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If what you say is reasonable that when you fight someone and you cost them more isk to replace their ships then they cost you to replace yours you have won the battle then by that measure isn't Wis slaughtering you, by not fighting?
You are playing a game where clearly the optimal strategy is to NOT ever fight and take a loss. What kind of game is that?
When you die, your space ship is gone. your pod is gone too if they get it. Some these ships get pretty damn expensive (with ships isk value translating into $100s). Carelessness in this game puts every one of your assets you undock with on the line. If EQ was anything like eve, you would lose everything you had equipped and in your inventory when you died.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam DeathWalker
War is this game is like a real war. In a real war, you're not going to run head-first into a fight you can't win.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam DeathWalker
>implying not terribleQuote:
Originally Posted by Sam DeathWalker
>implying never ganked by smaller groups
Thanks for showing everyone your ignorance. If there was no benefit to multiboxing this game, nobody would do it. Despite your claim, many people use multiple accounts, just not for the 1 key mashing you do in wow.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam DeathWalker
That depends on how you treat other people. In order to be successful in this game, you need to get along with people.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam DeathWalker
He's not making much money if he is losing 20 bil of ships like that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam DeathWalker
What you are talking about is called the isk war. Everything in this game is driven by money. If you have no money, you cannot buy more ships. you cannot run your empire. Large scale wars are usually determined by who has the most money (which side can replace their ships more often).Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam DeathWalker
All in all, I really hope you do give eve a shot. Your attempt to do what you do in wow would be quite the amusing trainwreck. This isn't a game you can just mash the keyboard to win. Seeing a blob of 100 frigates flying around would be fun/interesting, however.
You can multibox capitals and really give any alliance you are in a hard on if you drop 50 dreads or super carriers wherever they need them.
I dont know if you need 25+ accounts to win eve and have a good time...i've just started up a 5man drone boat setup..but I was able to get my new characters into domi's with garde 1 sentry drones in 21 days...could of been faster had I purchased amazon starter packs that came with those cereberal +9 implants, that would of cut a ton of time off and allowed me to train a lot more skills up that first month...however we learn as we play dont we.
my plan to cover plex is to use my 5man squad in a 0.0 corp to grind anomalies for a few hours a week to cover the cost of plex...i dont have an accurate time for completing the hardest anom in my area yet..but i've estimated with one toon it usually runs about 80-90mill per hour from just bounties, not counting loot, and since anoms respawn pretty fast after completing them, you can just grind these cash cows till your hearts content...not a big time investment to plex all your toons per month...now keep in mind a red sitting in system with you prevents you from running these safely, because if you foolishly undock and dont watch your six..you will be dropped on and there goes all your fun in a heartbeat.
The corp and alliance I've joined occasionally gets into wars, so I also have a 5domi ship stash in highsec I keep just to run level 4 missions if I need to keep the isk coming in for plex's..nothing worse then red's ruining your day when you just want to grind out isk, and they do nothing but sit in a spot in system where you cant find them and keep everyone docked up like sheep.
you could also consider looking into solo running vg incursions..you'll need about 12 dps, 1 logi and 2 booster ships if u want to be entirely solo and fast at it, but isk return on investment is about 100-120mill per hour/toon for not a lot of work, and thats only using 2billion nightmare setups.u dont have to bling them silly to be efficent.
Most any corp would welcome you in once you have your isboxer tuned up properly, if you can field 5-50 ships you are amazing for small pvp roams, and as an immediate defense force, keep in mind though pvp is often not about 1to1 its more like 1vs20 or so...they start off with 1 bait ship that looks weak, and you attack it or go to attack it only to find out its a cyno alt, and drops the gank party in on you, which mosty is so overwhelming you never had a hope. (theirs nothing to say you couldnt reverse this though and turn into a super huge ganker if thats your thing...run bait ships of your own, and drop on people that spring the trap..you could just as easily cyno drop 20-30 of your own guys in cheap ships on someone and just blap them off the screen before they knew what happened)
Eve is very much about isk....and losing less then the guy your killing is always a win in my books.
I plan on upgrading to ratting carriers later on if I prove they will speed things up, if not then no..because the bigger the ship you fly the bigger the target you become for all these killmail whores..so theres my .2 cents worth of info for you Sam, just remember eve isnt as boxer friendly as wow, the interface is aweful, and lasting gameplay value is more so up to the player to find stuff to do then the game to provide it for you.
Alptraum, y don't u join up with my group in wspace?
train for gilas/ishtars/vexor's navy and you could make plenty of isk (far more than lvl 4 mish), and get more fun pvp.
at the op - if you're willing to put your ego in check, multiboxing is a very viable option in eve.
in nullsec, you generally cannot compete with the huge nullsec powers. The two mega coalitions in the game at present have far too many people, and ccp has continually nerfed every antiblob tactic into the ground at the behest of the cfc(the users of the blabbing tactics, there's a spaceship political group the csm which is elected by the players. Etc etc, long story for right here).
There is, however, a part of space known as wspace, where you cannot mindlessly blob. It's considered endgame space as you have no set routes through it, and the paths between its systems constantly change.
sorta imagine a mountain range with constant earthquakes and landslides which change paths nonstop. Sometimes you're tons of systems away from the one you want, and sometimes you're literally next door. You can go from the very top of eve's known space map to the very bottom in less than 2 jumps if you get the right path through wspace. :)
multiboxers can be incredibly effective as a fighting group provided they work in groups of more than one.
for pvp, single multiboxers cannot run the proper types of ships in the proper numbers that would be required to pvp on a competitive scale.
take for instance, this guy: http://eol.eve-kill.net/?a=kill_related&kll_id=21112182
on paper, the fact that he has a bunch of geddons would make me think he'd be able to roflstomp his opposition. However, he was forced to use his highs for reps, and was wholly unable to react fast enough to his ships being destroyed.
if you had 2 multiboxers - he would've been free to run his geddons properly with neuts and to focus on his dps, while a second multiboxers focused on repairing him(sorta like priests in wow, but more important and less gay) and maybe running some ewar ships(I guess sorta like curses or poisons or w/e. they make hoste ships less effective). This scales nicely as you could have 2-3 guys multiboxing 10+ geddons or whatnot each, with another 1 guy boxing 5-10 guardians or triage carrier, and then another 2-3 guys each boxing a few ewar or tackle ships. It's all abt distributed roles for each person.
so far there hasn't really been much multiboxers cooperation on a larger scale - im trying to change that with my corp.
Ive been playing eve for over 7-8 years now, and know just abt everything there is to know about the game. I'm trying to build a multiboxer corp to run alongside my alliance (the top wspace alliance inthe game).
we have a solid base of non boxers already, and me and a few of the multiboxing guys here have gotten together and worked on some multiboxing stuff for wspace which has worked out pretty solid so far.
I looking forward to running multiboxers with regular non boxed guys, as we could provide some massed dps or alpha, with the non boxed guys either being assigned triggers, helping with ewar, reps, and tackling - all things that are easier for no boxed chars to do over massed boxing,
my apologies on any misspelled stuff, I'm on my iPad ATM on vacation, and typing several paragraphs out while on an iPad isn't ideal :p (fuckin autocorrect)
Ill be back in a few days and can hopefully sort some more stuff out then.
hitme up with a pm or post in here if you're interested. I won't be ingame for quite some time.
moorganti, steel, or mcwrathy(I think he posts here) all know me and are familiar with exactly what I'm talking about ;)
I'll pause here to ask you, how you feel justified making such statements from such a position of ignorance? You came here to ask about EVE, and now you speak with such authority about the game??? I wonder when the last time you played EQ was and watched as a group of 6000 people fought in a truly epic battle where the losses of only one side of the battle equal the value of a car in real-world currency (easy to calculate with a game where you can convert $ into ISK).Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam DeathWalker
Sorry, was that directed at us? I don't think I ever said that I (or anyone else associated with me or my corp) avoided PvP in any way. The point I was making was that you don't always go looking for PvP, it often finds you, and if you are less prepared than they are, you will lose, and you will lose everything you brought to the field. In this game, you NEVER undock ANYTHING you aren't able or willing to lose at the undock, because you never know who is camping you, your corp or will just attack you to see if they can kill you. It doesn't matter where you are. A VERY rare carrier was lost a while ago because the pilot accidentally clicked "accept" on a duel invite instead of "decline". That's all it took, and the crafty pilot was able to exploit all the weaknesses in the carrier pilots ship, and ended up with a bit of help taking him down, right in High-Sec where normally Concord (the police) would shoot you after 2 seconds. No, you are not safe, even in a capital ship with a buttload of tank, and in a zone where you should be assisted by big brother instantly.Quote:
And look who's talking guys who AVOID PvP unless the are sure they can win; the ultimate gankers ....
There is only one server. The very notion of a "PvP Server" screams at the top of its lungs, "CAREBEAR!" (the idea that you should be warned before playing the game you might be attacked, even when there are very few consequences in most games)Quote:
I leveled up on PvP servers is both EQ and WoW, people found me and killed me, and now I kill anyone in 3 seconds.
I think you may have missed the point on this. You MAY very well be more than 50x as "strong" with 50 accounts vs one, but what does 50x stronger really mean in a game with 50,000 players on the same server, many of whom would love to hit the "free isk here" pinyata you would stick out as?Quote:
Clearly there is little advantage to boxing EvE; I am not going to pay for 50X accounts if I am not 50X stronger, at least in theory, then one account.
I'm sorry, none of us knew that, becaus of course as EVERY good guild leader does, you never ever talk about them, give them credit or assign any prestige on anyone but yourself.Quote:
Also you seem to forget in WoW I am GM of a guild that is 1/9th the size of the 9000 members Goons; I doubt I would be playing alone.
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Please, PLEASE play EVE. If you could do anything impressive in this game, I would probably give you a month of PLEX for all of your accounts. (and yes, I will decide the threshold for "impressive", you do not retain the right to declare your mediocrity as awesome.
I will look forward to you turning down the invite to join a truly challenging and deep game where your ability to actually control your characters, and not just your reliance on numbers for safety reigns supreme.
Move on, you probably wouldn't like it ;)
On sz you could spend all night setting up a raid (4 hours) only to have someone train the whole zone on you in the last minute. No one logs into EvE for days straight and does NOTHING to advance their character. You can't LOSE you whole character (fear break in) by having your body someplace you cannot get to. In EvE it seems you can do things without being found while leveling up your strength. In EQ1 that's not really easy a high level just come in and kills you at will.
You have stated that it best to avoid pvp and if its an "isk war" the person who does not fight wins.
Sorry to have to multi post but I cant paste copy and for some reason It seems (just on this site) my keys get stuck. Anyway I just don't think that multi accounts leads to multi power each ship requires to much micro management to be effective, if I have to ground target with each ship that's a joke. One guy says sentry drones will assist a lead ship.
Accept a duel? That never happened on SZ, you log in you die, enjoy your stay.
Whats the most impressive thing any multiboxe has done I EvE?
Is it legal to sell a corp in EvE?
Ground target? Who ever gave you the impression there was GROUND in space? You realize it's a game about space, right? There is no ground targeting.Quote:
if I have to ground target with each ship that's a joke.
No, maybe you missed the part where I mentioned that in NO SPACE at all in this game, are you safe. EVER!Quote:
it seems you can do things without being found while leveling up your strength.
AGAIN, you speak from complete ignorance on an issue you are utterly unprepared to speak about. You have no idea how long people prepare for wars in nullsec, and for other activities that they will almost certainly lose everything they bring. Losing 4 hours of preparation? Get a grip. Go find out how much effort it takes an ALLIANCE of people (thousands) to field several Titans, and hundreds of capital ships, and then look at how often they are lost.Quote:
On sz you could spend all night setting up a raid (4 hours) only to have someone train the whole zone on you in the last minute. No one logs into EvE for days straight and does NOTHING to advance their character. You can't LOSE you whole character (fear break in) by having your body someplace you cannot get to.
I don't really care to measure D's any more about EQ (which I have never played, but so far you havent explained very well) and EVE losses, but I'm confident you can stand to lose a lot more in EVE than any other game I have ever heard of.
Yeah, good. Probably better you don't try, you might not be as "effective" as your MONSTER WoW team.Quote:
I just don't think that multi accounts leads to multi power each ship requires to much micro management to be effective
/sarcasm
You will probably never know, because the ones who are doing great things don't want themselves recognized, that's how dangerous it is to be known in EVE. If they are achieving truly awesome things somewhere in space, they DONT want you to know about it.Quote:
Whats the most impressive thing any multiboxe(r) has done I(n) EvE?
In fact, because of that, the need for anonymity... I REALLY don't think this game is for you hahaha. You would have a bad time. I know I'd find you and kill you for the fun of it lol.
@Sam:
I'll do my best to translate what Mokoi and some of the others are trying to say:
I played EQ since right when Kunark was released. EvE easily has harsher death penalties--In EQ, you could lose a corpse on a Fear or Hate break or deep in a dungeon without a corpse summon. Loss of gear? Check. Loss of XP? Check. You could play around this somewhat by having gear in the bank and leaving most of your money in the bank. With a week to get your corpse it's pretty reasonable to assume that you could get your gear back. In Eve, when your ship blows up you lose everything onboard. Your actual ISK currency is safe, but that's it. If you have to fly say, 30-40% of your total wealth at any given time you're living quite dangerously.
As for multiboxing in Eve, the point is that apart from Wormhole space, if you are multiboxing more than 5 toons someone will notice and you will be hunted mercilessly until you're wiped. It's incredibly unlikely that you'll know you're being tracked and you certainly won't know that a Black Ops fleet is about to ruin your day. The worst part is that they will just wait until they get the numbers to kill you without incurring major losses on their side--And due to the way that the game works they will rally enough people to do this, consistently, every time you log in. You'll be placed on a watch list by every scout in every corporation where you hang out.
The only place that the multiboxing portion is untrue is in Wormhole space--Due to the fact that you can only move a limited number of ships into a system at a time, you're relatively safer. Not safe, but somewhat safer.