Mop Death Knights...

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Originally Posted by ebony

Theres are lot class changes on beta, deathkights but blood are still pending.

Heres a few things to note.

1) if useing pemade the gear is not right there useing old 4.1 pemade char copys still.

2) pvp gear is not fixxed to the new stats we should be getting in 5.0.6

3) if pvp on beta then your going to get oneshooted by buged itams there many wands on beta that are green giveing like 2m spellpower. (therhe gankers on pvp realms that use itams like this just to do this. and yur going to have 89's oneshooting u ike 84s oneshooting 80's

4) blizzard not even looked at pvp so far there just looking at dungons more questing.

5) i nerver seen a beta have so many class changes so fast.


there noway on eath to datamind a class on beta atm not untill level 90 is out and pemades for 90 are open. And we still got the ptr that should have 5.0.6 in the next few weeks if there going to get it out for Aug.

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1. The DK I was playing on is 89 and was a copied character to begin with.
2. Wands don't effect the outcome of class changes
3. DK's on the forums are even complaining about the mechanics of runic power, death runes and a few other things... not just me.
4. Most of the talents in the game are PVP centric so how can you even make that statement? Also making contested world PVP zones opposed to instanced PVP areas. Also added blacklist BG feature among other things.
5. Fast class changes for EVERY class other than death knights. The only class changes since the launch of beta have really been glyphs and a few talents which honestly don't matter since they suck anyway for our purposes.

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I thought everyone knew by now, classes aren't ever set until 2 patches after an expansion is released.

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Class balancing is always done every patch. Thats why there are flavor of the month classes. DK's have been OP at least 1-2 seasons per x-pac (just like rogues and mages, warriors but unlike them have been actually bad at times, though warriors now are bleh) since their release, so I'm not going to just put them on the back burner.

My main point is that if something isn't changed from their current iteration, the micromanagement for playing the class will make it much harder to multi-box efficiently. With cataclysm's difficulty in comparison to older expansions i just don't want DK only players to get frustrated with the game when they aren't facerolling quite as hard.

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Originally Posted by Fat Tire

Just to clarify its 70k sp green wands , my lock has 85k sp with it.

As for the DK I think they will revert the necro strike to its live usage. There are too many things wrong atm with dks and I think once people are allowed to lvl to 90 we will see more tweaks across all classes. Rogues are in pretty bad shape also, but all range classes and a few melee are looking pretty good.


I think the pvp meta game will change completely in mop, I think the 8 sec cd on dispels is such a game changer.

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It will change a bit, but there is SO MUCH CC that the 8 second cooldown can REALLY screw you over if they are chaining well enough. This is the only place I think DK's shine, because of desecrated ground + lichborne.

I hope they do revert it, at the very least.

If dk changes go thru I may dump the dk in my ret-ret-dk team and replace with a warrior on my melee team.

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Originally Posted by Fat Tire

If dk changes go thru I may dump the dk in my ret-ret-dk team and replace with a warrior on my melee team.

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I was thinking the EXACT same thing.

I think you guys are being too negative. Soul Reaper is a huge gain for our DPS and burst. The new rotation will just be:
Soul Reaper --> Howling Blast --> Necrotic Strike --> Frost Strike

Efficient rune usage, AE pressure, great burst. What more do you want? We still have the best array of defensive cooldowns and the easiest time of any melee staying on target.

Ret Paladins are a second to the DKs. I'm not sure how close they'll end up being but the ability to burst like they can plus all the passive healing they get is pretty damn good.

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Originally Posted by Mosg2

I think you guys are being too negative. Soul Reaper is a huge gain for our DPS and burst. The new rotation will just be:
Soul Reaper --> Howling Blast --> Necrotic Strike --> Frost Strike

Efficient rune usage, AE pressure, great burst. What more do you want? We still have the best array of defensive cooldowns and the easiest time of any melee staying on target.

Ret Paladins are a second to the DKs. I'm not sure how close they'll end up being but the ability to burst like they can plus all the passive healing they get is pretty damn good.

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Nah- I dont know how you would keep up that rotation when both soul reaper and necro strike both need death runes and in the current iteration you wont be able to spam HB. You will be gcd capped as its no where near as fluid as it is on live with rune regen. While you will gain insane RP in frost presence you have to wait to use it, if you go unholy presence you are RP starved while your rune regen is great. All dks lose blood tap unless you take it in the talent which is a mistake unless you are blood. Not to mention ams can be dispelled now and the loss of desecrated ground thru necro strike was the main reason I had one in my 3s team, I counted on that aoe snare for my pallies.

Now I only use one dk in my boxing team but I dont like the current version on beta, its really clunky. However, the ease of which they are able to box will make it hard not to play the one in my team.

You are both right. I think there is the misconception that i feel dks are going to be super gimped. That isn't the case at all. They will still be strong I just feel that rets will likely out-shine them at least in both class' current state.

MOSG, death runes are the price of necrotic strike... so that would be replaced with plague strike. Frost strike is also the highest priority as it does the most damage and resets runes/gives rune regen speed. If necrotic strike was still on unholy runes there would be no problem

As far as the runic power situation... Unholy 2h is what most people are using as they have TOO MUCH RP with frost, each autoattack in frost gives them 30 RP which is almost enough for a frost strike... but the GCD is 1.5 seconds. I mean this might end up being the route we go if the rune regen is abysmally slow but we still have good RP generation when we are ON TARGET because of the 15 rp per auto attack. The main problem is that howling blast and such all generate 10 runic power opposed to 20 which severely lowers our runic power usages.

Also unholy presence can no longer have 120 RP so we are limited to a burst of 3 frost strikes.
Dk's have a whole lot of positives though like MOSG says but I disagree with the burst statement.

Pros
Most get out of jail free cards of any class [Lich, desecrated ground, ams, pet sac, icebound, pillar of frost (anti-ele/boom, trinket)
Offensive dispel. (glyphed)
AOE frost damage and slow (not reduced by armor)
Possibility of anti-healing
High burst below 35%
Silence or stun possibilities (2 of each to change drs but reduces the amount of people slowing so you have a higher duration CC chain)
AOE stun (only negative here is you need uptime to make it work)
Quite a bit of self healing
Death Grip

Cons
New system for runes is clunky and the choice between corruption and empowerment isn't really clear as well as rune regen is really low in comparison to live.
Runic power generation outside of frost presence is mediocre
Loss of blood tap which means no on demand silences anymore (really effects us)
Squishy and after icebound they can just fall over to melee
nerfs on a lot of abilities
Don't really feel anti-casterish anymore.
Burst damage significantly reduced above 35% due to runic power limitation and generation reducing our usage of frost strike which in turn reduces our ability to use other abilities due to less runes to use.
Forced into 2h frost as dual-wield does not generate enough RP for stable PVP usage.

Basically we are now a damage dealing class much like a warrior with little usage for anti-healing at the cost it is at. Not as anti-casterish as we once were.

I honestly don't want to discuss stacking rets as i don't want it to get nerfed like some of the things were before launch that we were discussing for cata. If someone wants to do so PM me some contact info.

I do feel that warrior burst damage and CC is superior to dks right now on beta though which would make them more ideal for those of us who are going to be playing 3's.

What ever you do make sure your DKs are undead....

Undead

• Underwater Breathing has been renamed Touch of the Grave: Your attacks and damaging spells have a chance to drain the target, dealing 13,680 Shadow damage and healing you for the same amount.

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Originally Posted by Fat Tire

What ever you do make sure your DKs are undead....

Undead

• Underwater Breathing has been renamed Touch of the Grave: Your attacks and damaging spells have a chance to drain the target, dealing 13,680 Shadow damage and healing you for the same amount.

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dafuq?!

AFK server/faction changing/re-rolling

I doubt that change will make it to live together with will of the forsaken. Previously they said that they wanted to address the retardedly OP human racial as well (can't recall seeing a chance here though).

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Originally Posted by zenga

I doubt that change will make it to live together with will of the forsaken. Previously they said that they wanted to address the retardedly OP human racial as well (can't recall seeing a chance here though).

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Or they could be making one race on each faction OP. Honestly i think if they changed WotF to the same thing as EMFTS it would work just as good as nerfing EMFTS. Regardless If this does go live I will def re-roll.