Locking instances pvp threads

After seeing what happened in the thread vegas created I feel like I should chime in. Thank you vegas for the thought and time you put into that long post, it was a shame that by the time I noticed the post it had already been locked.

As a bit of a backstory, I myself have been multiboxing predominantly deathknights off and on since the cataclysm expansion. My only reason for boxing has and continues to be for pvp. I grew frustrated losing bgs by no fault of my own, so I discovered that multiboxing could help in that regard by putting more weight to my own actions vs those of my teammates.

I do indeed find the post vegas created to be very helpful. I hope that we can stay civil and be allowed to discuss pvp in bgs, because we all know there are far more people who read forums without posting than there are those who post. Vegas and I can not be the only ones who would benefit from these discussions.

As a start to such discussion I will share how I manage. I am able to continue to play in bgs by using a multi person mount and interacting with it to create a following method. The repairs mounts are best for this because they start with npcs filling then seats, this prevents accidental dismount when 2 of your slaves go for the same seat and one ends up on foot. Whilst on foot I interact with enemies to get around, so I avoid indoor places because it is difficult to move effectively. Has anyone came up with an acceptable way to move when one can not mount?

No one said that you weren't allowed to discuss "instanced PvP," not only because multi-person mounts exist, but because that also covers Arena. What gets tiring is when someone repeatedly posts about how they admittedly bot, and that it's safe because they've never been banned. This can encourage others to do it, and that's not what this site is about. Multiboxers already have to deal with an uphill battle every step of the way, and adding the label of "botter" to that just makes the battle even more difficult. So, when we begin to allow that kind of talk on the forum, what does that say for the integrity of the site?

Personally, I believe the main reason people get away with it is because the general population of the game is ignorant, and doesn't know that /follow was removed from battlegrounds years ago. If the vast majority of players knew this, then those who were hacking to replace the /follow function would get reported more often, their accounts would be looked into, and, in turn, actioned. Think of it like being able to fly in The Broken Isles... Everyone knows you can't currently fly there, so when someone sees another person flying around they already know they're hacking the game to achieve that, and are reported as such.

Ultimately, if your playstyle requires that you have to be hush hush about it, then feel free to stop posting on this site all together, because you're just going to let people down when your reply about something specific is, "I can't talk about it on this site."

Also, the topic of your thread is click-bait about one subject (which is for general discussion), but then at the end of your post, you ask a completely unrelated question (about PvP), and I'm not sure what you expect from this thread.

Goodness, you so damn aggressive. The purpose of the post was to point out that his information was useful and deserves to be open for response. Which is exactly what the title implies.

But of course at the end of the day I am here to learn about multiboxing, which is why I am protesting the locked thread. Which is also why I added a question in at the end, I am here to learn from and help others.

There's nothing aggressive about MiRai's post, that's just the result of you not wanting to hear what he has to say. He's simply pointing out the rules as they've been established here for a long time: we abide the TOS of any games we multibox, as this site aims to be a legitimate forum for multiboxers. When people show up discussing bots and other violations, that isn't helping the multiboxing community. It's undermining it. The post you were referencing did just that: while there may very well have been some very useful information there, there was also mention of "a program I'm using that I can't discuss here", or something akin to that. In other words, "I knowingly and willingly violate the rules". And again, this site is -not- about violating the rules, quite the opposite. This is a place to obtain legitimate information about the multiboxing playstyle and discuss what we do with others. Hacking, cheating and botting is -not- part of that, and it's not something this site (and I suspect many of its visitors including myself) wants to be associated with. We tend to get enough crap from ignorant people calling us cheaters or botters because they don't know the rules, the last thing we need is for a site with legitimate information and helpful people to turn into a grey area that just confirms their ignorance.

The problem with people like yourself and the poster you're referencing is that you think the rules don't apply to you. And when you get called out, you throw a hissy fit, complain about how unreasonable people are being, how nobody can tell you what to do, how your freedom of speech is impeded, you protest locked threads and argue that (parts of) the forum might as well be shut down. And it could all have been prevented if you'd educate yourself a little and stop acting like a punk. The rules are quite clear. If you want to discuss things that violate the TOS of any of the games, that's up to you. None of us are going to stop you. But you'll have to do it elsewhere, because this is not the place. Advocating that it should be, means you're not supporting a legitimate multiboxing community, you're undermining it.

If you want to make threads discussing legimate ways of multiboxing in battlegrounds (for example), by all means do so. I'm certain there are plenty who'll appreciate it. But don't start some passive aggressive I'm-stomping-my-feet-cos-the-rules-don't-apply-to-me-hissyfit-thread and expect it to turn into an enlightened discussion about the question you snuck in at the bottom of your complaint.

The thing is, information in a post like the one you mentioned is skewed. It's based on the experiences of someone who violates the TOS, who uses hacking/botting/cheating to play, and perceptions are tainted as a result. To what degree? That's hard to say, it will vary case by case. But they -are- tainted because they're not the result of a normal, legitimate playstyle. And as such, it's hard to tell how much of that information is still useful for those looking to multibox legitimately. When they're unable to match the results, it could even encourage others to start hacking/botting/cheating. Another issue is that if this site turns into a gray area, people can end up getting banned for TOS violations for information they thought was legitimate. That's why there is a zero tolerance policy. We abide the rules, end of story.

And before anyone complains: I know I'm not a moderator here. I'm just someone who values this site highly and enjoyed it for years before finally registering myself, and I'd like for it to remain the collection of useful, legitimate information and helpful people that it's been for all those years.

Goodness, I'm so damn aggressive. :rolleyes:

I wholeheartedly agree with Bear with the relevance of the information on that thread.

The information he posted is only really relevant to those playing under the same conditions. As such, anyone trying to play without his "secret" method of follow (although I guess we all know or can guess it) will be represented information that, atleast to some extent, will not apply for their experience with the spec. For example any ranged coming before top melee classes in multiboxing of BGs while not breaking any rules is - in my humble opinion- downright impossible. Sure, if you just get to sit back and DPS they'd do fine, but once anything is on you, it breaks down with no follow mechanic in place.

This along with the hint of this secret way of following in BGs, as Mirai also pointed out in the original thread, will simply make people search said method out when their expectations are not met and they are given this hope of a better way of playing. This will lead to more abuse, and things being worse for all of us.

I wish there was a comfortable way of multiboxing BGs as do a lot of others on these boards, but there simply isn't. Because of that I've simply elected to not do them rather than turn to cheats. It's always our responsibility to play within the given rule set and find allowed ways of working around the issues our play style might face, if we hope for game developers to tolerate our presence in their games.

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Originally Posted by Gumiebear

Goodness, you so damn aggressive.

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I cannot control how you read or interpret my posts, but I would say that it was written with little aggression.

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Originally Posted by Gumiebear

The purpose of the post was to point out that his information was useful and deserves to be open for response. Which is exactly what the title implies.

But of course at the end of the day I am here to learn about multiboxing, which is why I am protesting the locked thread.

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We are also here to multibox, using legitimate methods with realistic expectations.

Think if either Xeneres or DavidMage—both who are leading the Mythic+ 5-man progression in dungeons—were found out to be using rotation bots or some other bot/hack/exploit to gain an advantage not normally allowed, and that it was necessary for them to do that in order to achieve what they've currently achieved. What would that say about the information they've been providing all of this time? Should people still look upon that information as useful? Should people expect to achieve what they've achieved, even though they only achieved it through means of cheating, and those interested in their information are not willing to also cheat? It's hard to say exactly because it is just a hypothetical situation, but as MultiBear puts it, the thread is tainted, and as Wubsie explains, the information presented in the other thread just doesn't work for anyone not willing to also cheat.

I'll also add that it's another thing to practically brag on this site—one which has rules in place about abiding by the rules of the games which we multibox—about how you cheat the system, but "can't talk about," and then offer information and experience gained only by means of said cheating. It's insulting and misleading to everyone else who wants to play by the rules.

So, again, when we begin to allow that kind of talk on the forum, what does that say for the integrity of the site?

I, as well as others, agree that it negatively affects both the integrity of the site, as well as the fragile reputation that multiboxers have with the rest of the playerbase (and developers) in the games which we play. If someone wants to cheat, then that's their choice, but it's deceptive to present that style of gameplay to others as "safe," and I'll ask that they keep that information to themselves, and off of this forum.

However, if you wish to write up your own thread, similar to the other, but based upon your legitimate experience through the use of a multi-person mount in battlegrounds, then by all means, please do so, as many others will likely find that information to be much more useful.

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Originally Posted by Gumiebear

Which is also why I added a question in at the end, I am here to learn from and help others.

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Discussing multiple, unrelated topics in the same thread is usually referred to as de-railing the thread, and is generally frowned upon across any internet forum I've been on in the last decade. Multiple unrelated topics in the same thread make it very, very difficult to follow along with, especially when someone is trying to search for that information at a later time.