The Banned thread

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MiRai

You're going to have to explain this statement to me (and probably others). What are the two actions you speak of?

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NP, thought I'd mentioned it here somewhere, but I'll explain it again.

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Input on Left, Action on Right:

Vanilla Player:

f1 OR click module --> activate module on eve client 1.
alt tab OR move mouse to other eve window --> swap focus to different eve window.
f1 OR click module --> active module on eve client 2.

Isboxing Round Robin:

f1 --> f1 on eve client 1.
f1 --> f1 on eve client 2.

Isboxing Simple VideoFX:

f1 OR click module --> activate module on eve client 1.
move mouse to other eve window OR hit ctrl+"some number" (in my setups case) --> swap focus to different eve window.
f1 OR click module --> activate module on eve client 2.

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You'll notice two of these are almost identical.

Can you tell me which of those is not like the others?

If you said Round Robin, you'd be correct.

Somewhere between:
"f1 --> f1 on eve client 1."
and
"f1 --> f1 on eve client 2."
there is a:
???? --> Swap Window Focus.

You argue it differently if you want, but you still end up with:
"f1 --> f1 on eve client 1."
"f1 --> swap window focus to eve client 2."
"??? --> f1 on eve client 2."

You can't explain to me how you're swapping window focus - that is an action that must be taken by a vanilla user, and using round robin completely circumvents it.

I'm not sure how Rollover works, since it's not the rollover I originally envisioned (manually spam f1, then move your mouse over various eve windows to hit f1 when your mouse moves over it), but if it does ANYTHING like round robin - then it is also breaking the 1 input, 1 output rule.

Anyone can argue these points til they're blue in the face, but the evidence sorta speaks for itself. I'm not banned, despite putting up a video myself, and with one of my accounts stolen a month or so ago, CCP went over my shit with a fine-toothed comb - they knew my accounts, how many I had, what they flew, what they did, etc etc - no bans or mention of isboxer(or "macro use" as they'd call it when done illegally).

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I also want to echo Mirai again with a "CCP will NEVER say 'isboxer feature xxy is perfectly ok,' since they cannot talk about specific stuff." If you want, just think of translating a different language.

Macro Use = any program interacting with the game. Isboxer is such a program. They're not gonna call you out for "isboxer use."

Hopefully that clears some stuff up.

Here is the real issue for me ATM.

Input Duplication - Considered now against the EULA. Ok Fine.

Video FX - No explanation
Round-Robin - No explanation
Rollover - No Explanation

Each one of these can be used to emulate someone using Input Duplication (but make no mistake to those who don't use these tools, they are NOT sending more then 1 command to more then 1 client at a time in their basic usage).

Someone please try to explain why they can call out Input Duplication but not provide any clarity for ANYTHING else.

What I assume is happening is CCP has decided they can't really figure out if someone is using any of the above, they just say "hey this guy is **TOO** good, so lets just ban him".

Here is the MAJOR issue with Versimilli.

We dont know what is or is not allowed aside from ID, but in CCP's extremely vague definition he was banned per his words. All his isk was confiscated as well (that is so far over the line I can't even put it into words with getting seriously angry).

He had a ticket into CCP asking if there was any issues with what he was doing, their response? Banned without any answer.
Here is the video he submitted - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HFdYO9h0H3Y

Wanna know the WORST part about this?

CCP Falcon stated on 2 podcast's that the best solution was to send in a petition to start a dialogue with CCP. He stated their would be no repercussions and made comments that CCP is looking to help, not ban, its players.

Listen for yourself

http://t.co/Tzs4NYanpu @ 1:14
and
http://show.gamingradio.net/podpress...Show250115.mp3 @ 2:07

The OPPOSITE reaction occurred. He gets BANNED and ALL his isk confiscated. Really? REALLY??

still glad I left EVE.... seems ccp went full retarded and is punishing it's playerbase that has gone with the "forced" game changes and evolution that require you to have alts...

"just don't do it to efficient, we dont want you to get better at our game otherwise we have to actualy balance our broken game features"

Quote:

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Originally Posted by LordsServant

You can't explain to me how you're swapping window focus - that is an action that must be taken by a vanilla user, and using round robin completely circumvents it.

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I would never consider changing window focus to be an in-game action since it's a function of the operating system, but if what you say is true, then...

Two Mapped Keys:
Pressing F1, from Slot 1, sends F1 to Slot 1
Pressing F2, from Slot 1, sends F1 to Slot 2

Those are two completely separate Mapped Keys not using round-robin, but they can both function just fine w/o having to change window focus, so... Where (or when) is the window focus change happening in my example?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MiRai

I would never consider changing window focus to be an in-game action since it's a function of the operating system, but if what you say is true, then...

Two Mapped Keys:
Pressing F1, from Slot 1, sends F1 to Slot 1
Pressing F2, from Slot 1, sends F1 to Slot 2

Those are two completely separate Mapped Keys not using round-robin, but they can both function just fine w/o having to change window focus, so... Where (or when) is the window focus change happening in my example?

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It's happening when you press f2. You instantly swap focus to slot 2 and send the f1 there. If you say "but I'm still focused on window 1" then it's even worse - you're swapping focus to window 2, activating a command, then swapping back to window 1 all in one go.

Even if you want to argue that it's not for arguments sake - vanilla players cannot do the same thing no matter what.

It's been well established for a very long time (see: Bacon back in 2007 or something, along with many others) that using a program that specifically gives you the ability to do something impossible to do as a player in the vanilla game is a big "NOAP."

Isboxer entirely aside, throwing commands out to various clients without having to swap windows/window focus is entirely against the EULA for that reason.

I'm happy to casually debate in a friendly manner, but the evidence speaks for itself - I'm not banned, despite CCP having an EXTREMELY close look at my actions and accounts, while everyone who we know for a FACT has been petitioned that uses round robin/rollover - has been banned.

Looks pretty cut and dry to me.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by shadowandlight

Here is the real issue for me ATM.

Input Duplication - Considered now against the EULA. Ok Fine.

Video FX - No explanation
Round-Robin - No explanation
Rollover - No Explanation

Each one of these can be used to emulate someone using Input Duplication (but make no mistake to those who don't use these tools, they are NOT sending more then 1 command to more then 1 client at a time in their basic usage).

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Okay im just going to come out and say it

Page 7, legit.

If ccp is going to give copy paste answers in petitions im allowed to recognize things for what they are

Edit: With Lords on the window focus swapping, is that why to use Vidfx you have to click once first to 'focus' the window on the videofx tile, or am i doing something wrong?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MiRai

but I'd also ask that you provide a link to CCP giving an unofficial statement about how being too efficient when multiboxing will land you a ban, because if you don't have a link then it's based purely upon the speculation in this thread.

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You want my petition response? its near identical to the one on page 7
have at it

Quote:

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on the window focus swapping, is that why to use Vidfx you have to click once first to 'focus' the window on the videofx tile, or am i doing something wrong?

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No. It sounds like you're using DxNothing and putting your Video FX Viewers in that, right? You have to click to first focus the DxNothing window because in your Window Layout you have not ticked the "Focus follows mouse" box :)

... now back to your regularly scheduled riff raff.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lax

No. It sounds like you're using DxNothing and putting your Video FX Viewers in that, right? You have to click to first focus the DxNothing window because in your Window Layout you have not ticked the "Focus follows mouse" box :)

... now back to your regularly scheduled riff raff.

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I have videoFX viewers in both a dxnothing and a non dxnothing window.

You'll notice that I mentioned that I click a lot - if you have 4 eve windows in 4 different monitors, you can move your mouse over that eve client, and then click once and it will activate a module. Go ahead and try it right now if you want.

With isboxer, if that "swap focus" is NOT checked, you have to click once to focus the window, then click a SECOND time to activate a module. I'm only trying to make my experience as close to vanilla as possible. ;)

We had this discussion iirc several months ago when I was building my setup.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by LordsServant

Even if you want to argue that it's not for arguments sake - vanilla players cannot do the same thing no matter what.

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Unless of course they're using multiple computers where multiple windows can stay in focus, and you can control both with the same keyboard by moving just your mouse between the computers.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by LordsServant

It's been well established for a very long time (see: Bacon back in 2007 or something, along with many others) that using a program that specifically gives you the ability to do something impossible to do as a player in the vanilla game is a big "NOAP."

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If it's so well established and such a big "NOAP" (as you put it), then how come it has only become a concern 8 years later? CCP had stated many, many times in those 8 years that ISBoxer was allowed, but if it was doing things that fell into a category as extreme as the "NOAP" category (I have to assume that because it's in quotes, capitalized, and spelled incorrectly that it must be an extreme category) then why did it take almost a decade for them to get around to actioning people for using it?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by LordsServant

Isboxer entirely aside, throwing commands out to various clients without having to swap windows/window focus is entirely against the EULA for that reason.

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You have nothing to back that statement up with. Please show me the excerpt from CCP's EULA which states what you claim, and I'll ask that you not twist some general statement into your own statement for your convenience. You are very adamant that you're correct, so we're going to need some hard evidence and not your interpretation of a general statement from within the EULA.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by LordsServant

I'm happy to casually debate in a friendly manner, but the evidence speaks for itself

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And what evidence is that? The only thing I see is you just spouting words and claiming they're facts because you believe them to be so. You've convinced yourself that you've figured it out even though you don't actually have anything beyond your own speculation and assumptions to back up anything that you claim in your last post.

It's a fact that CCP has not given you, or any of us, any information on what they're "logging," or even looking for, so for you to claim that you know otherwise is complete ignorance.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by LordsServant

I'm not banned, despite CCP having an EXTREMELY close look at my actions and accounts, while everyone who we know for a FACT has been petitioned that uses round robin/rollover - has been banned.

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That is untrue, as well.

Everything you've said so far, and every claim you seem to be making is based off of the incredibly small sample size which is this forum, and this forum alone, since not a single player up to this point has posted on the ISBoxer forum claiming to have been banned. So looking at the few threads from this forum, there must be less than 20 (maybe 30) people who have actively participated in these discussions... and this is your sample size for a game with a very large multiboxing playerbase?

If the evidence speaks for itself, then show it to us and let it speak because during this dark time, EVE multiboxers need factual evidence more than ever. What they don't need are your assumptions, or opinions, which you're trying to pass off as fact, and there is a very large difference between saying, "I have factual evidence," and, "This is what I believe." If you have facts that you can provide links to, then I ask that you present the information, for you cannot cite yourself and expect others to believe what you're saying -- This isn't religion, or politics, this is a multiboxing forum where we value actual facts.

"Using overlays or other methods to alter how the game is played is against the rules and policies and we cannot sanction any such activity.

We will now close this here ticket as resolved."