Theory Crafting: x4 DK + 1

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Originally Posted by Noids

I have lost to a melee cleave team. It was a 2 heals team with 2wars and a frost dk. I could not believe the rate at which my health dropped, even with poh spam. The wars would end each game on 400k damage with the dk on 300. Even the rr hungering cold trick wouldn't work due to ams and blade storm. After the third loss trying a few variations in tactics I switched all dks to blood and didn't see them again.

I recently switched out of virulence and desecration into Blade barrier and hand of doom. This was mainly to get the 1min cool down on strangulate and work with some macros so I can cast strangulate on my focus (healer1) every 5 seconds (on 2dks) and at my target (healer2) every 5 seconds also. I have also built in all of my cool downs into my opening hb spam so I have 10seconds of unccable dps on a healer or caster dps with healers effectively cced.

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Kill the DK for melee cleaves

This is my kill priority list for cleaves.

Dk > rogue > feral > warrior > ret

DKs have rampup time on their defensive cooldowns so its best to gib them from the start.

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Originally Posted by Noids

This was mainly to get the 1min cool down on strangulate and work with some macros so I can cast strangulate on my focus (healer1) every 5 seconds (on 2dks) and at my target (healer2) every 5 seconds also. I have also built in all of my cool downs into my opening hb spam so I have 10seconds of unccable dps on a healer or caster dps with healers effectively cced.

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I like that idea a lot.
It should really help against double-healer teams.

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Originally Posted by Shodokan

Kill the DK for melee cleaves

This is my kill priority list for cleaves.

Dk > rogue > feral > warrior > ret

DKs have rampup time on their defensive cooldowns so its best to gib them from the start.

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I go War > DK > Rogue > Feral > Ret

You can gibbed warriors before they shield wall if you come out hard and fast on them and silence before the shieldwall.

Thinking of trying Scent of Blood a bit.
Two questions...

A) 2/3 Blade Barrier & 3/3 Bladed Armor or 3/3 Blade Barrier and 2/3 Bladed Armor.
B) 3/3 Scent of Blood or 2/3 Scent of Blood & 1/2 On a Pale Horse

I like the 1/2 Pale Horse, as it puts the DK's very close in mounted speed (5% slower) than the Pally, so I can lead with the Pally in BG's and basically run half the map before a DK drops follow.

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Originally Posted by Ualaa

Thinking of trying Scent of Blood a bit.
Two questions...

A) 2/3 Blade Barrier & 3/3 Bladed Armor or 3/3 Blade Barrier and 2/3 Bladed Armor.
B) 3/3 Scent of Blood or 2/3 Scent of Blood & 1/2 On a Pale Horse

I like the 1/2 Pale Horse, as it puts the DK's very close in mounted speed (5% slower) than the Pally, so I can lead with the Pally in BG's and basically run half the map before a DK drops follow.

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Unholy aura makes you move 15% faster as is, counts mounted and does not stack with OPH

I don't believe Unholy Presence (http://www.wowhead.com/spell=48265) increases mounted speed.
The spell effects, show three effects with the movement portion specifically saying Run Speed.
Or if it does, then Pursuit of Justice is calculated in such a way that a Paladin not using Crusader Aura is consistently faster than 0/2 On a Pale Horse + Unholy Presence.

The second question (B), is more a convenience vs effect question.
Scent of Blood is absolutely mechanically stronger in every way.
But similar movement speed is nice in battlegrounds, which is 98% of my PvP experience.

I'm more interested in the first question.

Which is stronger... 2 additional attack power per 180 armor or 2% damage reduction when both Death Runes are on cooldown.
It seems that Howling Blast uses Frost Runes before Death Runes, Necrotic Strike uses Unholy Runes before Death Runes and Obliterate also uses fixed runes before Death Runes... so the 4/6% reduction is up less than I would think it should be.

I've been testing out my new spec with "Scent of Blood". Overall, I like it and I feel it gives me a lot more runic power.

In fact, it seems that I have a bit too much. My frost strikes are going so often that my Necrotic Strike doesn't go and my Unholy Runes are left up for far too long.

After considering the talents again and reviewing many PvP articles and top-end Frost DKs, I decided to try this spec out.


http://www.wowhead.com/talent#jMhhZG...d0ub:Mma0qb0mM


In this spec, I opted NOT to take the "Improve Frost Presence" talent. The only benefit is provides is 4% RP generation is retained and I believe we get a lot more from "Scent of Blood" procs.

I haven't done the math, so correct me if I'm wrong.


Instead, I put the points into "Annihilation" and picked up the Glyph of Obliterate.


I'll test this out tonight and see if it helps making the first kill.


My main strategy is to start dps on a plate-wearing target, then mass-death grip, mass strangulate, switch targets and do Empower Rune Weapon + Obliterate + Hungering Cold + Arcane Torrent on round-robin for the initial kill.

I'm thinking with the above spec the burst from 3 obliterate in a row should kill anything.

What's the general consensus on priority for a Frost DK these days?


At the start of the fight, each DK has 2 death runes, 2 frost runes, and 2 unholy runes.

Should the priority be aimed to get 4 necrotic strikes and 2 howling blasts? Or the other way around, with 2 necrotic strikes and 4 howling blasts? Or 3 of each?

I prioritise howling blast over necrotic strike. Being a ranged spell is so important for early pressure and I actually prioritise frost strike over necrotic strike when in melee to try and get the first kill.

My only other rotation is single target dps which rotated hungering cold and opens with outbreak and empower rune weapon then unloads 3 x obliterates. If I am playing a melee heavy team I will open with the howling blasts then when I get targets in melee will convert to the single target rotation. I often find that switching my target after the initial salvo will quite often overload or confuse the healers to the point that my second target dies without a heal.

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Originally Posted by Noids

I prioritise howling blast over necrotic strike. Being a ranged spell is so important for early pressure and I actually prioritise frost strike over necrotic strike when in melee to try and get the first kill.

My only other rotation is single target dps which rotated hungering cold and opens with outbreak and empower rune weapon then unloads 3 x obliterates. If I am playing a melee heavy team I will open with the howling blasts then when I get targets in melee will convert to the single target rotation. I often find that switching my target after the initial salvo will quite often overload or confuse the healers to the point that my second target dies without a heal.

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What's your spec? I'm asking since I thought the traditional way of spec'ing DK x4 meant that some of the talents that improved Obliterate (Annihiation mainly) are skipped, but maybe I missed something along the way.