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It they act silly, I just run away for a moment and then back.
I am concerned the Fetishes will block the action but I currently have 12 zombie dogs running around and they seem to do fine, dropping 1 WD for a monk definitely helped the congestion.
If anything.. WD x2 + Barb + Monk might be the next option. I love DPS though.
Yeah that's my fallback plan aswell. 2 globe supports + 2 DPS WDs. Still a long road ahead to get all the LoN stuff for all 3. I have 6-8 Ancient items on each WD. Been crafting a ton of ceremonial knives and only got 1 ancient Sacred Harvester. Already have 4x ancient dagger of darts, the grasp of the dead weapon and other weapons but 0 ancient SMK and that 1 SH :-/
Friend has solo cleared 80+ on his WD and said that a lot of the time you have to reposition your gargs with re-casts to combat the AI problems.
Yep, u have to do that quite frequently. Gargs either focus on trash while u are facing an elite pack alone or stop attacking altogether. Wish the cooldown was lower.
I have been thinking of a different setup with 2x DPS and 2x zDPS, but when you go over GR65-70, you really need all of the damage reductions from both Monk and Barbarian, otherwise survivability will be a problem. And since there is no better zDPS than a WD, you need it too...
Or maybe it's possible to share all the buffs from a zDPS WD among 2 WDs who are DPS... But I'm well aware of the pet A.I. problem too. So I wanted to try 2x WDs with Firebats, but not using Gargantuans in the build is wasting like 50% of the DPS so this is not going anywhere :(
It's not gonna work without gargs. They do far more than 50% of your DPS. Maybe if u go with a 2 hander they will deal low damage but with a fast 1 hander they deal crazy damage. If u get mobs in a tight group they just destroy everything in a few hits. GR50 they can easily 1 shot champions. Right now u simply can't make a pushing build without them because of how good they are.
I'm going to test also a hybrid LoN dart + gargs combo. Darts deal way more single target damage than firebats and don't need mana so u can easily use any BBV on all 3 WDs and be at 100% for your Aquila buff. A support globe barb maybe to help with Gruesome Feast uptime. Gargs can take care of the trash. Darts will melt elites and rg. 3 BBVA will let u hit the next breakpoint easily. I already have 4x ancient dagger of darts + 4x SMKs cubed. Just need a few more items and I'll give it a try.
My other test is gonna be 2-3 DMO wizards + 1-2 non globe supports. Go with an DMO AT ET build with Etched Sigil and a lot of arcane power regen. So the wizards can self sustain ET and let the supports be regular supports that only focus on adding more survivability and improve DPS regardless if they hit mobs or not. That way u can aim freely into corners and let your twisters stack.
PS: nvm, darts + garg dont mix. Back to Firebats.
I was getting hyped reading darts + gargs, what made it not work?
Additionally Monk would be less useful in a LoN darts fashion, everyone would be super far away.
Looking over the spec, could be totally doable.
Both specs dont mix well cause the damage skill on items, elemental damage and a gem. It may work but not sure if it will outdamage Firebats which is AoE right at the center of all the mobs u pull. Darts use Simplicity Strenght while Gargs go with Enforcer. Also Fetish Army damage vs Garg damage on items. Physical damage vs Cold. And finally, darts got screwed with the area damage fix. Blizzard changed the hitbox sizes and now darts easily miss targets and dont hit as many as they used to. Darts are too thin and pass right by mobs. That's why u dont see them high in the leaderboards.
U also lose a TON of damage reduction: 30% from 5 more stacks from Sacred Harvester, 25% from mantle of channeling and 30% from coils of the first spider. And even more if u play ranged cause of Swampland Attunement. Same with dps loss with Confidence Ritual. 2 passives gone unless u play melee with all that DR missing? Doesnt add up. The tradeoff is huge just to make darts work.
Firebats make more sense, specially Vampire Bats that have no channeling cost which means u can simple go with any BBVs runes instead of Rain Dance. Cloud of Bats needs Rain Dance for all WDs which wont stack the IAS.
As for Razor Strop, keep an eye on this reddit post:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Diablo/comm...idea_for_high/
omg that sounds so awesome too... now I may want some barbs. Builds like that seem amazing.
Another tip: found this useful info for ET wizards:
http://m.inven.co.kr/board/powerbbs....x=2974&l=20760
Its in Korean but u can tell easily from the images and video.
I was able to do up to GR79 with a zDPS monk and 3x LoN crusaders, but I tried 80 a couple times and just couldn't do it. Missed it by like 15 seconds one time. I'm going to try again this weekend. I have a few upgrades since then, and a lot more paragon levels. I still need to do the despair upgrade on a few pieces on each guy.
Really, survival wasn't too big an issue (although the monk died a few times). The monk running the Dodge Mantra and it's pretty crazy. I was up to over 1 billion toughness at some points on the crusaders with buffs and stuff on the ground.
Attachment 1614
The barb + monk setup on quin's stream is doing GR 75s in like 3 mins and 80s in like 5 mins. So damage wise two monks are more than enough if you are having survival problems. The barb is unfortunately a WW spec.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kicksome
I think they capped out at around 84 though for efficient farming (less than 10 mins per rift)
Do you have a template for the LoN Crusaders ? Are you using flails, or riding horses ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Kicksome
Thanks for that :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Devile
One more things, also... the "big guys" seem to be using high-level Gems of Ease in weapons sockets for the zDPS. Does it make a real difference ?
Theres no other gem that would provide benefit as a ZDPS in weapon... so its more or less just there because thats their only true option. Its negligible.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cmoidudu
Ok, completed a GR82 finally. I tried adding a mage in the mix, but the mage was just getting killed too easily. That monk is very handy. And the monk's gear still is weak as hell, just a few ancients. Not sure if I'll make it to 85 though. Feels like there's not much room left.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kicksome
http://kicksome.com/82rift.jpg
OK so I completed GR78 which makes me a little far from the head of the competition :D
I have been busy adding level 70 Caldesann's buffs on my team... Also I found that it's possible to "lock" Twisters in doorways, as seen in picture below. Still no ancient Twister Sword. I know I should try to reforge a regular one, but running missions all day long is incredibly boring so I just don't.
Attachment 1616
[edit] GR79 video here, had plenty of time, easy map and easy mob type however. Also I removed my "cubed" Overwhelming Desire amulets since it could cause monsters to fight each other in the distance, instead of packing. I'm using Oculus Rings instead.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JIDrPQMoKoQ
Just wasted like 6 gems augmenting my wizard gear with DEX ... oh well :/
Oh man, my friend did that too. That's a bummer.Quote:
Originally Posted by Devile
Well - up to 84 now. I'm pretty confident I can hit 85. I tried it once and missed it by about 20 seconds. Pretty crazy how a few tweaks make such a big difference.
One thing is for sure - you have to know what packs to skip, and make that decision quick - that seems to make a massive difference. I made some really bad decisions wasting time on shielding guys etc..
http://kicksome.com/tier84.jpg
BTW have you noticed how your character on the left looks like a dwarf ? Funny glitch from Blizzard :)
Gratz! I'm still farming gear. Long road ahead.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kicksome
PS: Can you show your 4 chars specs.
Hey Devile, sure.Quote:
Originally Posted by Devile
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/K.../hero/71329804
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/S.../hero/71329807 or http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/S.../hero/73249681
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/K.../hero/71329806
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/profile/K.../hero/71329805
I ran out of keys last night so I started farming a few and put back my flails.
For pushing 80+ I change a few things:
I switched to doombringer for the ~20% physical - keep steed charge up all the time wasn't helping much with the flails.
I also gave one guy "The Final Witness" - shield glare hits everyone around
The monk runs mantra of salvation - Agility - for the 35% dodge bonus. That seems to be really helpful - I can also spam this every 3 seconds or so - to keep up an extra 20% more resistance to all.
I keep changing things around with the specs on the crusaders. Just trying the different law combos / shield glares vs consecration and long arm of the law vs indestructible passive.
I still need a hellfire for one crusader that rolls a useful passive. I hate farming keys, then doing like 20 uber runs and getting 1 or 2 ancients that are junk.
But how do u make it work with Steed Charge + Monk?
Almost all the damage is bombardment timed with COE. So I have to time that right. I have another force move button for just my crusaders. So my monk can sit there and attack, cyclone etc... in one area, and I can just force move my crusaders back and forth across the pack. My g key will force move crusaders only, and my space bar force moves them all.Quote:
Originally Posted by Devile
I also have the 50% movement law on one crusader, so it helps getting around, because the monk drives - so they go as slow as the monk.
Theres a LOT of damage you are letting go of. In GR 65 I can still kill a pack with COE pony without even using bombardment (with shield glare)Quote:
Originally Posted by Kicksome
Still working on pieces and finalizing the build more but 3 WD / 1 monk seems decent. Offensively it feels fine at Grift 56 (highest I've tried) but it needs more back end support. Trying to find the best way to juggle defensive options while still maintaining crazy dps. Sheet DPS goes up to 5 mil when you throw down triple Drums, and with a Star Metal Kukri it's always off cooldown.
So I was finally able to hit 85, while trying some new stuff out.
A few notes. I switched out another crusader for a wizard on another account (My kids both have D3, but they never play, so I can use their (actually my) accounts as well). I had a friend power level my wizard to 500+ paragon in a few hours, while I played my main accts mostly - and just moved the wiz around to get gear and get on the same map. I was CRAZY lucky with gear on my wiz and played him solo a bunch.
The only reason I did the wiz on another account was because my stash and character slots are totally full. Having looked back, that wasn't a great move, I should have created it on an account I already had 1000+ paragons on. So I started gearing up a wiz on one of my 4 main accounts.
So for the 85 run, I had 1 wiz - with like 3 "Despair" upgrades on my items - but good items. 1 crusader (almost all 75+ despair upgraded), 1 support monk, 1 support barb.
The crusader was good at picking up the globes because I ran him around randomly to get globes. The Wiz, monk, Barb pretty much just stacked on each other the whole time, while the wiz did the tornadoes with no specific positioning strat.
So after this, I'm, figuratively, going to start from scratch with a new group comp or two. I think Crusaders are awesome for farming up to 70 or so, and getting keys, and a lot of fun to play, but I have some other ideas I'd like to try. But first I have to gear the new comp. I was able to do 80 with my other wiz, but got way behind at 83 - but my gear is also terrible at this point on my other wizard.
http://kicksome.com/tier85a.jpg
So I haven't touched Wizards at all this season but from what I keep seeing their DPS is just insane as long as the globes are flowing, is that correct?
Yes, as long as they have arcane power - so using globes and reaper wraps. So basically, you have a monk and a bard doing zDPS and generating globes. With the monk and Barb trying to pull everything into the wizards tornadoes. While a WD collects the orbs and provides 30% damage increase etc... So everything is basically buffing the Wizard and counting on them to pull all the DPS.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellay
Wizard DPS is insane, and the 3 other dudes are here to gather creatures, multiplicate damage, collect globes AND increase toughness by a lot.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellay
It's gonna be nerfed after S5 for sure. It's utterly broken. The problem is the sword, not the class, the set or the skills at all. The supports are there to increase toughness, provide endless amount of arcane power and IAS. It's all about IAS. The more speed, the more twisters u can have in 6 secs and the sword will increase your damage 150% per twister. If there are no AP issues and u have insane APS (also around 100%+ Area Damage), then your damage will scale like crazy. That's why they use Pain Enhancer (rank 25 is enough cause they only care about the IAS effect of the gem) and focus on high density. With a huge amount of mobs, u will prolly hit the highest breakpoint and have like 30 twisters stacking the 150% damage increase from the sword.
This post explains it pretty good:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Diablo/comm...ics_explained/
No other class comes even remotely close to Wizards cause of that sword. Besides DMO is so OP, there's no LoN spec that works for wizards. Those multipliers are so high, LoN is a complete joke for Wizards. Twisted Sword + DMO = infinite damage scaling, as long as u have the support to keep the wizard alive and feed him infinite arcane power.
We can work combinations with other classes to do 80+, but I don't think we will do much more than that without a dps Wizard.
The thing I can't quite figure out yet - is why 2 wizards, monk, barb wouldn't be better. I have around 12 pickup radius on my barb. Maybe the different slow time bubbles don't stack or something.Quote:
Originally Posted by Devile
I'm going to read that post now - maybe that will shed some insight.
I have one geared wizard, and just started another wizard - but on that one I have 12x 84 gems waiting for him to gem up decent gear.
It's pretty crazy - you just need a geared wizard - the monk and barb can have pretty crappy gear that you can get in an hour. I started a WD and was able to get him to support mode in an hour or two also. It's just the wizard that needs all the gem augments, and the BiS gear.
So almost worth starting 4 wizards, use the flashfire spec (http://www.diablofans.com/builds/706...zard-t10-speed) to farm tx quickly, and give all the good gear to your main wizard.
2x Wizards + monk/wd + barb is one of the things I will try soon and I think they will be more efficient for speed runs. The problem with pushing high GR is that without that 3rd support, u will die. Sure u will have more party damage, but those wizards will get destroyed fast. U need the monk and the barb cause they provide insane DR. U may be ok for 70-80, but once u go higher, without the CC and DR from the WD, u will start dying left and right. Not to mention the lack of pickup radius will force u to move around to get those globes which will screw your wizards positioning unless u use keymaps just to move 1 char to pick up globes.
Instead u just build a glass canon wizard with a ton of IAS and area damage, u keep him alive, u feed him all the globes u can spawn and u pull all the mobs u can to a single tight corner for him to destroy them.
Check my spec for flashfire in the other post :D Gearing wizards is pretty simple with it.
It's just the maths here. Let's say that 1 Wizard does 1M DPS, so 2 of them do 2 MDPS (which is probably not true because some buffs won't stack properly)... but a WD can increase damage more than 150%... so 1M+150% = 2.5M which is more than 2M with 2 Wizards and no WD... Plus all the crowd controls that you need to survive past GR75, etc.
Only if u straight add up every debuff it will be a 150% or so, but its more like 100%. Remember several debuffs are additive and u can't just add them like that. Still, the logic is the same. 1 WD will add same or even more DPS than 1 wizard but a ton more survivability. Try a simulation in d3planner and u will see how it can double a wizard's dps. Crazy :P
Devile - man that is so true - so far, 2 Wizards just didn't even come close to the same DPS as 1 WD and 1 Wiz.Quote:
Originally Posted by Devile
http://kicksome.com/tier86.jpg
Well, 90 is gonna be tough.
http://kicksome.com/tier89.jpg
Wow congratulations !Quote:
Originally Posted by Kicksome
Are you leading with the Monk ?
That's still awesome your grinding that high.
Can you give me a glimpse of what it looks like doing just a regular TX rift after being able to do grift 89, does everything just explode as you walk by?
That's currently how it is using 1 monk and 3x WD, but I haven't pushed past grift 60 yet (haven't tried, feel defense is too weak).
It might be time to finally accept the meta and make one of each