Tri-DPSING in raids (hardcore raiding mindset)

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Originally Posted by BobGnarly

I'll disagree with anybody who says something isn't possible to multibox. Not worth effort, maybe, but not possible?

Didn't our recent revelation that IWT can make melee boxing possible proof enough of that? Sure, that required IWT, but there was a period of time between the addition of that feature and anybody doing this where it was a) possible, and b) nobody thought it was possible.

When I was first boxing the Black Knight in ToC, I was seriously questioning whether or not it could be done. Not long after, I was snoozing through it.

Again, I know you guys probably mean it isn't worth the effort, but that's different than not possible.

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I dont think we mean its not worth the effort. It would be impossible to be competitive while boxing.
Hardcore raiding = doing hardmodes, being competitive and putting out very high dps numbers, while doing different jobs, this is totally different from any heroic, when in pretty much 100% cases can stand there dpsing, sometimes you need to strafe left or right.
Raiding is very different, macros will not be the higher dps than solo(bad players aside), Your 3 toons would have to be identical, crit/haste etc, also dealing with single target buffs debuffs would be very hard.
IWT made melee possible, but it wasnt there until recently(iwt+click to move), before efficient melee boxing was possible but it basically was bad.

edit. Also that would nmean that you would have to box pure dps classes, no high end guild will bring 3 ele shamans, or in fact 3 hybrids of the same type(exclude melee)

Boxing all the raid content is completely possible, but I don't believe it's feasible in a hardcore raid guild pushing progression content. It will always take longer to learn the fight, and you will never be able to perform 100% of what a good player playing the same character could. (Pretty broad statement, but I stand by it. The split second it takes to see which slave needs to do what is already a difference between a solo player and boxer.)

That isn't to say you can't be in a current-tier raiding guild tri-boxing dps. If you have bad players (who underperform for their gear or stand in fire all the time) then bringing a good tripleboxer may be better for the raid.

It's even harder with ICC and attempt-limited bosses. We killed putricide25 the first week on our 10th attempt. 1 wipe due to a boxer needing to learn the fight would have been enough to block us for the week.

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Originally Posted by poing

Even when it comes to trolling, I'm a baddie!

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pwongggg is trolling me!

I am not talking about doing hard modes. Though i understand people could have taken it that way as i used the word hardcore. But that was not the intent. Most servers do not have guilds that are capable of pushing hard modes unless they are a top guild... and top guilds would not have boxers in them unless they were superb which in most cases isn't possible.

What did you mean by "hardcore raiding mindset"? If your goal isn't to compete for the top rank spots on your server and you just want to see content at whatever pace you can, then isn't that the definition of a casual raiding guild?

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Originally Posted by Niley

pwongggg is trolling me!

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Qouting(is that even a word?) myself, just wanted to say that Poing is another boxer in my guild, he's really really good player and i think he was being serious here.
He just doesn't post as much as I do, but he's not a troll ;)

i probably don't make myself clear when i post.

all i meant was that even if it's hard, you can give it a try. boxing is about pushing the limits of what you can do, no point in not seeing how far you can get. you may not be able to handle hard modes, but you can learn a lot about fight mechanics from doing rather than observing.

Click to move means you can move 3+ people in different directions at the same time without worrying about autorun overshooting. A lot of the things posted that people say isn't possible are possible because of this. Also sometimes it's surprising what you can do when you overgear something.

Click to move and interact with target are godsends, ever since I came over from DAoC many years ago (heh) I always lamented the loss of /stick and /face that were implemented there, and now we have analogues of those commands here.

That said, interact with target and click to move are great when you're talking about several toons running in different directions to arrive at the same spot. Beautiful.

But when you have one toon kiting 20-25 yards away from the boss and the other two having to run through the boss to avoid slime spray, the load on a boxer's attention and coordination spike a ton. That's Rotface. Putricide having one toon kite gas cloud while the others attack I could only see being feasible with melee. Blood Prince Council I don't see boxing successful for quite a while, it's got a lot of the Vashj vibe of 8 different tasks/jobs going on at once and if anyone muffs it it's a wipe.

I take hardcore raiding to be of the "top meters or be benched" crews, with mandatory specs, mandatory attendance, swapping toons from the bench per fight as needed, the ones who used to respec between fights before dual specs. That's the mindset of a hardcore raiding environment, even if every factor isn't present you know what I mean. I don't see a boxer being welcomed to an environment like that unless there's other factors at work (the GL happens to be your friend from high school or the like), because hardcore raiding it's about the raider conforming to the raid, and boxing in a raid requires the raid to conform to the boxer somewhat.

Eventually all of ICC will be boxed I'm sure, between the BoT (buff over time) mechanic, people outgearing things, and several of our very talented (and dextrous) boxers who have the credibility on their servers to form a raid specifically to try it. I could see some of the techniques from boxing the safety dance working for example on the Council.

But hardcore? As in pre-nerf serious progression dictatorial type raiding? No. Tuned too tightly and progression guilds are able to recruit non-bads who individually will outperform the dps output of the boxer's individual toons.

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Originally Posted by Niley

Qouting(is that even a word?) myself, just wanted to say that Poing is another boxer in my guild, he's really really good player and i think he was being serious here.
He just doesn't post as much as I do, but he's not a troll ;)

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LoL...when I see an account with only a few posts to its name, making what looks like troll posts I just assumed it was another multiboxing hater. :)

But all good - no harm, no foul. :cool:

Cheers,
S.