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whaat? In cata, lichborne broke an already applied fear, I'm positive of that... I solo boxed a DK main the entire expansion. What it doesn't break is a horror, i.e. priest disarm/fear thingy and death coil, those had to be trinketed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ualaa
If I wanted to win small scale BGs I wouldn't 10 box. I want to dominate large scale PVP, be it AV, IoC, raiding cities.Quote:
Originally Posted by Apatheist
By no means I'm not planning to play 10 or 15 people BGs. Or if I do it will be just to kill a lot, not to win.
This winning concept is so deeply ingrained in our brains that anything else cannot be fun.
For example for me it's a lot more fun to kill 600 players in AV and cause a massive turtle than to win. And ironically when I do get 600 kills in AV I also win.
With a 5 box you can't defend your general in AV. Unless they are retards or undergeared.
When the four DK's were sent at a Priest, Warlock or Warrior without activating Lichborne...Quote:
Originally Posted by heyaz
Or when one of those classes made a bee-line for the team...
Lichborne was useless, to end the fear effect.
I'm assuming they were using Howl of Terror, Psychic Scream or the Warrior Shout.
Unless those three classes have an AoE Horror effect.
Activating the ability, anytime I attacked a group that included one of those classes, my team did not scatter.
True enough, but that's WoW for you. It's a gear based game with finite objectives. If I wanted meaningful PvP on a larger scale, I'd be playing something like Eve or SB, I guess.Quote:
Originally Posted by Palee
I suppose most of the reason I don't get it is that I just don't find turtle-ing in AV or camping some city particularly entertaining. That's just a preference thing.
It broke fear in cata.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ualaa
Also will have to test glyphed pillar as a trinket but from the wording it doesn't say it removes CC, just makes you immune for duration of you standing still IIRC.
Tim uses the glyphed Pillar of Frost with the macro in his streams.
I've not seen him stream MoP, but through WotLK and Cata it was a one-minute trinket.
Isn't that glyph the one that roots you? Seems terrible for PvP.
/cancelaura right afterQuote:
Originally Posted by Multibocks
So then you lose the 15% strength buff? Seems kind of wasteful.
Yes, but the strength buff is worthless if you're cc'd. It's a tradeoff I guess, because pillar of frost also protects against knockbacks and death grip... I guess if you popped it with AMZ and IBF you would be immune to all CC.Quote:
Originally Posted by Multibocks
In cata or wrath I'd say no way, in this expansion where everyone has an aoe disorient, stun, etc. you're gonna need that protection. and will of the forsaken probably since priests can fear you 30 times
Depends...
On the one hand you have 15% strength and immunity to knockback.
Plus you can glyph something different.
When you don't need to break the CC on your toon/team, this is the way to go.
On the other hand, you have a PvP trinket on a one minute cooldown.
Which does not use up your ability to click your two minute trinket; alternatively, because you have a one minute trinket, you could equip two DPS trinkets...
When your team is CC'd and unable to do jack, the knockback immunity and extra strength is pretty useless.
This does cost you, one of your three Major Glyphs.
I think I'll play around with the glyph and isboxer.
Step 1, Pillar of Frost.
Step 2, Cancelaura Pillar of Frost.
Reset to Step 1, fifteen seconds from first press.
That way, I can take advantage of the immunity to everything for 15 seconds and still end it at will, to negate the root effect.
20% str + cds popped = your oblits HIT for 60k.Quote:
Originally Posted by heyaz
Not worth giving up IMO.
Yeah I understand that if you are CCd you don't do any damage, but the burst you lose is insane. If you can't burst you can't get that kill and then really you can only do pressure, which isn't a boxers strong point.
PVP in general right now is fucked. 5's is more unbalanced than ever IMO.
I honestly am not sure any boxing comp is viable to super high ratings this season. I'm likely going back to single boxing.
I know that feel bro. PVP is a bit broken overall, for sure. As this thread started with ele shaman and how tragically gimp they are (not just in comparison to the OP classes, but overall)... I wanted to go back to this:
This was me 3-4 months After wotlk was released. Brand new to shaman pvp, I'm 1-2 tiers behind the current pvp gear, still in some pve and lvl 80 quest junk:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uxBLhlxii68
FS+LVB overkills. Chain lightning globals. Forgetting that it was a mediocre game and most people weren't fully epicced in s5, it actually felt like I had four ele shaman.
In MoP I was in 90 BGs about 12 days after release. I feel like I'm playing one of my wotlk shaman. When I'm not cc'd and dead.
Arenas, I've only done a handful but essentially - one shaman explodes instantly, healer cc'd, others die. Games 15 seconds. I think I got a lava burst off in one game... haha
What classes are killing you so fast? IF some classes are killing you so fast, include them in a future team? I'm no PvP expert, I do it for fun and could care less about titles. For me, if my shammies suck in PvP and i could rarely kill anyone.. i would pick a class that could.. even if i don't win.. i want to be able to see people die lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by heyaz
I understand the argument of this thread though, hard to find a "viable 5 boxed team" I bet someone will figure it out though. And it is still early, things could change for the better 8)
Warriors, ret paladins, mages, shadow priests are the worst I believe. BM hunters aren't as big of a problem as I expected them to be. I usually have them popping deterrence and on the defensive early. Other classes don't even have to bother with that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lyonheart
It's not just that multiboxing elemental isn't even remotely viable right now, elemental in general is not viable right now. Take a look at the wow forums and it's flooded with threads about how elemental isn't just underpowered, it's pathetic. Full dreadful + 2-3 pieces malevolent and you're looking at 30k lavaburst crits. Pop a few CDs and unleash elements and maybe 45k. This is against players with 330-350k hp.
We all have limited energy and time and trust me if it were as easy as single boxing and grabbing one of my existing 85s or even 80s and jumping up to 90 in 2 days, I'd hop right on the OP bandwagon. It's quite a grind to pull another 4-5 toons up to 90 and pray that they're viable.
Quote:
Originally Posted by heyaz
If they are truly that underpowered, i'm 100% sure Bliz will buff them...
Just adding up the numbers...
My ten box team (8 shaman, 2 heals) might not one-shot an AFK opponent, with all cooldowns used.
Eight toons casting the same thing (your strongest spell, with specials/cooldowns), should one-shot anything; it is eight toons.
Not to mention ice block, bubble, deflection, reflect damage...... And prob a whole lot more that I don't know enough about. So many classes can just pop a cool down and negate any burst.
That is seriously fucked up, excuse my language. Thank god I decided to level my DKs. I'm killing 90s np. Yesterday at 88 I had 5 fully geared 90s trying to kill me at same time. It took them forever, but they graveyard zerged me. I destroy every class except warriors. Damn that warrior was hard as hell to kill.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ualaa
Why are warriors so hard to kill? And should I make warriors then instead of DKs? Are warriors better?
They should make a talent which goes like this:
Removes the instant LvB proc chance on FS ticks, and buffs lava burst with 20-30% dmg increase.
Could be like a PvP talent.
Astral shift should be like this:
Ports te shaman to the elemental plains, granting 70 % dmg reduction to all incoming dmg for 8 seconds.
Capacitator totem should have a baseline ramp up of 3 seconds, glyphed it should be 1 sec.
A new spell called Elemental shield or something like that.
Rockbitter shield
Flametongue shield
Frostbitter shield
Flametongue shield enchant would give a stack on lava burst every time you take dmg, increasing the dmg from lava burst, up to a total of 5 stacks.
Rockbitter shield would give a 5 % dmg reduction everytime you take dmg up to a total of 5 stacks.
Frostbitter shield would give a slow effect, everytime you take dmg, the attacker gets 1 debuff reducing movement speed up to a total of 25 %.
Boxing? No.Quote:
Originally Posted by Palee
Single player warriors.
Shamans need a flameshock dispel protection again. It was good in cata if we got dispelled we could pump out rediculous lightning bolt dmg!! Maybe a silence to the healer or an explosion when dispelled which "melts" the weapon of the dispelled person, disarming them for 10 seconds.
correct me if I am wrong. My friend is telling me for 1 Warrior, beserker rage + avatar + skull banner + trinket, 1 Dragon Roar will hit the target for at least 120-150k. And all 4 of those things can be casted together in 1 macro I think. 120k is fully PVP geared vs full PVP geared opponent. So if I have 4 warriors, I would 1 shot my target and EVERYONE nearby after charge. Does this sound right ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Palee
given that my target didn't pop bark skin or shield wall before I charge him obviously.
EDIT: ok , apparently dragon roar total damage is capped. So if there is something nearby, it won't hit all with the same damage as hitting one. So can't 1 shot everyone lol. 120k sounds about right for a dragon roar single target crit. Dragon Roar always crit.
Dragon Roar is the only ability out of all of those that is on the GCD.Quote:
Originally Posted by remanz
Ya, so in theory, I just cast all that stuff with charge. and dragon roar the moment my target is stunned by the charge. Profit! If Dragon Roar is really as good as I think it is, if it really just hit for 90k each, my target is dead the moment I charge in.Quote:
Originally Posted by MiRai
Then you get kited by the mage and hunter which can hit just as hardQuote:
Originally Posted by remanz
huh ? how can you kite me if i one shot you. plus warrior has avatar , which is a freedom for 20 seconds. If I cannot kill my target in 20 seconds, I lose anyway. Both hunter and mage are getting nerfed coming 5.1. Obviously all assumptions went away if dragon roar cannot hit for 90k + on my target due to shielding/damage reduction/heals/immunity.Quote:
Originally Posted by valkry
Level 90 warriors now have group shield reflect for 5 seconds per warrior and an AOE root like elemental shamans. Its probably the best chance vs mage as ever been for warriors.
Avatar makes you immune to snares and it'd have to be a pretty decent mage or hunter to kite all 4 of them. If they had really excellent timing they could make it so you never connect (deterrance, iceblock, blink at the right time so you can never apply a snare and get a hit).Quote:
Originally Posted by valkry
well. that's true. Its a gimmicky surprise attack after all. Probably one shot them once, then they will learn to use defensive CDs early, prior to the charge. I played 4 warriors in season 10 during the bladestorm age. Getting kited quite a bit once bladestorm is over. Also didn't work out a good "shattering throw" scheme where I can stand still and round robin my shattering throw (pre-casted).Quote:
Originally Posted by heyaz
for a frost mage, I'd do my 1 shot macro with everything (immune to fear + root + snare), charge x 4. he blinks. I cast group spell reflect, charge again then cast AOE root, then just dragon roar his ass (in theory the mage is dead already). Right after dragon roar I cast shattering throw. Normal sane mage would IB already at this point. If Shattering throw connects, then I can kill the mage. If the mage use instant Ring of Frost, then all warriors have to trinket that.
If you hit multiple targets your damage PLUMMITS to not even doing a total 50% of someone's HP (3+ targets). So theoretically you need to 1 shot someone who is not near anyone within radius of dragon's roar in order to have it work. Then you are going to eat stuns, snares, fears, polys and every other CC.Quote:
Originally Posted by remanz
You cannot control multiple warrior's to even close to their potential in all departments...damage,control,mobility.
I have warriors at 90, trust me on the fact that it isn't as great as you might think.
Ya hitting multiple stuff will not be able to 1 shot my target. When it comes down to it, it is how fast my 4 warriors can kill. Rets can't kill at all. Back in the days when Rets are working, death grip in, hammer of justice served. Trinket or not, my target dies within 2 seconds. Now after I death grip, you can go get coffee and used bathroom, my target would still stand there. That's with 5 dps beating on him.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shodokan
As for getting CCed, the whole point is to NOT get CCed and kill someone quickly.
what happened to that mass spell reflect for 5 seconds x 4. Imagine if DKs have 20 seconds anti magic shell, could the DKs kill someone with that ? Poping Avatar x 4 and round robin mass spell reflect. Then you are only just vulnerable to AOE stun (ring of frost or frost DK aoe freeze, have to trinket this) or AOE knock down (Pally blind). They can't fear/snare/root/sheep you. Not saying warriors are the solutions. Still think DK is better overall with grip. But warriors do have some stuff.
I feel like maybe we should all slow down a bit, enjoy the group(s) we raced to 90, and ride it out if it's a "rough patch" for your comp.
Work on your alt groups if you want alt groups, race them if you enjoy doing that, but don't do it solely by virtue that you're going to nail the OP, broken comp in the first season and dominate. For two reasons, one: things are going to balance out and change dramatically as they always do and your existing comp may become not just viable but amazing next seasons, and perhaps the opposite with your new theorycraft comp. And two: just because classes A, B, and C are doing crazy damage and blow up your toons, or have too much survivability and you can't kill them, doesn't automatically mean you can macro together four of them and become IDDQD.
that's true. I agree. rough season for sure. Main thing is that I am looking for a reason to be excited and to get me to play the game again. No disrespect for others who do, but I can't justify my $75 to just login and do daily quests, run random heroic, or leveling alts. Wow is a 8 year old game. Gotta play what matters.
I agree. It's not even justification of cost for me, it's time and pain, leveling a bunch of alt teams hoping for a quick fix to a rough pvp season. Leveling makes me nauseous.Quote:
Originally Posted by remanz
Oh I'm sorry, I thought the other team had more than 1 memberQuote:
Originally Posted by remanz
Oooh burn!