reading about macros and scripts all last night and except for buffs I doubt i gonna hardly use them, I just going to target with warrior, then assist arcane barrage, cycle from group 1 to group 5 untill the target is dead. If not dead then do the same again, because only 3-4 mages will attack at one time I won't waste mana.

Lets say its 1Prest/1Shaman/3Mage per group for simple. Because cool down is 3 seconds Ill switch between group in 3/5ths sec each (I can do 3 switch in 2 seconds now)

Start: 3 mages hit
.6 seconds later 3 mages hit again
1.2 3 more
1.8 3 more
2.4 3 more
3.0 first 3 again after cool down.

If target is dead after say 9 mages then I just cycle to the first gorup again, target someone else and repreat. Basically I wont even use macros or scripts, at least for non healing offesive. Thats kinda why a warrior is needed for targeting, Once I lose my assist Im kinda hurting. On the other hand if they are targeting the warrior then they arnt attacking the cloths lol ...

So press one key to cycle between groups, and one key to cast arcane barrage. Then just alternate untill target is dead. Also same thing staggers the totems perfectly.

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This can be done in using KeyClone and the simple macros:

Key 0:
Shaman01_Group1: /castsequence Tremor Totem,,
Shaman01_Group2: /castsequence ,Tremor Totem,

Shaman01_Group3: /castsequence ,,Tremor Totem


Hit 0 every second, and you'll have a tremor totem pulsing every second to break fear.

Key1:
Mage01_Group1 to Mage03_Group1: /castsequence reset=target [target=focus] Arcane Missle,,,,

Mage01_Group1 to Mage03_Group2: /castsequence reset=target [target=focus] ,Arcane Missle,,,

Mage01_Group1 to Mage03_Group3: /castsequence reset=target [target=focus] ,,Arcane Missle,,

Mage01_Group1 to Mage03_Group4: /castsequence reset=target [target=focus] ,,,Arcane Missle,
Mage01_Group1 to Mage03_Group5: /castsequence reset=target [target=focus] Arcane Missle


You hit 1, Group 1 Mages cast Arcane Missile to the target of the focus (your tank).
The next time you hit 1, Group 2 Mages cast.
The next time you hit 3, Group 3 Mages cast.

If the target is dead, and your tank switches target, it starts again with Group 1 Mages shooting.

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Originally Posted by 'samfan',index.php?page=Thread&postID=93373#post93 373

sam is going to redefine what boxing is.

ignore that he has no idea about how works at all, and corrects people when he claims he will "cycle."

one day soon you will see how he has the highest burst dps in all of WOW. Even though right now he's choosing the wrong class for it, and not listening to people about "macros that he'll never use."

He will kill a squirrel with 25 people all landing a nuke at the same time and ask if anyone has ever come close to such massive burst dps. He still thinks there are "zones" he can camp in games, because we all know how amazing PVP is in EQ, and expresses concerns that WoW doesn't cater to someone who can invest that much money into a game that would allow him to singlehandedly win a battleground.

He'll ignore the fact that most times when you're in a BG with a 5+ boxer, it is a loss because it is like running short 4 people even though those 5 can, more or less, gib at will.



See, his understanding about EQ is that they were a lot less lenient in separating boxers from their money and required inputting to each box, which is why cycling was necessary. WoW has redefined the term "character automation" and allows 1 keystroke to be split amongst as many unmonitored clients that you can handle. Imagine if you could do that in EQ sam? No more cycling! Gasp! WoW really has taken the skill out of MMORPGS! He's in for a real treat when he realizes how autofollow is used/not used in WoW because of the keystroke splitting! Mmm!

I can't wait to see how this turns out. People just don't care that he does his 24 boxing in a dead game on useless targets. Time to expand the audience. Take his posts here and multiply the unashamed ego, know-it-all nature by over 9,000. You are chatting with one of the greats, and he will destroy your mindset about boxing.



Even the post title "Thinking about 25 boxing..." Not 5. Not even 1. 25. Not "thinking about learning anything about wow before I post ridiculous assumptions about the game in my half-baked plans." Sam does not need defending. Clearly everyone who knows nothing about a game at all should make an advanced post about how he's planning on levelling 25 characters to max and playing them all at the same time.



Strap yourselves in. Sam has arrived.

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So you're implying it might be a troll post.

Still, 25-boxing is a good discussion. Even if Sam does not go through his plans, the discussion of 25-box shows that it is doable, but for me, there's no game goals requiring it.
10-man at most for KZ just like how Nixi is doing it. Heck, Grull, a 25-man dungeon has been 7-manned before.

And from the various info on WotLK, 25-man contents will have a corresponding 10-man version.

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Originally Posted by 'Sanctume',index.php?page=Thread&postID=93379#post 93379

So you're implying it might be a troll post.

Still, 25-boxing is a good discussion. Even if Sam does not go through his plans, the discussion of 25-box shows that it is doable, but for me, there's no game goals requiring it.
10-man at most for KZ just like how Nixi is doing it. Heck, Grull, a 25-man dungeon has been 7-manned before.

And from the various info on WotLK, 25-man contents will have a corresponding 10-man version.

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No, it's not a troll post. Sam is genuine. He has lots of computers hanging from chains in his dungeon, weirs a loincloth / codpiece and brags about hookers and concert tickets. Look him up on the internet if you don't believe me.

I'm saying he is not really looking for discourse. He is looking to share a bit of his glory with you. He knows nothing about WoW, but I guarantee that soon enough any shred of "Sam the Beginner" will be a hazy memory while the infinite SAM DA MAN will reign supreme.

It takes a while of slogging through his references to EQ macros working in WoW to think that he really has that large of an ePeen, but you'll get the drift soon enough. Make way for Sam.



"Why would you bother?" quickly turns to "That's not really relevant." I kid you not, this forum will see a "Highest Burst DPS" thread in the near future, on some frivolous target, with the claims that noone else has even come close to it.

i see that the more popular boxing gets, the more people migrate over here from the wow forums. i suppose it was only a matter of time till the community here degraded to that level.

Never have and never will visit or even look at the WoW-forums. Please get off your high horse, if anyone seems to be a bnet tard, it is you.

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Originally Posted by 'Jezebel',index.php?page=Thread&postID=93386#post9 3386

i see that the more popular boxing gets, the more people migrate over here from the wow forums. i suppose it was only a matter of time till the community here degraded to that level.

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i wasnt speaking to you. which is why i didnt quote you. dont bother speaking to me again.

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Originally Posted by 'Draz',index.php?page=Thread&postID=93387#post9338 7

Never have and never will visit or even look at the WoW-forums. Please get off your high horse, if anyone seems to be a bnet tard, it is you.

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Originally Posted by 'Jezebel',index.php?page=Thread&postID=93386#post9 3386

i see that the more popular boxing gets, the more people migrate over here from the wow forums. i suppose it was only a matter of time till the community here degraded to that level.

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Is that like stating the obvious in order to sound masterful?

I have no idea of the rest of the community, but Sam Deathwalker is the quintessential boxer, and predates this forum and even WoW by quite a few years. So if your perceptions are limited to this thread, you're incorrect, since it has been posted on many forums that Sam has finally made the leap to WoW.

Even the June 30, 2007 thread from Xzin in Elitist Jerks (which is the first time I heard about this community) has posts about Sam:

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For those of you who may have missed it (be glad you did), Sam was active around 2003-2005ish on some of the popular EQ message boards of the time. He played on one of the PvP servers that EQ had (even though EQ's PvP was so broken I refused to play on a PvP server). He had a tendency to boast about his "accomplishments". As in challenge people to see who had the highest burst dps (uhh 6 casters vs 1 person?) or how many thousands of people he killed/owned whatever. I am all for being confident in your abilities but Sam took things a bit.... too far in my opinion. What really highlighted Sam's appearance in the early EQ PvP scene was his online photo gallery shots.

You see, he openly admitted to hiring hookers. He then intentionally posted pictures of said hookers to his online photo galleries. He would have them write on whiteboards about how long he could go for, etc. It was.... weird. I mean, personally if that is his thing then thats fine. Just.... keep it to yourself? Plus - the guy looked a bit.... unkempt? His outfits were a bit out there and combined with his computer setup.... things just got weird.

Then there was his physical setup. It looked like he raided Home Depot and hacked it together with chains and wood and bolts. He basically made a bed, and suspended his monitors in front of him. The idea made logical sense but keep in mind this was the early 2000s - so flat panels were EXPENSIVE. So he used CRTs. That weighed something like 30 lbs each. The whole thing together was just.... amazing. And amazingly weird. Perhaps if he had made it professionally, it would have looked pretty decent - but he just sorta hacked it together from what the pictures showed. Most other WoW setups I have seen have been far more professionally done.

Now, I may not be one to argue seeing as my setup is pretty massive. I mean honestly, I am getting ready to 10 box. But I don't feel the need to epeen war about it. Plus, my setup is professional and very well done. I intend to write about it as soon as I finish the last few parts.

So yeah - Sam was quite the character. Not sure if having him associated with multiboxing is a good thing or not though. I try to bring a level of professionalism to this hobby. To Sam..... I am not entirely sure what it was really nor do I know if he is even still playing EQ or not. If so, I sincerely hope he has figured out a way to control his characters in PvP better. He died a lot in EQ PvP from what I understood - although to his credit he was getting better at PvE from the last that I heard.

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So, I'm not entirely sure what the focus of your sweeping generalizations were, but you're catering to probably the most obnoxious not-a-troll-but-genuinely-insane person because you felt that somehow he validates your community's "achievements." In fact, most people I know think of boxing and SAM DA MAN as one in the same, just at a different degree. Never mind that someone already 23 boxed WoW (and could probably handle more since his setup was 23x2, 46 boxes). We're talking 25 here.



Behold, beware.

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Originally Posted by 'Nitro',index.php?page=Thread&postID=92087#post920 87

I dont know much about EQ but I do know plenty about wow and I'm surprised no one is setting sam straight on all this. You will not be aoe leveling in any way shape or form to an effective degree, you will not be honor grinding spawn points or anything of the sort. You have one option only and that is to level a single 5 man group at a time.

Sam, every idea you have posted in this thread leads me to believe you need to play a single toon, even if its only for a few weeks of hardcore and then you will have a better understanding of the possibilities of boxing in wow.

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QFT. Learn the game first before you decide how you are going to do everything. Also you said you are gonna be putting 5 chars per PC. What specs are they? You said you aren't going to use software, obviously you dont have a clue what we are talking about when we say "software" :P

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Originally Posted by 'Jezebel',index.php?page=Thread&postID=93388#post9 3388

i wasnt speaking to you. which is why i didnt quote you. dont bother speaking to me again.

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Originally Posted by 'Draz',index.php?page=Thread&postID=93387#post9338 7

Never have and never will visit or even look at the WoW-forums. Please get off your high horse, if anyone seems to be a bnet tard, it is you.

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You didn't quote anyone, so therefore you mustn't have been speaking to anyone?



Anyway, here is the audience you are defending:

http://www.samdeathwalker.com/images/BEST1.jpg http://www.samdeathwalker.com/images/samdaman.jpg http://www.samdeathwalker.com/images...-meandPhil.jpg http://www.samdeathwalker.com/images/BestMe.jpg

I'm surprised he decided to switch to WoW. What with the US property market being what it is.

Holy Crap that guy's my landlord. I thought he just wore the codpiece when he picked up rent.

http://img230.imageshack.us/img230/2919/93228232ft1.jpg

Gentlemen, good evening.

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Originally Posted by 'samfan',index.php?page=Thread&postID=93391#post93 391

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Originally Posted by 'Jezebel',index.php?page=Thread&postID=93386#post9 3386

i see that the more popular boxing gets, the more people migrate over here from the wow forums. i suppose it was only a matter of time till the community here degraded to that level.

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Is that like stating the obvious in order to sound masterful?

I have no idea of the rest of the community, but Sam Deathwalker is the quintessential boxer, and predates this forum and even WoW by quite a few years. So if your perceptions are limited to this thread, you're incorrect, since it has been posted on many forums that Sam has finally made the leap to WoW.

Even the June 30, 2007 thread from Xzin in Elitist Jerks (which is the first time I heard about this community) has posts about Sam:

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For those of you who may have missed it (be glad you did), Sam was active around 2003-2005ish on some of the popular EQ message boards of the time. He played on one of the PvP servers that EQ had (even though EQ's PvP was so broken I refused to play on a PvP server). He had a tendency to boast about his "accomplishments". As in challenge people to see who had the highest burst dps (uhh 6 casters vs 1 person?) or how many thousands of people he killed/owned whatever. I am all for being confident in your abilities but Sam took things a bit.... too far in my opinion. What really highlighted Sam's appearance in the early EQ PvP scene was his online photo gallery shots.

You see, he openly admitted to hiring hookers. He then intentionally posted pictures of said hookers to his online photo galleries. He would have them write on whiteboards about how long he could go for, etc. It was.... weird. I mean, personally if that is his thing then thats fine. Just.... keep it to yourself? Plus - the guy looked a bit.... unkempt? His outfits were a bit out there and combined with his computer setup.... things just got weird.

Then there was his physical setup. It looked like he raided Home Depot and hacked it together with chains and wood and bolts. He basically made a bed, and suspended his monitors in front of him. The idea made logical sense but keep in mind this was the early 2000s - so flat panels were EXPENSIVE. So he used CRTs. That weighed something like 30 lbs each. The whole thing together was just.... amazing. And amazingly weird. Perhaps if he had made it professionally, it would have looked pretty decent - but he just sorta hacked it together from what the pictures showed. Most other WoW setups I have seen have been far more professionally done.

Now, I may not be one to argue seeing as my setup is pretty massive. I mean honestly, I am getting ready to 10 box. But I don't feel the need to epeen war about it. Plus, my setup is professional and very well done. I intend to write about it as soon as I finish the last few parts.

So yeah - Sam was quite the character. Not sure if having him associated with multiboxing is a good thing or not though. I try to bring a level of professionalism to this hobby. To Sam..... I am not entirely sure what it was really nor do I know if he is even still playing EQ or not. If so, I sincerely hope he has figured out a way to control his characters in PvP better. He died a lot in EQ PvP from what I understood - although to his credit he was getting better at PvE from the last that I heard.

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So, I'm not entirely sure what the focus of your sweeping generalizations were, but you're catering to probably the most obnoxious not-a-troll-but-genuinely-insane person because you felt that somehow he validates your community's "achievements." In fact, most people I know think of boxing and SAM DA MAN as one in the same, just at a different degree. Never mind that someone already 23 boxed WoW (and could probably handle more since his setup was 23x2, 46 boxes). We're talking 25 here.



Behold, beware.

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I was 6 boxing EQ back when Vallon Zek first launched in Aug99... I played EQ up untill nov2005 when I moved over to WoW at the time I was 18 boxing, and never heard of Sam untill some one linked a post on the wow forums late last year. I've seen his stuff and it looks like he knew what he was doing for EQ.

EQ and WoW are totally different when it comes to game mechanics and multi-boxing. 5 computers with 5 accounts on each will work but you will need a mix of hardware / software, or just all software. There is no way of sending multiple commands to multiple clients on 1 machine without a software like keyclone/etc... If you are using no software what so ever you would have TONS of wires everywhere and 25 individual machines, reading the post I've seen you have great theorycrafting, but you have an EQ mindset.

Experience the game a little bit and go from there I don't doubt you when you say you are going to 25 box, but start doing it and then post. So we can help / comment on what you're doing instead of going off what you are "thinking" of doing. Because the plan sounds great but it will change drastically when you really set it up. I personally side with the people that say make 5 paladins and get them to 70 and power lvl that way, or the people that say level 1 char to 70 so you understand the game, but whatever works.

What I love is that some folks are talking like the dual-boxing.com community has no idea who Sam Deathwalker is... he's been a member since near the begining, he's posted here and there about EQ and boxing in general, and has contributed a fair amount to the community.

So he's an odd one, so he's proud he's an odd one, who gives a FSCK.

The man wants to try WoW, he's got some ideas that will work, others that wont, and some that simply can't be answered because no ones tried it. I'd wager that Xzin got a lot of similar crap when he first mentioned the concept, and I'm sure the guy from Team Wizzy did as well... I've had my own friends tell me you can't do that, it won't work... then they watch me do it... and behold, sometimes they are right and I die horribly and painfully... other times, victory is mine.

All said and done, I'd really rather deal with someone like Sam who knows who they are and is comfortable enough to be proud of it than someone who's entire existance in the forums is to badmouth someone else.

I think a LOT of people in this thread need to read:
Community Guidelines - Read Before Posting

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Originally Posted by zanthor',index.php?page=Thread&postID=93423#post93 423]What I love is that some folks are talking like the dual-boxing.com community has no idea who Sam Deathwalker is... he's been a member since near the begining, he's posted here and there about EQ and boxing in general, and has contributed a fair amount to the community.

So he's an odd one, so he's proud he's an odd one, who gives a FSCK.

The man wants to try WoW, he's got some ideas that will work, others that wont, and some that simply can't be answered because no ones tried it. I'd wager that Xzin got a lot of similar crap when he first mentioned the concept, and I'm sure the guy from Team Wizzy did as well... I've had my own friends tell me you can't do that, it won't work... then they watch me do it... and behold, sometimes they are right and I die horribly and painfully... other times, victory is mine.

All said and done, I'd really rather deal with someone like Sam who knows who they are and is comfortable enough to be proud of it than someone who's entire existance in the forums is to badmouth someone else.

I think a LOT of people in this thread need to read:
[url='http://www.dual-boxing.com/forums/index.php?page=Thread&postID=14540

Community Guidelines - Read Before Posting[/url]

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..But... its my job :-(

Well posting is how to see if my ideas are stupid or not. One thing for 100 percent sure is that if you come up with something that isn't smart it will be pointed out to you asap, thats the purpose of forums. Initially my plan was to go 25 mages ... now, based upon what people have said in this thread, I am leaning towards 1 warrior, 5 priests, 5 shaman and 14 mages. If I would have started 3 days ago I would have made 5 mages, if I start today I make a warrior, priest, shaman and 2 mages. Tahts a big difference. Those who want to share their experience can, those who don't want to are not being forced to do so. I was once a noob in EQ (didn't even know which server I was on lol ... ), yet you go to the warrior forum now, or maybe the wizard forum a few years ago, or without doubt ingame on Zek and I am answering questions right and left and arguing over this or that all the time. As can be seen my knowledge of WoW is very limited, but it is in fact a simpler game then EQ, and I am reading 6 hours a day right now during my learning period.

Ya I dont make any bones about it the ONLY reason I am moving to a simpler cartoony looking game is so that more people will hear about (62 people play wow for every one person that plays EQ) me, and reacat with positive or negitive comments. And Ya Ill be killing a moss snake and bragging about evey step I make (although on SamDeathWalker.com mostly). LoL look at the Fantastic Four Cartoon in this thread:

http://www.fohguild.org/forums/retar...00-dps-16.html

Don't worry this is the most polite forum in the world compared to where I been, the EQ sk forum is really rough to newcomers.

Ok back to points at hand.

I was not planing to use software, such as keyclone, to broadcast to all clients on a single machine. I know that keyclone is clean and fair but Im not even going to learn a system that is software based, because it is possible that at some point someone at blizzard will conclude that its 3rd party software, even though now that is not the case. Yes cycle though takes time BUT I have a 3 second cool down to deal with also. Yes, someone could run out of range, but they are taking 3 mage worth of damage every .6 seconds, thats kinda fast really. I dont switch keyboards, I can actually cycle though all my guys in 2 seconds in eq. That .5 seconds a cycle. Because of the cool down time, if I only use arcane barrage, over 12 seconds or whatever if I cycle or use keyclone Ill be doing about the same amount of damage.

I can see your point, if you are using keyclone, and in your position I would also, and you can press one key and go to all clients at the same time, then my system seems poor by comparision, but in my case I will have so much money and time invested that I can't take any chanch that my playstyle method will be compromised in the future. I mean they already prohibit delays in keyboard or game pad macros, thats kinda showing restrictions right there. Also if you think you are getting reported a lot, I think you can imagine the number of times GM's will be looking very closely at me ... Also from this thread you can see there is going to be endless ongoing argument http://www.warhammeralliance.com/for...=26308&page=24. Few if any will complain about non software based alt tabing between clients.

Well more and more its slowly becomeing clear that I might need a 10 man group, and a tank. It seems with a warrior, Ill have the pve covered: Tank healing and dps. (and I guess Mage is CC also), and Ill have 10 and 5 man groups also covered. I would never consider the tank for dps, and in pvp I have no intention of getting the warrior to anyones range. I am sure a full Protection Warrior is the highest HP and ability to take hits in the game, and warrior can be undead.

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"You hit 1, Group 1 Mages cast Arcane Missile to the target of the focus (your tank).
The next time you hit 1, Group 2 Mages cast.
The next time you hit 3, Group 3 Mages cast."

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Thats not really much faster then I am now, I have a finger on the switch group key and a finger on the nuke key, I never move off those keys. Doing the same thing 1000 times a day for 5 years Im fast enough now that I can cycle the two keys just about as fast I can press one repeatedly. In fact think about it for a second: When you repeat a single key you have to go up and down. While you are going up on a key you can similtaionsly be going down on the other key. So actually you can cycle 2 keys as fast as you can reapeate one ....

I am assuming that I can switch clients without delay, I hope that to be the case lol ...

Also I ahve a 6th computer I am not sure what to do with ...

Ok the rabbit fur in that pic started to come off from the back, its supposed to be tight not hanging down. And in the green photo thats Phil from Pantera shaking my hand.

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"Why would you bother?" quickly turns to "That's not really relevant." I kid you not, this forum will see a "Highest Burst DPS" thread in the near future, on some frivolous target, with the claims that noone else has even come close to it.

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There's a vid out there with a shaman critting for over 10k, twice in the same vid clip. Mages could not do that. But for whoever did it, the name did not stick.

i think one of the other problems aoe leveling with mages is finding enough mobs. I know when my best friend and I level 1 mage each it was hard to find mobs that (1) lots of them and (2) were not casters. The places we did find were small and had to wait on spawns. Not many in BC either, some fun BE's in Netherstorm at 70 though.

Ya I kinda going south on the aoe stuffs, I am hopeing that I can find a instant spawner mob someplaces lol ...

if you leveled up a group of 4 or 5 ZOLO boosting toons you could actually ZOLO up all 4/5 groups simultaneously if you will be logging in 25 at once :D

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Originally Posted by 'Dorffo',index.php?page=Thread&postID=93509#post93 509

if you leveled up a group of 4 or 5 ZOLO boosting toons you could actually ZOLO up all 4/5 groups simultaneously if you will be logging in 25 at once

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If I were to do 25 accounts, THIS would be the way to do it. Level 5 Paladins at once *yes I know but its considered your overhead*. Get them to 70, make your other alts. Get to 10 then boost to 35. Then to 58 in ST. From there pick your poison.

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Originally Posted by 'Nixi',index.php?page=Thread&postID=93312#post9331 2

25 paladins holy shocking? Consecration? what rogue could stand in 25 consecrations? how long? 25 priest holy novas? (fear is still an issue with these classes)
Maybe 10 Shamans + some other class.

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I would agree very much to this. I have tried 4x holy nuke specced priets, and they deal quite a punch. Not enough to be efficiant in pvp with 5 priests, but It will definitivly be insane with 25 holy nova specced priests.

I have a little video I made from my holy nova specced priests here:
http://ts.fh-guild.com/div/botanica2.avi

You can see that they are doing decent damage even though they are crap geared.

With priests you would have the mosts utility you would need.

- Aoe (not very strong individually, but if you have 25 of them it wont matter, you would kill someone anyway)
- Aoe healing WHILE dpsing. 5x holy nova heal for quite a bit.
- Button of instant death (25x shadow word:death, sequence them into 2-3 "bunches" so you can insta kill more ofthen. (it have cooldown) 8-10 shadow word deaths should be enough to kill someone I would think)
- Automated healing (every priest prayer of mending on theirself)
- Fear immunity (fearward,will of the forsaken, and last but not least: if everyone is a priest, you can set up a round-robin dispell macro. So each priest will dispell the next in line. you will never get fear on every toon, so there will always be someone to dispell those that get feared.
- unlimited supply on aoe-fears :)

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Then there was his physical setup. It looked like he raided Home Depot and hacked it together with chains and wood and bolts. He basically made a bed, and suspended his monitors in front of him.

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Don't underestimate the power of pipes!

http://img66.imageshack.us/img66/6094/6computersdk3.jpg

This guys opinion of wolk from eletist jerks forum.

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07/23/08, 3:57 AM #49 (permalink)
resuemae
Banned


nude
Gnome Warlock


<nomnomnom>
Alexstrasza Paladins will remain the most CC'able healer, and unless I am missing something obvious(?). They will be even more CC'able with blessing(hand) of sacrafice being nerfed.

Shamans will be switching roles with them, however, spending the most time out in the open casting. But, as things stand now, grounding and tremor totems will pretty much overcome mosts buffs paladins get relative to shamans by a pretty large margin, at least versus CC heavy teams.

Predicting the following, but will have to see how it ends up in game:

Best healers while being focused:
Priest > Druid > Paladin > Shaman

Best while left alone to cast:
Shaman > Paladin > Druid > Priest

Best while being actively CC'ed:
Druid > Shaman > Priest > Paladin

Mana conservation:
Paladin > Druid > Shaman > Priest

Offensive ability while healing spec:
Priest> Shaman > Druid > Paladin

Just my opinions by what things look like on paper

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If a shaman can out heal a priest while not being attacked, and has almost the offensive ability of the priest (and is obviously more durable), why would I not go no priests and all shamans?

Chain heal is looking just to powerfull for boxer as it seeks out the one that needs healing the most. 8 or so shaman healing a tank as the target with the chains healing the raid seems so powerfull in pve or pvp if the tank is focus of enemy attack. Multiple chain heals from different shaman eliminates any interupt problems. Also it seems if ONLY chain heals are going to be used then 37 or so points is restro is all thats needed. Leaves lots of points for elsewhere.

Lets say 8 shaman, 1 war, 16 mages .... With all the shaman spamming Chain Heals, it matters not who is the target the heals will heal them ...



This is today from a guy in beta:

Yesterday, 3:57 AM #274 (permalink)
Ana
Von Kaiser


Analla
Night Elf Priest


<Renaissance>
Proudmoore Ok I was able to test some of the totems tonight w/ a fellow shaman.

-Healing Stream and Mana Spring both stack if the shaman are in the same party, and neither stack if they are in different parties in the same raid (i.e. in raid you only get one healing and one mana regardless of how many are dropped)
-Mana Tide is limited to the group only.
-Strength of Earth is also limited to group only (not sure if this is a bug or not, although I submitted it as a bug just in case).
-GoA and WF are both raid wide and both buffs can appear on one person. So I guess if an enhancement shaman needed to heal they'd have some spell haste.
-Flametongue is raid wide, but doesn't stack with more then one Flametongue.

EL weapon ticks for about 267 per second when it procs , but no passive +heal amount is currently shown on the character panel. The hot does scale w/ gear. 267 was the amount w/ about 1200 spellpower.

http://elitistjerks.com/f31/t27030-r...iscussion/p12/