Grinder

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Originally Posted by Jacobsalt

@ Tool: Do you often get a straight up volley in OTAs and NMCs? (if so how many domis does it take with garde setup)? I am trying to figure out if the gardes kill too few right off the bat for them to be worth much in those. It seems like they would not be that good in ncos.

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I don't really understand what you're asking.

Every kill is one volley that's why I can only kill one ship every 4 seconds (cycle time for sentries and ALL sentries fire regardless of the target). I haven't had much time to experiment post garde nerf. Pre-garde nerf I could pop niarjas consistently with 3 domis but sometimes Tamas would barely survive. Pre-change 4 domis was good enough to guarantee one shots on all the 9k EHP frigates when properly tackled. The renyns are a bit of a pain and to a lesser extent so are schmaels. I'm currently running with 5 domis for the frigates to ensure even at range things pop in one salvo. I could probably get away with 4 domis but that increases my control requirements which I'm not interested in doing right now.

My current setup is loki DDD, 5 domis (frigate duty), 2 vindis with anti-em screen and t2 burst aerator, two nestors.

I run the shield rigs on the vindicators so I can run with a local HQ fleet when I need a break from boxing and just want to chill but still make isk. That was one of the things I missed once I switched to a loki as without the paladin I had no ship that could run in a more conventional fleet.

Currently the domis are easily handling the frigates and there's not much I can do there to improve times other than run two lokis which isn't going to be very efficient. I do spend quite a bit of time waiting for cruisers to die. SO I decided to try to improve times on the cruiser and larger ships. The deltole in OTAs in particular takes FOREVER to die. The vindis are good for about 1600 dps right now. Unfortunately I never got t2 large blasters on those two characters so they are 18 days away. With void I should be well over 1800 dps each. With "only" 1600 dps they chew through the cruisers and deltole very well. I even find time to sick the vindis on frigates in NCOs. With their .121 tracking and with two webs they can each handle a frigate quickly. It's just they have a long lock time on frigates so I have to do a little mental work to keep the dps spread properly :P

I'll get some videos up once the burn thing is over with and I can more safely run.


EDIT : Biggest downside is slower warp speed and the ammo usage sucks.. Switching to two vindicators increased my fleet sunk cost by 1.2b too. So I'm at about 7.3b isk for the entire fleet now.

To fix the warp speed problem I'll probably cut the t2 hybrid burst to a t1 and suffer the DPS loss for a t2 warp speed rig. I lose about 170 dps doing that with the t1 fit. The t2 fit will lose about 175 dps. It's acceptable for me but I'm not sure what the HQ fleets will say in response to the warp speed rig. Considering some of the shit fits I've seen in those fleets I shouldn't have a real issue.

im just curious why you have chosen to go with armor. i am doing shield domis and its working good, the only problem i get is that in the nco i cant pop some of the frigates in the 4 sec timer, the niarjas and tamas die in 4 secs tough

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Originally Posted by iThirdAge Solette

im just curious why you have chosen to go with armor. i am doing shield domis and its working good, the only problem i get is that in the nco i cant pop some of the frigates in the 4 sec timer, the niarjas and tamas die in 4 secs tough

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Because I can always pop any frigate every 4 seconds while also hitting stuff at spawn range in OTAs and NMCs. I one shot niarjas easily at 80 KM.

Each nestor is worth 2x scimitars in repping power while having massively larger buffers in tank..


Meaning when someone tries to gank me they have a much harder time.


EDIT : Would you care to share your fit so that I might better compare on my end :P

my ships are super overtanked, but the pilots dont perfect shield skills. i have 72/70/73/78 resists with this
for domis im using this:

[Dominix, incursions]
Damage Control II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Omnidirectional Tracking Enhancer II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Omnidirectional Tracking Enhancer II
Drone Damage Amplifier II
Drone Damage Amplifier II


Omnidirectional Tracking Link II
Pithum C-Type EM Ward Amplifier
Large Shield Extender II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II
Adaptive Invulnerability Field II


Drone Link Augmentor II
Drone Link Augmentor II


Large Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I
Large Core Defense Field Extender I
Large Core Defense Field Extender I




Federation Navy Garde x5


Optimal Range Script x1


i then use 1 loki with 3 navy webs, 2 faction TP's and some guns. for tank i use only 1 dcu and rigs
the basis are standart fitted, nothing fancy there

i like this fleet because i can run it relaxed, just need to assign drones, then play with loki and basis :P. the downside of it is that it has low dps, so in ota's it is a pain to kill the deltolte, and if i get contested there is a big possibility i will lose unless i am already deeep into it
obviously your fleet has a lot more dps since you use 2 nestors and 2 vindis :P

still need to add some guns, still considering if its worth it tough, seems like they dont do that good of a dps
to be honest i dont really worry about getting ganked/losing ships, this fleet is cheap and has paid for itself something like 5 times over already
as always suggestions and constructive criticism are always welcome


NOTE: please bare in mind i dont use a booster, only perfect passive-booster for the shield buffer

Since we are getting a slight nerf (the dda changes coming in aegis) are we still good with the ability to kill one every 4 seconds? Id imagine there is a fair bit of wait when we have that much volley, so the net loss of about 7% of the dps increase from 4ddas (old 62ish, new 55 ish percent drone dmg) should not hurt too badly.

I like the above points (about the nestors and autokilling in the armor fleet) but wonder if the main problem third's shield fleet has is in fact having to overtank because of lacking a booster?

i dont have the numbers in front of me, but i think that if i had a booster i would be able to drop 1 invuln (even if i had to pimp out the other one), that way i would have 1 extra omni tracking link

EDIT: but yeah, booster would definetly help, even if its just for the oh-shit moments

Your drones have very similar range as mine but my garde IIs with my setup has .089 tracking where as with your setup they have .055 tracking according to EFT.

That's a huge difference in tracking when dealing with all those tiny signature frigates.

Your domi setup actually has more omni EHP without boosts than what mine has WITH boosts. I'm not terribly surprised by that as my setup skimps some on the omni tank in order to be more gank resistant and faster warp (2x warp speed rigs 1x thermal rig). Torps provide the kinetic/explosive side of damage and my boosts include signature reduction which means the torps aren't applying full damage to the domis.

Boosted my domis are 99,627 omni ehp

Resist profile for armor is 76/75/68/56 with 340m sig.



My nestors bring 381 dps each to the fleet along with their ridiculous over repping ability. So basically the two nestors are like having another domi using gardes when dpsing the cruisers and up. I forgot to mention that earlier. I'm going to try assigning the nestor's heavy drones to the vindicators so I can apply dps more effectively as the vindicators are targeting cruisers and large as primary.


The nerf won't effect my ability to one shot the frigates as four domis worth of garde IIs alpha for 11,408 damage. I use five domis so my garde II alpha is 14260 in theory. I overkill because I always assume less then perfect damage application. I'm pretty confident I'll still be able to one shot the frigates post change. I do feel sadness at the overall nerf to DPS though.

i might have more resists, but you have 2 nestor :P
i assume you use 7 reps on the nestor? that means you have twice ad much repping power than me

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Originally Posted by iThirdAge Solette

i might have more resists, but you have 2 nestor :P
i assume you use 7 reps on the nestor? that means you have twice ad much repping power than me

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Indeed 7 reps each is the source of the ridiculous repping capability. They can also lock up to 11 targets.

i see... but one of the disadvantages of getting the nestors is that the fleet price goes up by a lot :s

i am also really interested to see how you manage to control the loki and 2 vindis at the same time without isboxer. any plans on making a video?