I would be ok with thatQuote:
Originally Posted by JohnGabriel
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I would be ok with thatQuote:
Originally Posted by JohnGabriel
As a multiboxer .... yes some will tell me where to go but :
I feel it shouldn't even be allowed in PvP period , it gives you a edge no matter how you look at it.I played Daoc for many years and I can tell you when you run a proper assist train you're godly in many ways.And that's what Isboxer does is just that , you target,assist and fire off abilities faster then anyone yes I know if you hit a proper set up group blah blah but most of the time that is rare.And if you hit a zerg it's just part of the game
I feel if multiboxers aren't careful more and more games with start banning it because of this especially in PvP games.I think pve is one thing it really effects no ones game play unless you're killing off quest mobs like crazy or something ..... but I feel gaming companies are looking more into this , this is all just a opinion but I am kinda stating what I am seeing transpire over time now.
I would say the 1% of multiboxers in the gaming would cause more companies resources checking into false botting/afking reports then any other thing in a game period.
I'm so glad I quit WOW and moved to EVE Online.
itw does not work like follow so they can not really stop it they do they have to axe it everywhere, to change ctm the same thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnGabriel
there best bet would be nuke mounts and pets we use. (that they already done with mr.soultrader in bg's)
the only other thing would be to stop itw/ctm working like it does. but it goes to how deep coded it in the core a lot of bots been using this system for years and nothing happen as of yet.
Well, the "upside" to using the Druid's travel form is that they can't just toggle it on/off like follow on a per zone basis. Because it would take a lot of coding effort to change, they'll have to make a policy statement instead of just trying to neuter what we're capable of doing.
@Hohoz
An assist train of multiboxed toons is better at killing than the same number of solo players who are in voice comms, but certainly not better at surviving. In order to be efficient at multiboxing, we have to simplify many choices so that we're not overwhelmed.
https://twitter.com/holinka/status/517519631607537665
Don't spam, but trying to get a simple yes/no as to whether multiboxing in Ashran violates the ToS.
The only time multiboxing in PvP works is like Mosg2 stated. You simplify everything and overload as much burst potential as possible to one shot your way to victory. You do that or you put some serious numbers in your favor and do pointless things like hang around vendors and blow up people in green starter gear. Either way its an unsupported way to play the game that feels and is bottom feeding at a premium. It makes little sense.
You'll never be competitive in a thinking match with 2 / 3 / 5 / 10 humans on the other side of the equation either.
I think the rationale for multiboxing PvP in an MMO starts with getting harassed by a couple guys in the world. Then you think man, if I had 2 or 3 more accounts I would have owned those guys. Then next time they see you, they bring a 5 man team. The arms race mentality goes like that.
Once I stopped multiboxing WoW I oddly started to enjoy it more. Yes, I still ran into those griefers out in the world while soloing but I'm no longer inclined to renew any additional subs because it will be a short-lived satisfaction. I got my 9/9 golds done in like 3 days, got my garry achievement and started to gear up a single toon WAY faster. It just feels like I'm doing a lot less screwing around with setup and more socializing / more progress.
As a multiboxer who went back as far as EQ / MQ my days of mutiboxing are almost certainly over. If it wasn't the overly complicated routines needed for WoW it was the fact that I was paying 5 times as much for half the progress most were making on a single toon. It just didn't add up.
PS: I don't think they will ever remove IWT / CTM as it would raise a serious stink regarding accessibility for handicapped people.
there some replays to the twitter. its sounds really aimed at us now.
Quote:
Anthony Anderson @_verisimilidude 4h4 hours ago @holinka @JenniferCally Still don't understand why it's a problem--Same thing as a premade group. Are you saying you don't like premades?
Quote:Quote:
Anthony Anderson @_verisimilidude 2h1 hour ago @holinka @JenniferCally How so? Focused DPS via assisting, but less survivability. Is multiboxing a ToS violation in Ashran?
so any pvp as a boxer then = going to get into shit am reading it. or am going to make life really fucking hard for you.Quote:
@_verisimilidude @JenniferCally There is a social value added to the game when 15 people get together to play.
I'm Verisimilidude there. I'm gonna' follow this up until we get a definitive answer.
ya sad panda for sure. I can not see them saying NO you can not go there at all as the conquest vendors are there. and like i said if because 5/10/100 players killing one player there, what happens if we do it in the normal world. its the same thing. (say timeless island)Quote:
Originally Posted by Mosg2
Infarct its worse as that's ganking and the player will get a lot less help to take down a boxer, when in ashran they can team up and nuke us like they did in bg's many times.
5 boxing isn't an issue. it is the player that brings in 20, 30, 40 that it becomes ridiculous. I would even say 10 boxing gives the boxer an advantage at the start of an encounter with the near instant targeting we have, but as it goes on and larger groups of players take on a boxer we are at a disadvantage. So how do they prevent the massive boxing groups? Get rid of follow to start. Unfortunately that just impacts any size group so we have to come up with other ways to move around. All legitimate ways and I can't see that being taken away without some game altering ramifications for everyone. Of course they could just remove following from any raid group and leave it for party groups. Maybe we can at least steer them that way. It is not all doom and gloom, its just in specific PvP Areas, we still have the whole world to battle it out.
u guys understand ever since holinka was promoted to be the pvp designer boxers got screwed. its his fault mainly. it all started in mop. he doesnt have the balls to say it so he just ignores us. tiny actually got alot of twitter msgs from him when he made oq. but i dont know much about what was said.
the cause of multiboxers down fall
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/14730503255#1
lots of hate not helping.Quote:
Originally Posted by harvan
we use workrounds and hope we don`t get banned or the null the items or change the game to stop it working like it does. IF they do ban then fight the ban, as they can not say its because you was in ashran. if they say you was killing a player then all world pvp would = in this ban. using tools to bug the game will be what they could/would use.
Or though i only know one player that got banned from AV using soul trader on ten accounts, to my understaning it was banned from expoloring the limit of 5 players per BG party as i know of players solo that got banned for the 3 days around the same time (solo playing)
i was doing a lot of bg's with my shammys and nerver got banned nothing even was talking to a blizzard gm when i was in a BG with all 5 accounts.
And i know players on my server that put in tickets and reported me for doing it, they did say to me that they talked to a gm about my going to bg's as boxer that is not allowed anymore enjoy the ban. (funny did not read that in the tos i said.) 1 week later i talked to "this" player and they said you was right your not braking any rules. infact we talk a lot now not a bad guy after they get to know you. just so much hate.
"I am not happy about the changes to Ashran and
not allowing /follow. I would like to cancel my WoD preorder.
I can see why that the /follow command does not work in battlegrounds, but Ashran is not only a battleground. It is an essential part of the game that is housing the Conquest vendors, quests, and other parts of the game. If it was an instanced battleground, that was not intergal to the game I would be keeping this account.
But these changes are game breaking as a multiboxer, and it is not the way to fix things.
Suggestions:
- Disable /follow in a raid, and allow it in a party. (In BG areas. eg. Wintergrasp, Tol Borad, etc)
- Relocate essential vendors/quest/NPCs to an area that /follow will work.
Or simply, reinstate /follow in places that are not a battleground.
For shame."
I know it sucks, but clearly I'm missing something. I thought this was just another BG similiar to Wintergrasp -- I HAVE to go here for questing/conquest rewards?
I mostly stay away from expansion stuff and only peak in on a few bits that may influence my money making, clearly I need to read into this more :/
zzzz
its more like a wg before the changes to raid group etc and queing, ashran is no groups crz and kinda does have a que system if needed but not seen it go on beta much.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kayley
im going to tell u know idk why that person got banned but i was using the soul-trager all the time in bgs up until they suddenly removed it and i never got banned. know i use the brew pug and still no ban. and that forum thread no body is looking at the real point holinka is mixing his emotions with work and that is illegal. prepared killed him in ashran on beta and he was like i just killed a f***in dev lol.and i bet we have killed him plenty of times in bgs and wpvpQuote:
Originally Posted by ebony
Have u guys ever thought about it? all this has happened since holinka started aspvp designer.
That's gonna break PVE raids, right?Quote:
Originally Posted by Vociferate
the soul-trager was nerver removed because off boxers. YouTube/Google what players was doing with it in bg's.Quote:
Originally Posted by harvan
i know it was bc of pple in rbg using the lag thing.Quote:
Originally Posted by ebony
People mix their emotions with work every day, there is nothing illegal about that. At most, it's unprofessional.Quote:
Originally Posted by harvan
There's a lot of speculation in your statement. I may disagree with Holinka and think he gets his multiboxing information from trolls, but you're making it sound like he's running around like some clichéd PvP basement-dweller, throwing hissies and declaring new rules like the King of Siam and the rest of Blizzard is just like "Ok, whatever." I very highly doubt that's the case and treating the situation like that by using Holinka and Prepared as the only scapegoats doesn't make it better.
Changes have been made before that had at least a side-eye in our direction, admitted or not, {commas, castrandom, map pinging, BG Queueing, non-participation and win trading rules} so it's not like Holinka showed up and suddenly we went from some golden age where we were sacred cows to Blizzard right to the slaughter on his say-so.
Blizzard's intolerance has grown proportional to multiboxing's sense of entitlement. I know people hate that argument, but there are multiboxers out there who do it to be godmode. They do it to be obnoxious and disruptive, they do it because Blizzard isn't going to do squat about it *waves an 8 year old blue post around like an invincibility shield* and if they do, who cares? Prepared may be the posterchild for anti-boxing sentiment, but you only need two accounts to be "just another example of *** multiboxers."
We aren't caught in the crossfire of some personal grudge match between Holinka and Prepared. We've been throwing straws on the camel's back for as long as people have realized we were there.
I meant in regards to being an instanced PvP area. I'll edit for clarity.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ughmahedhurtz
Quote:
Originally Posted by Khatovar
I think that was very well said, and I would like to reiterate that point as well, Blizzard does run changes through a gauntlet of sorts before they make it live. Sometimes it's not a very difficult (or thought out one) as in /follow is used by bots...
But at the end of the day, what we do can easily be construed as against the rules. Most of the loud voices on the forums are the people that cannot break 1300 in arenas with a full set of Prideful. They are the ones that feel belittled because they are not winning. They want to be the roflstomping, graveyard camping douchebags. But we take that away from them. Everyone know of you knows, that if we go against another group of equal numbers, we are at the disadvantage.
We need to show that we are good for this game, and doing that will not be throwing out insults on the forums, spreading the flames, and acting with knee jerk responses. As a small community, we need to show that we are not all like the assholes in pug BG's berating new players, and partaking in asshattery.
My $.02
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mosg2
Same here just canceled my 5 stating because of the removal of follow.
I just wanna say this is a completely moronic change, and hurts only multiboxers. Any bot worth its salt is completely unaffected by /follow being removed in battleground and ashran, because they can programmatically follow someone by just clicking underneath them.
This is a kick in shins to multiboxers, with a steel toed boot.
Yea well the BG's are still flooded with bots removal of /follow really did a tiny dint in anything but a huge dint for us multiboxers I say they also did it as people would complain about us in bgs. I guess the only way to have fun is do arena but you gotta be fully geared to even do anything. Last exp I got full geared from doing dungeons guess I will have to do the same this exp.
Its still not as fun as it was running around in bgs full geared and destroying people while helping the team out. I guess we dont help newbies out much since they removed follow anyway.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Meathead
They probably had multiboxers in their crosshairs the entire time perhaps not realizing it.
When players report, they usually go for something that looks out of the ordinary. Like 4+ toons following behind a single toon. So they report it. Blizzard investigates and can't know for certain if it's a player or a bot. So they just look at the 4+ on /follow and declare it the problem. It's the one thing they can do. They can't read your memory dump. They can't look at your process list to come to a determination. They can't even see if anything is periodically sniffing at their memory address.
Unfortunately good bots don't use follow. An upside for Blizzard is that because they are so often so well designed, hardly anyone reports them if the person running it has any common sense.
That is how we got where we are today. Multiboxers bear the brunt of the bot scare because they're a more obvious 'hack'.
They never once said it was to stop all "bots" they said it was to stop a few simple bots on follow or afk players. (they even said you should not be following in pvp.) That was more of less freeware. They understand we needed it but they can live without us being there, saying as always your not doing anything wrong but we don't support you and stuff like fun for the boxer true but not fun for the other player on the other side (this is probs just PR for devs would look silly if they started sticking up for us then it look like the $$$$$.). As of yet no boxer has got banned for going in bg's but one 10 boxer at this time players was getting banned for using av pemade or o-que getting round the 5 per group in bg's. so can not say for sure this was from that. noway to find out.Quote:
Originally Posted by MadMilitia
Few months ago there was a blue post on the blizzard forums saying it does not sound like a bot but a mutiboxer this was after follow got axed.
Am not saying blizzard are in the right or wrong removing follow but you need to look at out of the box from there point of view or the other players we upset everyday.
They removed follow the same day they added the soul-trader back to ashran am sure the devs are not silly they know we use pets like this. But as always we start to make hell there then they remove it. i could not see many ten+ boxers trying to use that pet it would get Massey very fast five is evil with it. I could be wrong and infect they just massed up.
There was a point that the Soul-trader didn't work in Ashran, Ebony?
Yep it did not work when follow worked. The day follow got removed soul-trader came back. (this was true for mass ress as well and that works now.)Quote:
Originally Posted by Mosg2
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...614_004446.jpg
u should try using it in bgs. bc if that works then they reenabled it bc of the server improvments for 6.0.2.Quote:
Originally Posted by ebony
Quote:
Originally Posted by harvan
tryed it in bg its still does not work.
Do you get kill credit and loot for everyone while in a raid group in Ashran, or only in 5-man groups, Ebony?
raids work in ashran and you get honor kills the items from killing players used to buy ashran stuff.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mosg2
2nd u don't need to be in a raid just tag a boss to get loot from it. infact any npcs u need to kill work like this. for bag loot.
So are Brew Pup and Soul Trader still working in BGs or Ashran?
was unable to the test the Brew Pup as the pet is just bugged or is on beta. stillQuote:
Originally Posted by baisin
soul trader works on beta but not bg's still
Brew Pup works fine in bg's so far in 6.0.2 soultrader is still borken from that bug players did with it or though that got fixed so they might add it back.
follow is still working in arenas as well same as what i got from beta.