Average heroic if I don't slack, 2200-2400 dps, depends a bit on how much mob per trash ratio is.
But tbh, I've started to slack here and there when possible for a more relaxing run. :P
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Average heroic if I don't slack, 2200-2400 dps, depends a bit on how much mob per trash ratio is.
But tbh, I've started to slack here and there when possible for a more relaxing run. :P
I ran Gun'drak again last night (using the same macros I always use), and paid a bit more attention to my rotations and squeezed out 1620 dps or so. I think if I REALLY wanted to, I could squeeze out >2000.
On trash, I use mana spring totem so I never have to drink anything, and that means I have to waste a few seconds healing which drops by DPS (but by less than resting between every 2 pulls would do). Also, on trash pulls I ONLY use flame shock on the first mob, then I don't use any flameshock/LvB combos after that, which hurts my DPS but honestly I'd rather lose some DPS then have to focus so much getting the exact optimal combo.
On bosses I do use more optimal combos but again I have to heal a bunch - I'll have to recount on just a boss fight once to see what I'm pulling there. Honestly unless I'm having trouble with an encounter its just not worth the effort to get the rotation exactly optimal when it takes exponentially more attention/effort :)
Chain lightning will be dropped from the rotation according to what I have been reading about the patch. It will only be used on trash that has more than 1 mob. The mana cost and damage is just not worth it I guess. Geared shaman will be doing lb spam in between lavaburst.
I tried this hybrid spec in orgrimmar dummies and in fact together with castrandom LvB LB with separate FS I get an increase in DPS of around 25% with my 4 Elemental Shaman just self buffed. I can imagine what it'll be like with raid buffs.
The most noticeable thing is, I placed 4 mana totems like I usually do and it's extremely hard to run oom... it's unbelieavable... Spammed like crazy, for about 12min (twice refreshing totems and once water shield and:
Was still at around 20% mana having done a total of 9.97k dps and 6306k total damage.
It comes basically from more shock cost reduction and not using CL I think.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 'Mortah',index.php?page=Thread&postID=164447#post1 64447
Correct me if Im wrong, but mana spring doesnt stack, unless its talented one+ untalented one(I tried 4 of them and only one showed in my combat log).
The problem with that spec is that if You have to move around, You only have 20 yards range, and there is very good chance that You will go out of range, also the lack of shield is meh:P I only have my main specced that, rest of the shammies are deep ele.
Welcome to 3.0. Mana spring has stacked since before WoTLK. It changed from a noticeable buff to a "pulse" like tremor totem, as did healing stream totem. So yes, mana springs stack as much as you want :) Too bad they dont get a boost from +spellpower like healing stream does or 1 mana spring would probably be enough for infinite mana (of course thats probably why they didn't do it LOL).
Niley, what totems is your main using? IE, is it using Searing Totem and getting the benefit of Totem of Wrath from your slaves?
I'm pretty sure it started stacking in 3.0 which came out about a month before WoTLK.Quote:
Originally Posted by 'Fursphere',index.php?page=Thread&postID=164512#po st164512
I thought about adding a DK Tank to my mix as well but I am not even sure how I would level him super fast?Quote:
Originally Posted by 'Niley',index.php?page=Thread&postID=164212#post16 4212
Any thoughts?
I could probably tag with him and just DPS elites down for hours but I dunno if the change is worth it from a Pally.
Edit: Also with a cast sequence macro I end up getting around 1500-1800 DPS on the dummies self buffed.
I tried using /castrandom with FS, LVB, LB, CL, and it seems to either lower my DPS slightly or match what I get in cast sequence. From what I am reading we should just use /CR LB, LVB and manually apply Flame Shock. My only issue with this is there is so much going on I like only smashing 2 buttons. My DPS from shammies button and my Pally tank spam button. (I heal with my resto from my mouse). I just know I cannot be always looking to apply the Flameshock when it is coming off. Unless there is a mod that would show me while I am playing my tank (Which I don't think there is)
I use pitbull and it shows all the debuffs the target has, I reapply flameshock whenever the 2-3 that are on the target drop off (every 18 secs). my 2 button is my /castrandom DPS macro on my shamans and my "tank uber macro", I use shift-2 to cast flameshock on my shamans. makes it super ez. (1 casts lhw on my pally from my resto shaman).
I spent some time at the target dummy last night and I couldn't get anywhere near 3k dps.
standard flametoung and totems, no heroism
I tried these both with manually applied flame shocks
/castrandom lvb,lb
/castsequence lvb,lb,lb,lb,lb
and compared them auto applied flame shocks and chain lightnings
/castrandom lvb,lb,cl,fs
They all had similar DPS against a single boss target dummy. the first two were almost impossible to run out of mana as compared to the last one ( 76% mana compared to an 0% mana using CL )
the best I did for DPS was apx 1900, the leatherworking with the wrist buff got closer to 2000 dps.
Xenoca
Xenocad
I then ran an instance and found that using the first castrandom cost me a lot of DPS against trash mobs, i was only getting some 1300dps instead of 1600+ dps I used to get.
I can see that the mana efficient cast sequence is probably manditory against raid bosses like patchwerk however I just can't understand how you got the extra dps.
I did few more tests, the one below I did over 1 million damage on each shaman, my dps could had been higher but meh i forgot to re apply fs few times :P
I'm not sure what You guys are doing wrong if youre not getting similiar damage, maybe its the gearing, maybe You don't spam hard enough, or maybe its like me forgetting to re apply the flame shocks.
Or maybe its the lack of Dk tank >.>
http://www.hdimage.org/images/blopya...0709182604.jpg
http://www.hdimage.org/images/novx0c...0709182915.jpg
do you guys take into account stopping for heals on 4x elemental shamans?
or do you all have 1 resto shaman to spam heals now?
i was testing my shamans on heroic bosses during my regular runs today, and i hardly went over 1600 dps
maybe some of You guys could post Your cast sequence macros, and i could try them out on my team?
Yeah I think thats why it seems a bit low for us, I haven't tested on a dummy, just in actual heroics, and I see around 1600 dps but all my shamans stop to heal (the tank and themselves occasionally).
The real math is, what does more total DPS...
4x ele shamans @ 1600DPS each
or 3x ele shamans at ~2000 DPS each + 1 resto shaman at 0 DPS
The 2000 isn't an actual number...guess I'd have to run some tests on a boss dummy and see what my DPS came up as to see which would actually be better.
Niley, try this:
cast flameshock manually on a boss dummy
cast LvB manually on that dummy
then spam the following macro:
/castrandom Lightning Bolt,Chain Lightning,Lava Burst
Do that for 60 seconds, don't refresh flameshock at all. Just curious what that does for your DPS, because thats basically what I use on bosses for my shamans. (I use purge in the castrandom also but I guess that won't do anything on a dummy).
Hiya Niley,Quote:
Originally Posted by 'Niley',index.php?page=Thread&postID=165034#post16 5034
Would you be about to do some DPS tests with your Sham Phoin? Also would you be able to do tests with Phoin not in group with your DK?
I'm hoping this will show what kind of DPS shams can achieve on thier own with baseline gear, and a pure Ele spec. Phein's gear and spec are a bit too different to base an effective comparison on...
Thanks!
Stealthy
You do realize how much dps You're losing this way? I can tell Your right now, my shamans will be lower by 600-900ish without re applying flame shock.Quote:
Originally Posted by 'Hachoo',index.php?page=Thread&postID=165048#post1 65048
We're not looking for single shaman dps, we are trying to figure out if cast sequence is better then cast random, and in my case for now it seem like cast random is the way to go. There is plenty of solo shaman data around ;)Quote:
Hiya Niley,
Would you be about to do some DPS tests with your Sham Phoin? Also would you be able to do tests with Phoin not in group with your DK?
I'm hoping this will show what kind of DPS shams can achieve on thier own with baseline gear, and a pure Ele spec. Phein's gear and spec are a bit too different to base an effective comparison on...
Thanks!
Stealthy
I understand it will be worse, I'm just curious by how much. I am too lazy to reapply FS generally because I don't actually need it to take down any bosses. Also my casts are so far off by the time I'm ready to reapply I have to lose some DPS to spam FS while I wait for all my shamans to finish their current cast. This usually stops 2+ shamans from casting for a good 1.5s completely.
What a few shaman add to a group in terms of utility makes up for their lower damage by a lot. Heroism and totems are still the most powerful combination of buffs of any class. Don't be too down on the shaman. The only thing I continue to harp on with the shaman class is not to play them exclusively if you want to do anything good in PVE.
Oh I'm still all about the shaman class, I love them (for multiboxing - solo play its the worst/most boring class IMO). No plans to get rid of them no matter what the DPS is. I'm just curious what things I could do to make my DPS higher - obviously refreshing FS or adding it to my castrandom rotation is probably good. Might take CL out of my castrandom just to increase my mana efficiency as well.
Also when I logged out last I bought my 4 shaman that epic badge totem that increases haste sometimes when using LB - I think that will increase my DPS quite a bit since LB is like 65% of my damage right now.
I believe phein has almost 5% more haste than xenoca.
xenoca has 9.67% cast increase while phein has a whopping 14.39% spell cast increase.
we both have relatively the same amount of crit and spell dmg, talents fairly similar but not exactly the same so I can only assume it's the haste that's killing my DPS numbers.
well, since our highest damaging spell already has 100% crit, and usually fire is about 25-40% of our rotation, crit is a bit behind, defiantly not the stat that You would want to gear for. Basically, right now, it goes like thisQuote:
Originally Posted by 'Catamer',index.php?page=Thread&postID=165187#post 165187
Hit
Spell Power
Haste
Crit
Other stats
Never gem or enchant for crit,mp5 or int. Its useless for shamans(well not uselless per se, but not even close to be as good to other stats as elemental).
elemental shamans:Quote:
Originally Posted by 'Fursphere',index.php?page=Thread&postID=165216#po st165216
Glyph of lava
Glyph of flame shock
Glyph of Flametongue weapon(will be replaced by lighting bolt glyph, once 3.0.8 comes around)
Resto shaman:
Glyph of Chain Heal
Glyph of Water Mastery
Glyph of Lesser Healing Wave
Actually, bad news there.Quote:
Originally Posted by 'Hachoo',index.php?page=Thread&postID=165182#post1 65182
Totem of the Elemental Plane appears to have a proc per minute internal limiter (approx once per 45 seconds), which actually makes it WORSE for DPS than the Level 70 badge reward equivalent Skycall Totem. The Skycall totem does not have a limiter and I confirmed on my Shammies this morning that it's proc stays up well over half the time for me. The Skycall is 100 haste but can be expected to be up 50 to nearly 100% of the time (based on your underlying haste) for an average of 50-100 haste. Totem of the Elemental Plane has a 196 haste proc effect. If the Totem of the Elemental Plane can only proc once per 45 seconds, but proces immediately, and lasts for 10 seconds, thats (10/45) * 196 = 44 haste (with no further scaling as your haste goes up).
This is just an awful totem if the ppm limit stuff is true and a horrible shaft by Blizz. For multiboxers not likely to go to 25 man Naxx, there are few options. I went ahead and farmed the Skycall Totem last night on my team as it looks to be the best easily available upgrade for my team (over my Totem of the Void).
See the comments on Wowhead: http://www.wowhead.com/?item=40708
I didn't have the 70 badge item anyway, I just had the lavaburst totem from venture bay which wasn't that great so I think this lightning totem is still better than that one, and was only 15 badges anyway. For boss fights I think it will be more dps.
I agree that it may be addressed at some point. However, as you basically point out, it may very well be handled by NERFING the Skycall Totem by placing a PPM limit on the older totem, rather than removing the PPM limit on the level 80 version. At that point, it would be better to have Totem of the Elemental Plane rather than Skycall.Quote:
Originally Posted by 'Fursphere',index.php?page=Thread&postID=165239#po st165239
Totem of Hex is still better than either, but I'm not likely to see the inside of 25 man Naxx.
You should xfer servers if you can't find a naxx pug -- my pally is almost in full 25 man naxx epics from naxx pugs, and all my shamans have been in at least 2 of the wings (my resto has cleared it twice now). There are 4-5 naxx25 pugs nightly on Blackrock. There are even now a few Eye of Eternity pugs going on, both 10 and 25 man. My pally did a 1-drake Obsidium Sanctum pug kill yesterday, was crazy!
Also Niley is doing DPS on all his shamans and his DK when counting those damage meters I believe, which means he gets a ton of elemental oath procs and trinket procs (I have the badge and OS25 trinket, they can proc like crazy). I think the people who are posting about the 1500dps (like me) are just measuring a single shaman with no trinkets (or none with procs) and just totem of wrath (and maybe manaspring) down.
Ill hopefully have some screenshots of my dmg tests with my shamans tonight after the raid, but i have been using a castrandom with Lvb/FS/LB/CL due to my haste/hit numbers i use this macro more effectively, i've tried dropping out Chain Lightning to loose some dps, so i decided to keep it in, based.
Niley: can you do a Test on the 83 boss dummy? if possible, the 80 test dummy is weaker, so its like going after trash, i just want to compare your numbers to my number to see how there scaling, as you have much more hit and haste then my guys but haste seems to be playing a bit more especially using a cast random since you are casting more often then not.
Forgot about this topic :PQuote:
Originally Posted by 'Meeo',index.php?page=Thread&postID=165296#post165 296
why test on boss dummy? that requires 262 hit with sp or moonkin, that's for raiding toons to test, all I need to hit lvl 82 heroic boss is 3% hit, and that's what i gear my shamans for, if I'm missing 10% hit(3% talents, 1% aura and 3% from gear), my dps will obviously be very gimped. Level 80 dummy will represent Your usual boss, its not weaker, it just requires less spell hit.