Double DK + Resto Shaman

So I've settled on this as my team for 5.4 I've got them all up to Tyrannical gear running 2s.

Some questions off the bat. I know that Unholy is right now better because of mastery stacking issues but will the unholy might buff put frost out in front?

Part of my beef with UH/UH/Resto is that the team lacks any burst whatsoever. This allows melee to tunnel my shaman inevitably killing him if they are good at it. Part of my strategy is to put the shaman on coils (basically the DKS funnel all RP to him for coil heals). It sometimes works... sometimes. Not nearly enough to warrant the use of it. It also seems to murder their DPS.

Resto talents: http://www.wowhead.com/talent#sXE| as my talent build for the resto shaman.
DK Talents: http://www.wowhead.com/talent#k\M|

I focus on the melee usually because the DKS keep them snared with chilblains. Stacking necrotics also kills any and all healing.

The problem seems to be that if they tunnel the shaman I'm toast. If they don't, they lose. I'm trying to change up ever so slightly to provide my shaman with more survival without hurting his long term game. Meaning I don't want to stack resilience to spite his spirit. Long fights are already a drain on me and long fights are where UH pulls ahead.

What would you suggest changing up? Right now I prioritize mastery on my DKs and spirit on my shaman. All baseline resilience (65%). DKs sit around 58% mastery with shaman's buff.


The comps I have the hardest trouble with usually have hunters (BM of course) or retribution paladins (hand of freedom). I've been wondering how frost will do but my dummy parses show that frost is nowhere near as good as unholy. Even boxing.

Let me know what you think!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MadMilitia

So I've settled on this as my team for 5.4 I've got them all up to Tyrannical gear running 2s.

Some questions off the bat. I know that Unholy is right now better because of mastery stacking issues but will the unholy might buff put frost out in front?

Part of my beef with UH/UH/Resto is that the team lacks any burst whatsoever. This allows melee to tunnel my shaman inevitably killing him if they are good at it. Part of my strategy is to put the shaman on coils (basically the DKS funnel all RP to him for coil heals). It sometimes works... sometimes. Not nearly enough to warrant the use of it. It also seems to murder their DPS.

Resto talents: http://www.wowhead.com/talent#sXE| as my talent build for the resto shaman.
DK Talents: http://www.wowhead.com/talent#k\M|

I focus on the melee usually because the DKS keep them snared with chilblains. Stacking necrotics also kills any and all healing.

The problem seems to be that if they tunnel the shaman I'm toast. If they don't, they lose. I'm trying to change up ever so slightly to provide my shaman with more survival without hurting his long term game. Meaning I don't want to stack resilience to spite his spirit. Long fights are already a drain on me and long fights are where UH pulls ahead.

What would you suggest changing up? Right now I prioritize mastery on my DKs and spirit on my shaman. All baseline resilience (65%). DKs sit around 58% mastery with shaman's buff.


The comps I have the hardest trouble with usually have hunters (BM of course) or retribution paladins (hand of freedom). I've been wondering how frost will do but my dummy parses show that frost is nowhere near as good as unholy. Even boxing.

Let me know what you think!

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Frost has really high burst with obliterate.

The time of double dk is kinda over because the days of tunneling healers into the ground is over.

I took this comp to 2400 in s10 and s11 running with a holy paladin and the only reason it worked well enough was the state of PVP at that time. Necrotic being on death runes really fucks double DK from being amazingly strong. Being able to "ride the blue" was what made the composition work in all honesty

Good luck! If you want more in depth tips... ask some questions.

Against melee you'd be better of playing with aphyxiate over chilblains. Stun, half stun, hex ... But even to counter openers vs say a hunter/feral team, it has a 30y range, which is absolutely sick.
Conversion is really the talent to go. I often do 1v2 as unholy to cap alts I don't actively play, and you don't die that easy. Combined with blood presence (you will no longer get those free death coils in blood presence though) that means a lot of survivability.
As unholy I prefer blood tap over runic corruption. You can get 6 necrotic strikes per dk this way.
Gorefiend's grasp: desecrated ground is a free extra trinket for your dk's, though I can definitely see why a boxer would want GG.
Purgatory might have some use as a boxer, but lichborne is so good, you can macro it so that it becomes an extra heal. It obviously breaks fears as well (and sleep effects from the warlock pet).
As a resto shaman I'd try out totemic projection with this team, definitely if you give up chilblains for asphyxiate: you can relocate earthbind totem to assist your dk's. Not to mention that relocating capacitor totem influences the positioning of the enemy team (landing it is ofc nice, but just making the opposite healer move out of his comfortable position can create opportunities as well).

If you don't want to give up chilblains you could always go for 1 chilblains and 1 asphyxiate. Same with gorefiends grasp. But asphyxiate will both increase your shamans survivability and your offensive pressure.

Unholy dk is all about sick pressure through landing necrotic strikes while your diseases are ticking. As a boxer it can be harder to manage your runes properly compared to braindead frost, but if you get outbreak going, 2x festering strikes, build up 10x blood tap through death coils, and then manage to land 6x necrotic strikes x2, pop your pet+unholy frenzy + trinket/racial ... any target will die.

Frost might be easier, but unholy is so much more rewarding. And works better at higher ratings. Really if you can get the hang of this team, you can get really far.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by zenga

Against melee you'd be better of playing with aphyxiate over chilblains. Stun, half stun, hex ... But even to counter openers vs say a hunter/feral team, it has a 30y range, which is absolutely sick.
Conversion is really the talent to go. I often do 1v2 as unholy to cap alts I don't actively play, and you don't die that easy. Combined with blood presence (you will no longer get those free death coils in blood presence though) that means a lot of survivability.
As unholy I prefer blood tap over runic corruption. You can get 6 necrotic strikes per dk this way.
Gorefiend's grasp: desecrated ground is a free extra trinket for your dk's, though I can definitely see why a boxer would want GG.
Purgatory might have some use as a boxer, but lichborne is so good, you can macro it so that it becomes an extra heal. It obviously breaks fears as well (and sleep effects from the warlock pet).
As a resto shaman I'd try out totemic projection with this team, definitely if you give up chilblains for asphyxiate: you can relocate earthbind totem to assist your dk's. Not to mention that relocating capacitor totem influences the positioning of the enemy team (landing it is ofc nice, but just making the opposite healer move out of his comfortable position can create opportunities as well).

If you don't want to give up chilblains you could always go for 1 chilblains and 1 asphyxiate. Same with gorefiends grasp. But asphyxiate will both increase your shamans survivability and your offensive pressure.

Unholy dk is all about sick pressure through landing necrotic strikes while your diseases are ticking. As a boxer it can be harder to manage your runes properly compared to braindead frost, but if you get outbreak going, 2x festering strikes, build up 10x blood tap through death coils, and then manage to land 6x necrotic strikes x2, pop your pet+unholy frenzy + trinket/racial ... any target will die.

Frost might be easier, but unholy is so much more rewarding. And works better at higher ratings. Really if you can get the hang of this team, you can get really far.

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Asphyxiate in general is what you'd want. Double stun into hex while pet stunning another DPS twice can be amazing.
Necrotics don't stack anymore and haven't since s11. Healing from one stack heals BOTH stacks on the target... which makes it incredibly difficult to keep it up.
Disease pressure and kill potential with double garg is your best bet.
Gorefiend's grasp is useless, get the extra trinket and learn to tell which toon needs to trinket.

Shaman is not the best healer for this comp, it is so squishy and offers so little utility wise for double DK.

VS melee comps you're going to spend the entire game peeling, because of train the blue... with double DK a few dispels will negate your pressure (especially from a priest).

Triple purge will be strong, so use that on kill targets.

Blood tap is a must.

Vs a hunter/feral team... this comp would just lose. (as the example above). Their damage is not only more than your dks but they have chain CC for one of your dks while they ride your blue into the ground (same with rets, warriors etc)

This comp lacks reliable peels without chilblains and even then getting away while not losing your DPS to the point where they are going to immediately die if you don't have IBF is hard vs other melee comps. Especially because you can't really go into unholy presence against melee comps... or hell even caster comps. In high rating I spend more than half of the game in

Lichbane or bust IMO, extra fear break on top of your totem + trinkets... you'll never get feared at least not for very long.

I played DK to 2300 last season and unholy is better in general... but double unholy is crap. You will be better off with warrior + dk than double dk.

Thanks for the input gents!

To my knowledge (I've run about 300 games this season on various comps) and the problem ultimately seems to be that DKs are just not a good match for a resto shaman. Oppositional they're the best. Together not so great.

I'll explain my usage of the talents.

GG - This is an amazing peel if you use it right. Meaning when double/triple melee decide to whomp my shaman I can hit them all with GG and get them all (targetting self) and then los them on the shaman.
Chilblains - Good luck killing a resto druid without it.
Purgatory - Sometimes in 3s one of the DKs winds up in an awful position and gets gibbed. Literally 100-0 in 2 or 3 globals. No purgatory would be incredibly hard to adjust to.
Runic Corruption - I don't like the spasms of blood tap. I can see it being great though for landing lots of necros. But the thing is, with death runes rolling in from my regular rotation, I can also use death siphon to heal my DKs without having to worry about myself being CC'd. Death Siphon isn't the best i know but it's one of those things I don't have to think about within the rotation.

Perhaps I should try double frost instead. I did not know that necrotic stacks were nerfed. Ugh... I wish I'd known about this some time ago. I do have an arms warrior sitting at tyrannical (mostly) so that is an option. Still... I'm wondering how UH/Frost would do.

Dispels don't really affect these guys. Their normal PvP rotation doesn't including festering. They spam icy touch and plague strike along with blood boil. Damage wise they can put out a steady amount of damage in 3s IF the shaman lives.

I can see the point about being in unholy presence though. I've had some games where one of them winds up gibbed, fast. Like I would eat a corner and before I could turn it they'd be dead. Those comps (ele) are getting nerfed though.


Conversion doesn't strike me as useful. I know it does heal a good bit but it can also be pushed through in 3s. It also requires a lot of RP to keep it going. That means less coils in DPS and less coils on my shaman.