Hacked then Banned

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Originally Posted by Manben

...but I created the problem with getting a keylogger on my system.

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Exactly why it's not free. All systems are vulnerable to some extent and from varying perspectives. The case of "account hacking" is client-side. Something that can be prevented without an authenticator if you just follow strict measures of safe computing. Authenticator is not mandatory as it is only an extra layer of security for your account. Think extended warranty not limited warranty. Limited warranty is when they restore your account.

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Originally Posted by Manben

. I deal with a clientel that has credit lines with my company, if someone unauthorized comes in and purchases on thier account we are liabel as a company. We cannot hide behind the "We are a victim of our own success" line that people love to pull out whenever they dont want to handle a problem.

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Restoring your account is like shouldering fraudulent costs. Does your company provide an authenticator-type or biometric devices to add protection and prevent CC fraud? For an additional cost?

I'm not trying to argue Manben statements. Really, I just don't want to have to deal with work anymore today so... Yeah. :D Really, this is kinda like the sparkly pony issue. Only not about a pony anymore..? :D

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Originally Posted by Manben

Zenga gets my point of not owning one Its the principle. I am now paying for my principles with a small hassle.
If I dont get anything back will I be upset? I would probably be a little upset, but I created the problem with getting a keylogger on my system.
Should Blizzard be concerned if I am happy? Coming from someone who manages a 9 million dollar a year retail establishment, yes they should. I can easily decide to cancel my 75 bucks a month plus they lose out on possible upgrades to Cataclysim and many more expansions to come.

I deal with a clientel that has credit lines with my company, if someone unauthorized comes in and purchases on thier account we are liabel as a company. We cannot hide behind the "We are a victim of our own success" line that people love to pull out whenever they dont want to handle a problem.

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Really you're blaming the wrong people. You're blaming Blizzard for people trying to hack their game which they have no control over. The authenticator was made for you as an extra security measure is all. It costs Blizzard tons of time and money undoing what the hackers do to people like you.

While I won't say Blizz doesn't milk people out of money- the authenticator is one thing I don't feel they try and use to make money from. That's why they're like 7 bucks with free shipping,

My authenticator is insurance against the hackers in case I screw up. No matter how careful I am (and I am paranoid careful) there's always that chance I go to a disquised website such as yourself. When you get a keylogger it really isn't Blizzard's fault now is it?! You're the one who chose to goto that website and were tricked by thieves.

Principles are something I can really understand- but think your principles are misplaced when it comes to this whole authenticator business.

As for slowing you down while logging in... Doesn't slow me down really and I log in multiple times a day as well. I even manually input the 5 codes it doesn't bug me or take more than a couple of mins. If you're in that big of a hurry then there are ways to enter your authenticator code just once for all 5 clients. It's in one of the threads here on dual boxing.

At this point im just arguing for the fun of it :).

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My authenticator is insurance against the hackers in case I screw up.

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Why should I pay for insurance? Dont I already pay them 15 bucks a month? I should expect some sort of system that protects my account.

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I even manually input the 5 codes it doesn't bug me or take more than a couple of mins

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3 minutes a day say on average 2-3 logins a days say 200 average days played a year.

3*3*200= 1800mins a year/60 = 30 hours a year of login time That is being generous most will have much more.

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Does your company provide an authenticator-type or biometric devices to add protection and prevent CC fraud?

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Yes we do they are called employees :) . I do not charge my customers extra to protect thier accounts it is assumed as part of the service we provide.

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Originally Posted by jinkobi

Really you're blaming the wrong people. You're blaming Blizzard for people trying to hack their game which they have no control over.

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He said: "I created the problem with getting a keylogger on my system".

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Originally Posted by jinkobi

It costs Blizzard tons of time and money undoing what the hackers do to people like you.

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Ain't that part of the service & support any decent company should offer to it's clients? To your analogy, if you enter your bankcard into a 'compromised' ATM or when fraude happens with your creditcard, the bank shouldn't do anything. "You entered your card into the atm, so it's your responsibility". Don't think so. You will expect your bank to refund you and undo any damage done. Moreover it's in the law in several countries.

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Originally Posted by jinkobi

While I won't say Blizz doesn't milk people out of money- the authenticator is one thing I don't feel they try and use to make money from. That's why they're like 7 bucks with free shipping,

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Agreed to a certain extend. I bought my games back in november. 5 bc's, and 5x cataclysms and 5 gamecards to start with. Like 500 euro? At no point upon purchasing or upon creating my account i was told i'd need an authenticator to play the game in a safe way. The fact that you are 'forced' to use it while it's only available by using a credit card or by owning a fancy phone (in the bigger part of the 'civilized world') is what bothers the people, not actually using it.

Simple solution?
- ship any new box, be it vanilla, bc or wotl with an authenticator included
- make auth. available at any place where they sell wow products (i've seen the wow mouse in plenty of stores, but never an authenticator), so people can actually buy it with cash

I had my WoW account hacked before they announce the merger with B.Net accounts. Crazy thing was this. I was 2 boxing at the time. Main account I've had since Vanilla release, and my second account I only had for a few months. They had both been inactive for 5-6 months. I get an email from blizz saying my 2nd account had its password changed, and attempt at changing the email. I think wtf? Well apparently some one logged in, activated the WotLK 10 day trial, and then did absolutely nothing. Vendered nothing, left the couple hundred gold, didn't delete it or make and alts or anything.

That was last year at some point. To this day, I don't know how they got the password. At the time it wasn't anything dictionary, related to my login, or simple. I hadn't been on any WoW related websites in forever, I run a Mac and didn't have a Windows machine at the time. And I'm a very well educated web user. Haven't had AV on and windows machine I ran in the past 6-7 years. Don't even run anti spyware or malware, and don't get that crap either.

I thought it was pretty strange. Changed the passwords, and as soon as BNet merging and the Authenticators were announced, I took both options.

I will argue for the sake of arguing as well then.

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Originally Posted by Manben

3 minutes a day say on average 2-3 logins a days say 200 average days played a year.

3*3*200= 1800mins a year/60 = 30 hours a year of login time That is being generous most will have much more.

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Separate your Battle.Net accounts for ease of logging in. Oh wait...that's another inconvenience like using an authenticator.

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Originally Posted by Manben

I do not charge my customers extra to protect thier accounts it is assumed as part of the service we provide.

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Why should Blizzard follow your company's policy?

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Originally Posted by zenga

Ain't that part of the service & support any decent company should offer to it's clients? To your analogy, if you enter your bankcard into a 'compromised' ATM or when fraude happens with your creditcard, the bank shouldn't do anything. "You entered your card into the atm, so it's your responsibility". Don't think so. You will expect your bank to refund you and undo any damage done. Moreover it's in the law in several countries.

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What about car insurance? I don't have to have full coverage insurance...it's my choice. If I don't pay extra for the full coverage then I shouldn't expect to get reimbursed for anything that's not covered. Blizzard never stated "you're 100% covered if you get yourself hacked."

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Originally Posted by Manben

Yes we do they are called employees :) . I do not charge my customers extra to protect thier accounts it is assumed as part of the service we provide.

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That's not preventive.. biometrics and authenticators prevent fraudulent activities.. That's why it's a layer of security. Now if you have gnomes sniffing malicious packets off the network for free, then maybe. But assuming the charges isn't security. Blizzard at least is trying to prevent it, though not free.. :D

Oh wait, time to go level the palalaladins..

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Originally Posted by Fenril

I will argue for the sake of arguing as well then.
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What about car insurance? I don't have to have full coverage insurance...it's my choice. If I don't pay extra for the full coverage then I shouldn't expect to get reimbursed for anything that's not covered. Blizzard never stated "you're 100% covered if you get yourself hacked."

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The example i gave, was a reaction to the quote to give an example that this is part of a service a company offers. Insurance is a whole other thing. If blizzard was to offer a premium service with a guarantee your statement was correct. Now they offer nothing but an extra (paid) lock that should enhance your security but without any warranty. Dealing with hacked accounts(and solving them) is part of their service (the way i see/feel it at least), just as developing an authenticator is part of their service.

I'm very well aware that using examples to prove us right has double standards. For some products/service we lay the responsibility to deal with our shit in the hands of the provider, and for others we take action ourselves (insurance, ..). However I work in IT for over a decade as a free lancer, and haven't come across 1 single company where account troubles are not considered as part of their service. So I dare to say it's more or less a standard in this industry.

I find this topic very interesting and kind of an eye opener for myself (as in trying to see the whole picture rather than my own pov). Way better than any discussion i've come across where it usually tend to end up in a flame ware.

Authenticator, blah blah blah, money, blah blah blah, blizzard, blah blah blah hacked, blah blah blah, outrage, etc, etc

Am I doing it right?

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Originally Posted by lacitpo

Authenticator, blah blah blah, money, blah blah blah, blizzard, blah blah blah hacked, blah blah blah, outrage, etc, etc

Am I doing it right?

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As far as I can tell, Yes, You are doing it right.