Will DK + 4 Shamans be more or less viable than Pally + 4 Shamans?

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Originally Posted by 'offive',index.php?page=Thread&postID=137721#post1 37721

The phase question should be answered by someone who got multiple beta invites. I only got one :(

But I think they should all be on the same page as the phases seem to be tied to quests.

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When you phase, you indeed phase into the same place as the rest of your party (and some outsiders, too).

That being said, many of the DK quests require that you take over various vehicles/objects. /follow doesn't work in those cases, so be prepared to do some fancy maneuvering with your arrow keys. ;) As long as you're within range of the others, you usually share credit for quests if only one DK completes it in your party. Usually.

DK Tanks do benefit from melee totems.
DK Tanks do benefit from spell power totems.
DK Tanks can provide 20% melee haste (windfury is 16%) to party/raid (this is a talent, 26pts Frost)
DK Tanks can provide 155 str/agil to party/raid @ lvl 75, where Srength of Earth totem matches it at lvl 80 (this is a spell all specs get I believe)

My secondary toon is an enhantment shaman and yes, I easily dual box it currently with a paladin. I'd likely swap my totems around though.. right now it's usually Windfury/Flametongue/Strength/Mana to Wrath/Flametongue/Strength or Stoneskin/Health. Yeah, i'm a bit crazy running around with two melee types, but that's mainly for leveling and it's not as hard as you may think when it's only 2 toons. Once dual-spec comes out, I'll likely have a restro spec setup for the shaman so I can just nab some dps friends for some instance running. Then, when raiding, just run with my DK.

Worst case, I have my paladin I leveled up with the shaman as a backup. :D

I ran two 80 heroics today in a regular group on beta pre-made (azjor and strat) and it was not super hard but not super easy. I don't see how you'd do it without a decently geared tank and a good healer, our 28k prot warr died a number of times in az and we wiped a bunch of times in strat. There isn't that much trash but they tend to come in timerd waves and the bosses are multi-phase with "gimmicks", like don't stand here, DPS this add while boss is away, etc. The less micromanaging you have to do on the tank the better, since there is quite a bit of movement and quick group heals required.

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Originally Posted by 'sedory',index.php?page=Thread&postID=137843#post1 37843

DK Tanks do benefit from melee totems.
DK Tanks do benefit from spell power totems.
DK Tanks can provide 20% melee haste (windfury is 16%) to party/raid (this is a talent, 26pts Frost)
DK Tanks can provide 155 str/agil to party/raid @ lvl 75, where Srength of Earth totem matches it at lvl 80 (this is a spell all specs get I believe)

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Keeping in mind that the melee haste from DK's probably doesn't stack with WF and gives nothing to ele shammies. Neither would Str/Agi to an ele shammy.

The totems that benefit DKs would therefore be:
[s]windfury[/s] (doesn't stack with Imp Icy Talons), woa, goa, [s]soe[/s] (doesn't stack with Horn of Winter), healing stream, stoneskin, tremor, grounding, tow...

The benefits DK can give to ele shammies would therefore be:
*crickets* Anti-Magic bubble?


The totems that benefit pallies would be:
windfury, woa, goa, soe, healing stream, mana spring, mana tide (if resto), stoneskin, tremor, grounding, tow

The benefits pallies could give would be:
kings or wisdom, judgement of light/wis, imp devo (think treeform)/conc aura
And additionally, if respeccing holy: healing (for pvp)
And additionally, if respeccing ret: [s]Heart of the Crusader[/s] (crit talent -- doesn't stack with ToW), Sanctified Retribution (2% damage), Divine Storm (heals), Swift Retribution (haste), Judgements of the Wise (replenishment)

(Buff stacking according to http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/th...36795321&sid=1 )

And that's not even counting button synergy (holy shield + lightning bolt = spam buttons; avenger's shield + chain lightning = 3-person targeted aoe)


I'm not belittling DK tanks -- like I said, I think they'll be as viable as any other tank. But there's most definitely a REASON why pallies are better -- they're the only tank who tanks with a blue mana bar, and they're the only tank who can give elemental shamans CASTER buffs back. Hybrids match well with hybrids, but Pallies are the only one that gives any significant gain to casters. Bear tanks come close (at least they have motw), but a bear that's tanking can't exactly shift out while tanking to innervate -- particularly since shammies aren't spirit-based casters anyway. Bears will finally now benefit from WF totem, which is an upgrade.

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Originally Posted by 'Vyndree',index.php?page=Thread&postID=137871#post 137871

The benefits DK can give to ele shammies would therefore be:
*crickets* Anti-Magic bubble?

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I know you're not "trying" to belittle DKs, but you are omitting one very important point. Infact, the whole point of including a DK in a Shaman group imo.

Ebon Plaguebringer
http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=51161

I played a premade DK + 4 elemental shaman a few weeks ago. It is really nice. Unholy DK gets so much aggro to start that the shamans never pulled aggro. I would start by putting down Death and Decay, pull a mob with Deathgrip, apply diseases, by this time all mobs are on you so you can use Pestilence and Unholy Blight. From there you just use white damage, maybe a few Deathcoils.

D&D + Pestilence + UB = tons of aoe threat.

I plan to replace my paladin with an unholy DK. I will power level the DK to 68 with shaman following out of group for heals/pvp protection.

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Originally Posted by 'Hor',index.php?page=Thread&postID=137881#post1378 81

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 'Vyndree',index.php?page=Thread&postID=137871#post 137871

The benefits DK can give to ele shammies would therefore be:
*crickets* Anti-Magic bubble?

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I know you're not "trying" to belittle DKs, but you are omitting one very important point. Infact, the whole point of including a DK in a Shaman group imo.

Ebon Plaguebringer
http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=51161

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Must've missed that. My apologies. You basically get ONE CoE debuff (if specced), plus anti-magic bubble (if specced).

Different situations, apples/oranges etc etc... :(

Army of the Dead, MB version.

DK boxing will be made to work. :D

@Vyndree - Yes, I mentioned both Windfury and Strength totems can be replaced by DK abilities (and they are slightly better), which then lets you choose a different Air and Earth totem. Granted, most run quad ele shamans, but I just plan on the DK and a single shaman.. enhancement is not too bad like that while not drudging instances.