I think you both have a different definition of FTL
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I think you both have a different definition of FTL
FTL is a type of targeting system and has nothing to do with spec or anything like that. As Ugh stated it stands
for Focusless, Targetless, Leaderless.
http://isboxer.com/wiki/WoW:FTL
I realize the URL has "WoW" in it but the page itself has general FTL information.
I'm still undecided, but I feel like Cabalist has more reliable burst and doesn't rely on either GTAE or PBAE spells to AoE nuke. That's my biggest gripe with Inquisitor. I try to go at least 20 points into Cab if I'm sub-speccing. You knock the cooldown off tyranny and you get an instant full mana heal, plus all the passive buffs.Quote:
Originally Posted by jca
Also, something I've noticed, I much prefer 12 points into Warden for heal stacking. Justicar is great in PvE, but in PvP it has a lot of flaws. First, you have to nuke to build convictions before you can heal. Not a huge deal for Inq, but for Cabalist it's a pain sometimes. Second, I've found reparation not to be that great. Targets tend to die so fast when I single target them (Cabalist, ST+Obliterate pretty much globals anyone) that I don't really have a chance to passive heal all that much. Also, it's very easily purged out. A well placed AoE purge can really ruin your ability to heal until you rebuff, if you even notice to rebuff in the middle of a fight. With Warden, my flood is ticking for around ~150-200 (x5) and it's consistent, no cooldown and available when you need it. Plus you can single HoT stack ontop of that with spray. It's much more reliable healing than the reactive effects from Justicar.
There are good and bad points to both Inq and Cab. At the moment I'm leaning towards, http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=10...V0VVx.Exobxx0q
Most of the best parts of Inq. Solid ranged AoE, passive buffs and an extra mana cooldown from cabalist. AoE HoT, extra knockback, 10% extra instant damage and a trinket from Warden.
With Corporeal Punishment up (which it always is, when you're spamming tyranny) you actually get 40% bonus damage with tyranny using this spec. 40% is higher than you would get going furhter into Cabalist for Negation of Life, which is where most of Cabalists burst comes from. If you pop off a few tyranny's first, then use Bound Fate, I've seen some pretty crazy numbers. Enough to rival soul drain, and BF is ranged.
Double post :P
PS,
Starting my rogue group now to compare their mobility. The only issue I have with clerics is their lack of ability to DPS effectively while running around.
Hmm...I may have to give that spec a try when I get bored with my rogues. The AoE healing (especially during elite invasion boss fights) was my biggest gripe about my justicar builds. This might be enough to keep me happy.Quote:
Originally Posted by Apatheist
That looks very interesting, Apatheist. Looks like 5 of those should be great for questing and PvP. Then for expert rifts and dungeons, I could switch out one of them to a Justicar role and possibly another one for main heals and support?
One thing though: It seems like it could be useful to have the cabalist "Dark Harbor" resistance buff. If the justicar tank has 20 points in shaman, he could get "Heart of the Frozen Sea" for a stacking resistance buff, and "Courage of the Eagle" for a wisdom buff for everyone. It seems like that wisdom buff could be really neat for an all-cleric group.
I tried having all my toons spec'd 12 into Warden, but my experience was that those stacked Healing Floods simply weren't as good in practice as they seemed on paper and they suck up mana like nobody's business. Keeping the single-target HoT's up on everyone just isn't practical unless you're using a designated heal-only toon. I now keep a 4/4/2 mix of Ward/Just/Sent as my healing sub-specs.
I do like the build above. I've played with the idea of going a few more points into Cab. but so far I haven't been able to justify the lost points in Inq. I still want to play with a bit more in Cab., but my gut tells me that 20 in cab. gimps your Inq. too much w/o enough payoff. I'm always open to be wrong though.
LaDA is easy to use by adding a jump to your key-down and making sure your BoD macro has all the other instants following it. I'll wait until I have at least 2 procs and then use this.
Regarding Justicar though, I think everyone is grossly underestimating the power of DoL. This is the best AoE heal in the game. Period. Building convictions is a non-issue as your justicars are offensive toons and build them quickly as a normal part of their play, especially if BoL and SH from Inq. is part of their spec. With 4 Inquisicars in my 10-man team, a single DoL x 4 will bring any toon from almost dead to full health and top everyone else off in the process. That's one GCD and instant.
Btw, all this is from a pvp perspective.
Warden and Justicar are roughly interchangeable (12 into Warden or 11 into Just). In my experience, the healing output is fairly similar. Justicars burst more healing, Warden has more reliable top-up healing. I keep flood up almost constantly while I'm actually fighting and if someone gets focused enough to outdamage the flood ticks, I'll toss a spray on that target with click healing.Quote:
Originally Posted by jca
Justicar can be good, I just get really irritated with having to rebuff constantly in PvP before I can heal, with people always purging me.
With primary Inquisitor and 20 subbed into Cabalist, I never have mana issues. Aggressive renewal and vile power are both on 60 second cooldowns and give close enough to full mana.
The only thing you're really losing from Inq by putting 20 into Cab is the passive bonus to vex and sanction heretic. It doesn't effect your primary damage abilities at all. Trading circle of oblivion for no cooldown tyranny and bound fate is a good deal.
By the way, is it just me, or does bound fate hit ridiculously hard? My gear is terrible (I've just hit 50, still in mostly level ~40 blues and a few quest items). I've seen crits up to like 2200-2300+ with corporal punishment up. That's more than my BoD hits for, and it's AoE.
You're right about being susceptible to purges. That's probably the only big drawback of Justicar sub-specs. At the same time, to really make a significant different, everyone has to be purging your toons and that means they're not doing damage. Most things just don't live long enough to purge enough off enough toons to be that effective with it. Especially if you stack junk buffs as well.
Don't get me wrong. I love Healing Flood. It's a great, low-maintenance way to keep everyone topped off. The big problem though is burst. PvP is all about burst damage and to counter that you need burst healing. Healing Flood, even stacked and with Healing Spray, won't save a toon that's getting focused and in immediate danger of dying in the next 2 gcd's. Combine them though with an instant bit of burst healing to let the toon live at least a couple more ticks and it's incredibly effective. A big drawback of Healing Flood though is that it only effects up to 5 toons. That means that while you can keep it up on your own group it contributes nothing to the rest of your team in WF's. Both the Sentinel and Justicar AoE heals can hit up to 10 toons.
I do find the points to get the vex and sanction bonuses to be absolutely worth it. Maybe having a larger team makes a difference here, but spreading stacked vex around is not trivial damage. I've had people dies from just that if they're not getting heals. That also provides a low-grade HoT as well. Sanction though is a beast + a DoT + Instant. I place a lot of value on instant casts and sanction is pretty important to be effective there.
The problem with instant Tyranny is that it really isn't instant. You still have to wait for decays to build. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm under the impression that the talent for reducing Tyranny's CD doesn't effect Bound Fate?
And yeah, stacked Bound Fate's always make me giggle like a little girl. It hits incredibly hard.
This is a good point. It does make us much more useful in bigger fights. Maybe what I need to do is use the video feed function and set up a little mini buff window for each of my toons, so I can see more easily when I need to replace cavalier.Quote:
Originally Posted by jca
This is pretty much what I do. I leveled 4 clerics and a chloro/archon (which I later changed to chloro/lock) but I really didn't like the way the mage sync'd with the clerics, so I leveled a 5th cleric solo and I much prefer it. For instances, I change one of my clerics to Justicar and one to Warden and I haven't found anything I wasn't able to clear yet. 4x DoL is basically a tank cooldown . . . with no cooldown. If you ever get in trouble, pop DoL and the whole group is instantly full again. I much prefer 11 points into Justicar in PvE, because you can always rely on having conviction.Quote:
Originally Posted by Smedbox
It doesn't effect BF, but it reduces the cooldown on tyranny and obliterate. Tyranny you can spam nonstop, but after the first hit, you only have time to build up one decay between GCD's, so subsequent tyranny's hit for a bit less. It's still nice damage, though, for an instant spammable AoE. It's like 300 for tyranny itself plus around 100 per stack of decay (up to 3 max). Decay builds up at around 1 per 1.5 sec.Quote:
Originally Posted by jca
Oh, one thing I wanted to add.
Don't overlook CoO. I don't like ground targeted spells and used to overlook this one. It's not a replacement for BF, Tyr and SD, it's a complement. Both BF and SD have cast times during which you're not doing damage and people have a chance to get topped off from HoT's, etc. CoB starts doing damage immediately when you start channeling. While it's easily healable when a single toons casts CoO, stacking them makes a death zone for people trying to get on you.
I am fascinated with the Cab tree though and wish I could free up some more points for it. I'm always playing with specs though, so who knows, I may give a more cab-heavy spec a spin for a while.
I've tried using it, it's just so easy to interrupt/knockback/silence. It also has issues targeting with camera angles, using it at range effectively is iffy at best. It's fairly simple to plant it ontop of your group, but I'd rather use that time for a SoulDrain or knockbacks if it comes to that. With 10 clerics t might be decent against melee rushes, with only 5 it doesn't do enough damage to keep people off me.Quote:
Originally Posted by jca
It's annoying that Rift doesn't give you the option to save camera angle settings.
You're probably right that it's a scaling difference. 5 vs 10 does change some dynamics.
You have got me thinking though. I'd always assumed that spamming tyranny without full decays just wasn't very effective. Cab though is one of the few cleric specs I haven't played to a high level one-boxing so maybe my impression is wrong. I'll play with it a bit, just have to figure out what I could stand losing in Inq.
Based on what you've said, I'm thinking of this spec for levelling 5x clerics:
Level 10: 3 Inquisitor, 4 Cabalist, 6 Justicar: http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=10rod.Vz.m.h
Level 20: 11 Inquisitor, 9 Cabalist, 6 Justicar: http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=10rod.Vz.Vzc.E0o
Level 30: 11 Inquisitor, 21 Cabalist, 8 Justicar: http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=10rod.Vd.VzVVx.E0o
Level 40: 21 Inquisitor, 21 Cabalist, 11 Justicar: http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=10....VzVVx.ExobM0o
Level 50: 33 Inquisitor, 21 Cabalist, 12 Justicar: http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=10...VzVVx.ExobMxkq
Modifications to Apatheist's spec is:
- Swapped out Warden for Justicar.
- Added Cabalist "Dark Harbor" buff.
- Removed Inquisitor "Life and Death Concord" because I don't want to manage random instas on all characters.
- Added Inquisitor "Clinging Spirit".
- Added Inquisitor "Determination" and "Bewilder" for more CC.
This is the Justicar tank spec I'm thinking of for dungeons:
Level 50 Tank: 38 Justicar, 20 Shaman, 8 Inquisitor: http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=10...sdoo.VedzzM.Vh
It has 20 points in Shaman for the Wisdom buff, which seems nice for an all-Cleric team.
Comments?
been running my cleric tank in couple of experts and think with that many points in shaman you will end up being to soft. mien of leadership gives you 1% of armor for every point in justicar. i'm running 51 justicar 8 shaman 6 inquisitor. by having 51 points over 38 gives you. 14% more armor. and found i went oom with out commitment. but the great thing with rift is you can make a spec that works for what you want. just wanted to share what i had found outQuote:
Originally Posted by Smedbox
Good point, I didn't realize the boost in armor Mien of Leadership gave. With the shaman build I was thinking of improving spell power instead to increase damage (+passive healing), dodge, block and parry - as well as increasing DPS and Healing from the other clerics in the party...Quote:
Originally Posted by leroyreborn
Regarding mana, I'm hoping the crit-heavy shaman build would give about the same mana regen with "Endless Winter', but I may be wrong about that?
not sure on the mana. but one way to find out. try it worst would be have to respec to some thing elseQuote:
Originally Posted by Smedbox
I'm trying to do as much of the planning ahead of time - I'm going to do the 24-hour Extra Life event and I don't want to spend too much time respeccing and testing during the event... :) On the other hand, I may not reach many dungeons and certainly not level 50 so the tank spec won't matter too much.
But I could certainly remove two points from Inquisitor and move them to Justicar. I could get 3 pts in Commitment and 40 pts total.
With 10 Cabalists, I'm pretty sure you could win Port Scion with nothing but tyranny and DoL spam.Quote:
Originally Posted by jca
Your first goals with a Cleric group should be 6 points in Justicar, since salvation does next to nothing at low levels and you have no other worthwhile heals with this spec. Next, aim for 11 in Inquisitor for aggressive renewal. I'd just keep going into inquisitor after this, picking up soul drain and the passive improvements to vex helps a more than anything else at low levels.Quote:
Originally Posted by Smedbox
As for mana, the wisdom buff would help your DPS more than anything. Justicars have zero issues maintaining full mana between commitment and purpose. And, yes, 51 points into Justicar is basically a requirement for a serious tanking build. The increase in armor is huge.
Also, I'd go for as many passive buffs as possible rather than the CC options. You won't use them, especially at lower levels. You run in spamming vex on everything you can find, then hit soul drain and everything is dead. I can see an argument for removing life and death concord if you don't want to manage the procs, I'd put those points into determination and more passive buffs from Cabalist (particularly, the +3 radius on AoE's).
I'm probably going to go back to 11 points into Justicar over Warden, too. I'll miss the 10% buff to instants and the ease of running healing flood but, as jca said, the fact that DoL hits 10 targets is pretty hard to beat.
I hadn't bothered with this particular passive buff (the additional radius on AE damage spells). With the primary AE damage from this spec being chain damage (Obliterate/Decays, Soul Drain and Bound Fate) vs. traditional AE damage (Circle of Oblivion is only one I can think of), I didn't think that it would be that great of a buff.Quote:
Originally Posted by Apatheist
Anybody know for sure if the +radius passive buff helps out on the chained AE abilities?
It effects bound fate, circle of oblivion, soul drain, etc. Anything that says it hits more than one target in the tooltip.Quote:
Originally Posted by JamieW
3 yards doesn't sound like much, but when you consider the majority of AoE effects are 7 yards, it's almost 50% more range on all your AoE's.
It's even better with bound fate, since BF is a "chain"-like effect from target to target. You could potentially hit players up to 40 yards away as long as there's enough people staggered between to chain the effect. Pretty win. It also helps a lot by preventing targets running out of soul drain range before it goes off, which it's pretty easy to do.
I've been playing with working in a bit more cab but am hitting a bit of a bump in the road. Cab just doesn't have any synergy with Justicar. I could give up my Sent sub-specs but not my Justicar's. DoL is just too good.
Perhaps I'll try 14 cab in my Inquisicar specs (which is what I'm doing now), drop the Sent sub-specs and go something like 20-24 cab in 6 Warden sub-specs.
Something else I'm wondering about. Since it's obviously a bit hard to keep track of everyone's decays, would it be worthwhile to play with only 4/5 AfD? That should make your Tyranny's line up with your decay regen. Fill in the gaps with BF and CoS. Seems like the only time that would be a problem is if you went a full 51 for SoA. Thoughts?
For Inquisitor-heavy specs, I think not specing LaDA is a big mistake. BoD hits HARD !!! If you're spec'd 5/5 you don't really even have to monitor procs. You're pretty much guarenteed to have them at certain points in your rotations. Then just jump, pop your BoD + other instants and it's done. There's really not a lot of micromanagement involved other than making sure you don't interupt casts when you do it.
I've tried leaving tyranny with a 6 second cooldown, but most of the spells strength is being able to spam it on the move to maintain pressure. It's not really about the decay damage. Even without decay, it's like 300x5 damage per GCD. The decay bonus is just icing on the cake.Quote:
Originally Posted by jca
I don't find I have an issue with conviction. You still have to keep sanction on cooldown and spam bolt of judgment as your primary nuke. I set up a priority keymap to use bound fate and bolt when BF is on cooldown, since BF does better damage even on a single target.
I have to agree. Especially in PvP. The proc buff itself lasts 60 seconds, which is amazing. You can hold onto it until you see a priority target and then just destroy them with bound fate and an instant depravity. Even with 0 crits, it's pretty much a guaranteed one-shot to remove a healer or a DPS that's giving you trouble.Quote:
Originally Posted by jca
Good points. Do you find you're using Vex at all?
I spec'd 5/5 mental resilience and 2/2 contempt - so yes! I use vex sort of like a preemptive HoT. If I'm moving and there are only a few targets in range, or they're not stacked close enough for tyranny, I'll mash vex on everything before I stop and start single targeting. That way, I've got 15 seconds of a huge HoT ticking away while I burst people. Vex is actually the biggest reason I'd have trouble giving up too much in Inquisitor, even though I'd love to play around with improved maelstrom and the passive buffs to bound fate.
I use Vex a lot myself but was wondering how it fit in with a cab-heavy rotation.
I think I can squeeze a few points to get 20 in cab, so I'm gonna give that a whirl.
http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=10...V0VVx.Exobxxoq
There's my "final" build. I've done a ton of testing in the last few days with a bit more in Cabalist, bit more in Inquisitor. Even tried dumping some DPS stuff and trying for 5/5 shield of faith in Justicar (not worth the huge damage loss).
This build seems the best mix of ranged AoE, healing and single burst. Also supports the rest of your warfront group really well with the DoL and procs from reparation. Took the extra point out of warden (Justicar only needs 11) and put it into determination.
Even with 5, vex does a fair chunk of damage. I imagine if you did nothing but stack 10x vex on everything in range it would be a nightmare for their healers to keep up with.Quote:
Originally Posted by jca
How do you find running 10 characters? Rift PvE/raid mechanics are much simpler than WoW's and most of the warfronts seem like you can clump together in a big group, unlike in WoW, where most of the objectives require splitting up into small groups.
As shown in the spec progression links I posted, that's exactly what I'm doing - first going for 6 Justicar, then going for Inquisitor Aggressive Renewal. However, after that I'd like to reach spam status on Tyranny asap.Quote:
Originally Posted by Apatheist
Your final spec you posted is very hard to argue against, and I'm switching to that too for level 50. :) I just regret not having the "Dark Harbor" buff - since it stacks with the Shaman resistance buff it could be pretty uber.
After talking to people on my server, I think I'll keep the tank role at 40 Justicar for now and see what heppens. The cleric tanks there say it would be a great spec and that they love the Shaman "Jolt" spell for Justicar tanking.Quote:
Originally Posted by Apatheist
Note that I didn't mean that the Shaman wisdom buff would be to primarily boost the tank - it's meant for the whole group since everyone is Wisdom-based. Basically a 5x factor on that one.
I'm now looking at this progression:
Level 10: 7 Inquisitor, 0 Cabalist, 6 Justicar: http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=10rod.V0z..g
Level 20: 14 Inquisitor, 6 Cabalist, 6 Justicar: http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=10rod.V0z.V0z.Eoob
Level 30: 14 Inquisitor, 20 Cabalist, 6 Justicar: http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=10rod.V0z.V0VVx.Eoob
Level 40: 22 Inquisitor, 20 Cabalist, 11 Justicar: http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=10....V0VVx.Exobboo
Level 50: 35 Inquisitor, 20 Cabalist, 11 Justicar: http://rift.zam.com/en/stc.html?t=10...V0VVx.Exobxxoq
Ho Lee Shit. Apparently I've been playing clerics wrong this whole time. That 30ish cab/inq spec with 6 justicar for the group heal is insane for rifts. Not sure how well I'll survive invasions yet. Should be a lot easier questing with this build. :D
:) What rotation did you use?
yeah i started out and lvl warrior. maga 4x to 50 then got hucket on my cleric team. well mostly cleric got one mage in the group. but there a lot of fun and have a lot of healing passive and other wise. soul drain rules =)
not sure if you saw it or not but reparation from the Justice tree dose not other clerics with it on. but would still heal your tank if he did not buff him self with it. Righteous Mandate from 14 points in justicar is really nice to put on the tank. only have one on you at a time so no need to have more than one cleric with it reallyQuote:
Originally Posted by Smedbox
Yeah I noticed that. But Reparation would be great in raids (rifts / PvP) and while I'm with just my clerics I was thinking of using it on two clerics or so. The heal from Reparation does stack on other people, right? If two clerics use it then the other three will get 2x heals?Quote:
Originally Posted by leroyreborn
Not sure what to do with Righteous Mandate. Only the tank will have that many points in Justicar to get it, but it seems the tank won't be overhealed very much by Salvation. It seems to me that this ability fits better on an off-tank...
yeah every one your group with will get the healing for Reparation so it is great for rifts and the likes.Quote:
Originally Posted by Smedbox
Throw all the life-based instants and Obliterate on my main single-target button.Quote:
Originally Posted by Smedbox
Second button has Bound Fate, Soul Drain then tyranny spam backed up by Sanction Hereric/Bolt of Radiance in case somehow I'm out of decays.
Seems to do OK. Still not familiar enough with this to be very successful in instance runs. Seems to just blow mana like no tomorrow and justicar heals are OK but just not enough to keep the tank up in an AoE pull. I may have to setup alternate souls for instance running.
Reparation effects the whole group, regardless of who else has the buff. I'm not sure if the tooltip is wrong, the spell has been changed or if it's just bugged, but that was the first thing I tested when I started my Cleric team.Quote:
Originally Posted by leroyreborn