Mosg2's DK Manifesto

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Originally Posted by remanz

Looks like they nerfed holy paladin in a hurry.

http://blue.mmo-champion.com/topic/1...-paladin-nerfs

Is it still a good choice for the DKs ? or simply take bloodlust + tremor for pew pew.

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I don't like the passive healbot mode with the Paladin. I switched to Prot and it is working pretty well for me. I've made a DPS priority macro just like the DK one Mosg2 setup.

Now, if I am running with a pocket healer, I think Shaman might be the best bet. About the only thing that bothers me is fear bombing and tremor will be lovely to deal with that. Holy pali might be better able to survive, but I think I can keep any melee off the Shaman so all it would need to worry about is potential range DPS. With BL + Tremor ya, I think I'd love me a pocket shaman healer.

Prot is an interesting idea.
It adds to the attack, and is rather hard to down, can still bubble etc.
A good toon to lead the team with; DK's going IWT/Priority Macro spam.

You still bring some healing to the team.
Decurse is weaker, but the DK's are immune (via abilities) to a lot of crap.

I'll try Prot, and see how it goes (DK's just hit 80th).



For the healing.. I'd think Pally is the best choice at the moment.

But once Resilience/Mitigation catch up to damage...
Disc = Bubble popping, decent heal throughput, some mitigation, strong group heals, decurses, AoE decurse.
Shammy = Heroism, Tremor, Resistance via Healing Stream, Self Rez, Earth Shield.
Pally = Heal throughput, Bubble, Resistance Aura
Druid = HoT and forget, MotW, Thorns vs Melee, Cyclone/Root, Stealth until heals needed.

After playing some rated BG's and doing some Arenas I'm even more sold that the Paladin is the best healer. Bubble, HoP, Freedom, resist aura etc... These are all things that are great but really the Bubble breaks it. Bubble is insane.

Has anyone played around with dropping HB for obliterate and using hungering cold on round robin?

Right now I have my DPS HB macro setup on R, considering making a DPS oblit macro on T. It will allow me to fluidly switch between the two for those situations where surgical precision is better than the HB blunt instrument.

However rolling into water works on ruins of gilneas late, using blood tap, and firing off 3 HB's then using empower rune weapon to fire off 2 more is pretty hilarious ;p

hungering cold is only useful if you havent used a single HB, because HB should be applying frost fever, and if you HC a group, they get broken by the frost fever.

OB is a nice single-target idea, though, but it is rather more costly, and perhaps not worth the alternatives in most situations. Also, you would need to glyph it to be most effective,. and i cant see dropping any of the glyphs for it

Right, but that CC is pretty rowdy. I think it is definitely an alternative, even if only to supplement your style. In Arena's I think it could be quite handy on some maps that are more open. Locking down a healer for 6 seconds or so means whoever you are blowing up is going to die.

I've only done 2 5v5's with my group lost both but they were learning experiences. The second run, I picked druid out of a druid/priest healing combo and when my paladin went down, priest was oom and druid alone cannot heal through the DPS. This took maybe 10-15 seconds.

I think the problem with making any plans involving Hungering Cold in an arena setting is that it's just too easy to avoid it. When you see 4 DK's you know what's coming. All of the extra steps you have to take in order to make it work against another team are, in my opinion, not worth the stress. If you want CC, setup a Strangulatex4 on arenatarget1-4 and then go to town.

To be completely honest, this team is even more powerful than I expected it to be. The damage output, the healing capabilities, all of it--Insane. I'm considering making a more PvP focused thread for this team and explaining what I've changed post-Cata and what I've tried etc. Unfortunately any video making is going to cut into Zin'Rokh farming time :) I'll keep this thread updated as best I can.

On another note: Void and myself transferred to Kil'Jaeden Alliance and are mopping up with Legion of Boom. If you look at either Void's or my stream you can see the carnage--Mokoi Frapsed his end and should be putting it together sometime in the next week.

I use Hungering Cold more as an interrupt/distraction than a holding CC in PvP. I don't think the damage of frost fever breaks it either, it is only damage other than diseases that break it.

The main reason not to use oblit IMO is that you miss out on your necrotic strikes. Even if you are doing more damage with oblit vs NS/Icy touch, the psychological advantage you get with the heal debuff from NS is too good to pass up.

So for PvP single target attacks I would look more at Icy touch/NS instead of obliterate. Come to think of it what sort of damage does glyphed chains of ice do?

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Originally Posted by Noids

I use Hungering Cold more as an interrupt/distraction than a holding CC in PvP. I don't think the damage of frost fever breaks it either, it is only damage other than diseases that break it.

The main reason not to use oblit IMO is that you miss out on your necrotic strikes. Even if you are doing more damage with oblit vs NS/Icy touch, the psychological advantage you get with the heal debuff from NS is too good to pass up.

So for PvP single target attacks I would look more at Icy touch/NS instead of obliterate. Come to think of it what sort of damage does glyphed chains of ice do?

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I'm not sold on this "psychological advantage" you guys are referring to for necrotic strike vs Obliterate.

Running Frost DK + 4 Rets, the moderate damage alone causes a double healer team to be completely oom after 30 seconds or less (time goes by in a weird way in arena :p ) I have my 1 DK use Obliterate as a priority, with HB only saved for ranged snare, or ranged damage.

Basically, if you are putting enough pressure on the target from using your OB, you shoudn't be running into an issue of Necrotic Strike really kicking in. The healers will already be using as effective (and inefficient) heals as possible from seeing 4 DK's mauling a target.

4dk + healer better than 4 ret 1 dk in arena at 2200+
you could have some fun vs ungeared teams early in the season with 4 ret 1 dk but don't expect to get 2200+

i love the 4 dk comp and i'm leveling it up now