Paladin and 4 x Mages

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PALADIN + 4 MAGES
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I have really enjoyed this group composition for a year and a half. Lots of explosions, plenty of one shooting. My first love is running instances and is primarly why I box. So I've taken this type of group through many difficult situations and a lot of success. But I wonder if I'm missing something? A little extra healing would be very nice, but not at the expense of a lot of DPS.

Could my play style be too primative? Are fights supposed to last longer and so require a healer? Are longer fights better than shorter? Normally my group can burn down a group of elites, especially with sheeping, in 30 seconds or less.

Should my Pali be spending more time building agro, gettiing healed by a healer of some sort and mages casualy buring down the mobs one by one that way? That sounds like it would work and be more "sophisticated".

Here is a summary of what I like about this composition:

Paladin healer/tank
Most would say I need a healer, but in SFK my healer was being killed first thing. In WC my healer didn't seem to help a lot. And most often the healer is just taking up space because the paladin does a great job staying alive.

Mage AOE
I love the raw firepower my four mages bring to the table along with massive AOE damage, that can in itself bring down elites when desperate.

Mage crowd control
Very nice to sheep four at once and then burn them down at me leisure.

DPS
I can often bring an elite down before it gets to the group. With normal content I can one shot a good part of the time.

So what am I missing out on without a dedicated healer? If I started again I would go with a PALADIN + 3 MAGES + REST SHAMAN. The extra healing and rezing could be very nice in instances.


PALADIN + 3 ELE SHAMAN + 1 REST SHAMAN?
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I have considered running a Paladin + 4 Shaman.
But I'm concerned that I don't have crowd control and the AOEs stink. But perhaps this is made up for by being able to take a beating? I have even taken a starting group for a test run and did enjoy it alot. While in the starting area one shaman did die! Crazy, must have not being paying attention, my fault for sure.

I've read everything I could find on running this type of group. This composition is so popular that I'm considering spending time leveling a new group from scratch. I suppose fights will last a bit longer than I'm used to but the overall strategy might replace sheeping for doing more tanking. They could pound on my pali all day long while I mash the heal button while buring down the mobs one by one. I can't wait to try.

With a paly and 4 shamans you do not need CC. When you spec your tank right ( not a healing/prot spec.) and he has the gear, you can take on many mobs at once and just burn them all down. There is no "better" team make up than this, as far as "ease" and full flexibility go. ANY team with a tank+3dps+healer works. Shaman do have some lite CC though later on, Rooting totems and hex, I NEVER use them in PvE though.

I have 4 shammys at 80 and I have never cast hex on any of them, not even to try it. As Lyonheart says, CC isnt needed these days as all the instances are a joke. Also your healer shouldnt be dying because he shouldnt be getting hit, thats what the tank is for after all. A lot of people play with 4 ele shammys and 1 pala tank. Personally I use 3 dps, 1 tank and 1 healer. Its all a matter of playstyle preference.

I dont know what level you are at now, but I am pretty sure heroics are going to be a massive problem for you without a healer when you first start. Most of the trash packs should be ok, but I doubt you will be able to tank any bosses with no healer. Mages can put out more dps than shammys in top end gear, but we are talking about gear that is only obtainable from doing high end raids.

My advice would be to drop 1 mage for a shaman and dual spec him resto/ele. Then you have the best of both worlds. The shaman will boost your mages dps considerably with totems and heroism and can heal when needed also. If you are still around sfk level which I guess you are as that is an instance you mentioned, then it wouldnt take long at all to level a shammy solo to catch him up with the others.

Yeah if we are talking about PVE in the world, the elites are usually cakewalk. A tank plus any combination of dps is good enough to take on any elite outside of instances with exception to a few world bosses. Inside of instances things hit harder and faster and crowd control you so you definately need some type of heals.

The shamans bring lots of utility to the table along with a little extra armor. They can take a little more of a beating but it's ultimately their totems that make them so viable. Couple them with a paladin and you have resistances for almost every type of damage out there with the exception of holy and tons of buffs.

Sounds like it could be a fun group PVP wise but I don't know much when it comes to PVP.

PALADIN + 4 MAGES

When Pally heals = 0 Block, 0 Dodge & 0 Parry

You'll just be frustrated without a healer as you level

PVE
Vanilla Dungeons = Few low level dungeons
Outland Dungeons = Not possible
Northrend Dungeons = Oh hell no

PVP
WG - Possible
Arena - Tough
BGs - Possible

You all have some really great points.

I am attracted to having a healer and maybe even a priest. But then I might as well have a warrior in place of my paladin while I'm at it.

I did try leveling with healer but the healer seemed to be sitting around not doing much, before level 20. A Rest Shaman could at least help out with the DPS. It was not till BRD that healing became a major issue. All instances before that were very doable by my group.

One thing for sure, from all of your comments, I've been missing out not having a dedicated healer. I have leveled to 60 with my Paladin+Mage group and the Paladin has really taken a beating trying to hear during fights. A dedicated healer would certainly allow the fights to be longer in my favor and I definitely will go that way. I'm leaning towards the 3 x Ele Shaman and 1 Rest Shaman as a dedicator healer who can still contribute to DPS.

And yes, once I hit Black Rock Depths, I soon realized something was wrong. Those level 51 dwarves where killing my group at 56 when taking on two or more. Apparently a Paladin+Mage group can not do heroics lacking the healing component. I guess there's a reason groups have dedicated healers. Took me this long to realize. And it won't come to anyone's surprise what happened when my 56 and later 60 group tried out Stratholme, lots of graveyard visits.

I think the PALADIN+3 ELEM SHAMAN + REST SHAMAN is probably the best choice for me. Being able to resist fear, being able to take damage cloth+leather+mail, being able to rez, having some dedicated healing all make a lot of sense for me.

No PVP for me I'm afraid. I have been running all five on one machine without a problem. Linux with five desktops which saves some video card power. But only keyclone works and can be a little buggy. Sound only works for one of the accounts and not the rest. So I'll try out windows XP.

OK
Anyone have more to say about RET PALADIN+3 ELEM SHAMAN + REST SHAMAN composition?

Since this combination is widely covered, I will not start a thread about this choice.

Now I understand why NOBODY is talking about a PALADIN+ 4 MAGES.

THANKS EVERYONE!!!!

I didn't mean to imply that I was doing BRD heroics. Just in case someone noticed that.

paladin is a much much easier tank to manage.

OK Now I'm being lazy and not doing the research on Paladin versus Warrior for tank.

I've only played a Prot/Holy Paladin and looks like I'll be running with a ret pali in my next group. Very fun! Am I missing out on anything with a warrior? And I mean by fun. Since my tank will not be healing anymore and rezing will happen via the shaman(s), might a warrior be more interesting to play? I understand warriors are very dependent on the healers which must mean there are advantages in other ways.

What do you mean by manage? If I played a warrior it would be my main, so I would be directly playing it anyways. From what I read, pali's are much simpler to run as tanks. Might enjoy pressing a couple of extra button with a warrior during fights? Maybe develop more interesting strategies?

You would be fine with Pala, 3 mage, 1 shammy. The reason you havent heard people talking about that combo is because its probably not that good for pvp, with mages being too squishy and requiring kiting and micro management of spells to do good in pvp.

I dont know much about warriors but I know that Id be sad to lose all the buffs that a pala brings with blessings and auras and 900 panic buttons to press if anything goes wrong.