DK - super useless tank

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Originally Posted by 'magwo',index.php?page=Thread&postID=158177#post15 8177

I have been running heroics a lot lately.. sometimes with DKs.. and.. running with a DK is a study in fail.
Not only do they get 2-shotted by meelee bosses within milliseconds - their pulling techiques with death grip messes up a lot of group mechanics. I find myself pulling aggro quite often.


Just now I ran heroic Drak with a 27k hp DK, uncrittable.. 3-4 wipes.. it's pretty hopeless.
And.. to put this in contrast.. I've successfully run this with 21k hp paladins in blues, EASY.



IMO it seems like DK needs a dmg nerf and a tanking buff.. cause at the moment, they are so bad.

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Sorry but your logic is completely broken and you're whining like a 2 year old. You say the DK had 27k HP and was uncrittable but he got 2 shotted by a melee boss? LOL. You realize the mechanics of armor, parry, dodge, crit, etc, don't actually change between classes, right? The only difference between the mitigation of a paladin and the mitigation of a DK is the shield block skill. DK will have comparable armor without a shield due to frost presence, pally will be able to block but the DK will have enough parry% to make up for the lost block% - thats how it works. Your story is either a flat out lie or is missing a lot of details.

Sorry to come off as a prick but your post was pretty silly.

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Originally Posted by 'Naysayer',index.php?page=Thread&postID=158212#pos t158212

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Originally Posted by 'algol',index.php?page=Thread&postID=158188#post15 8188

It's not so much a matter of gear, as a matter of people having easy access to a high level DK, which they can then attempt to tank with while having no clue how tanking or even necessarily melee works. Therefore they tend to suck at tanking.

The class still needs work (irregular mitigation for a big one), but a good player can tank with one just fine.

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If you're not gearing for tanking, then people will make posts like this thread about you. The right gear is pretty much a priority.

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It's certainly both a priority and an indicator of baseline competence. But you're calling out one symptom - of several - not the problem.

I've seen some very good things from my short time PUGing with DKs and with the new changes I will make two folders of WoW. One folder for a paladin tank and 4 shaman and the other folder for a DK tank and 4 shaman. That way I can switch back and forth based on what tank is best for a certain boss or dungeon. With that said, I think its pretty hard to replace paladins Lay on Hands... It's a very nice OOPS button and I just don't think DKs have anything that compares.

been running instances with my DK friend. He has 24k hp, and is almost uncrittable (for heroics). Ran non-heroic Halls of Lightning yesterday with him ~9-10 times in 3 hours. Only have to stop to healing him 1 time during every boss fight. DK tanks are insane if you ask me.

Even after 80 levels i see so much horrible people play this game and the worst experience you can have is to pug with a crappy tank.

But people dont know crap about it and it doesnt make sense to me WHY they wont read a guide that would improve his tanking ALOT!

A real life friend of me plays retadin and he plays with a /castrandom judgement of whatever/divine storm/Hammer of wrath/crusader strike.

Now he hammers this buttong and HoJ/arcane torrent when he needs to stop casting, he might drop a repentance if the mob/player is out of range.

Everytime a item with str,agi,critt,hit or speed drop he ask ME if its better for him, kinda funny since reading a guide would take him 10 mins and improve SO much!

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Originally Posted by 'Zal',index.php?page=Thread&postID=158297#post1582 97

been running instances with my DK friend. He has 24k hp, and is almost uncrittable (for heroics).

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*snip*


There is no uncrittable target for heroics, and non-heroics. its all the same. 540 Defense to be uncrittable. When a few of us in TGO hit 80 we were running with an unholy DK tank that WAS crittable. We never had a problem because he was running 24k HP, and high parry / dodge. Yeah he was hard to heal somteimes. but it was a rare occasion he would get instagibbed by a boss.

DK tanks are built around short cool downs. If you're running with a DK that doesn't realize how to effectivly manage his cooldowns, then thats something he needs to learn. And for the record, Deathgrip is a FINE way to pull. If you're pulling aggro on a mob that gets Deathgripped, there is one of 2 things going wrong. You're blowing shit up way too early (lrn2watchyourthreat), or he isn't laying down Death and Decay or Pestilence every chance he gets (l2aoetank).

There are a number of factors in tanking with any class, and bottom line, if you haven't been familiarizing yourself with them from the beginning, you're going to hit a learning curve as you figure out how everything works. DKs in particular face the problem that they are excellent DDs from 55-80, and their most efficient leveling methodology involves not tanking, but kicking the crap out of whatever they're fighting as fast as they can. So of course, you get people to 80, realize their is a shortage of tanks, and hop on the band wagon having no idea what they are doing.

Dems da breaks.

I remember when Paladin's were in the same situation. T4 and most of T5 was terrible for prot paladins. They were very hard to heal and ran out of mana very quickly (because small mana pools from gear that lacked any Int) when AoE tanking. By the Time T6 + ZA gear came out Pld's pwnd. Right now in heroic Naxx we use DK's for dps and OT's. To say that DK's are useless, just means they are useless to you atm. Because I if you ever played one you could see how with the right gear they would be overpowered.

My favorite DK WAS harder to heal at first because he would take 0 damage for 2min then all of the sudden be at 22% health. But with upgrades in gear he has 35k raid buffed and still isn't uncritable, but still he is never 2 shot'd unless you are talking about Patchwork, even then its not his fault. Most I have ever seen him crit for is 8k in heroics that still leaves him unbuffed with 20k health.

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Originally Posted by 'Svpernova09',index.php?page=Thread&postID=158197# post158197

Run with better DKs imo. Theres 3 really good DK tanks on Madoran and they're all using 2H and unholy. Remember just like any other tank they have to get defense capped. Don't say a class is useless when you're running with craptastic people playing those classes.

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QFT

Im currently running with my DK and I seem to be doing fine. Sure its a small PITA not having a nice block or what not but its really NBD

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Originally Posted by 'Hachoo',index.php?page=Thread&postID=158239#post1 58239

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Originally Posted by 'magwo',index.php?page=Thread&postID=158177#post15 8177

I have been running heroics a lot lately.. sometimes with DKs.. and.. running with a DK is a study in fail.
Not only do they get 2-shotted by meelee bosses within milliseconds - their pulling techiques with death grip messes up a lot of group mechanics. I find myself pulling aggro quite often.


Just now I ran heroic Drak with a 27k hp DK, uncrittable.. 3-4 wipes.. it's pretty hopeless.
And.. to put this in contrast.. I've successfully run this with 21k hp paladins in blues, EASY.



IMO it seems like DK needs a dmg nerf and a tanking buff.. cause at the moment, they are so bad.

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Sorry but your logic is completely broken and you're whining like a 2 year old. You say the DK had 27k HP and was uncrittable but he got 2 shotted by a melee boss? LOL. You realize the mechanics of armor, parry, dodge, crit, etc, don't actually change between classes, right? The only difference between the mitigation of a paladin and the mitigation of a DK is the shield block skill. DK will have comparable armor without a shield due to frost presence, pally will be able to block but the DK will have enough parry% to make up for the lost block% - thats how it works. Your story is either a flat out lie or is missing a lot of details.

Sorry to come off as a prick but your post was pretty silly.

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LOL I love you