Is 2 man slower lvling than 3,4, or 5 man?

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Originally Posted by 'Sam DeathWalker',index.php?page=Thread&postID=150252#p ost150252

Oh and was there actually anything incorrect about my statement that 5 is better then two? Given you generate 5/2's the mana with 5 as you do with 2, which allows you to kill 5/2's the mobs with 5 as you do with 2, in the same time span, thus given the group exp bonus with 5 is greater then with two you should, assumming unlimited mobs, level faster with 5. Quests I don't know about much admittadly but seems if its a "go from point A to point B" type quest that it can be done with 5 just as fast as with 2 .... given autofollow.

Group Exp bonus with 5 is 1.4 vs. 1.0 with 2. Its silly to assume you will not level faster with 5, given each kill gives you 140pecent the exp you would get with 2.

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I really don't know how mana regenerate = dps. The more +spell you have the faster you can kill mobs. My +spell on my sham are on average 950 and the mana regenerate is about 50, and i can 1/2 shot anything. All mana does is that you have less down time, not that you can kill the mob faster.

Leveling 1 person is the fastest we all know that. Leveling 2 is probably a little faster then lvl 3 (cause of group xp). etc...

Group xp kicks in when you have 3 or more people in your group. Having more then 5 people in your group, and you are not in a raid instance, then you get negative group xp for being in a raid. I don't know the percentage of group xp but i will take your word that it is 1.4 times the mob xp. The reason why blizzard reduces xp in groups is because if they didn't people would group up and just farm a whole area being close enough so everyone gets the xp per kill. The reason they added the group xp is because the xp would be so low that grouping with more then 2 people will kill the xp.

Lets say mob xxx gives a person 1,000 xp
1 player = 1,000 xp
2 players = 500 xp each
3 players = 467 xp each (you get a total of 1,400 xp for group)
4 players = 350 xp each (you get a total of 1,400 xp for group)
5 players = 280 xp each (you get a total of 1,400 xp for group)
Anything more then 5 players you get like 10 xp cause of the stupid negative raid bonus

So the more people you have in your group the less xp you get... Sam you would have known this if you didn't start right out boxing.

I was responding to Moorea saying I am not qualified to answer the question .....

To get back to the point without wasting my valuable time defending off topic personal attacks:

Spells (ya I am considering shaman) do damage, spells need mana. Lets say you regen 1 mana per minute and do 1 damage per mana and get 1 exp per damage (to make it very simple).

1 Toon: 1 exp per minute = 1
2 Toon: 1/2 2 exp per mintue = 1 again
3 Toon: 1/3 3 exp per minute (plus group bonus) = 1 plus
4 Toon: 1/4 4 exp per minute (plus more group bonus) = 1 plus
5 Toon: 1/5 5 exp per mintue (plus the most group bonus of 1.4) = 1.4!!!!!!!

The amount of exp (given unlimited mobs) you get is directly proportional to the amount of mana you generate. So given unlimited mobs, and classes that do all their dps with mana then 5 will level 1.4 times faster then 2, assuming they are grouped together.

And this is a multibox forum not a wow only forum. But the theory of mana regen = exp is common to both games. Also mellee classes have unlimited mana basically as their dps is not limited to mana so they also level 1.4 times as fast in a 5 man group as a 1 person solo, assuming unlimited mobs and perfect placement for max dps each battle.

Ya over 5 forget it, untill you get to 10. So optimal numbers are 5, 10, 15, 20 etc.

Of course this is pure theory, you don't have unlimited mobs at your feet in practice, but still 1.4 times as fast is a LOT faster.

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Originally Posted by 'Sam DeathWalker',index.php?page=Thread&postID=150404#p ost150404

1 Toon: 1 exp per minute = 1
2 Toon: 1/2 2 exp per mintue = 1 again
3 Toon: 1/3 3 exp per minute (plus group bonus) = 1 plus
4 Toon: 1/4 4 exp per minute (plus more group bonus) = 1 plus
5 Toon: 1/5 5 exp per mintue (plus the most group bonus of 1.4) = 1.4!!!!!!!

The amount of exp (given unlimited mobs) you get is directly proportional to the amount of mana you generate. So given unlimited mobs, and classes that do all their dps with mana then 5 will level 1.4 times faster then 2, assuming they are grouped together.

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From wowwiki which i think is an accurate spot

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The following is after very limited testing. The formulae here are best guess.
Assuming everyone in the group is the same level
XP = MXP/numberOfMembers * modifier.

Modifiers:
1 person group = 1.0
2 person group = 1.0
3 person group = 1.166
4 person group = 1.3
5 person group = 1.4

Example:
1 person = 100xp
2 people = 50xp each.
3 people = ~39xp each.
4 people = ~33xp each.
5 people = ~28xp each.

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So how is 28 > 100???


Edit:
I am not attacking you... I just don't see how you are saying lvling 5 tons is faster then lvl 1 toon.

Because with 5 people you can kill FIVE mobs in the time it takes one person to kill ONE mob.

Because you regen 5 X the mana.

You are not considering that you are able to kill 5 times the mobs in the same time period, BECAUSE you regen 5 X the mana.

i seriously hope no 5-boxer's killing one mob at a time...

Sam, saving mana is a big deal for having a large group. You do save mana. It's NOT a linear progression, though. If it takes 6 lightning bolts to kill a mob you may have times where you shot out 2 sets of 5 LBs before the mob died, thereby wasting 4 LBs. In this case, you'd only save 3x the mana, not 5x. There also comes a point where you can almost chain pull without going out of mana in some cases, especially if you spec for the mana saving talents and keep a mana tide nearby. This applies also to a single boxer. The strength of a 5 man group over 2 is probably more in pure killing speed due to raw damage output than to mana issues.

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Originally Posted by 'Sam DeathWalker',index.php?page=Thread&postID=150404#p ost150404

And this is a multibox forum not a wow only forum. But the theory of mana regen = exp is common to both games. Also mellee classes have unlimited mana basically as their dps is not limited to mana so they also level 1.4 times as fast in a 5 man group as a 1 person solo, assuming unlimited mobs and perfect placement for max dps each battle.

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I agree this is not just a wow only forum. But the original post was specifically asking:

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I am dual boxing a ret pally (main t6 gear) and a elemental shammy.

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I played EQ, and I'm sure not as much as you did. But comparing exp gains and killing mobs for exp in WoW vs EQ is comparing apples and oranges.

EQ was a LOT harderd to solo a single mob, let alone multiples. It took damn near forever to kill anything.
In WoW you can pretty much solo any even level mob with any class with little to no problems, and do it farily quickly.

So a formula that worked for EQ can't be easily applied to WoW.

As someone stated above, you were far less likely to waste mana in EQ by casting on a dead mob.
You could get up and make lunch in the ammount of time it took to cast anything in that game, and still come back with enough time to cancel the casting. :P

You are all correct. XP/hr and mana are inter related.

Leveling at it's purest form is based on XP/hr.

The hr part is fixed; nothing you can do about that (well, unless you're boxing at near the speed of light, but let's not get into that)

The XP part has a TON of variables going into it:
1. RAF: triple mob XP, triple quest turn-in value AND gifted levels

2. XP value of the mob per toon (which itself is related to mob level compared to toon level, elite mob or not, group size, rested or not)

3. Time to kill a single mob (related to group size, gear, spec but not affected by mana pool or regen unless you actually run OOM during a fight and have to wait for it to regen to finish off the mob... heaven help you if that's the case)

4. Time BETWEEN killing mobs (this is usually a big one: moving from mob to mob, eating/drinking, healing, looking at map, walking back out of instance, resetting instance etc, accepting turning in quests).

5. Time spent waiting for other toons in the group to gather quest items.

Group size decreases all of #2-4 and increases #5. The question is, which does it decrease MORE?

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Originally Posted by 'uberhoser',index.php?page=Thread&postID=150192#po st150192

I am a sad panda. I am dual boxing a ret pally (main t6 gear) and a elemental shammy. And right now it seems that it is slow going. True, I have finished BT and almost done HF (For the rep needed for mah CHOPPA), but I am about ready to tear my eyeballs out. A prot warrior is ahead of me for goodness sake :P. I thought you were supposed to get a bonus of some sort if you were in a party? ?(

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Lets look at the problem from a different perspective.

For the "PLAYER" to get a maximum level toon in WOW, a single toon will get there first. Period, end of discussion. Well, not quite, because this assumes that the solo player has the ability, skills and equipment, to make steady progress through the game, which in WOW is pretty much a given.

However, lets assume that a PLAYER wants ten total toons at maxumum level. Leveling each, one at a time would be the fastest for each TOON, but the player would spend far more time at the keyboard by the time he completed his ten. This is due prmarily to the travel time to do quests, and most WOW questing involve quite a bit of travel time. A group of five can travel from quest spot to turn in spot in exactly the same amount of time that the solo character can, so for this part of the play experience, five solo characters would consume five times the amount of time that the 5x group would. The group bonus experience for three or more toons actually more than makes up for the percieved decreased experience, due to the sharing, although it will SEEM like its taking longer for the group to level, as a solo toon shoots by them.

For this ten toon example, player A plays ten toons solo, each to maximum level. He finishes his first toon, gloating because player B with his five group is still only three fourths done, and starts his second toon. By the time player A gets his second toon about have way, player B finishes all five, and starts his second group. End result, player B has ten toons at maximum level, while player A is just finishing his third, and still has seven to go.

The above example assumes no magic bullet, like RAF, which tilts the odds so far in favor of the five box group that it isn't even a contest anymore. Does this make it any easier to understand? Yeah, the solo player will finish his character sooner, but he'll only have the one, while the multiboxer will have whatever number of characters, up to five, that he chose to play, and will be only slightly behind in finish time.

If you use castsequence X,,,, ,X,,,

You won't waste mana. Although you have to press the nuke button more times.

Ya there are a ton of factors to consider but as pointed out at the end of the day (lol thats from that level 80 guy video) one guy has 5 level 80 and the other 2 level 80.

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"It took damn near forever to kill anything."

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Ya thats why I kinda like having 13 wizards.