Incoming Pally Nerfs that Affect Tanks

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Originally Posted by 'shaeman',index.php?page=Thread&postID=140191#post 140191

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Originally Posted by 'Haruko',index.php?page=Thread&postID=140172#post1 40172

Being a longtime Warlock player; we never in our life have been nerfed this hard or this fast, this is something for the record books...blizzards own black sheep goes home sad.

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I seem to remember the nerfs were pretty quick when the felguard was first introduced - or that one second imp firebolt that hurt big time.

I think when things are so out of balance it becomes evident quickly and something has to be done.

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Imp was called "machine gun imp" :D & that actually seemed like awhile for me. The felguard melee damage was hotfixed pretty fast, but Aff was outright nuts & that didn't get nerfed until what S2. I remember kalgan saying "my warrior shouldn't be getting life-drain from 100%-0%". Those are pet nerfs though, you still have the Warlock abilities you deal with as well.

This Paladin nerf takes the cake hands down on any nerf I've seen. Took a class that get's laughed at to a class that lays down literally the law then get's nerfed & GC stated a Outright nerf. Never seen that ever 8|

Still gonna RAF a paladin & see what happens. I want to tank, so I hope that gets fixed fast enough.

edit: reposting...

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Originally Posted by 'Aethon',index.php?page=Thread&postID=140254#post1 40254

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Originally Posted by 'valkry',index.php?page=Thread&postID=140173#post1 40173

.... It's hard enough for healers to kill things as it is...but you know what? Blizzard is releasing the dual-specs thingie soon, so you can switch to ret easily when you want to kill something.
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Shadow priests.

Also, please don't nerf Arcane mages. I like mine a lot. Just get rid of that bug that allows rogues to have 2 weapons out at the same time and their stuns.

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Arcane Mages & Boomkins are probably next. No mages lovers flame me now (girlfriend plays one). Arcane has been under the radar since paladins we're stealing the show, but there always seems to be a outcry for some class which is why I feel Blizzard needs to balance around what they feel is right, not the community. I love playing that mage now & then. Arcane barrage FTW :thumbsup:

I don't feel mages are too bad. Sure the changes to blizzard combined with aoe dmg caps raised was anoying as hell, but it won't be doing too much more dmg than it is at lvl 80.

With BoSanc and Spiritual Attunment, I was never using S/JoW anyway. The nerf that was going to hurt was SoCor, but they decided to only nerf that by a fraction of what it was going to be. With the armor changes on bosses and the fact that one of our main threat abilities is not available until level 75, i don't see this as being a big issue as far as TPS is concerned. I'm sure there are number crunchers our there that will disagree or support what I am saying here. At the most, I will be going back to the %2 threat enchant on my gloves. We will see.

Stupid retnoobs, go away so they can go nerf mages next. ;)

First they said IF prot was hit hard they would adjust, not that they would automatically adjust prot/holy DPS to compensate. Lets be honest, the ret-pallies-are-OP mantra was on beta and PTR for weeks and Blizzard waited until the patch was live for a week to tweak it, its unlikely they are going to tweak prot and holy too much more now with just 2 weeks to go.

Still prot tanking 70-80 is fine (as is bear/warrior), thats all that really matters for now. We'll see how it ends up at 80 in heroics and raids, with the armor changes its hard to say who is going to be a better tank for multiboxers still imo. I am playing around this week to let my warrior be my groups tank and see how I run heroics compared with my pally.

Being honest, with 6 months + in Beta and 2 months on the PTR before live Blizzard were either:

a) Incompetent in development, letting the retribution tree make it to live with what they now post (GC paraphrased) was (ver. 1) far higher burst damage in PvP, (ver 2) significantly higher PvP and PvE burst damage or (ver. 3) too much DPS in PvE and PvP (no mention of burst made).

b) Engaged in some underhanded shenanigans to encourage pre-orders based on incorrect information regarding the intended trees (seems unlikely)

c) Reacting to a huge amount of whining (justified or not) on the forums regarding Retribution paladins in PvP and, after about a week of normal raiding had happened, in PvE.

So the choice is either incompetence, tinfoil hat theory or caving to player pressure....

Personally, I cannot really recall any issue where they over nerfed a class and then brought it back up. What I have seen is over nerf class x. OH, wait, lets nerf Classes y and z to bring them more in balance with class x. Then a few weeks/patches later. We're going to nerf class a, b and c and boost d a little to bring them all in line with the others.

Every once in a while, we'll get a very small "such talent is now a base skill" boost, but usually nothing much.

And, I also really hate the double standards. "We're fine with where Ret DPS is at the moment" followed by "We're going to make some slight changes to ret, but not nerf into the ground" and finally, "to the ground, baby" that we're seeing now.

Is there really that much lack of testing? You don't think they could try a few things out before they go live? I'd rather have my x-pak pushed back a week or 3 and get a product that deserves my money. Not something that is "this is the best we could do, maybe we'll patch it later."

Blizzard already makes tons of money, is Activision really hurting that much everywhere else that they need to set concrete deadlines for software?

Now, playing my 60 RaF'd pally with extreme crap gear, taking on content above my normal level (to say nothing for the gear, learning curve and skills) yeah, we're very OP right now. I hate getting the cake, taking a bite and then having the cake taken away. I'd rather not get the cake in the first place!

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Originally Posted by 'valkry',index.php?page=Thread&postID=140169#post1 40169

My ret pally mate who raided with us was equal dps with rogues when put in the same group as them. I've said it before, ret was a great spec for pros to excel in and be up there, but now any noob in greens who can roll he face over the keyboard can pump out over 1k dps. It's a shame, because they will be known like the huntards now...ret-ards.

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Ret pally pre-patch was on par with rogues? I think your rogues sucked or it was a fight where the rogues could not have 100% ToT and the pally could or some other factors involved.

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As for pvp, there are 3 classes who mana drain, but pvp is rock, paper scissors. You aren't meant to be able to beat every other class (unless you are a rogue).

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Spoken like someone who has never PvPed as a rogue or has no idea how to counter rogues. Mages, warriors, druids, shaman, hunters, warlocks, pallies all have chances against a rogue in equal gear. And a rogue out of stealth is probably the squishiest target in PvP.

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Originally Posted by 'thinus',index.php?page=Thread&postID=141002#post1 41002

And a rogue out of stealth is probably the squishiest target in PvP.

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Shadow priest.

...ok I'll give you squishiest that you'll see above 1700, but it's not like they don't have ways to get away from damage. Stun, cc, sprint+los, cheat death, 90% magic resist, evasion, vanish. They may be squishy but you can't always hit them. They're also the only class you can pretty much throw into any team and be viable. No, they aren't unbeatable, but sometimes they sure seem to be.

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Originally Posted by 'thinus',index.php?page=Thread&postID=141002#post1 41002

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Originally Posted by 'valkry',index.php?page=Thread&postID=140169#post1 40169

My ret pally mate who raided with us was equal dps with rogues when put in the same group as them. I've said it before, ret was a great spec for pros to excel in and be up there, but now any noob in greens who can roll he face over the keyboard can pump out over 1k dps. It's a shame, because they will be known like the huntards now...ret-ards.

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Ret pally pre-patch was on par with rogues? I think your rogues sucked or it was a fight where the rogues could not have 100% ToT and the pally could or some other factors involved.

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As for pvp, there are 3 classes who mana drain, but pvp is rock, paper scissors. You aren't meant to be able to beat every other class (unless you are a rogue).

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Spoken like someone who has never PvPed as a rogue or has no idea how to counter rogues. Mages, warriors, druids, shaman, hunters, warlocks, pallies all have chances against a rogue in equal gear. And a rogue out of stealth is probably the squishiest target in PvP.

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Spoken like someone who can't see a joke...as for squishiest, I highly doubt that though. They have too many escape options to start QQing about being squishy.

Accept the fact that some ret pallies, unlike the rest, were/are pro. Some people will find ways to dominate with their class/spec (read: hunters and arenas, a guy hit the number 1 spot in his team. yet hunters are the least played in arenas, and arguably (with good reason) the worst arena class).

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And a rogue out of stealth is probably the squishiest target in PvP.

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Whats that? I stopped being able to hear you after sprint/evasion/clos/cheat death/vanish


:/