Wow forums are blowing up again...this time it's win trading...

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Originally Posted by 'Gadzooks',index.php?page=Thread&postID=62701#post 62701

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Originally Posted by 'Vyndree',index.php?page=Thread&postID=62639#post6 2639

Yea, we know a few friends who are up in a panic. There's talk about people who mass-sell arena teams for money (which is not against the rules, btw) are getting hit with the "exploitation of the economy" banstick, which I think is quite unreasonable given the amount of blue posts around that say that selling SPOTs/POINTs are ok (though wintrading is not).

Even moreso, I feel bad for the people who join teams that have been wintraded in the past without their knowledge, or who left a team that later was wintraded without them on it. Apparently these folks are getting hit with the banstick as well.

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I would agree about people who just bought a team that someone traded on in the past should not be banned...

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Oh I should've probably elaborated on that point... I have a friend who was told by some random person to "hold on to" his team while he logged onto an alt. The guy never showed his face again. It was some scrub 1400's 2v2 team.

Who knows what was done to that team prior to my friend getting it? *shrug* We don't know, but we saw no harm in using it (months after the guy gave it to him) to get him a few points each week. He's really new to PvP, and we figured having it already at 1400's would help him get a bit more morale when he's first learning since we'd be fighting other scrub teams. Should he be banned for it? Probably not -- and, it should be noted, he hasn't yet. I'm just reading all of these stories about people who bought what they thought was a legitimately leveled team and then get the banstick months later... and I just hope that's not the case with my friend's "gifted" 2v2 team.

In any case, that was my point -- I totally agree that people buying knowingly win-traded teams are as bad as the people participating in the win-trading. I'm just sad to see so many reports of innocents who got caught in the crosshairs.

... of course, who is really innocent on the wowforums?

IMO - point selling is very similar to gold selling - they both entail people exploiting the system by taking short cuts to get the gear they want, whether it be S3 gear or an epic flying mount.

While I think Blizzard's approach is heavy handed, I can't say a feel any sympathy for those who had their gear taken away.

Cheers,
Stealthy

Selling points on teams at the very peak on ratings was also very enticing for most who could do so or just smart enough to buy 2 teams themselves (you didn't even need to earn the rating yourself!). It is close to hitting an in-game lottery every week if there was one. If you had 2x 2200 rated 5v5 you could potentially sell 10 slots on each team every week for easily 1000g or more as the demand was huge.

So after win trading 2 teams for 1kg a slot, you'd net 20,000 gold in about an hours worth of work. Not to get too in depth but if you sold the gold (which some did) at $25 per thousand, your looking at $500 an hour real money. It didn't just stop there, this is a renewable source of income every week. With several players having at least 10 lvl 70's to hold teams and sell points it just got out of hand.
Which is what I believe pushed out the ban hammer.
I saw a link floating around of a guy openly selling about 80,000 gold a week and just unloading it. That's crazy stuffz!

Yeah and what good does all that gold do 'em? Epic flying mounts and that's about it really...maybe craft a piece of gear or two then it just kinda rots.

This post from Belfaire made me lol:



Belfaire

Blizzard Poster

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I feel a great disturbance in the Force, as if millions of win-traders suddenly cried out in terror, and were suddenly silenced. I think something awesome has happened.

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Ridin' out the season's end, they think to themselves "Welp, Season 4 is on its way and I'm free and clear"...

Oh, Account Administration and their terrible swift sword.





Great sense of humour and always tells it like it is - no wonder Belf's my fave CSF rep.

Cheers,
Stealthy

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Originally Posted by 'Ellay',index.php?page=Thread&postID=62747#post627 47

Selling points on teams at the very peak on ratings was also very enticing for most who could do so or just smart enough to buy 2 teams themselves (you didn't even need to earn the rating yourself!). It is close to hitting an in-game lottery every week if there was one. If you had 2x 2200 rated 5v5 you could potentially sell 10 slots on each team every week for easily 1000g or more as the demand was huge.

So after win trading 2 teams for 1kg a slot, you'd net 20,000 gold in about an hours worth of work. Not to get too in depth but if you sold the gold (which some did) at $25 per thousand, your looking at $500 an hour real money. It didn't just stop there, this is a renewable source of income every week. With several players having at least 10 lvl 70's to hold teams and sell points it just got out of hand.
Which is what I believe pushed out the ban hammer.
I saw a link floating around of a guy openly selling about 80,000 gold a week and just unloading it. That's crazy stuffz!If someone

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If someone is selling gold, they had better be very careful about who they tell, and they better not be selling it themselves - it only takes one toon who's really a Bliz employee to get yourself sued. That kind of thing is VERY actionable, and we have no idea if they've gone after anyone for this before, or will in the future.

I'm curious what they would do to someone caught transferring gold to a know gold seller account, like one that belongs to IGE. Permaban, most likely, and block that credit card forever. You'd also be at risk of being included in any current or future legal issues with that seller.

Not a smart idea, in the long run. With the amount of data Bliz has on every toon, and my hunch that they are watching the movement of large amounts of gold...the people doing this are just dumb.

I find it hard to have any sympathy for people who try and circumvent the arena rating system regardless of their method. Anyone who didn't earn their points should have them removed and any gear purchased with them deleted. Looks like this is their first big step in that direction which makes me happy.

I'm still trying to figure this out.

Is arena point SELLING and BUYING legal? If you think about it, you join a team, you loose every game and so get kicked after 5-10 games and they make you pay them 500g because you lowered their rating:P

I can see how win trading is illegal but still. I think blizzard is taking this all a bit seriously. Its just a game and in my opinion, blizzard ruined a good game with arena, and now players are speaking up and ruining arena?

If blizzard is not clever enough to program random matching even if peak time arena takes a minute queue. Blizzard should just make it so that its hard to queue up against same teams over and over again. So say every minute or so blizzard chooses random team matching, not choose a pair as soon as a pair is found.

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Originally Posted by 'Unholy[S

haman',index.php?page=Thread&postID=62827#post6282 7]I'm still trying to figure this out.

Is arena point SELLING and BUYING legal? If you think about it, you join a team, you loose every game and so get kicked after 5-10 games and they make you pay them 500g because you lowered their rating:P

I can see how win trading is illegal but still. I think blizzard is taking this all a bit seriously. Its just a game and in my opinion, blizzard ruined a good game with arena, and now players are speaking up and ruining arena?

If blizzard is not clever enough to program random matching even if peak time arena takes a minute queue. Blizzard should just make it so that its hard to queue up against same teams over and over again. So say every minute or so blizzard chooses random team matching, not choose a pair as soon as a pair is found.

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These excerpts from teh rules were quoted by Reythur (Blue):

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Rules of Conduct.
As with all things, your use of the Program is governed by certain rules of conduct. These rules of conduct (the "Rules of Conduct"), maintained and enforced exclusively by Blizzard, must be adhered to by all users of the Service. It is your responsibility to know, understand and abide by these Rules of Conduct. The following rules are not meant to be exhaustive, and Blizzard reserves the right to determine which conduct it considers to be outside the spirit of the Game and to take such disciplinary measures as it sees fit up to and including termination and deletion of the Account. Blizzard reserves the right to modify these Rules of Conduct at any time.
(emphasis by Reythur)
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Q u o t e:
Rules Related to Game Play

Game play is what World of Warcraft is all about, and Blizzard strictly enforces the rules that govern game play. Blizzard considers most conduct to be part of the Game, and not harassment, so player-killing the enemies of your race and/or alliance, including gravestone and/or corpse camping, is considered a part of the Game. Because the Program is a "player vs. player" game, you should always remember to protect yourself in areas where the members of hostile races can attack you, rather than contacting Blizzard's in-game customer service representatives for help when you have been killed by an enemy of your race. Nonetheless, certain acts go beyond what is "fair" and are considered serious violations of these Terms of Use. Those acts include, but are not necessarily limited to, the following:

1. Using or exploiting errors in design, features which have not been documented, and/or "program bugs" to gain access that is otherwise not available, or to obtain a competitive advantage over other players;
2. Conduct prohibited by the EULA or these Terms of Use, including without limitation that conduct prohibited by Section 2(C); and
3. Anything that Blizzard considers contrary to the "essence" of the Program.
(emphasis by Reythur)
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Q u o t e:
Abuse of Game Mechanics

The distinction between exploiting bugs and abusing game mechanics is a fine one. While bug exploitation involves the abuse of what is essentially a programming mistake, the abuse of game mechanics is the act of taking advantage of the limitations of the World of Warcraft game systems. Since the line between the sanctioned use and the abuse of game mechanics is sometimes unclear, we prefer to educate players before taking any action against the account being used. This category includes using/distributing game mechanics in a manner unintended by their design that:

* Damages another character, their gameplay, the service itself and/or its economy

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Win trading was definitely against the ToS according to blizz, therefore no surprise here. Point selling (and buying) is a bit less clear since it was never announced as being against the ToS, but it seems fairly clear to me at least that falls under abuse of game mechanics - i.e. the Arena rating / point system was set up with the intention that players compete fairly against each other to earn ratings and points to give them access to better gear - buying/selling points circumvents this, and as a side effect ruins gameplay for those playing within the spirit of the Arena system. It's similiar to the time before AFK'ing was a reportable / bannable offense. Blizzard had said it wasn't specifically against the rules, even though most players felt it wasn't in the spirit of BG's. Then they finally brought down the banhammer on a bunch of AFK'ers and came out and said that it was no logner allowed.

My guess is Blizzard's philosophy is that they shouldn't have to make a ruling on every aspect of the game, that some actions should be self evidently against the spirit of the game. And that if it gets to the point where action has to be taken, it will be swift, brutal and without warning.

Belfaire stated in a post that more bans are coming too...this was just the first wave.

Cheers,
Stealthy

This could have easily been done long ago. I personally think they have been watching and logging it all for awhile to make a nice algorithm to detect it in the future. I never considered win trading because of how extremely easy it is to look at those logs and see it, if you look at the arena logs it's impossible to miss.