New multibox program called clickboxer!

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So, given these facts, my questions are as follows:
1) Is reading WoW's memory bannable? According to Lax, it is only bannable when it has to do with packet sniffing and/or datamining. (I'll keep my personal opinion to myself)
2) Is making dynamic decisions (based on memory) about the location of a UI action button (in order to click it) bannable?
3) Is InnerSpace, as a platform (and by association to some known-naughty scripts) bannable? That is, will users who do NOT use the naughty scripts but DO use the InnerSpace platform be banned thanks to nefarious folks?

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1. Also, that is not what I said. What I was trying to explain to you is that Inner Space does not read WoW's game memory. The only part of it that Inner Space interfaces with or reads, is the part that interfaces with Windows or DirectX, and that is because Inner Space is a layer between the game, and Windows. I never said it is "only bannable" in x case, what I was responding to was the quoted section of the ToS, which does not apply to Inner Space. The section you would want to be quoting is section 4.
2. There are no dynamic decisions made in ClickBoxer or Repeater.

PLEASE don't put words like these in my mouth when posting on the WoW forums, and PLEASE at least read the source code before making claims about what the software you're posting about actually does. They are open source for a good reason!

Sorry, Lax. I just got back from my lunch with my workgroup.

You want me to read the source code of both ClickBoxer and InnerSpace (since they both work together) in order to form an opinion or concern? Sorry if I sound a bit odd, but I find that rather humorous -- does everyone need to understand code/scripting languages in order to have or dispell a concern that a product will/won't get them banned? It's irrelevant that I can indeed read code, it's just funny that it would be OK to insinuate that people can't have legitimate concerns unless they read and understand every single line of code. You can also see why it would be logical, if one has concerns about a product's potential to get them banned, why they would hesitate to try it to find out.

I wouldn't I apologize if I made mistakes in my interpretation of the locked thread, but I think everyone will agree with me that the original ClickBoxer thread is not exactly easy to read. You'll notice that I also quoted your full statement regarding the ToU section along with my synopsis, so if I have misinterpreted you, there is still the full quoted text to be read and reinterpreted above.

As for my post in the CS forum, I've updated as I go and I think it would be awesome if you'd like to fix any mistakes I've made. If you don't have a world of warcraft account that can post on the official US forums, I'd be happy to directly copy/paste any statement you'd like to make if you just want to post it in this thread. I started the thread purely to end a debate of opinions and so we can put the disagreements to rest -- whether or not my opinion is right or wrong is irrelevant and I've tried to keep any bias out of it.

Like I said in my original post, any expert in ClickBoxer is welcome to add their thoughts and/or definitions to the thread, and to correct my limited knowledge as well. As the developer/owner you'd be the ideal person to drive the thread, since it's in the best interest of your product to get a solid confirmation on whether or not your interfacing and input methods are kosher with the game rules.

My interests are solely for the account safety of the community, so my knowledge of the product, development, and design is limited. You can't argue, though, that it's new ground to implement a "click replicator" and that it largely hasn't been proven or disproven by the GMs. So it's my interest to get that solidarity -- whether it's yes or no.

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Originally Posted by 'Vyndree',index.php?page=Thread&postID=138883#post 138883

Sorry, Lax. I just got back from my lunch with my workgroup.

You want me to read the source code of both ClickBoxer and InnerSpace (since they both work together) in order to form an opinion? I apologize if I made mistakes in my interpretation of the locked thread, but I think everyone will agree with me that the original ClickBoxer thread is not exactly easy to read. You'll notice that I also quoted your full statement regarding the ToU section along with my synopsis, so if I have misinterpreted you, there is still the full quoted text to be read and reinterpreted above.

As for my post in the CS forum, I've updated as I go and I think it would be awesome if you'd like to fix any mistakes I've made. If you don't have a world of warcraft account that can post on the official US forums, I'd be happy to directly copy/paste any statement you'd like to make if you just want to post it in this thread. I started the thread purely to end a debate of opinions and so we can put the disagreements to rest -- whether or not my opinion is right or wrong is irrelevant and I've tried to keep any bias out of it.

Like I said in my original post, any expert in ClickBoxer is welcome to add their thoughts and/or definitions to the thread, and to correct my limited knowledge as well. As the developer/owner you'd be the ideal person to drive the thread, since it's in the best interest of your product to get a solid confirmation on whether or not your interfacing and input methods are kosher with the game rules.

My interests are solely for the account safety of the community, so my knowledge of the product, development, and design is limited. You can't argue, though, that it's new ground to implement a "click replicator" and that it largely hasn't been proven or disproven by the GMs. So it's my interest to get that solidarity -- whether it's yes or no.

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I have World of Warcraft accounts that CAN post, however I do not feel that my posting on the WoW forums would add to the value of the thread. Just as we see here on dual-boxing.com, there would be people responding who will voice their opinion of me, and the conversation would degrade into uselessness instead of an objective look at the matters at hand. I would like to post a thread like that, but there are reasons that I simply cannot describe to you at this time, so I'm sorry for that at the moment. I agree that a response from Blizzard would settle the score, and I do understand your motive in posting the thread, and I do not disagree with that.

The problem is that as it stands, the thread began with a misinterpretation of the video I made and audible brought up here. The portion you see me completing the quests, I first switched to each window and opened the quest window -- I'm told that an in-game macro can be used, probably in conjunction with assist, to do that quicker, but that's beside the point -- and then hit my repeater toggle (I bound it to the MR button on my G15). Moving the mouse on the main screen and then clicking at the desired position, caused the same actions to be replicated on the background windows -- the way this works is no different than replicating key presses, it's just done with mouse positioning and clicking instead. Another press of my repeater toggle key, and replication stops.

The clicks on the ClickBoxer window press keys, for assist, melee attack, stomp, and so on. The same thing is also done in portions of the video with binds. In this case, I was binding G15 through G18 for e.g. my round robin stomp, follow, assist, and lightning bolt. The ClickBoxer window as Suvega described on the thread is overlayed on the game and skinned to look similar to WoW, and it can be interacted with (similar to how you might interact with X-Fire, for people who use that).

I'm not suggesting that you should or could read the source code to Inner Space. What I am suggesting is that the source code to ClickBoxer reveals the essentials to how it works. The ClickBoxer layout used in the video is shown here: http://www.lavishsoft.com/wiki/index...Boxer#Layout_2 -- there is nothing else to ClickBoxer, that's all the code to it. For example:

Code:

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          <button name='atk 2'>
            <X>250</X>
            <Y>2</Y>
            <Width>48</Width>
            <Height>16</Height>
            <Text>atk 2</Text>
            <OnLeftClick>
              <![CDATA[
            relay "all other" press 2
          ]]>
            </OnLeftClick>
          </button>

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This defines a button on the interface, and when clicked it will perform: relay "all other" press 2
I think what that will do is pretty clear without explanation, but if not, it will relay to all of the other windows, to press 2.

Same for Repeater, which is also open source. http://www.lavishsoft.com/wiki/index.php/IS:Repeater -- the download contains only an .iss file that can be opened with any text editor. The code is not incredibly complex, it contains comments, and should be relatively easy for people to follow even without programming experience. The nuts and bolts of it is simply an event that Inner Space fires when you press a button, including mouse buttons. When the event fires that you pressed or released a button, the same relay "all other" press <key> is used (or -release). Mouse clicks have a slightly different syntax, but is still essentially the same. The difference for mouse is that the current X,Y position of the cursor is also passed along. Frankly, I'm amazed that mouse replication is a new concept, and as it is still 1 key to 1 action, I would be surprised if it is disallowed.

And while your questions are fine, I suspect that "making dynamic decisions" would not be allowed, and that "reading WoW's memory" with respect to game data as opposed to its interaction with Windows is not allowed (note that running World of Warcraft in Cedega or Wine on Linux is allowed, and does not read anything different than Inner Space).

The problem I do have is that people reading that thread now have the false impression that ClickBoxer does these things because you said it did. I just feel it was a slight bit irresponsible to assume that there was any dynamic decision making based on WoW memory going on, and to perpetuate that on the WoW forums without being sure of it. But like I said, I believe that you were well-intentioned by attempting to get a response, it's just that your post kind of begs for a negative response from a blue or green poster who might respond based on what you said, rather than the substance of the application.

Wow, this thread really kicked off.. that was not my intention at all.

I got so curious that i fired up this little script ( as it is ) and i have to say. Its incredibly easy to use.

Basically you need some ability to open up an .xml file in an editor. And read.
Setting up the file"program" for a class spesific setup is really easy. I probably did everything in 5 minutes.
Now if i could make a couple of macros accepting quests aswell, then it'd be nice:)
Lua code is out there.

You suddenly have all the abilities ready on a button in front of you. one holy priest in your group just for healing, no problem, each of his spells have their own button for whatever target. Etc..

This was just my initial test from 1-5 with 2 warriors. I'm truly impressed and i'll gear up 5 toons this weekend when i dont have an exam to read for.

I'll keep you posted.

One note though, IF innerspace wasnt legal and you would be banned for using it. Shouldnt scan.dll react on it upon startup? There is no "hiding" or protection active in InnerSpace.

The GM's have repeatedly said that as long as ONE hardware action equals ONE hardware action in each client it is 100% legitimate. The ONLY question I had from the begining of any of these IS threads is the question: Will Innerspace get you banned due to it's affiliation with known botting applications? Which has been answered by several members of the community as a resounding NO however I'll personally hold off until the new product (Cerebus?) releases and will only switch to that if KeyClone doesn't add Linked Round Robin clusters...

The problem comes with the general rule that "if you can do this with standard hardware, it's OK" (as per discussions on the G15 and other nonstandard hardware).

The same thing goes for multiboxing.

The problem is, there is no precedent for non-relative hardware movements using the mouse on a full hardware rig. That's why, while I can tell you the intentions of the ClickBoxing XML you've posted seem innocent but what's innocent to me is not always a shared opinion with Blizzard.

Round Robin, Video Swapping -- those are all emulations of staggered castsequences and KVMs. But there's no real way for me, using hardware, to reliably say "I want to go to this x,y coordinate" using a mouse multiplexer.

For example, I used to be under the impression that, as long as a human is holding down a button, it's OK to have that button repeat indefinitely as long as the human continues holding it down. This is actually an incorrect assumption -- and while my intentions were innocent (i.e. A human is still behind the keys, holding down the button) Blizzard doesn't share my opinion. That's fine, I just won't do it.

So, while I understand that ClickBoxing in particular has no nefarious intentions, that doesn't mean that it's not against the rules as Blizzard interprets them.

It's a shame that you can't participate in the thread (as I most certainly feel you know the most about the specific nuances of your product). Many people utilize "forum alts" that don't match their normal character names/aliases for this very purpose and I certainly wouldn't object to that either if that option is available to you. I'll likely continue bumping the thread as necessary over the course of the next few days and see if we can spur some blues to respond. I've had positive conversations with the folks in the CS forum in the past, so hopefully that will help get us an actual response.

I don't BELIEVE mouse replication will be an issue, but if it is, then it can simply be removed from the Repeater script. It's really only useful for clicking in-game dialogs, and only when they are in the same position in all windows. It's not reliable for clicking on NPCs for example because the NPC will be in a slightly different position in each screen. And I believe you can make in-game macros to do most of the in-game dialog clicking, so beyond reducing the number of binds you'd need to make, it does not provide a significant advantage anyway (although I'm sure there are cases I havent thought of).

But yeah, I agree with you on the majority of your points, and obviously it is up to them whether it is okay or not to replicate the mouse in this way.

Correct, for reference I believe the command for dialog clicking is /script SelectGossipOption(#), where # = the numeric position of the option you would like to click

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Originally Posted by 'audible',index.php?page=Thread&postID=138736#post 138736

whoah, so i read the other thread, alot of feelings involved there.

ISXWarden isnt readily available to my knowledge. It supposedly hasnt been available for nearly 4-5 months now.

I got in touch with Lax and he seems like a very helpful guy. If I get banned for it, well then i'll blame Lax for advocating a "safe" program.
But yeah, Innerspace _is_ known as a platform which has grown a few bots in their user base. Question remains if the platform itself is bad or the plugins for it...
In the end its wether you did botting or not that matters. People get banned for racial slurs or inappropriate behaviour.

I'll give this a go and try. After all XML is easy.
If i'm not happy then keyclone. I just thought it could be fun to try something new on the marked.
If i do get banned with my toons, i'll post it here.

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I have been using my own version of clickboxer for months with no problems.

-j

Reythur is active on the thread, though not quite with the information we needed.

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/th...eNo=2&sid=1#39

I've posted a followup to see if we can shed any light on the click coordinate issue.