LOL?!?!? or your defending your girlfriend or the arguement was correct. Which is it?! See what I did there?! LEss QQ more PEWPEW!!!~ONE!!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by 'Suvega',index.php?page=Thread&postID=108211#post1 08211
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LOL?!?!? or your defending your girlfriend or the arguement was correct. Which is it?! See what I did there?! LEss QQ more PEWPEW!!!~ONE!!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by 'Suvega',index.php?page=Thread&postID=108211#post1 08211
I wasn't aware I needed defending.Quote:
Originally Posted by 'Draz',index.php?page=Thread&postID=108690#post108 690
All of my arguments are based on facts and numbers -- not baseless personal attacks. ;) Attacking a personal's personal life for lack of a logical counter-argument is more of a general forum troll tactic.
Suvega is allowed his personal opinions just as I am allowed mine. I don't lead him around like a pet, nor does he do to me. Take a look at the bear tanking thread -- he has a very differing opinion from mine, and we still get along just fine.
If you want to disagree with his opinion, then do so. But don't call him (for lack of a better phrase) p*ssy whipped. It's an insulting to me as it is to him, and doesn't make you seem like a very nice person either. Disagree with his opinion, argue with facts, and leave the personal attacks to the WoW forums.
There's no other class that can Heal, DPS, and provide as much utility all rolled up into one package like the Shaman. Paladin is pretty close but not as good for boxing since it's melee DPS. Boomkin is pretty good, and might be as good or better in WotLK... hard to say as nothing is nailed down. Priest is pretty good too but just doesn't have the survivability and utility, or the facemelt burst capability.
I'd say Boomkins never became as popular as shaman due to their lack of cross-synergy with other boomkins and the fact that the anti-druid ability IS fear -- which also happens to be a big anti-multiboxer ability.Quote:
Originally Posted by 'Stabface',index.php?page=Thread&postID=108705#pos t108705
That being said I think we'll see a few more mix/match boomkin+shaman groups since they buff each other so well (particularly with the new boomkin nature debuff and haste-on-crit aura).
Lets look at the alternatives here when we talk about a 5box team of the same class.
What classes are able to heal, DPS and have ranged attacks (pretty much the stable abilities needed for any 5 box team consisting of just one class)?
By this excluding melee classes and classes that can only heal themselves or their pets you just have: Shaman, Druids and Priest.
Now then we all know that Priest do not have survivability of Shaman with shields / mail gear nor Moonkin Druids. So we are down to just two classes that can sucessfully run instances based on class abilities and the ability to DPS quick enough to avoid need for a tank.
As much as I love my Moonkin they just don't match up to the abilities of Elemental Shaman when it comes to being able to 5 man a same level instance without a tank. At least until 80 Moonkin can't OOC Rez, so that is one ding against them. They don't have any way to offtank bosses like Shaman can with Earth Elementals. Until Wrath they can't CC in instances other than Cyclone (very limited) unlike Shaman can with Stoneclaw. They can't kite as effectively either since until Wrath roots only work outdoors, vs. Shaman being able to drop Earthbind.
While Moonkin get the nice Armor boost, they can't wear shields. Shields + Mail gear > than Moonkin Armor boost.
Also the ability to Ankh also tips the favor towards Shaman.
As you notice for the most part the items that have been brought up as being possible nerfs to Shaman haven't even been mentioned in this. Even without ToW, TT and GTs Shaman still would be the best of the best when it comes to the ability to run an instance with 5 of the same class.
A 5 man group of shaman with 5 grounding totems means between 5 and 25 spell immunities. I think they're looking at it and deciding that they really didn't intend to offer so much possibility.
We've seen them do similar things like the debuffs to blessing of protection, ice block and the priest shield. Chaining/stacking immunities is something they've tried to balance against.
Also, it's fairly obvious that stacking shaman is by far the most popular class to stack in a group. Go ahead and tell me this isn't because they are the most powerful.
The other issue here is that the "dispel" mechanism for totems is awkward at best.
Well they are certainly powerful. Personally even if we couldn't have a single totem to drop I still feel that Shaman would be one of the best choices from a 5 box team of the same class. Shaman just have so many useful tools at their disposal even outside what totems bring. Ankhs, water breathing, water walking, astral recall, chain healing, chain lightning, ghost wolf, ability to wear shields and mail gear. All of these things are huge pluses for the class as a whole.
So I think we have to keep all of those in mind when we think about any totem nerfs we may forsee coming this way. Even without a single totem Shaman would still likely be a top pick for boxing, in my opinion.
Well, all they have to do is add some form of cooldown before totems can reapply to your character or something of that nature. I have no idea though how they plan to change it (or even tremor). I hope they don't either so that they don't bother and we can keep our groundings.Quote:
Originally Posted by 'TheBigBB',index.php?page=Thread&postID=108517#pos t108517
Tremor totem is getting changed for sure, they don't want anymore stacking of totems, grounding totems will likely get changed as well. I'm only hoping that shamnx5 can still do the future heroics, that's the whole reason I rolled them as I don't care to multiclass with my pally, mage, lock, priest, 70's... I don't enjoy multiclass boxing because I don't like to play each of them at half-ass to get the job done.
Remember one thing, folks: Shamans are still the least-played class in WoW. Devs want to make them MORE attractive, not less. Of course, this doesn't mean that they will improve them in a way that will primarily benefit multiboxers, but I think it's safe to expect on overall improvement in Shaman power relative to most classes. At least that's my best guess.
Without me doing a ton of research, lets say someone had 4 ele shaman and could pick anything for the 5th.
What would you pick if your ONLY concern was to be safe from fear by oppenents in pvp, for the whole group.
There is no SAFE from fear. But if you are THAT concerned about it..... go Undead and carry a trinket. Unless they leave tremor alone.Quote:
Originally Posted by 'Sam DeathWalker',index.php?page=Thread&postID=108914#p ost108914
Fear is a magic debuff. Priests and paladin can dispell/cleanse fear off almost instantly. Paladin can use their bubble of immunity to even remove it off of themselves and cleanse others while he's still in his bubble. Priest have Mass Dispell that can dispell whole groups of feared players.Quote:
Originally Posted by 'Sam DeathWalker',index.php?page=Thread&postID=108914#p ost108914
So is it confirmed that grounding and tremor won't stack either? Or just ToW? I'm looking at things from a pvp perspective
Well, my group can get out of it 3 times :)Quote:
Originally Posted by 'Xzin',index.php?page=Thread&postID=108918#post108 918
Fear ward on priests, dispel locks macro gets avoids first fear bomb
Will of the forsaken avoids second
Trinket avoids third
So TOW is now raid ride but doesn't stack, OK. So any other elemental shaman in a raid means their 41 pt TOW talent is now useless, or did I miss how bliz was going to fix that predicament?
As is moonkin aura, as is trueshot aura, as is sanctity aura... All talented abilities that work raid-wide in WoTLK but will not stack. A ele shammy can either use their 41 pt ToW to add additional RANGE to their totems if the raid is sperad out, or can provide Flametongue weapon totem to the raid to up everyone else's +dmg, or can add offensive fire totems to increase their DPS. Just because YOU are not laying ToW doesn't mean you don't get the effect -- if you're not laying ToW that means some other shaman already is -- and you still get the benefit of it.Quote:
Originally Posted by 'Crucial',index.php?page=Thread&postID=109966#post 109966
I think they're making this the general rule:
If it works raid-wide (i.e. totems, auras) it does not stack.
If it's a party buff (i.e. ferocious inspiration), it will continue to stack
Having totems work raid-wide is a multiboxer nerf, and a raid buff. Now what percentage of the population raids vs multiboxes?
Furthermore, I can finally stop QQing when a turd in AV gets leader and doesn't put all of my shammies in the same group. Geez that's annoying not to have my perfectly aligned totem combinations.
Without a doubt there are more raiders than multiboxers, but in my case and I'm sure there are others besides me (though we are miniority I'm sure) we multibox raids. I totally agree that you can't have it stacking across the whole raid... it would be incredibly OP. However, the benefit of one shaman out of 5 providing the buff for others still means that 4 of them are not providing any additonal benefit like they used to - the benefit of having an increased range is irrelevant when multiboxing since its highly unlikely they will be out of range from one another.Quote:
Originally Posted by 'Vyndree',index.php?page=Thread&postID=109983#post 109983
A) Not to mention does your post make absolutely no Logical sense, but Personal attacks make me chuckle, tis cute :)Quote:
Originally Posted by 'Draz',index.php?page=Thread&postID=108690#post108 690
B) The amount of F.U.D. in this thread is disgusting (Fear. Uncertanity, Doubt).
TOW will not stack. That will affect about 4% of the multiboxing community who actually uses this totem in endgame (the raiding shaman, or shaman who are levelign and trying to kill content thats 7 levels higher then them...). The ones it does affect are gimping their raid to begin with by stacking 4 ele shaman in the same group.
Tremor and Grounding are still stacking, they probably will stack, and nothign has even HINTED at them not stacking. So get over it, its not a concern as of right now.
And even if they will NOT stack (very unlikely), you are still playing -the- best multiboxing class.
Mail Armor
4-5 Heroisms
A way to break fear 5* per 2 min (trinket + tremor round robin)
Nature's swiftness + Elemental Mastery (No other class has a 100% chance to crit activatable ability.)
You can Fucking HEAL.
4 peice bonus on your pvp set is uber (50% pushback resistence wut?!)
So seriously, Stop QQ'ing over stupid shit. The amount of posts in the this forum with the ZOMG @#$@#$ and then 50 pages of responses to the theroretical change that COULD happen int he possible future is just retarded.
Technically you could still have multiple Shaman drop ToW even though they don't stack for the very reason you just mentioned, range. Let's just use a ten man for example. Group 1 and Group 2 both have a Shaman. Could you still use two ToW to cover a larger radius even if they don't stack? You still could overlap them to insure that the entire group can stay within range of a ToW right? So that being said it is not a complete nerf. Sure you can't stack them, but multiple shaman across the raid would help secure that regardless of location you would still be covered by ToW.
Like Suvega just posted, really it is way too early to be sure what Blizzard is going to do. Also as Suvega said (and has been brought up many times this thread) even without ToW stacking, or hell even without totems period Shaman still would be the best of the best when it comes to boxing because of mail, shields, healing, self-rez, etc.
<3Quote:
Originally Posted by 'mlwhitt',index.php?page=Thread&postID=110141#post 110141
I agree 100% but don't forget self battle rez and....> THUNDERSTORM and HEX.. those two new abilities will make us way OP in both PvP and PvE. They keep BUFFING TS so i doubt it will get nerfed. And Hex will be great for PvE.. even though its not spammable like sheep. with 4 or 5 shaman having it, it will make trash too easy.Quote:
Originally Posted by 'Suvega',index.php?page=Thread&postID=110131#post1 10131
Bottom line, Shamans will still be the best class to MB.. by far... nerfs or not. The nerf to ToW will only suck for leveling past 50.. that i agree!
Given the way totems are changing, if you are running a pally/shaman group this might be the perfect moment to sub out a shaman for a balance druid. You might not be losing much in the 4th set of totems and you gain thorns, mark, good healing, and the nature buff. It will be an interesting situation to watch develop.