The nerf bat falls again!

For me what upsets me is that if I want to find a random PuG , GS has made it very hard. Before GS the PuG leader would take a quick look at gear or armory and decided on that, now it is all about over 5k GS to even be considered which on my server I see a LOT of players with 5k and above and so takes all my toons out of the running to get into PuGs.
Yes I could start my own PuG BUT I want to spend an hour or so running a Raid e.g. Ony 10 Man, not the whole evening putting a group together. Spending and hour or two running a Raid was possible before GS.
Let's hope Blizzard bans the GS mod lol

They have an addon now, Under Achiever.
Where any link you make, shows your toon as having that achievement.

Now they need an addon, where GearScore believes you have a 5500 GS or whatever.
Irregardless of the gear you have.

It should not be (and on my server is) a requirement to have a GS far above what you need for the content.
It should be (but is not) that you just need to know the fight and be geared enough for the content.
Pre-Ulduar, when most of the server was fresh to 80, in a mix of quest blue/greens, Naxx 10 was easily doable.
Toons in that level of gear today, have 2500-2800 gear score.
Some idiot on my server wanted to do Naxx 10 as a pug, but was requiring 4500 GS, which is better then full Ulduar 25 gear.

Blizz would be better off with hiding the Gear Score completely.
Or if the player base wants it, having an internal rating like they have for instances in the LFG tool.
With a substantial boost to alts rating, if any toon has done the encounter successfully.
So it measures both your gear and your knowledge of the encounter.
But does not say, geared for any specific raid, but rather yes, this toon can do the raid you're attempting.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ualaa

Now they need an addon, where GearScore believes you have a 5500 GS or whatever.
Irregardless of the gear you have.

---

have a look into an addon called gearscorebreaker. im not sure if its still updated or not but last i heard it does exactly the thing you would want.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by zenga

What's wrong with a 12y old saying that? In the end it comes from a 12y old kid .... and he is probably playing with less worries than most of the adults do. I was warned by others that there are many younger people playing wow. I knew that upon signing up, accept it and deal with it. The least of my worries is what others say/think nor how they play. If a kid has fun using gs then let him have his fun, just don't use it yourself.

Gearscore in the end does what's in it's name: score your gear. If a certain category of players pays too much attention to your gear instead of your abilities, then just don't do business with them. It's like people who only look at a cars horse power to determine if it's any good.

I think my point is that i don't understand why gs seems to make so people upset :P

---

It makes people upset because it's an arbitrary metric to judge you by in totality. Yes, gear is an important part of successful raiding, but as has been said over and over, it's not the only part. Many people (the ones with a clue, I'd say) will take a GS disadvantaged player who doesn't stand in fires or attack mobs while the tank is pulling over that 5k+ GS daily RDF wonder any day.

But, as I said, gear is an important part, so let's look at that part. Even here, the GS most people use isn't enough information. It just sums up ilvl and adds in some gems and calls that good. That's fine if you know that, and good raid leaders will. In other words, they take the information as a first-pass filter, but they realize there is more to gear than ilvl and will actually inspect the player to see what they're wearing.

To give an example, my mage is still using www.wowhead.com/?item=Abyssal Rune. OMG, ilvl 200. Pretty ghetto, right? This trinket is arguably the best arcane mage trinket in the game right now, but my GS gets dinged big time for having it. I've had opportunities to "upgrade" it but I've chosen not to because I know my class and know that that "upgrade" would actually be a downgrade. You think Timmy the GS Commander knows that? Not likely.

So it frustrates people like me that I know my class well enough to realize what a gdlk trinket that is, only to be left of a raid because some moron with a mod doesn't have a clue.

Actually, it doesn't frustrate me at all because a) I rarely pug, and b) when I do, I use the trinket as my own idiot filter. I don't want to raid with a RL that doesn't know good gear when they see it. It doesn't bode well for the success of the raid, in my experience. I was just explaining why it frustrates others. :)

Ualaa hit it on the head. When a new expansion comes out guilds run into the first level of raids in blues and heroic gear. They clear it after banging their head against the wall. They push through it, get the gear from that instance and are ready for the next. Fast forward to the third level of instances of the expansion and now a brand new 80 needs a 4k+ GS to go into Naxx??? Yes the same place people cleared in blues/heroics/possible greens BEFORE it was nerfed, yet now that its been nerfed you are going to require the person has been there a few times to get in. Its a friggin catch 20-20. You are told on your newly dinged 80 that you can only go if you have been before. How in the hell is that supposed to work?

My friends started doing a little test of their skills. They tossed on the exact same blues/heroics they had when we started doing Naxx (we were one of the first 5 guilds of our faction to enter Naxx) and jumped into Ulduar. They fully cleared. Was it as easy as it was when they had all the Naxx/Ulduar gear. No. But they did clear it. Just another case showing skill is a lot more important than the cumulative ilvl of your gear.

Don't get me wrong. I'm all for a gear grind to show a separation to show where/what you are working on. But, it needs to be that there is a REAL requirement for the gear grind. Some random person I probably have only seen around Dalaran telling me I can't go to an instance because some addon says my gear isn't good enough is NOT a good reason. Yes there are times when it is probably right (a 25k hp tank isn't going to do well in ICC25), but I'm willing to bet 90% of the time people are trying to get into the level of content they are ready for.

As for the 12 yr old comment, that was not aimed to piss of the little kids. Just a stereotype that obviously got my point through.

i think you guys are all missing the point.

of course you don't need to pull 4kdps to clear Naxx or Heroics.
of course GS is not a real measure of skill, move-out-of-the-fireness, or even gear (as the trinket example shows)

having a raid / heroic full of 4kdps and a 50khp+ tank will be quicker than 2kdps and less of a hassle.
it's got nothing to do with fairness, or not knowing the game, it's got only to do with 5 emblems in 15min > 5 emblems in 40min.

It's unfortunate, but it's the simple truth.

the GS is another quick-and-dirty way of assessing someone without spending much time.
no they don't take the low gs people, because they know a high gs toon will be available in 5 seconds..
it's their PUG, their rules.. if you don't like their rules, i'm afraid your only solution is to build your own PUG :(


PS: i don't mean to be harsh, i'm suffering from the GS thing as well, but it much less frustrating when you understand the real reasons why you get rejected.

Gearscroe is a measure of your potential, not your skill. Far too often I see people complaining that they can't get in to things because they don't meet some arbitrary gear score. Look, I feel for the undergeared skillful player as much as anyone, but bottom line, if you're decked out in all ilvl200 stuff, youre not going to perform beyond the best of the best as they were in naxx.

That said, I also have a particular impatience with people who can't be bothered to up their GS from daily dungeons. It only takes a week or two to get up to ICC appropriate numbers, and bottom line, if you don't put forth the effort to gem/enchant your gear, I don't think you're going to have put in the effort to know your class or the fights well enough to contribute up to expectations.

I wonder. If they added an option to "only queue with people over X gearscore" to the LFD tool, would those people who selected that option then bitch and complain about slow queues while the mere mortals had a good time with fast queues?

Hmm...

Since I'm part of "all", I'll respond and say I think you are missing my point. :)

Yes, I realize its their pug and they can do what they want. And I'm actually fine with that, as I explained in my post.

The point I think *you* are missing is that this type of elitism, beyond just being distasteful in general, eventually leads to a situation that does matter. Eventually, everybody (that cares about pugging) will be a slave to GS because, let's face it, most people just follow the leader and don't think much for themselves. Eventually, you won't be able to gear to your choice unless you don't like raiding or have friends/a guild. Do you think that's healthy for the game? I don't.

I'm not saying anything other than it sucks. That's all.

Anyway, I'm gonna bail out on the derail here, think I've made my point as well as I can anyway. Cheers.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Zub

i think you guys are all missing the point.

of course you don't need to pull 4kdps to clear Naxx or Heroics.
of course GS is not a real measure of skill, move-out-of-the-fireness, or even gear (as the trinket example shows)

having a raid / heroic full of 4kdps and a 50khp+ tank will be quicker than 2kdps and less of a hassle.
it's got nothing to do with fairness, or not knowing the game, it's got only to do with 5 emblems in 15min > 5 emblems in 40min.

It's unfortunate, but it's the simple truth.

the GS is another quick-and-dirty way of assessing someone without spending much time.
no they don't take the low gs people, because they know a high gs toon will be available in 5 seconds..
it's their PUG, their rules.. if you don't like their rules, i'm afraid your only solution is to build your own PUG :(


PS: i don't mean to be harsh, i'm suffering from the GS thing as well, but it much less frustrating when you understand the real reasons why you get rejected.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Ughmahedhurtz

I wonder. If they added an option to "only queue with people over X gearscore" to the LFD tool, would those people who selected that option then bitch and complain about slow queues while the mere mortals had a good time with fast queues?

Hmm...

---

it would be funny because you'd get alot of people with wrong high iLevel items. e.g. a warrior with a i999 cloth chest piece or something.