WOLK and shaman team future (totems)

[quote='Leyuna',index.php?page=Thread&postID=108241 #post108241]i love being able to hit higher lvl mobs without so many resist[/quote]

Shaman [url='http://www.wowwiki.com/Spell_hit#Increasing_spell_hit']already get a uber high +hit rate from talents alone[/url], and much of the mail elemental gear is littered with hit as well (which is pretty dumb, imo). Shaman (especially draenei) have the highest +spellhit available IN THE GAME -- and that's not even COUNTING it stacking.

For example:
Elemental Precision (which you always take for PvE for threat) - 6% (I see the +hit was nerfed to 3% but threat component increased)
Nature's Guidance - 3% (none in WoTLK)

One single pre-WoTLK ToW: 3%

In Burning Crusade:
40/0/21 Ele Shaman +hit: 9%
41/0/20 Ele Shaman +hit: 12%
41/0/20 Ele Shaman stacked x4: 21%
41/0/20 Ele Shaman stacked x5: 24%
(Add 1% for draenei)

Add

In WoTLK:
Single Ele shaman (min level for Elem Precision): 3%
(Add 1% for draenei)

+hit required to hit a mob 3 levels above you (i.e. RAID) 99% of the time: 14%
+hit required to hit a mob 2 levels above you 99% of the time: 5%
+hit required to hit a mob 1 level above you 99% of the time: 3%


So sure, we have a raid nerf here. But, at the same time, you will now *gasp!* make USE of all that +hit rating on your gear (that is, if you plan on fighting mobs more than 1 level higher than you and can't kill it with over 1% miss -- which is the lowest you can possibly get). Even as a lowbie you can find gear with +hit as low as level 17 and starting zone quests. Sure, why would you EVER take it over straight +damage when you're LEVELING, but if your argument was honestly that you intended to regularly kill mobs 2+ levels above you and missing once or twice is deal-breaking....

And to put things into perspective... How much +hit do you need as a level 60 to get 1% +hit? 8 +hit rating = 1% hit. That's all.

Im lost a bit... ok ToW dosnt stack, that just means the offensive abilities is a bit less... no big deal for me anyway.

Ok grounding didnt stack in the first place so no change.



Now what about the tremor totem, anti fear is critical in pvp. So what has changed there? Previously they were on more then one timer (?), but now they are not? I mean you don't need more then one anyway, well I suppose having them go off more often the every 2 seconds would be nice but... So anyway you still can't be feared for more then 2 seconds right? And as pointed out if you put more then one up and one gets destroyed you are still good.

HAHA, I blame this nerf on Sam. Blizzard saw raid wide stacking of 25 x ToW and visions of Arthas being one-shotted prompted immediate action.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by 'Sam DeathWalker',index.php?page=Thread&postID=108567#p ost108567

well I suppose having them go off more often the every 2 seconds would be nice but... So anyway you still can't be feared for more then 2 seconds right? And as pointed out if you put more then one up and one gets destroyed you are still good.

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The thing is that the tremor totem has a range where is can break fear. If you are out side the range when it ticks then you are still feared. Fear can last for more then 2 seconds, i was feared yesterday and it lasted 6/7 seconds. What can happen is lets say a warrior is just rushed you and is going to fear you, right before he fears your totem ticks so now you have 2 seconds before it ticks again. The warrior fears and you go flying every where. You run out side the totem range when it ticks again, now after 6/7 seconds your toons are all over the place. What you do is stagger your totems so the most that you can be feared for is .5 seconds, which worse case just make your guys face different directions (which all you do is hit the follow button then they face the same way).

Ok that kinda clears it up. Some extra micro managment, big deal. Ok so basically none is going to reroll their shaman over these so called nerfs. And considering Thunderstorm, seems a small price to pay. Hey thunderstrom isnt on one timer is it? And hope that warstomp isn't on the same timer ... well I have to look allt hat up I guess.

I don't see the changes spelling doom for Shaman groups in any way. Yeah I would be worried about about grounding totems not stacking. Though as already brought up technically I don't see how you could "unstack" them. But even if Blizzard changed it where only one could be out at a time, all you are going to have to do is do a round robin drop on them instead of just dropping 5 at one time. Not really that big of deal.

Heck even if Blizzard completely did away with grounding totems period you still have 5 x Earth Shock which is still one of, if not the best interupts in the game. So I really don't think we should be QQing so much about ToW not stacking.

The ones that cry about ToW not stacking are the same ones that most likely would cry if suddenly Moonkin Auras started stacking or Trueshot Aura for example. Let's face it like Moonkin and Trueshot we can't really think honestly that Blizzard ever intended them to stack. Blues have already confirmed that this was not intentional.

And look at it this way, you have even more reason now to drop 4 Searing Totems in your rotation, or even move to a 4 Elem Sha / 1 Bal Druid makeup.

The only nerf that I could see that would really hurt boxing shaman is making it so we couldn't have staggard Tremor Totems. Even so there are plenty of other mb group makeups that have to live with fearbombs relying only on trinkets or fear ward (not that fear ward is really worth the hassle with it's cooldown).

Bottom line is like V said. We aren't really losing too much from the stacking nerf when you add in new talents such as Elemental Oath. As she caculated you are looking at a potential of 3% damage increase right? Still sounds like a buff to me.

We just have to think outside the box.

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Originally Posted by 'mlwhitt',index.php?page=Thread&postID=108608#post 108608

But even if Blizzard changed it where only one could be out at a time, all you are going to have to do is do a round robin drop on them instead of just dropping 5 at one time. Not really that big of deal.

Heck even if Blizzard completely did away with grounding totems period you still have 5 x Earth Shock which is still one of, if not the best interupts in the game.

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I like dropping all 5 grounding totems before a pull with casters in a group, having to put them on round robin will add gcd cycles and unwelcome totem micromanagement.

Many times the casters are out of range of shocks, so that means you have to be more careful when you are in agro range of other groups in order to get in range to shock, or you have to backtrack to range pull the casters so you can get them up into shock range and not pull another group. As it is, I would just heal throught the damage and range them down as it is easier then repositioning to try to get shocks in. I like the convenience of not having to do that as it is now, changing that by unstacking grounding totems will be an annoying change.

We will get what we get and learn to deal with it, or do something else. I'm not going to be too concerned about anything until we see the final product.

I'm hoping for the best out of it but preparing for the worst. I have two full 5 box teams on stonemaul at the moment, and am making 2 more.. I new mage set (I stupidly chose troll on the first one), and a Druid set. I may revive my lock group also, if the new stuff coming looks good. God I love the referel system... Buy some new cheap accounts, transfer over 70's, and begin leveling at warp speed. Sure it costs a bit, but the time savings is huge, and you can level tons of characters in the 90 days, and save up the level grants for a later class if you like. Though I need to dump the tow in favor of NS soon. I love it for instances, but I'm getting owned hard in arena due to not having my instant cast death bolt.

I don't mind tow not stacking. It is a bummer but it will be fine by me.

I also love to play multiple shammy for totem synergy and stacking. The synergy can still be there but losing some of the stacking will be a sad day for my fun at least. I really like the stacking of hs totems.

I am a lot more concerned with possible no stacking on tremor and grounding. Those seemed like two combos that were the bread and butter of shammy mojo and losing them would be a big hit. I am not saying they couldn't be played around or dealt with. Not being able to stack grounding and tremor does seem like a boxing nerf. I know it will also hit all those who have multi shammy in group... but i bet that is mostly boxing.

Using a spread out macro and tremors? How does that strike people for ups and downs and viability? I have never tried it yet. Fearing boxing groups is the main attack against them and it is a huge attack if not defended against (imo).

Well if Blizzard is stopping Tremor and Grounding stacking to help offset problems with QQs about Shaman boxing I could kind of understand why they are going this route. That being said I don't think they are doing it just as a play against boxing. It is just that as boxers we understand how important (not vital luckily) that stacking of Tremor and Grounding totems are. Another thing that I think may lend itself to showing that Blizzard rather us to limit grounding totems in favor of Earth Shock is the fact that they are throwing us a bone to improve ES usage by increasing range (See Storm, Earth and Fire talent).

I do feel in someways that a nerf of Tremor totem is somewhat justified in order to offset so much QQ by the rest of the population. We all know the number one defense against a decent multibox team is a fearbomb. As it is right now Shaman are one of the hardest groups to fear bomb thanks to TT. If they were to limit TT usability solo players would stand more of a chance to get around the so called multibox advantage of focus fire.

I may be rambling here but even though I don't think they are purposely nerfing the built-in shaman multibox advantage they may see a way to nerf some of the so called over powerness of a multiboxed shaman team.

Either way I believe that Shaman will continue to be the number one chose of boxers because of all the other advantages like Ankh, shield equip, mail armor, and overall totem synergy.

The biggest things that I see happening to Shaman multibox teams in the future is:

1) Limiting the ability to avoid fear bomb by limiting TT stacking.
2) Increase the need for a tank to be mixed in with a shaman group due to some lose of synergy between stacking and kiting ability.
3) changes with the way we play. While we complain about the nerfs think about stuff like Thunderstorm and such. We are gaining that, hex and many other advantages we don't yet fully understand.