Printable View
First, hi Solette, we (I) miss you.Quote:
Originally Posted by iThirdAge Solette
Second: Guns don't take too much micro if your skills are at such a level where you kill most of the DPS before it really applies so you don't have to worry about tank levels. For example, Pain's super-thin-tanked NMs. Post-ban though I'd say guns do require more micro than Sentries.
I ran basically the same fit as pain pre-ban. Post ban it's far too hard to keep them alive while trying to micromanage the guns. I have to use two logis and a bit stiffer of a tank mostly because I cannot rely on having free reign of NMC and OTAs like before.Quote:
Originally Posted by bugme143
Micromanagement isn't as bad as some people would think as you only have to target a select few NPCs per account. The amount you have to target depends on your fit and the site.
Back in the early days of me running in windowed mode I gave my NMs a try. The video I posted was my first REAL attempt at running that setup. I didn't have tachs as they were 30 hops away :(
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9pYOv7T6bug
Despite being the first real attempt as such making many mistakes I still finished the OTA in 7:47 which would be about a 8:50 tick with a 50 au warp.
I'm positive I can do much better now.
yeah, good to be back bugme143, i just had some wardecs, so i wasnt able to leave my wh for some weeks :P
i will be back to incursions in a couple days tough, and i think i will be doing some changes to my fleet, im going to add blasters (or rails, depending on how both perform) to the domis, not sure if i will be able to 1 shot frigs with only 5 domis, so im thinking of resubbing 3 of my olf acconts back, wich would put me at a total of 11 acconts, 2 basis, 1 loki and 8 domis.
Any opinions?
I was running 6x Domi, 2x Nestor, 1x Vindicator, 1x Eos with 250mm rails on the Domis. With the drones from 6x Domis I was able to 1 shot frigates I could track as they approached. Still undecided on whether the Loki or the Vindicator were better, my times were roughly the same but I think the Loki was simpler to control given the massive web range. The Vindi was just over 20km web range w/ faction webs + boosts. I was averaging around ~9-10 minutes including 30-50 AU warps. Not terrible, not stellar.
Pre-garde nerf I was able to one shot frigates with four domis. Now I'm not so sure.
Due to the overkill of 7 domi's worth of gardes I've been experimenting with a modified setup. The domi method is definitely the laziest way to go though.
Hey guys, I haven't been very active, but I've been reading weekly to stay in touch, since mutliboxing in eve is something I still care a ton about.
The input ban hit me way harder than I would like to admit, I lost almost all interest in eve and all trust I had into ccp (Yeah, I really belived into ccp once). Wouldn't have been for RnK, I would have stopped, for sure.
Judging from the outside, the storm seems to have calmed down and I m thinking of running incursions again. ToS style (Still love your vids), no third party program.
I basically have 3 qestions that I love to get some advice from you guys.
- Since I havent been active farming incursions, I have lost the contact to the community and how they feel about multiboxers, you know, are there just local chat attacks, false flag campaigns or nothing of the sort and everybody is nice to eachother?
- Is there still an active eve channel about incursion multiboxing? I know oatmeal ofc, but there was another channel, where lots of the pre ban multiboxers would chat, but the owner closed it.
- Do you guys think, its still important to record your runs in order to protect yourself against bans? Or any other measurment needed to protect oneself against ccp fail-bail-ban-befor-ask system.
Well since I have posted quite a few videos I get more of a pass from haters it seems. People tend to like that I'm not pushing the boundaries when I box. "You just get it on with" as I've been told.
I imagine that if more people are boxing incursions attitudes might revert back to the old ways.
I'm recording samples of my runs still but I lack space to record them all. CCP_Peligro is absolutely convinced that people who run like me having nothing to fear. I know I've been reported quite a lot just based on the occasional hater spewing in incursion chat.
yeah, see, thats something I m also worried about, that when more and more multiboxers come back, it might spoil it for all.
I have no idea how many boxers run incursions and I hope it wont affect it to mutch when I take my Cycling Guns 01-10 out again.
I might record one or two and just put that into the bio of my chars, so ppl see what and how I'm doing it.
As for the channels, oatmeal and isboxers lounge are active, dual-boxing.com and ISBoxer have no ppl in it, so inactive. Those are the channels I found so far.
Well, from my personal experience people hate on me a lot, not sure if its just bad luck tough, but i usually get report treats a lot of times when im running.
I use eve-o preview, but im also considering the option of switching to windowed...
i would have to agree with ToS when he says it will become like the old days if lot of boxers come back tough
How do you manage to 'split' all of the eve windows in the windows bar, ToS?
i mean like, instead of them stacking on top of each other, each character gets a specific window in the bar
Right-click in the empty space of the taskbar next to the buttons -> Properties -> Taskbar tab -> Taskbar Appearance: Taskbar buttons: "Never combine."Quote:
Originally Posted by iThirdAge Solette
"HAX! HE'S MODIFYING THE CLIENT AND GAINING AN UNFAIR ADVANTAGE OVER OTHER PLAYERS! PERMABAN HIM!" - CorebloodbrothersQuote:
Originally Posted by Ughmahedhurtz
Quote:
Originally Posted by bugme143
Attachment 1462
Thats goint to help a lot, ty
I really should record me doing things with my windows and having a 16-monitor setup (ill have to borrow a few monitors), and other stuff that is allowed but looks "fishy", and upload it to youtube just to make cbb have an aneurysm when he learns that everything I did was allowed and legal. But he'll still foam at the mouth cuz "muh isboxers!"Quote:
Originally Posted by Ughmahedhurtz
I will be running incursions agian in a months time in either a windowed mode setup like you ToS or using EVE-O
Can anyone recommend a good program to use for the video capture? completely new at that
yeah, i would also like to start recording some runs, but i have no idea how to record multiple screens at once, and i havent found a lot of info on that
OBS (https://obsproject.com/) works really well for me for capturing to local files, and can capture a sub-window of the desktop (or a portion of a window) rather than either the entire desktop or a single window. It also spits out encoded files, so it's not sucking up terabytes of disk space.
I used OBS for the three screen capture videos. Takes quite a bit of tweaking and playing around to get it to work properly.
I still need to tweak my OBS setup more as it's hitting the systems harder then it should.
@ Tool: Do you often get a straight up volley in OTAs and NMCs? (if so how many domis does it take with garde setup)? I am trying to figure out if the gardes kill too few right off the bat for them to be worth much in those. It seems like they would not be that good in ncos.
I don't really understand what you're asking.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacobsalt
Every kill is one volley that's why I can only kill one ship every 4 seconds (cycle time for sentries and ALL sentries fire regardless of the target). I haven't had much time to experiment post garde nerf. Pre-garde nerf I could pop niarjas consistently with 3 domis but sometimes Tamas would barely survive. Pre-change 4 domis was good enough to guarantee one shots on all the 9k EHP frigates when properly tackled. The renyns are a bit of a pain and to a lesser extent so are schmaels. I'm currently running with 5 domis for the frigates to ensure even at range things pop in one salvo. I could probably get away with 4 domis but that increases my control requirements which I'm not interested in doing right now.
My current setup is loki DDD, 5 domis (frigate duty), 2 vindis with anti-em screen and t2 burst aerator, two nestors.
I run the shield rigs on the vindicators so I can run with a local HQ fleet when I need a break from boxing and just want to chill but still make isk. That was one of the things I missed once I switched to a loki as without the paladin I had no ship that could run in a more conventional fleet.
Currently the domis are easily handling the frigates and there's not much I can do there to improve times other than run two lokis which isn't going to be very efficient. I do spend quite a bit of time waiting for cruisers to die. SO I decided to try to improve times on the cruiser and larger ships. The deltole in OTAs in particular takes FOREVER to die. The vindis are good for about 1600 dps right now. Unfortunately I never got t2 large blasters on those two characters so they are 18 days away. With void I should be well over 1800 dps each. With "only" 1600 dps they chew through the cruisers and deltole very well. I even find time to sick the vindis on frigates in NCOs. With their .121 tracking and with two webs they can each handle a frigate quickly. It's just they have a long lock time on frigates so I have to do a little mental work to keep the dps spread properly :P
I'll get some videos up once the burn thing is over with and I can more safely run.
EDIT : Biggest downside is slower warp speed and the ammo usage sucks.. Switching to two vindicators increased my fleet sunk cost by 1.2b too. So I'm at about 7.3b isk for the entire fleet now.
To fix the warp speed problem I'll probably cut the t2 hybrid burst to a t1 and suffer the DPS loss for a t2 warp speed rig. I lose about 170 dps doing that with the t1 fit. The t2 fit will lose about 175 dps. It's acceptable for me but I'm not sure what the HQ fleets will say in response to the warp speed rig. Considering some of the shit fits I've seen in those fleets I shouldn't have a real issue.
im just curious why you have chosen to go with armor. i am doing shield domis and its working good, the only problem i get is that in the nco i cant pop some of the frigates in the 4 sec timer, the niarjas and tamas die in 4 secs tough
Because I can always pop any frigate every 4 seconds while also hitting stuff at spawn range in OTAs and NMCs. I one shot niarjas easily at 80 KM.Quote:
Originally Posted by iThirdAge Solette
Each nestor is worth 2x scimitars in repping power while having massively larger buffers in tank..
Meaning when someone tries to gank me they have a much harder time.
EDIT : Would you care to share your fit so that I might better compare on my end :P
my ships are super overtanked, but the pilots dont perfect shield skills. i have 72/70/73/78 resists with this
for domis im using this:
[Dominix, incursions]
Damage Control II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Omnidirectional Tracking Enhancer II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Omnidirectional Tracking Enhancer II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Omnidirectional Tracking Link II
Pithum C-Type EM Ward Amplifier
Large Shield Extender II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Drone Link Augmentor II
Drone Link Augmentor II
Large Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I
Large Core Defense Field Extender I
Large Core Defense Field Extender I
Federation Navy Garde x5
Optimal Range Script x1
i then use 1 loki with 3 navy webs, 2 faction TP's and some guns. for tank i use only 1 dcu and rigs
the basis are standart fitted, nothing fancy there
i like this fleet because i can run it relaxed, just need to assign drones, then play with loki and basis :P. the downside of it is that it has low dps, so in ota's it is a pain to kill the deltolte, and if i get contested there is a big possibility i will lose unless i am already deeep into it
obviously your fleet has a lot more dps since you use 2 nestors and 2 vindis :P
still need to add some guns, still considering if its worth it tough, seems like they dont do that good of a dps
to be honest i dont really worry about getting ganked/losing ships, this fleet is cheap and has paid for itself something like 5 times over already
as always suggestions and constructive criticism are always welcome
NOTE: please bare in mind i dont use a booster, only perfect passive-booster for the shield buffer
Since we are getting a slight nerf (the dda changes coming in aegis) are we still good with the ability to kill one every 4 seconds? Id imagine there is a fair bit of wait when we have that much volley, so the net loss of about 7% of the dps increase from 4ddas (old 62ish, new 55 ish percent drone dmg) should not hurt too badly.
I like the above points (about the nestors and autokilling in the armor fleet) but wonder if the main problem third's shield fleet has is in fact having to overtank because of lacking a booster?
i dont have the numbers in front of me, but i think that if i had a booster i would be able to drop 1 invuln (even if i had to pimp out the other one), that way i would have 1 extra omni tracking link
EDIT: but yeah, booster would definetly help, even if its just for the oh-shit moments
Your drones have very similar range as mine but my garde IIs with my setup has .089 tracking where as with your setup they have .055 tracking according to EFT.
That's a huge difference in tracking when dealing with all those tiny signature frigates.
Your domi setup actually has more omni EHP without boosts than what mine has WITH boosts. I'm not terribly surprised by that as my setup skimps some on the omni tank in order to be more gank resistant and faster warp (2x warp speed rigs 1x thermal rig). Torps provide the kinetic/explosive side of damage and my boosts include signature reduction which means the torps aren't applying full damage to the domis.
Boosted my domis are 99,627 omni ehp
Resist profile for armor is 76/75/68/56 with 340m sig.
My nestors bring 381 dps each to the fleet along with their ridiculous over repping ability. So basically the two nestors are like having another domi using gardes when dpsing the cruisers and up. I forgot to mention that earlier. I'm going to try assigning the nestor's heavy drones to the vindicators so I can apply dps more effectively as the vindicators are targeting cruisers and large as primary.
The nerf won't effect my ability to one shot the frigates as four domis worth of garde IIs alpha for 11,408 damage. I use five domis so my garde II alpha is 14260 in theory. I overkill because I always assume less then perfect damage application. I'm pretty confident I'll still be able to one shot the frigates post change. I do feel sadness at the overall nerf to DPS though.
i might have more resists, but you have 2 nestor :P
i assume you use 7 reps on the nestor? that means you have twice ad much repping power than me
Indeed 7 reps each is the source of the ridiculous repping capability. They can also lock up to 11 targets.Quote:
Originally Posted by iThirdAge Solette
i see... but one of the disadvantages of getting the nestors is that the fleet price goes up by a lot :s
i am also really interested to see how you manage to control the loki and 2 vindis at the same time without isboxer. any plans on making a video?
however, to get the same stats as he does on those drones, youd have to pimp every domi. his fit is dirt cheap and super effective.Quote:
Originally Posted by iThirdAge Solette
The middle ground would be to use two cruiser armor logi instead.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacobsalt
Certain characters in my fleet tend to draw aggro at a higher percentage than the rest. With nestors I can use one nestor to put one rep each on those characters so I have time to respond. A lot of the time I pre-set reps and then focus exclusively on the dps side of things. That's why in some of my videos a domi will get somewhat low in armor. That's when aggro shifted unexpectedly while I'm concentrating on dps related stuff. The nestors allow me to be far more aggressive on the dps side of things. Which means lower site times :)
Assigning the nestor's heavy drones to one of the vindi pilot has also helped to increase overall dps. I'm now spiking at over 3k dps in OTAs. Last night I had an OTA tick of under 6 minutes 30 seconds. Since I am still experimenting with controlling the setup my site times have been swinging all over. The vindis are fully capable of taking out frigates individually in NCOs. I just need to get the splitting of dps done better. It's harder then I expected to keep from accidentally killing one of the vindi targets with the primary fleet DPS.
I used to use 2x 5/1 Guardians on my fleet. One of the bonuses of Nestors is they can field their own sentries to add to the DPS.Quote:
Originally Posted by iThirdAge Solette
Got some good testing in today and I've decided to fail the two vindis.
Pros
More dps spread in NCOs allows for quicker completion (each vindi can handle a frigate well).
I can assign heavy drones from the nestors to the vindi allowing for effectively a second drone bunny.
More overall dps on Deltole in OTA.
When I got it working right overall dps was higher but only slightly faster times.
Cons
Awful range means I was wasting a lot of ammo at times
Aggro has been absolutely stupid. Every single OTA I did with the vindicators the NIarjas would instantly switch to the loki regardless of the entry order or if they were already being shot. For the first time ever I was perma jammed at the start for the first wave in four OTAs in a row. That's with a loki that has 32 sig strength with two of those starts only being 2 niarjas. I had similiar issues last night with jams and niarjas changing targets. Soon as I switched back to domis the niarjas acted like normal and were no problem.
Micromanagement requirements means that I end up doing less dps at some points.
DPS is nerfed because of a warp speed rig requirement to keep up with my fleet. Without the t2 warp speed rig my fleet is noticeably slower arriving on sites.
Overall it's too much effort for too little return.
thats exactly what i mean, when you have more stuff to worry about your dps will be lower than what it looked like on paper due to not being able to manage everythingQuote:
Originally Posted by Tool of Society
my fleet costs in total about 3.5B, the fleet ToS uses would cost ~6B (just an estimate) for the hulls only.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacobsalt
EDIT: but obviously, armor is better than shields in this situation
There was a noticeable improvement in dps in NCOs. If the niarjas weren't behaving so differently there would be a noticeable overall increase in OTA dps. The few times I was able to get past the first wave without being jammed to hell my OTA ticks were under 6 min 30 seconds. Probably because my fleet dps was spiking higher on deltoles. NMCs didn't see any real improvement as I'm killing almost all the stuff outside the range of the blasters.
Null ammo might of helped the situation but I found the frustrations of the radically different behavior of the niarja AI in OTAs to cause the whole thing to be not worth it.
Median prices
Astarte booster 470m
venture ore 6.9m Prospect is 29.5m
Loki DDD 772m
domi 291m x7
nestor 2.150b x2 I use heavy hull/armor II bots and gardes x10
Total cost today without looking for deals for less then 7.6b
Now over the years of me doing this I've only lost one nestor and that's despite gank attempts and server disconnects. The one nestor I lost was last year and it was because I was training newbros and I was super tired. I was about to call the fleet but I decided "oh just one more site" and I warped the nestor to the wrong site.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tool of Society
So you are simply overkilling and not worrying about the 4 second hard floor on sentries? Im considering using a slightly different fit for a good chunk of gecko and acolyte domis to even up the mix. I figured that if I had one vindy with heavies and acos assigned I would realize better consistency. I also figured that I would default to null for that very reason. What I wonder is, would having the 11th person on grid in hisec be that bad or would it allow for more dps and faster sites (assuming: 1xloki with 5x sentry domi, 2x nestor (assigned to vindicator) 1x vindicator, 2x gecko/aco domis?
Yeah I'm back to overkilling right now.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacobsalt
I'm thinking of training one vindi into t2 guns. It'll be 16 days to do so. I was running praetors on the nestors and assigning them to the vindi. The vindi itself was using 5 garde IIs that I assigned to the loki because manually controlling the drones was tedious.
With null I could see a setup where I assign heavies from the nestors and some geckos/acos from one or two domis to a vindi. I liked the two vindis for NCOs because each of them were easily able to handle an eystur solo so I burned through the last wave quickly. The web range limit and the limited gun range were not a factor there and I noticed quicker NCO times as a result.
Since I use an ore runner I have 11 characters on grid for NMC turn ins. It's a slight increase in overall pay. I've been thinking of an ore dropper that can also contribute dps while having a good enough tank. That theory crafting was put off as I figured out other aspects of the fleet.
i was actually considering switching a domi for a vindi, not sure how its going to perform since i dont use off grid booster. any opinions?
im just not sure since the vindi would be used, in part, for its webs. since i wont have the web boosting i would only have aout 14km, so im just not sure...
even in the OTA's, on wich the vindi would purely focus on the deltolte, im not sure if it would work
I found that even with the warfare link and with fed stasis webs that I had range issues on the vindi webs. My booster pilot is perfect with all leadership at V (even fleet command and command ships are V). She has the federation navy implant for armored and skirmish links and the astarte has bonuses for both. So my interdiction maneuvers link is giving the max bonus possible.Quote:
Originally Posted by iThirdAge Solette
My initial value of 6b isk was when I originally bought everything for the fleet. My second figure I posted in here is for what the absolute max you would pay if you didn't bother waiting or looking for deals at other trade hubs.