Unofficial Mojo FAQ

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Originally Posted by Freddie

Toggle hotkeys.

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Originally Posted by Fursphere

4 - Not sure what you mean here

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Just like there's a toggle for mouseover mode and a toggle for broadcast mode, there will be a toggle for hotkey mode.

The toggle wil determine whether user-defined hotkeys get triggered when their key combos are pressed.

Hotkey mode is different from the hotkeys we're discussing here. The hotkeys in this thread have pre-defined actions that I'm building into the program. Hotkey mode is for hotkeys with actions that have been designed by the user.

I see. This must be where HotKeyNet gets integrated into Mojo?

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Originally Posted by Fursphere

I see. This must be where HotKeyNet gets integrated into Mojo?

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Yeah.

To be more exact, this is where the kinds of features that HotkeyNet has will be integrated. I'm not going to reuse HotkeyNet's code. The features will be redesigned and rewritten.

Hey, I (and many more) would use Mojo if it had a few very basic features (already mentioned a few weeks back but I'll reiterate my wish list, in order of priority) :


- Do not pass list (WSAD...) mode but also keep "Broadcast all" mode + add missing pause mode - 3 modes key toggled with visual indication (movable semi transparent overlay would be nice)
- (Movement keys) [this actually is probably in already]
- Wow window resize move and unframe
- mouse broadcasting mode (ideally without actually moving the real mouse cursor in each window, yet sending all events - if wow was a drawing app it should be possible to draw on 1 and have same drawing on additional windows)

Nice to have

- cursor on all windows for preview of mouse broadcasting effect

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Originally Posted by Moorea

Hey, I (and many more) would use Mojo if it had a few very basic features) ...

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I think so too. Pretty soon we'll cross a threshhold and suddenly the program will have a ton of users. I'm dreading it and looking forward to it at the same time.

I'm thinking we're in the calm before the storm -- enjoy it while it lasts. :)

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- Do not pass list (WSAD...) mode ...

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In order to do this I needed two other features to build on. (1) A system of storing config info and (2) a way for the program to keep track of individual WoWs. I wrote (1) in December during the long pause between builds and I'm writing (2) now. So pretty soon the program will have no-pass lists.

(I keep saying "keep track of WoWs" but what I really mean is launch WoWs and retain a way of targeting those known launched WoWs.)

I know you keep wanting me to put simple things in the program right away. I don't mind doing that if the simple code takes just a few minutes or if the simple code can grow, but in this case, if I write a quick-and-dirty no-pass system, it'll take a few days and then I'll have to throw the simple code away and replace it with new code, I'd rather just write the real code in the first place.

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add missing pause mode - 3 modes key toggled with visual indication (movable semi transparent overlay would be nice)

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I'm writing the hotkey-toggle stuff right now as a result of Fursphere's comments. By the way the program is going to have four modes, not three because Fursphere made me realize that broadcast-to-windows and broadcast-to-computers are separate important modes.

The overlay could be added easily but I don't know if that's the best use of my time at this early stage when so many core features need to be created.

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- (Movement keys) [this actually is probably in already]

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Broadcast mode can do movement keys. The underlying key-injection code is finished and it handles movement keys fine.

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- Wow window resize move and unframe

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This had to wait until the program can keep track of individual WoWs.
Also I want to make a really really nice graphical interface for PIP / maximizer / layout / whatever you call all that stuff generically.

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- mouse broadcasting mode (ideally without actually moving the real mouse cursor in each window, yet sending all events - if wow was a drawing app it should be possible to draw on 1 and have same drawing on additional windows)

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Broadcast of clicks will be extremely easy to add -- I'll do that very soon.

Broadcast of drags (i.e. the ability to draw, that's a good way to describe it) -- I'm going to try to do this, it may turn out to be easy. I've never tried before so I don't know. Does anybody know if Octopus can do it without its optional hook code and without its optional filter driver? If Octopus can do it with those limitations, then it will be easy for me to add it to Mojo.

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- cursor on all windows for preview of mouse broadcasting effect

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I'm working under the restrictions with Mojo of using only the normal OS API. Therefore no hooking of DLLs. I don't know if this is possible under these limitations.

If somebody wants to help with this they could read the MSDN documentation for new stuff in DirectX 10 and 11 and the new desktop window manager API stuff in Vista, etc., and see if they can find a way.

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I'm writing the hotkey-toggle stuff right now as a result of Fursphere's comments. By the way the program is going to have four modes, not three because Fursphere made me realize that broadcast-to-windows and broadcast-to-computers are separate important modes.

The overlay could be added easily but I don't know if that's the best use of my time at this early stage when so many core features need to be created.

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I <3 Freddie.

Agreed that the overlay would be extremely nice - but can sit on the back burner for awhile.

On the broadcast subject, I think we talked about this - but once Mojo understands that each wow is a serperate wow, it would be nice to turn off each wow individually. (multi-PC multi-client setups... like 2 on one, 3 on another).

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Originally Posted by Fursphere

I <3 Freddie.

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Aw shucks :)

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On the broadcast subject, I think we talked about this - but once Mojo understands that each wow is a serperate wow, it would be nice to turn off each wow individually. (multi-PC multi-client setups... like 2 on one, 3 on another).

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Yeah definitely.

Agree that some overlay to display infos/modes can wait, it's "nice to have"

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Originally Posted by Freddie

I'm working under the restrictions with Mojo of using only the normal OS API. Therefore no hooking of DLLs. I don't know if this is possible under these limitations.

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I wasn't thinking of showing the real cursor but maybe just your own drawing on top of the screen at the location the click, etc... would go (in a way that relates then to the previous item)

Again, take your time, I'm happy with HKN in the meantime (and my daughter can wait to box until next break)

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Originally Posted by Moorea

I wasn't thinking of showing the real cursor but maybe just your own drawing on top of the screen at the location the click, etc... would go (in a way that relates then to the previous item)

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Are you saying that Mojo should do its own drawing? Yes, absolutely, it would have to. But it has to use operating system services to do the drawing. The drawing has to be very, very fast and it can't mess up the graphics in the window beneath it. These are difficult requirements because the underlying window is using DirectX to composite its graphics on the video card and (so far as I know) the operating system doesn't provide any way for some other process (i.e. Mojo) to mix its own graphics into the first process's DirectX composition. But there are lots of nooks and crannies in the ecosystem created by the video driver, DirectX, Windows desktop window manager, etc., and Microsoft has added a lot of new stuff in these areas over the last couple of years, so maybe there's a way.

Or are you saying the drawing doesn't have to look like a cursor but could look like something else?

in windowed mode, I can have for instance a 20% opaque/transparent clock widget on top of my wow windows (always on top; opacity 20%) - so rather than manipulate the OS cursor, can you plug in that way maybe ? and yes I meant the shape drawn doesn't have to be what the actual custom cursor from the game would be and maybe just a simple cross hair instead - if that makes the problem simpler

ps: that opacity setting, assuming its an OS support, could be a good way to easily overlay the status window maybe ? the alternative is however the volume controls show up sometime (green bars on top of the screen)

example of what I mean for standard (windows7) widget overlay :

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_VMUAeYUcLwc/S1...getoverlay.jpg

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Originally Posted by Moorea

in windowed mode, I can have for instance a 20% opaque/transparent clock widget on top of my wow windows (always on top; opacity 20%) - so rather than manipulate the OS cursor, can you plug in that way maybe ? and yes I meant the shape drawn doesn't have to be what the actual custom cursor from the game would be and maybe just a simple cross hair instead - if that makes the problem simpler

ps: that opacity setting, assuming its an OS support, could be a good way to easily overlay the status window maybe ? the alternative is however the volume controls show up sometime (green bars on top of the screen)

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This is the kind of thing I was getting at when I talked about reading the MSDN docs for new DWM/DirectX stuff in Vista and Win 7.

Traditionally (up until Vista) a program would have done what you describe by making a window that looks like a cursor. (Programs paint their own windows so if Mojo wants to make a window that looks like a cursor, that's not a problem.) The program would have set the window to be always on top and moved the window whenever the cursor moves.

There would have been two problems with this. (1) It's too slow for a cursor. (2) As the fake cursor moves it will leave visible artifacts behind itself that eventually get redrawn, but not immediately.

Starting in Vista, Microsoft rewrote the way windows get drawn. Depending on system settings and video hardware, everything on the desktop is now handled as double-buffered DirectX surfaces (the same way games draw themselves). Some of this new code gets used automatically (without an application necessarily knowing anything about it) and some of it is exposed to applications through new APIs that they have to call deliberately.

It's possible that some of this new stuff could make this practical, but I don't know because I haven't used it or read its documentation carefully.

The appearance of the cursor doesn't matter -- if this is doable, the drawing could be anything.

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Originally Posted by Moorea

ps: that opacity setting, assuming its an OS support, could be a good way to easily overlay the status window maybe ? the alternative is however the volume controls show up sometime (green bars on top of the screen)

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It's easy to overlay an image. It's easy to make the overlaid image translucent. There are APIs in Windows that allow applications to do these things, and they have been in Windows for years.

The problems are (1) moving the overlay as fast as a cursor moves and (2) not creating visual artifacts as it moves.

If you're willing to hook DLLs and go outside the normal OS APIs, it's a different story. I assume that's what Innerspace does. But that's not practical for Mojo.

Edit: Or if you wrote your own device driver and manipulated video hardware directly -- I guess that's a theoretical possibility but it's not practical.

If I'm overlooking something, somebody please tell me! :)

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Originally Posted by Freddie

The problems are (1) moving the overlay as fast as a cursor moves and (2) not creating visual artifacts as it moves.

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I just realized, given the changes in Vista and Win 7, if the new DWM stuff is enabled and video card is present, these things may not be a problem anymore, especially in Win 7, especially with a fast video card.

I'll put a test implementation in Mojo so we can see.

cool, looking fwd to it ! thx

(and I don't know anything about windows programing so I can't help you confirm/deny any of this - sorry!)

Ok, I've done two things:

1) I went through every "mojo" related thread I could find and took note of the features requested by various users.
2) hijacked post #2 in this thread (it was "reserved and not being used" and consolidated the information there

If I missed something - or even missrepresented something, please let me know! :D

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Originally Posted by Fursphere

Ok, I've done two things:

1) I went through every "mojo" related thread I could find and took note of the features requested by various users.
2) hijacked post #2 in this thread (it was "reserved and not being used" and consolidated the information there

If I missed something - or even missrepresented something, please let me know! :D

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Thanks. This is a big help. I'll use it to decide what to do next.

Thanks Fur - I just updated the first post to be uptodate (a lot of the "this doesn't work" wasn't the case anymore; which is great progress) - and also edited the second one - adding some "meta questions" on some of the requests which are unclear to me

launching wow, startup items, etc... are maybe all nice to have but they don't prevent using the tool; they are just convenience - dot not pass and mouse click broadcasting (and slightly lesser extent maximizer) are imo deal breakers which prevent using mojo so I really think they should get top priority

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Originally Posted by Moorea

dot not pass and mouse click broadcasting (and slightly lesser extent maximizer) are imo deal breakers which prevent using mojo so I really think they should get top priority

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If one or both of you want to editorialize and put remarks like that in the list, that's fine.

Anything that gives me guidance about prioritizing is good.

Or keep it in order to reflect what people are saying?

I don't want to ask you to do a lot of work, just saying that would help.

Am I doing something wrong or is focus follow actually not in the current build ? seems like I need to click when I disable window broadcast for the input to get to the correct window ? can you make the hkn focus follow be the default behavior (with maybe some setting to leave it alone) ? (or is in a preference I missed in some of the setting window)

Thanks

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Originally Posted by Moorea

dot not pass and mouse click broadcasting (and slightly lesser extent maximizer) are imo deal breakers which prevent using mojo so I really think they should get top priority

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I have been multiboxing for years without "do not pass" - so I hardly say it makes the tool unuseable. Or mouse broadcasting for that matter.

Just unbind keys in WoW.

You gota think really careful about what "can" and "cannot" be done when you're talking to a former long time "full hardware" boxer. No tricks here - I did everything the hard way - and successfully at that. ('cept arenas).

:D

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Originally Posted by Moorea

Am I doing something wrong or is focus follow actually not in the current build ? seems like I need to click when I disable window broadcast for the input to get to the correct window ? can you make the hkn focus follow be the default behavior (with maybe some setting to leave it alone) ? (or is in a preference I missed in some of the setting window)

Thanks

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Mojo doesn't give you a way to set it.

I don't think anybody mentioned it until today.

I'll add it in the next build.

In the meantime, if you're using XP, you can set it with a free utility from Microsoft called TweakUI or maybe it's called PowerToys, I forget.

On Vista, you set it in Control Panel : Ease of Access : mouse : "Make it easier to switch between windows"

Hmm, actually, that won't work because Vista has a delay by default.

maybe you can't set it in Vista without a third-party utility. I'll add it to Mojo right away.

I can set it with HKN :-) but it'd be nice to have it built in within Mojo :-)


Not having DNP is a big issue because I don't want to unbind WASD because I want when I mouse over that other window and use WASD that it works, that it always goes only to the window under the mouse and not the other ones; when in that mode

I'll put it in the next build.

In fact I'll put all three settings in the next build. HotkeyNet only has one of them. Mojo will have Windows's entire Active Window Tracking API. :)

I don't know why Microsoft builds this stuff into Windows but doesn't give people any way to turn it on.

Maybe it's part of some standard they have to meet for government contracts, in order to emulate Unix or something.

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Originally Posted by Freddie

I'll put it in the next build.

In fact I'll put all three settings in the next build. HotkeyNet only has one of them. Mojo will have Windows's entire Active Window Tracking API. :)

I don't know why Microsoft builds this stuff into Windows but doesn't give people any way to turn it on.

Maybe it's part of some standard they have to meet for government contracts, in order to emulate Unix or something.

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The answer is simple. 99.9% of WIndows users have no idea WTF you are even talking about. :)

True but lots of people who come to Windows from Unix want this stuff.

If you fiddle with it, you see right away what it does.

lol Unix.

So 0.0001% of the Windows user base? Ya, thats worth spending time on. :)

Just give me an hour to finish putting it in Mojo,, and you can tell me how stupid it was.

But if you tell me now you'll talk me out of it and it will never get done. :)

I never said it was stupid. I was only answering your question as to why Microsoft never bothered putting the features in for the standard user - because almost no one would use it, let alone know what it is.

If you want to add it to Mojo, by all means do so. I'm sure people will user it. Multiboxers are _not_ your standard users after all. :)

I was kidding, but seriously, the strange thing is that Microsoft DID spend money on it. They did the programming. They did the testing. They wrote the API. They wrote the documentation.

All that stuff is 90% of the work and 90% of the money. They did it. It's in the OS.

What I find strange is that after all this money and work, they don't put a dialog box in Control Panel so people can turn it on and use it. (Well, it's partly exposed in Control Panel.)

Maybe its a support thing? If they added they option, perhaps they didn't want ten million phone calls on the subject? lol

Maybe.

when when :-)

ps: I hooked up my 9y on Mojo ! she's dual boxing with Mojo :-)

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Originally Posted by Moorea

when when :-)

ps: I hooked up my 9y on Mojo ! she's dual boxing with Mojo :-)

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Woot. Our first nine yr old Mojo user!

Hm, nine. Maybe that puts the DNP screen in a different perspective. :)

I just finished Active Window Tracking and even made a (very minimal) web page about it.

But I"m trying to get those two graphics files into the installer before I post the build.

http://mojoware.org/help/active_window_tracking.html

what does the z order thing do ?

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Originally Posted by Moorea

what does the z order thing do ?

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Chooses whether a window raises (comes to foreground) when the mouse hovers over it.

Maybe I should say that instead of Z-order.

I just posted the build if you want to try it.

yes calling it "auto raise" would be more intuitive I think

edit: it's working nicely now; thanks

used post #3 for some open bugs; updated feature list and priority in post#2

fur, I had spent some time writing up some issues in post#3 - why did you remove it ?

please do not do that or we'll have issues