Against the rules?

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Originally Posted by Svpernova09

The problem with this is, mostly, the multiboxing community is wrong in their understanding of the rules. Which is why people seem to cry wolf so fast. Blizzard wants to make sure you are there playing the game and not harassing others, past that, they've proven (by not taking action) they really don't care what else goes on. You can achieve similar things with Nostromo software, and I assume the G15 and other similar software. So if you're asking the community if they think having a keymap reset after X seconds from the FIRST press is against the rules, I as a member of the community, respond with a resounding No. Am I an expert on what is allowed and what is not? By no means I am not. But this functionality still requires you be PRESENT at the keyboard and PUSHING BUTTONS to accomplish something.

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Would you have a problem with pushing a button once, having it send the number 1 to WoW, waiting two seconds, and then sending the number 2 to WoW?

I'm not trolling and not trying to start a heated conversation but instead trying to get the common viewpoint on when software intelligence goes too far. If people want to play with delays then more power to them, but that doesn't stop the conversation of whether it's legit or not :)

And I disagree with the multiboxing community being wrong with their interpretation of the rules... if you have any examples I'd love to hear them!

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Originally Posted by warbringer

ISXBoxer cannot be used for botting. That's what ISXWoW and ISXWarden used to be for in combination with say.. OpenBot.
You can use Innerspace + ISXBoxer without any worries.

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I apologize if I was wrong. You can use HKN for botting because you can press one button and have HKN push buttons at predefined times for the next 10 minutes if you want. That fits my definition of botting, though I doubt anyone would truly use HKN as it would likely be way too complicated and there are other options out there.

I was under the impression that you could do similar things with ISBoxer, but I admit I haven't used the program still. I thought it would be able to push one button, and have ISBoxer go through different steps for the next 5 minutes if you set it up to do so.

Botting was definitely a term I shouldn't have introduced into the conversation :) Instead I should have just referenced delays.

I think the point svper is making is that we have exhausted this topic to death. Are you at your computer? Yes. Are you manually controlling your toons? Yes. Therefore it should be ok.

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However, with ISBoxer, you no longer have to think about anything. You can just spam the 3 key as much as you want, and ISBoxer will take care of when the 3 translates into 1 and when the 3 translates into 2 using a clock. If it didn't use a clock then I'd have no issue with it... but isn't that all delays are is disabling something until a predefined amount of time expires?

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What? This is not what a delay is in the context that Blizzard is concerned about. If a "delay" means you push a button for a while and different things might happen each time, then what do you think of /castsequence + /click? It's the same concept.

A delay in the sense that is considered automation is as follows: I press a key. 2 seconds later with no further action, as a result only of my pressing the key 2 seconds prior, something else happens. And hey, why stop there, 2 seconds later it happens again. And then again 2 seconds later. Now, 6 seconds apart, 3 things happened without my touching the keys, and I didn't even need to be at the computer anymore (this specifically is where "1 Key = 1 Action" comes from). ISBoxer does not provide any method of creating a delay.

If you are pressing the buttons to cause instant action at the time of the press (and/or release), and this action happens without any input from the game environment etc, and without otherwise breaking the EULA/ToS, you're not botting.

Past that if you think something you could possibly do might be against the rules, don't do it. From my understanding of the actual rules, and conversations between me and Blizzard, I don't see anything implemented in or configured through ISBoxer as being a problem. In the end everyone has different ideas of what automation means (especially who have no experience with bots) and so there's a lot of different interpretations of the rules, GM posts, etc. Use your own judgment and you'll be fine.

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I thought it would be able to push one button, and have ISBoxer go through different steps for the next 5 minutes if you set it up to do so.

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Oh definitely not, thanks for clearing that up for us :)

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Originally Posted by thefunk

I think the point svper is making is that we have exhausted this topic to death. Are you at your computer? Yes. Are you manually controlling your toons? Yes. Therefore it should be ok.

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That's fine by me, but that also means the community has changed over the past couple of years :) Evilseed was banned for many reasons, but part of his flame war was against using his mouse broadcasting programs that send the mouse cursor to a predefined location on the slave screens (the community thought that was too much automation).

I am glad that I'm getting a warm fuzzy feeling about using these "delays" from the community, as that will help influence my decision to use them, which will make my toons easier to play.

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Originally Posted by Owltoid

Would you have a problem with pushing a button once, having it send the number 1 to WoW, waiting two seconds, and then sending the number 2 to WoW?

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Now you're making stuff up to argue? No, pushing a button once, waiting, and sending another button (or the same) would constitute a delay, delays being against the rules. This is NOT what your original post described. What your original post described (Keymap resetting after X seconds) is NOT a delay. You still have to PUSH or MASH the buttons for an action to happen. The only thing that gets changed during the button mashing is the keys that are sent. it does not send any keys without you telling it to.

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Originally Posted by Owltoid

I'm not trolling and not trying to start a heated conversation but instead trying to get the common viewpoint on when software intelligence goes too far. If people want to play with delays then more power to them, but that doesn't stop the conversation of whether it's legit or not :)

And I disagree with the multiboxing community being wrong with their interpretation of the rules... if you have any examples I'd love to hear them!

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People aren't playing with delays with ISBoxer (If they are, they're doing it outside of IS/ISBoxer. When you start a "Against the rules?" Thread, you're going to get these kinds of responses :_) I understand you have a legitimate concern, but I think that you're thinking more is happening than what actually is. As I said above, there are no programmed delays in the Keymap reset.

An example of the general multiboxing community being wrong in their interpretation is the 1 key to 1 action rule. It's been proven time and time again to not be the case. GMs have confirmed multiple actions in 1 keystrokes are fine. (Kromtor got a GM response about a G15 macro that sends more than 1 key) But I'm not here to debate that in this thread. I'm just trying to explain that ISBoxer is fine, and I don't like fear mongering "AGAINST THE RULEZ" Thread titles.

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Originally Posted by Lax

What? This is not what a delay is in the context that Blizzard is concerned about. If a "delay" means you push a button for a while and different things might happen each time, then what do you think of /castsequence + /click? It's the same concept.

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I'm ok with the /castsequence and /click combination because (1) you can do it inside of WoW (duh :) ) and (2) it's not using an external clock but instead relying on human timing.

I don't want to continue beating a dead horse since I think it's clear that the community is ok with the funcionality. Thanks for all the constructive replies :) I'm really looking forward to ISBoxer!

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Originally Posted by Svpernova09

I'm just trying to explain that ISBoxer is fine, and I don't like fear mongering "AGAINST THE RULEZ" Thread titles.

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You had the same overreaction years ago when I started a thread about removing /follow and thought I was trying to incite the community. Not all threads are fear mongering... sometimes people just like to have a discussion on what is legit and what is a gray area. There was nothing hostile in this thread. Let's all move on :)

My two cents...

Hundreds (or thousands; only Lax has the numbers) use IS Boxer for a multitude of games. To date, to my knowledge no one has been banned for its use in any game.

Use what you're comfortable with, and don't use whatever functions you think might be in a grey area; I don't use all of the functionality of IS Boxer... But even if you consider an area to be grey, no one has been banned or suspended for using it, which says something there.