(5x Shaman) Bad habits possibly coming back to bite me in heroics

Hi there!
I am currently running a 5x Orc Shaman group :thumbsup: that I started in the 2nd week of May (Orcah, Orcam, Orcara, Orcoo and Orcios on Scarlet Crusade-US), currently sitting at level 64, after spending almost all of levels 61 and 62 farming full Ramparts runs, and BF runs up to the first boss (50 or so small prismatic shards in the bank, total of one Witching Band for my team :evil: ).

I am starting to be a bit concerned with some of the techniques I use on trash pulls not being viable in heroics, for example the pull with the 2 destroyers and one beastmaster mob just after the first caster pack. Currently i just blow up the beast master ASAP, drop 5x stoneclaw then DPS them one at a time, "tanking" with my main and using a DPS button of 3x lightning bolt and 2x lesser healing wave on the focustargettarget if needed, otherwise 5x LB and shocks.

I realise that this is gonna be dicey at best on heroic mode, therefore I have been trying to earthbind castsequence kite them for practice, however i am finding that my guys all lag behind by 5-10 yards and by the time I get distance to turn around and cast, they do not catch up fast enough and i am having to run back through them towards the mobs, and running out of distance very quickly. To make matters worse, after my followers spin around when i run through them, they take a second to "snap" into place behind me, interupting their initial casting, wasting even more precious seconds. I should also clarify, that of course I am not a keyboard turner, this is not so much a movement issue, but more of a latency issue. This is also going to be a big make or break factor in the first 2 bogstrock pulls in heroic Slave Pens.

I noticed in Toned's video that it was very helpful to have the 5th being a frost mage helper on a second live person, seems he simply had to backpedal a bit on all characters at once without turning around, before nuking down the straggler destroyer.

Do people running 5x Shaman usually burn maybe a single earth elemental totem in tricky trash situations like this? I'm not sure how else I will be able to handle this once i start hitting heroics. I do have a fairly fresh 70 prot pally (blues and a few welfare pieces) on Orcah's account that i could bring in, however I really would like to stick with the 5x shammys if possible.

Any and all suggestions would be welcome.

My team isn't as high as yours but I have been practicing pulls in every instace so far. What I usually do is leave my team back and spaced out- no longer on follow and place the long lasting totems down, healing/mana, then run my main out to the pull. Do just a ES or LB on one target and bring them back to the group. That way my group is in position and ready to go. Right before I get my main back I drop my stoneclaw/fire totems. It takes a little more time to prep, but it has saved me from those "facing the wrong way or stunned on the run back" pulls.

There's two sides to this i think. I can't comment with 100% accuracy cos I'm more or less at the same stage as you. But I would like to make a guess.
When just starting heroics, ur burst won't be high enough to just mow them down before they get to you.
SO..

For difficult packs I could only suggest the following. Drop ToW etc totems at full range, run forward with ur toons (close to agro range) and drop earthbinds and stoneclaws. run ur clones back into position and pull one with your main. whilst ur main is running back into position, have ur clones pound that initially pulled mob into oblivion. the other mobs will be temporarily held up by the stoneclaw and earthbinds, which should allow you, if you are fast enough to burst each one down individually. Just be sure not to pause between kills and immediately kill the next when one goes down.

when ur gear reaches full epic lvl you may not even have to worry. the method ur adopting atm with stoneclaws will probably give you enough time to take down each one individually. If your gear goes through the roof.. then you could probably dispatch the mobs without totems or moving at all :P

I've seen the earthbind technique been used before (referring mainly to Xbox SP video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=91AT88ql8j4) and I've tried to use it myself at no success.

But getting training on this technique before you reach lvl 70 sounds as a good idea.

Good luck mastering Earthbind kiting, and if you at some point do. Please post a video so that I can learn it as well

//Ztar

The day I hit level 70 on my girls we equiped all the Seer's Mail gear and cleared 3 level 70 instances with mixed success (the first being Shadow Labrynth). Basically I just stand in 1 place and have the shit kicked out of me until I die - or more preferably - they die. To be honest I've not even attempted the kiting method (mental note, attempt kiting method).

My technic is: Drop 3/4 totems (Wrath of Air, Healing, Mana, Totem of Wrath). Pull the first mob and hope it dies before it has a chance to beat on me. After it dies drop all Stone Claw Totems, depending on the mobs I might backup, but usually I just stand my ground. From here on out its just a matter of DPS them down asap. My preference is to take out Melee mobs first and casters last I found it works better for me. If it all turns to poo I would rather die than use an Earth Elemental, prefering to leave them all to the boss(es).

At one point I was running into a few issues with either lacking DPS or HP. After swapping around a few enchants and equiping some Stam gems (where previously I had +crit gems) I managed to move past it.

My main has higher stam, as I try to tank with her. Stam gems, stam on shield etc. After hitting exalted with Sha'tar (last night woot) I've got the enchant to add threat to gloves, this had made a bit of a difference and she appears to hold the mobs a bit longer.

When I was running Ramparts I absolutely dreaded the Beast Master and the 2 Destroyers, if I was gonig to wipe it was on that pull! I had more trouble on that pull than the bosses. I thought myself lucky if I only lost 1 or 2 girls during that fight :)

Thanks for the responses everyone, don't think i'm as psyched out about this now as I was before, sitting at 68 now, and had pretty good success in Mana Tombs a few days ago at 66 doing a bit of kiting, but mostly just blasting the crap out of everything.

Fleecy, your post is very encouraging information, sounds like you and I run the same way, my main guy does stack on more stamina items, and has frost shock in his rotation where the others are running earth shock. Also judging by "The Motes" heroic Slave Pens video on youtube, kiting is not required at all (at least for up to second boss), even on the coilfang defenders 8| . Also I like his strategy for the first 2 bogstrock pulls, which is to not do them at all, and just skip through them hehehe :thumbsup: .

If its any consolation, my bad habit is not kiting as well and I clear almost all heroics (including Mgt) with 5 shamans. I hate kiting unless it's absolutely necessary as it slows things down a lot running around like a little school girl. The key is to build up your spell dmg, your AC and stamina will also be naturally higher if you have pvp gear too. Also pay particular attention to the mobs that will run at you and do the most dmg first / interrupt your casting, those are the ones that must be taken out first in most cases. Having a good idea how many casts and the sequence you need to do before you can switch off to another target to mow it down is important - you'll notice once your spelldmg and crit goes up that it takes less casts to plow a mob down making it that much quicker to take out 2 mobs before they even get near you. Also macro any spell dmg increasing trinkets into your lightning bolt or CL spam.

The first heroic I ever tried when hitting 70 was Mana Tombs and I got owned really bad. I remember thinking if heroics are this hard, how the hell am I gonna do this if I'm getting 1 or 2 shot to death. After much gearing and focusing on the right mobs first, and being able to switch targets during the cast to avoid the lag on the next cast I can confidently say it has become probably the easiest heroic that can be cleared easily in about 30-45 minutes doing all 4 bosses. Probably less, but I have this urge to kill things in there for the Etherum Prison keys and I like to watch the mobs pop like balloons when 5 chain lighting go off. lol.

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Originally Posted by 'Fursphere',index.php?page=Thread&postID=78669#pos t78669

I think most of the 5x Shaman guys rely on extreme burst DPS to down mobs before they even get close to your group. So you don't need a tank for trash, you kill it long before it kills you.

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QFT - Only on 4+ pulls do I even really worry about Stoneclawing or Bloodlusting.

I started heroics right after I hit 70 with the rep gear, and blues I had collected. Ramps/MT/Botanica were my first targets, then Slabs, BF, Durn (Durn I wouldn't recommend until you've got a significant amount of spell damage and 10k+ hp, because chain lightning in there can spell death if used incorrectly). I don't use TOW anymore, as I do like the instant em/cl even in a pve situation more, and I'm sitting at about 33% crit which is good enough for me :)

OMG Another Scarlet Crusader?