Multibox 3 shamans, will this hurt our over all raid dps?

The question is, with a 10 man raid composition such as
1 holy paladin
1 resto druid
3 elemental shamans
1 frost dk (mt)
1 warrior (prot fury?) ot
1 shadow priest
1 ret paladin
1(frost mage or warlock)

Question is, the forums have been complaining about shamans dps being low compared to these other power classes. With makes sense beacuse the utility of a shaman.
But i be hurting the raid by using my three elemental shamans in the raid encounters. Most of the dps is my 3 shamans and i do not want to hold back the raid because of me. I certainly want there to be the most progression possible.

I figure with 3 shamans i will always have a heroism ready to go, every buff available via the totems, and insane burst dps with lava burst.

Is there anything to worry about, i will also have 3 rogues up at 80 around the same time.

Hope to hear your in put

I can't speak for everyone, but my opinion is no. There seems to be a lot of QQ about shaman DPS being low, by bad players. I solo an elemental shaman, and ran through BT and portions of SWP pre 3.0 and post 3.0, and noticed only one difference. My DPS went up. I went from about 1300 in T6, to 1700 (And topping the charts) post 3.0. I can't speak for level 80 yet, but I predict the same results roughly. My DPS was always high, and with the ability to bring totems to the game, the occasional chain heal spam if things go wrong, I don't see how you could hurt your raids DPS, or hurt your raid overall.

I can say even my low geared (800 spellpower) 5 shaman team was able to pull 1000-1200 DPS on SWP level content (Post 3.0). I think with the right gear you will be fine.

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Originally Posted by 'Elili',index.php?page=Thread&postID=151006#post15 1006

I can't speak for everyone, but my opinion is no. There seems to be a lot of QQ about shaman DPS being low, by bad players. I solo an elemental shaman, and ran through BT and portions of SWP pre 3.0 and post 3.0, and noticed only one difference. My DPS went up. I went from about 1300 in T6, to 1700 (And topping the charts) post 3.0. I can't speak for level 80 yet, but I predict the same results roughly. My DPS was always high, and with the ability to bring totems to the game, the occasional chain heal spam if things go wrong, I don't see how you could hurt your raids DPS, or hurt your raid overall.

I can say even my low geared (800 spellpower) 5 shaman team was able to pull 1000-1200 DPS on SWP level content (Post 3.0). I think with the right gear you will be fine.

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You say its bad players complaining about the dps being low then u post that u did only 1300-1700 in T6 gear. The shamans in my guild where doing 2300dps at 70 in t6 gear and they are only doing 2500 at lvl 80. Compare that to a mage at lvl 70 was doing 2000dps and at lvl 80 doing 3500dps.

Back on topic, bringing 3 elemental shamans as dps is clearly not the optimal choice but the 10 man raids are so ridiculously easy anyway, that im sure u will be fine. I cant remember if Death Knights have a spell on par with coe or earth and moon, if they dont then you will be a lot better off when the warlock comes rather than the frost mage.

Does a warlocks curse of elements really add that much dps that a raid would not perfer to have the conviences of free food at 80 rather.

Just worried about the synergy that a warlock would be able to provide,

doesnt frost mage also have chance to give back mana, tahts also a pl;us.

You can browse http://wowwebstats.com and check out results for yourself. Search by name and then browse the guilds that have uploaded their 10/25 man kills. For example, in one case theres a ele shaman whos #8 on kel'thuzad:

http://wowwebstats.com/mkjqten65ahoy?s=1226344-1282579

These are the top guilds clearing naxx25, and you have to assume all the players are very, very good. You will see various classes juggle the top 5 spots, usually hunter/rogue/DK/mage/warlock. You will not see however ele shamans in one of those top 5 spots.

Blizzard has acknowledged ele shaman DPS is a bit low, I doubt it's going to matter much at all for the current raids, just an issue for any future raids that require more DPS. Also if any future raids require vehicle combat it may be too difficult for multiboxers.

re: mages vs. warlocks, most cooks can now make a "feast" food which essentially serves the same purpose. for 10 mans, the reality is take whoever is the best player, you don't need specific tanks, healers, debuffers, etc. Everything is spread out enough - hunters/pallies can return mana, moonkins/DKs/warlocks/shamans can buff spell dmg, cooks can make raid-wide food, etc.

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Originally Posted by 'Clone',index.php?page=Thread&postID=151017#post15 1017

You say its bad players complaining about the dps being low then u post that u did only 1300-1700 in T6 gear. The shamans in my guild where doing 2300dps at 70 in t6 gear and they are only doing 2500 at lvl 80. Compare that to a mage at lvl 70 was doing 2000dps and at lvl 80 doing 3500dps.

Back on topic, bringing 3 elemental shamans as dps is clearly not the optimal choice but the 10 man raids are so ridiculously easy anyway, that im sure u will be fine. I cant remember if Death Knights have a spell on par with coe or earth and moon, if they dont then you will be a lot better off when the warlock comes rather than the frost mage.

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Stay on topic from the beginning instead of bringing in numbers that really have no relevance to the topic. These arent the blizzard forums, the intent is to be helpful and not to try ticking people off... for the record, 1300-1700 dps is not bad by any means, so dont make it sound like it is.

Ok, I've no where near gear for wotlk so I can't say how it will be in wotlk tuned gear.

But this is what I noticed so far.

At 80 in my starting gear. I can do about 1600 dps (unbloodlusted/unheroism'd, only self-buffed otherwise). I got 1550 spellpower, 150ish haste, 20% crit. This is by using Flameshock anbd Lava burst in -optimal- lb/cl rotation and fully utilizing Thunderstorms/Fire nova's for AoE dps. Granted, I do replace the healer, altho on trash I rarely have to heal, bosses I am bloodlusted + adjusted haste rotation + healing gets me around the same dps however.

An example, there is a DK in my guild with somewhat equally shitty gear who tanked some instances for me, he does 1400 DPS while tanking. In fact, all classes seem to be more effective, in the current shitty gear. And we are indeed lacking quite a bit. Other normally comparable hybrids, such as moonkin druids for example, do around 2000 dps in equally shitty gear on average in an instance.

But like I said, I'd have to wait to gear up a bit first, and then see how dps is like. :p

But in my opinion. I've played shamans for ages. I've been higher then average dps as elemental as well as enhancement in pre-tbc and tbc. And I'm by all means not a bad player or slacker. I always try to get the most out of every encounter, not for epeen, but for the sole fact that it is more enjoyable to be competative, as long as it doesn't go at the cost off someone else ofcourse.

But my conclusion is simple. Right now, in starting level 80 gear, we are below the rest, however we are not incapable. We still have good raid buffs, we still have sufficient dps if we don't slack, and we do bring a lot of utility that can help in fights when things dont go according to plan. Top dps, in terms of PvE, isn't the most important conclusive factor. The fact we're below the rest in terms of dps, doesn't mean we are not viable.

What about your own 5 mans with instances, if you were some random healer and tank would they be impressed how fast stuff dies or would they sigh and never want to play with you again cuz the mage pulls out 300 more dps?

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Originally Posted by 'griffin01',index.php?page=Thread&postID=151354#po st151354

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Originally Posted by 'Clone',index.php?page=Thread&postID=151017#post15 1017

You say its bad players complaining about the dps being low then u post that u did only 1300-1700 in T6 gear. The shamans in my guild where doing 2300dps at 70 in t6 gear and they are only doing 2500 at lvl 80. Compare that to a mage at lvl 70 was doing 2000dps and at lvl 80 doing 3500dps.

Back on topic, bringing 3 elemental shamans as dps is clearly not the optimal choice but the 10 man raids are so ridiculously easy anyway, that im sure u will be fine. I cant remember if Death Knights have a spell on par with coe or earth and moon, if they dont then you will be a lot better off when the warlock comes rather than the frost mage.

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Stay on topic from the beginning instead of bringing in numbers that really have no relevance to the topic. These arent the blizzard forums, the intent is to be helpful and not to try ticking people off... for the record, 1300-1700 dps is not bad by any means, so dont make it sound like it is.

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Yes sorry I didnt mean to make it a personal dig at the numbers which arent even relevant. I just got annoyed that the guy said its bad players complaining about the low dps.

I agree with Kaynin that we are still more than viable even with below average dps. I do remember seeing somewhere though that Blizz wanted hybrid dps classes to be around 5% below the main dps classes. This is not the case.

On the mage vs warlock debate im only assuming that the curse of elements will be more useful than a mages buffs/debuffs. Free food/drink is always nice but when talking about min/maxing raid dps I wouldnt usually take that sort of thing into account :)
Of course at this stage im only assuming as I havent learned every classes abilities at 80 yet.

If you're talking about min/max for a raid, a lot of times players will have an alt who they log on to create food/water for the raid.
Then log the alt off and their main back on.

Technically you could do this with buffs as well, but they shouldn't make a huge amount of difference and would be more of a pain to refresh when they expired.