Keyclone (multi-boxing) for free?

[Eifersucht]

so hello i´m new and i dont know how to do this without paying?!

(sry for my bad english^^) i´m searching an program to do multi-boxing

i know a program with is free but i need more pc´s for this program an that suc*s xD for 1 acc 1 pc thats not good?!!!

i want a program like keyclone without paying and so...

pls help me^^ ans pls in easy english ;D

[Vyndree]

Is there anyway to get key clone or a program similiar to it without paying? ('http://www.dual-boxing.com/forums/index.php?page=Thread&threadID=8374')

Your question has been answered just recently. ;)

[ElectronDF]

I use HotKeyNet (www.hotkeynet.com) for my key broadcasting. It is free and easy to use.

[kllrwlf]

You still need to pay for the multiple accounts... and the computers...

Don't know why $10 (a one time cost per computer) would be a huge cost when 5x accounts = $75/month.

[neux]

You still need to pay for the multiple accounts... and the computers...

Don't know why $10 (a one time cost per computer) would be a huge cost when 5x accounts = $75/month.recently I decided to switch to Keyclone, and ...

I had to pay $20, I thought he just had to raised it for one or other reason...

is it really have to be $10 now, or was it changed recently, or what happened?...

[bigjt]

Keyclone is 19,99$ now. Atleast thet is what I paid. But still cheep compering the cost of 5 accounts. :pinch:

[OzPhoenix]

If you're going to the considerable expense of multiboxing, it seems strange that we keep seeing these "what's free" threads.

Use HotKeyNet if you like it, use KeyClone if you like it. Either way, it'll be by nearly an order of magnitude the cheapest part of multiboxing.

[Ken]

If you're going to the considerable expense of multiboxing, it seems strange that we keep seeing these "what's free" threads.

Use HotKeyNet if you like it, use KeyClone if you like it. Either way, it'll be by nearly an order of magnitude the cheapest part of multiboxing.

QFT
I don't get these "where can I get keyclone for free?" posts...

The minimum costs of multiboxing:
- 2 accounts: 30 euro
- Burning Crusade for 2 accounts: 40 euro
- Monthly subscription for 2 accounts: 26 euro (that's 312 euro per year)

And then, optionally:
- Keyclone: 12 euro, you even get free (and quick) support

[Djarid]

I worry that... no that's not true, it would imply I stay up at night fretting about it... I will rephrase ;)

I feel that many of the "Keyclone for free" posts are by people who won't have to worry about paying for all the accounts they use. This probably means they are account sharing... now parents using their offspring's accounts can get past the no account sharing rule, I am rather certain the other direction is not permissible.

It makes me wonder how many kids are putting their parents accounts at risk trying to multibox on the cheap.

[vudu]

I worry that... no that's not true, it would imply I stay up at night fretting about it... I will rephrase ;)

I feel that many of the "Keyclone for free" posts are by people who won't have to worry about paying for all the accounts they use. This probably means they are account sharing... now parents using their offspring's accounts can get past the no account sharing rule, I am rather certain the other direction is not permissible.

It makes me wonder how many kids are putting their parents accounts at risk trying to multibox on the cheap.Or stealing the CDs.
My local Wal-Mart just started putting the WoW Battlechests in the locked cage that they normally reserve for smaller expensive items such as iPods and digital cameras. I can only assume that it's b/c people are stealing the CD keys.

[Ifalna]

Sorry guys, but not wanting to pay for a function you can get free is common sense, not a hint of tos and eula breach.

I personally did not use keyclone because there is no chance in hell I am paying for something that I can get for free. Keyclone is fabulous due to the ease of setting it up, and the great support. It is not however the end all of boxing, there are plenty of other options that offer the same, or better results, that do however require getting them to work yourself.

So stop looking like assholes, cut the keyclone fanboyism (no offense to the program itself, its a great piece of work), and stop trying to hint that people that wont pay 12 euro are also account sharing or worse, some would just rather that 12 euro be spent on something else.

[Tehtsuo]

I worry that... no that's not true, it would imply I stay up at night fretting about it... I will rephrase ;)

I feel that many of the "Keyclone for free" posts are by people who won't have to worry about paying for all the accounts they use. This probably means they are account sharing... now parents using their offspring's accounts can get past the no account sharing rule, I am rather certain the other direction is not permissible.

It makes me wonder how many kids are putting their parents accounts at risk trying to multibox on the cheap.Or stealing the CDs.
My local Wal-Mart just started putting the WoW Battlechests in the locked cage that they normally reserve for smaller expensive items such as iPods and digital cameras. I can only assume that it's b/c people are stealing the CD keys.Glad to hear that. Last time I went to buy a battlechest at Walmart, I found one that was still sealed, the rest were open with the sealing tape cut. I took em to the cashier and explained that they were opened and should not be sold. Her remark? "That's ok, I'll put some Scotch tape on it and put it back on the shelf." I just stood there for a minute with my jaw hanging loose. 8|

[Tehtsuo]

Sorry guys, but not wanting to pay for a function you can get free is common sense, not a hint of tos and eula breach.

I personally did not use keyclone because there is no chance in hell I am paying for something that I can get for free. Keyclone is fabulous due to the ease of setting it up, and the great support. It is not however the end all of boxing, there are plenty of other options that offer the same, or better results, that do however require getting them to work yourself.

So stop looking like assholes, cut the keyclone fanboyism (no offense to the program itself, its a great piece of work), and stop trying to hint that people that wont pay 12 euro are also account sharing or worse, some would just rather that 12 euro be spent on something else.The alternatives are easy for anyone to track down - there's a whole post about em. Most of this topic doesn't actually qualify as "fanboyism." The fact that someone would be averse to paying 20$ once to multibox is the point. It doesn't seem in line with the standard total price of multiboxing.

[Freddie]

If all other things are equal, then sure, pick the cheapest one. But other things aren't equal.

That's why I chose the most expensive option -- wrote my own program. Even if you value my time at a dollar an hour, I probably spent more than anybody else in this thread. :)

[Ifalna]

It doesn't seem in line with the standard total price of multiboxing.I wasen't aware spending additional money that you don't have to was in line with the standard of multiboxing.

Once again, the comments made already because someone did not want to spend more money when there are free alternatives, are absolutely pathetic.

Boxing is about enjoyment, not about the amount of cash you would, or would not like, to spend. It should never be used to make snide factless little remarks about people.

[Tehtsuo]

It doesn't seem in line with the standard total price of multiboxing.I wasen't aware spending additional money that you don't have to was in line with the standard of multiboxing.

Once again, the comments made already because someone did not want to spend more money when there are free alternatives, are absolutely pathetic.

Boxing is about enjoyment, not about the amount of cash you would, or would not like, to spend. It should never be used to make snide factless little remarks about people.You're projecting a whole lot of misplaced hostility into my post that simply isn't there. If you want me to play hardball, then you're going to get the "There's a search engine" schtick. If that's what you're looking for, fine - do a search for software solutions, or better yet look for the sticky in the software tools section of the forum that conveniently lists both free and paid options for multiboxing. Otherwise, reread my post and respect that my opinion was just that - an opinion. Agree with it or not, but I don't consider it a "snide factless little remark." It would be wise for anyone looking to start to check their budget and make sure they can handle it. That's not meant to be in any way an attempt to discourage new members from getting started, it's just good sound advice.

[Ughmahedhurtz]

LOL @ this thread. I'm gonna go with Ifalna on this one. Guy has a fair comment that just because someone doesn't want to spend the extra money on keyclone doesn't mean they're cheating, hacking or otherwise immediately suspect. I understand your argument about the cost of it when compared to the totals but you're making a lot of assumptions about character that you simply don't have the data to make. What about people who are basically poor/unemployed and were given the PC(s) and 6-month account sub cards as gifts? Relative to what they spent, $20 is a LOT.

The links to alternatives have been posted already and people who don't use/advocate keyclone are not The Devil(tm).

/thread

[Vyndree]

Anyway, that should kill the 'free / common sense" bullshit arguement. WTF is your time worth anyway? Keyclone (the author) will provide you with UNLIMITED support. Got a problem? He'll take care of you. Period. There are hundreds of threads on this forum proving that fact.

When people start arguing that $20 is "too much money" or they "can't afford it" one starts to wonder how they are paying for thier accounts.... or are they paying for their accounts at all? Are they playing on a private server (breaknig EULA/TOS)? I mean.. if $20 is too much.. hell, $30 (2x wow subscriptions, the bare minimum to multibox) blows that out of the water right quick.

I see both sides of the story -- but the argument that the OP was actually LOOKING for a free program is moot. He is not looking for a free program. He is looking for a free keyclone.

He is looking for a SPECIFIC program (namely, Keyclone), and asking that it be free. He is not looking for the do-it-yourself free version that comes with little to no support.

In fact, he's ASKING us to support him by FINDING HIM a version of Keyclone that is free. This is not possible.

So, I do agree. Free does not mean cheating. Alot of people ENJOY fiddling (and I would say our entire hobby is based around experimenting with new builds/setups/macros), but in the case of this thread I don't really see the OP being one who'd enjoy having to dig his way through things and find out how to build things on his own. He is specifically asking to be handfed.

I think what the "keyclone fanboi's" are saying is that hey -- if you want to be handfed, keyclone (the person) offers excellent support for a minimal fee. There are free versions of similar software that have less support, but if you're not willing to search for answers to how to use those programs then you are probably not the type of person who would be able to succeed in setting up and using them because they are relatively unsupported and undocumented.


So, in this particular case both sides are right -- if he were looking for a DIY free multiboxing solution, then there is nothing wrong with that. However, the OP was not looking for free+difficult, he was looking for free+easy. That sort of thing doesn't exist. If he wants easy he has to pay for the product he is asking for. Which, for multiboxing, isn't a huge expense when you look at it from a relative standpoint.

[Heenan]

I have always only used MultiBox. As long as it works (or there are free alternatives) I will never pay for something. Can I afford Keyclone? Sure. But MultiBox and Octopus are right there *points to software section*

Also, the OP just said he wanted a free program to multibox with because he was already paying for accounts and hardware (the lack of English is probably another problem here).

I think people are starting to use "Keyclone" as a verb instead of a noun (Can you keyclone with that?)

[OzPhoenix]

It doesn't seem in line with the standard total price of multiboxing.I wasen't aware spending additional money that you don't have to was in line with the standard of multiboxing.

Once again, the comments made already because someone did not want to spend more money when there are free alternatives, are absolutely pathetic.

Boxing is about enjoyment, not about the amount of cash you would, or would not like, to spend. It should never be used to make snide factless little remarks about people.

Ifalna,

I think you've read way too much into some of the posts here.

I personally use KeyClone because it does what I need it to do, and the support for it is there when I need it. Do other free programs also fit that bill? Quite possibly - and I've never maintained otherwise. The point I was making is that we seem to see a lot of threads lately about trying to multibox for, essentially, free. If the OP cannot afford the $20 for KeyClone, and does not want to use one of the other free alternatives, then I would (I think fairly) suggest that he needs to re-evaluate his goals on multiboxing.

That isn't KeyClone fanboyism.

If on the other hand, he is looking for a free program to multibox with - which I agree is a perfectly legitimate motivation - then (as I also stated in my post) there are other alternatives that he could investigate.

[keyclone]

ok.. all i want to know is...

are there fangirls and are they cute? (i'm thinking nightelves here... no trolls or dwarves please :D )

[Knytestorme]

Sorry guys, but not wanting to pay for a function you can get free is common sense, not a hint of tos and eula breach.

I personally did not use keyclone because there is no chance in hell I am paying for something that I can get for free. Keyclone is fabulous due to the ease of setting it up, and the great support. It is not however the end all of boxing, there are plenty of other options that offer the same, or better results, that do however require getting them to work yourself.

So stop looking like assholes, cut the keyclone fanboyism (no offense to the program itself, its a great piece of work), and stop trying to hint that people that wont pay 12 euro are also account sharing or worse, some would just rather that 12 euro be spent on something else.

Ok, no fanboi-ism here regarding keyclone :)

People that won't pay $20 for keyclone are idiots..is that better?

If they come here, can't be bothered to use the search function, can't be bothered to read threads, can't be bothered to read the wiki (all of which have information about free alternatives, such as AHK and HKN) then what the the name of 1000 monkeys makes you think they will be able to, or spend the time on, doing the work themselves to write the functions needed to get these programs working...or be able to understand the scripts they aquire to make sure they didn't include automation, etc?

The people who post here with 1 post and have it immeadiately be asking for a free keyclone type program are, for the most part, idiots imho and the only real answer to give them (if we're not just looking to flame them away and keep a high quality, low quantity feel to this community) is to tell them if they can't afford $20 for keyclone then this isn't for them.

It's in no-one's interests to hand-feed these posters to AHK, HKN, etc because in the long-run we'll just be creating more work for ourselves as we have to hand-feed them scripts and tutorials on how to get even the most basic thing done. We can also see from experience that they'll never take any of the info on-board in terms of expanding on what they are given and learn to create their own scripts in future, nope they'll be right back again with their next post asking again how to do something and it will repeat over and over.

I agree with you that looking to get something for free rather than paying isn't an indicator of breaching ToS, after all look at how quickly we snap at people on the general forums claiming multiboxers don't pay for their accounts, but I will vehemently disagree with you that people like OP should be told about options other than Keyclone...for our own sanity as much as theirs.

[OzPhoenix]

ok.. all i want to know is...

are there fangirls and are they cute? (i'm thinking nightelves here... no trolls or dwarves please :D )

So five male Taurens aren't going to do it for you? 8)

[Occam's Razor]

so hello i´m new and i dont know how to do this without paying?!

(sry for my bad english^^) i´m searching an program to do multi-boxing

i know a program with is free but i need more pc´s for this program an that suc*s :pinch: for 1 acc 1 pc thats not good?!!!

i want a program like keyclone without paying and so...

pls help me^^ ans pls in easy english ;D

Well, for ONE he should probably be posting in the German section of the forum,
Two, he did NOT ask for a free version of keyclone, he specifically said "I want a program LIKE Keyclone, without paying", given his English skills, that means "I'd like a program that's like Keyclone, but free"

I'm not sure what program he's referring to when he says "I know of a program that is free, but I need more PC's for this program, and that sucks, XD, for 1 account = 1 pc, that's not good."
but he's definetly looking to run multiple instances of WOW on one comp, and wants something like Keyclone, but free.

So I guess he's looking for Octopus or Autohotkey, or Hotkey.net

Speculating on WHY he doesn't want to pay for multiboxing software is pointless and argumentative, and honestly just makes this place sound like the "General Discussion" section of the WOW forums.

Everybody there is either Perry Mason (A lawyer, TV show in the late 60's), a Private detective, a Mind reader or all of the above.
Unfortunately it's too easy nowadays to jump to conclusions and accusations, I can just imagine what the world would've been like during the Salem Witch Trials or the Spanish Inquisition had there had been an Internet back then :wacko:

With all the wonderful things the Internet brings to us (Information on just about anything, at our fingertips) the unfortunate truth is, the number one usage of the Internet for most
of us is, it allows people from all over the world to anonymously insult and accuse each other, without ever having to meet and say any of these things face to face.

Yay technology 8|


P.S. (I doubt any of us would criticize someone who was in the process of remodeling a home, or building a home, and asking if they knew of a place to get free lumber, as a matter of fact, I think most of us
would wish that person luck, and acknowledge just how expensive the process is, and wish them luck on finding free lumber, and some would make suggestions or post links on where to get it)

[Vyndree]

I'm not sure what program he's referring to when he says "I know of a program that is free, but I need more PC's for this program, and that sucks, XD, for 1 account = 1 pc, that's not good."
but he's definetly looking to run multiple instances of WOW on one comp, and wants something like Keyclone, but free.

In which case I did start off with a friendly link to another thread asking his EXACT same question. ;) In essense, the response is that thread is "here are links to other software that works and is for free -- look them up".

The "fanboi'"s don't start jumping on people unless...
a) there are multiple IDENTICAL threads on the FRONT PAGE of the forum the OP is posting on.... check
b) the question itself is ANSWERED in multiple stickies and wiki pages... check
c) given the above two options, the OP wants to be handfed information -- as seen by quotes like "plz help URGENT" or "help plz make it easy" and lack of "I tried searching and..." or "I can't find the answer anywhere..." ... check

[Occam's Razor]

In which case I did start off with a friendly link to another thread asking his EXACT same question. ;) In essense, the response is that thread is "here are links to other software that works and is for free -- look them up".

The "fanboi'"s don't start jumping on people unless...
a) there are multiple IDENTICAL threads on the FRONT PAGE of the forum the OP is posting on.... check
b) the question itself is ANSWERED in multiple stickies and wiki pages... check
c) given the above two options, the OP wants to be handfed information -- as seen by quotes like "plz help URGENT" or "help plz make it easy" and lack of "I tried searching and..." or "I can't find the answer anywhere..." ... checkI'll give you those points :)

However, his name was definetly German, and he DID say "ans pls in easy english", which to me says, a lot of people were probably wasting a lot of typing time because
he's not really good at reading long, involved flames/arguments in English, and possibly wanted help in being pointed to the correct thread of one of the free MB software out there
due to his English skills.

I suppose if I went to a German forum and knew a few German words, I would ask the same thing in really bad German, because I wouldn't know what words to type in a search
engine, and with what little German I knew, I certainly wouldn't be able to glean any information from the titles of stickies etc...or even which stickies to read

I just like to give the 'benefit of the doubt" before hitting my "judgment" hotkey ^^

I know that on all forums (I do it myself on other forums) the long-time regulars get extremely tired of people hopping in a forum with a '1 post history' and say things like "help plz LOL" etc,
and I KNOW there are a LOT of lazy jerks out there that do just that, even though all the information they need is right on the front page, right next to a large red candy-like button that says "SEARCH",
but I tend to look at these on a case-by-case basis, is the person just being lazy with a "lollers hlep plox"! or does it look like they can barely understand what they're typing in a different language?

Oh well, I don't mean to drag this thread out, just food for thought I guess

[Gaffy]

Bolded by me for emphasis
so hello i´m new and i dont know how to do this without paying?!

(sry for my bad english^^) i´m searching an program to do multi-boxing

i know a program with is free but i need more pc´s for this program an that suc*s xD for 1 acc 1 pc thats not good?!!!

i want a program like keyclone without paying and so...

pls help me^^ ans pls in easy english ;DPlease not that he is asking for a program like keyclone that is free, not a free copy of keyclone.

and due to his request of "easy english" leads me to believe that he could have trouble reading/understanding the stickies.

To the OP, try octopus, it works with 2+ accounts on one PC, and it is similar to keyclone.

[Ifalna]

Speculating on WHY he doesn't want to pay for multiboxing software is pointless and argumentative, and honestly just makes this place sound like the "General Discussion" section of the WOW forums.

Everybody there is either Perry Mason (A lawyer, TV show in the late 60's), a Private detective, a Mind reader or all of the above.
Unfortunately it's too easy nowadays to jump to conclusions and accusations, I can just imagine what the world would've been like during the Salem Witch Trials or the Spanish Inquisition had there had been an Internet back then :wacko: Yep.
I love how people are trying to argue that implying people who want a free alternative are tos breakers or thieves is fine.

Bashing someone that hard for not wanting to use the program you like is fanboyism. Not the " Go look through the stickies" or "Ur English is bad you mean free boxing or free keyclone?".
I like how no one has attempted to justify that yet, and thats what Im complaining about. Jumping down someones throat and making implications that factless and insulting, are beyond retarded and don't belong on any forum. Simple.

Feel free to keep saying I'm missing the point, I wasn't aware this forum catered specifically to keyclone, and implying you want a free alternative (people use the name keyclone to describe any broadcast prog, they don't know any better, and this guy's english isint great ) is enough to be told that because you won't pay, your obviously cheating. Once again the problem isint with how the op waas treated, because the was sent to the stickies, thats fine. It was the retardedly stupid comments afterwards.

[Otlecs]

I've PM'd the original poster with useful information and short, concise, English sentences.

For some reason that just seemed the common sense thing to do.

[Eifersucht]

Bolded by me for emphasis

Please not that he is asking for a program like keyclone that is free, not a free copy of keyclone.

and due to his request of "easy english" leads me to believe that he could have trouble reading/understanding the stickies.

To the OP, try octopus, it works with 2+ accounts on one PC, and it is similar to keyclone.oh yes i have searched for this program but its not so easy to handle i think ?!! ^^
i have tested the programm, but i didnt know what exactly to do.
could u pls post an introduction for that prog (maybe in german :D)?

[Occam's Razor]

Multiboxer aus Deutschland
http://www.dual-boxing.com/forums/index.php?page=Board&boardID=14



Sammlung häufig gestellter Fragen, nützlicher Links und Guides <------------ !
Sammlung häufig gestellter Fragen, nützlicher Links und Guides <------------ ! ('http://www.dual-boxing.com/forums/index.php?page=Thread&threadID=7971')

[neux]

I compleatly agree with Occam's Razor ('http://www.dual-boxing.com/forums/index.php?page=User&userID=7672') on all his post in this tread.

The only thing I regret now, not buying keyclone earlier for $10 :(
and I don't think keyclone any easier/harder to learn or configure then Octopus/Hotkey.net, but Autohotkey is different story. it is way too complicated for my tastes.

It took me some time and research before realizing what some option do in keyclone, like what "keymap editor" do, and how to configure it.
I didn't even knew what "Command editor" do or what it is for until I found only one useful guide here on board, because all general FAQ on keyclone is just basic stuff to let you start, but no sufficient to do anything to full potential of keyclone :(

[Gurblash]

Hotkey.net, but Autohotkey is different story. it is way too complicated for my tastes.

Not to mention border line against the TOS/EULA for using outside macros and delay functions as well as possibilities to loop.

[Vyndree]

However, his name was definetly German, and he DID say "ans pls in easy english", which to me says, a lot of people were probably wasting a lot of typing time because
he's not really good at reading long, involved flames/arguments in English, and possibly wanted help in being pointed to the correct thread of one of the free MB software out there
due to his English skills.

Correct -- unfortunately my ability to identify foreign languages isn't great otherwise I could have moved him to the German forum (assuming that people's usernames are indeed named after their natural language). Perhaps if the OP would have had the chance to post more than once he would have clearly identified himself as German or wanting to move to the German forum and we could have done so.

Real quickly I want to state that I'm not taking sides in either of these, just trying to show some perspective so people don't turn this thread into a "He said, she said" argument. You'll see that my first post was a simple point-in-the-right direction and everything past that was just clarification on why the thread has degenerated into the state it has, as well as trying to calm people down so they don't lynch each other.

In any case, I can still see both sides of the coin. The German forum is still there -- he could still do a search IN GERMAN and come up with some useful topics. As I understand our german mod is also translating our stickies to german and writing his own german stickies. He could have also scrolled down and found some posts in his native language (if german IS his native language) and put his post in the correct place. So, I would have to say at this point both sides are still correct -- the OP doesn't seem to want to put a lot of effort into finding his answers -- which doesn't make for a person who will likely succeed finding answers on the free keyclone-like programs, and multiboxers who want things for free are not necesssarily TOU/EULA breakers.

[Freddie]

Hotkey.net, but Autohotkey is different story. it is way too complicated for my tastes.

Not to mention border line against the TOS/EULA for using outside macros and delay functions as well as possibilities to loop.
A person can use a kitchen knife to commit murder, but that doesn't mean kitchen knives are illegal. On the other hand, sawed-off shotguns are illegal in the U.S. all by themselves.

Programs are the same way. Some are kitchen knives and others are sawed-off shotguns.

So far as I know, AutoHotKey doesn't violate any rules. It's like a kitchen knife. People can use it in ways that break rules, but that's entirely up to them. The program itself doesn't violate anything.

Other programs are like sawed-off shotguns. All by themselves, regardless of how you use them, they break Blizzard's rules by reading packets or writing memory in WoW's address space. I can't name examples in this forum, but you probably know what I mean. One of these programs has been in the news a lot lately because Blizzard is suing its publisher.

[Gurblash]

Hotkey.net, but Autohotkey is different story. it is way too complicated for my tastes.

Not to mention border line against the TOS/EULA for using outside macros and delay functions as well as possibilities to loop.
A person can use a kitchen knife to commit murder, but that doesn't mean kitchen knives are illegal. On the other hand, sawed-off shotguns are illegal in the U.S. all by themselves.

Programs are the same way. Some are kitchen knives and others are sawed-off shotguns.

So far as I know, AutoHotKey doesn't violate any rules. It's like a kitchen knife. People can use it in ways that break rules, but that's entirely up to them. The program itself doesn't violate anything.

Other programs are like sawed-off shotguns. All by themselves, regardless of how you use them, they break Blizzard's rules by reading packets or writing memory in WoW's address space. I can't name examples in this forum, but you probably know what I mean. One of these programs has been in the news a lot lately because Blizzard is suing its publisher.


<Hotkey F1>
<SendPC local>
<SendWinM wow1>
<Text /><Wait 100><Text cast [target=focus-target-target] HolyLight><Key Enter>
<SendWinM wow2>
<Text /><Wait 100><Text cast [target=focus-target-target] HolyLight><Key Enter>
Please note that a <wait> is usually required because WoW takes a long time to move the cursor to the chat line. Some people think this type of hotkey violates Blizzard's rules, so use it at your own risk.

"Heres a knife, heres who you can use it on, heres how you can do it... but I should warn you its against the rules." To my knowledge said person who gave the knife, who showed them how to use it, and what to use it on... would be an accessory to a crime. Not to cross planes between a software and shanking someone, just completing your Euphamism.

The difference between 'said program that shall not be named' and HKN/AHK is that in their current state they are Free Software and are not as publicly known as 'that program that we shall not name.'

These scripting interfaces don't belong on this community anymore than 'the program that shall not be named' does.

... yes I just went THERE.

[Khazrael]

And thus, the Gurblash did pick up his mighty sword. He used it to smite his foes, in a blaze of purity and light they were vanquished.

I'm going to give Gurblash' post a big fat QUOTED FOR TRUTH.

[Vyndree]

I'm going to give Gurblash' post a big fat QUOTED FOR TRUTH.

I would have to agree.

I rarely encourage newbies to use AHK because, out of pure ignorance/innocense, they might accidentally break the rules and get banned. It's like people who got banned for using the delay capabilities of the Logitech G15 just because they saw World of Warcraft stats advertized on the logitech website and assumed the entire thing would be legit.

It's not to say that you WILL get banned for using AHK in a non-rulebreaking way... But Blizzard has banned people for using Innerspace (not the bot) in a non-rulebreaking way simply because Innerspace started becoming heavily associated with certain botting programs. Death by association. During one of these mass banwaves (thanks to the automatic warden flagging or however they found them), it can take weeks just to get a RESPONSE from account administration. So, even if you're innocent, you'll have to spend weeks trying to prove it to Blizzard.

Would you want to take that chance?

[Freddie]

To my knowledge said person who gave the knife, who showed them how to use it, and what to use it on... would be an accessory to a crime. Not to cross planes between a software and shanking someone, just completing your Euphamism.
Well sir, you've accused me of being an accessory to a crime. This is a serious charge, so I must stand trial. Let's lay the facts on the table. The following link shows what I tell people about using HotkeyNet with WoW. You be the judge!

Playing by the Rules ('http://www.hotkeynet.com/wow/wow-rules.html')

Edit: And since you singled out the Wait command, please note the warning to WoW players on the page that describes that command:

Wait ('http://www.hotkeynet.com/ref/wait.html')

[Gurblash]

To my knowledge said person who gave the knife, who showed them how to use it, and what to use it on... would be an accessory to a crime. Not to cross planes between a software and shanking someone, just completing your Euphamism.
Well sir, you've accused me of being an accessory to a crime. This is a serious charge, so I must stand trial. Let's lay the facts on the table. The following link shows what I tell people about using HotkeyNet with WoW. You be the judge!

Playing by the Rules ('http://www.hotkeynet.com/wow/wow-rules.html')

I bet 'program that shall not be named' had the same thing infact I even went through the trouble of finding it for ya.


Q: Is using 'PROGRAM THAT SHALL NOT BE NAMED' cause for suspension/ban?
A: Yes, 'PROGRAM THAT SHALL NOT BE NAMED' is against the Terms of Service as provided by Blizzard for World of Warcraft. If you are detected using 'PROGRAM THAT SHALL NOT BE NAMED', your account will be suspended for 72 hours and very likely banned completely. While 'PROGRAM THAT SHALL NOT BE NAMED' does not violate any of the terms listed under Blizzard's "Client/Server Manipulation Policy", it is still a third-party program and their Terms of Service are very open in what falls under that definition, meaning they can find you in violation for pretty much anything they want.
'PROGRAM THAT SHALL NOT BE NAMED' provides a number of features to help lower the risk of detection - for more information, see the next topic.

Bottom line: use at your own risk.

Last I heard they were in court....

[Khazrael]

If you ask me, the only different here is exposure. Both programs do some things that are perfectly legitimate, but has the capacity to do things that are not. One happens to have gained more exposure, and also made a bit of money, whereas the other hasn't.

If the other followed the same route, gained the same amount of exposure and made the same amount of money, it probably stands to reason that Blizzard would turn their all seeing eye towards it as well.

[Freddie]

I bet 'program that shall not be named' had the same thing infact I even went through the trouble of finding it for ya.
The Nameless Program is getting sued because it allows automation. The technical ground for the lawsuit is copyright violation, because the program reads WoW's memory and makes a copy of it.

HotkeyNet doesn't do anything like that. It can't do automation because it doesn't have loops or any method of detecting what's happening inside WoW. It can't be sued for copyright violation because it doesn't copy WoW's memory or even look at WoW's memory.

Honestly, really, it's crystal clear to programmers that there is a gigantic difference between the types of programs we're discussing. One type of program (the nameless kind) reads WoW's adress space, writes WoW's address space, reads WoW's packets, hooks WoW's DLL's, etc. This is blatantly against the rules. The other type doesn't do that sort of thing. None of the programs discussed in this forum are in the first category, so far as I know.

By the way, I'd really like your opinion of those pages I linked. Do you think they are okay? Do you think they should be changed?

[Gurblash]

Blizzard is: 911 Operator, Police Officer, Investegaitor, Jailor, Legal Council, Attorney General, Evidence Keeper, Judge, Jury, and Executioneer here (there are probably a few I forgot). There are no "rights" of the accused. And they can change thier mind whenever they want, without having to tell anybody, and with no reprecussions.

So why you can argue till your blue in the face about this or that - it doesn't matter - at alll. If someone at Blizzard doesn't like it, its over. Period.

Then it is their opinion I shall seek.

[Freddie]

Here is the flaw in the arguments though. You're comparing Blizzard's policy to US Laws... wrong!
I wasn't arguing. I was using an analogy to explain the significance of "violating a program's address space" since it's hard for non-programmers to understand. Of course you're right that laws and game rules are different.

[Occam's Razor]

Correct -- unfortunately my ability to identify foreign languages isn't great otherwise I could have moved him to the German forum (assuming that people's usernames are indeed named after their natural language). Perhaps if the OP would have had the chance to post more than once he would have clearly identified himself as German or wanting to move to the German forum and we could have done so.

Real quickly I want to state that I'm not taking sides in either of these, just trying to show some perspective so people don't turn this thread into a "He said, she said" argument. You'll see that my first post was a simple point-in-the-right direction and everything past that was just clarification on why the thread has degenerated into the state it has, as well as trying to calm people down so they don't lynch each other.

In any case, I can still see both sides of the coin. The German forum is still there -- he could still do a search IN GERMAN and come up with some useful topics. As I understand our german mod is also translating our stickies to german and writing his own german stickies. He could have also scrolled down and found some posts in his native language (if german IS his native language) and put his post in the correct place. So, I would have to say at this point both sides are still correct -- the OP doesn't seem to want to put a lot of effort into finding his answers -- which doesn't make for a person who will likely succeed finding answers on the free keyclone-like programs, and multiboxers who want things for free are not necesssarily TOU/EULA breakers.Well, I'm fascinated with etymology, so I love studying patterns and common spellings and phrases that people who speak other languages are trying to type in English.
It also helps that on other forums I frequent, that I've had German and Spanish speaking forum members pointing out how people who speak those languages make some very common mistakes, in their phrasing, and spelling (kind of easy to spot really, since English is pretty much the only language that will put the Adjective BEFORE the Noun, whereas all other languages (AFAIK) put the noun BEFORE the adjective.

Example: In English we would say "Put on that Green Sweater", now if you LITERALLY translated most other languages on a word-for-word basis, they would translate "Put on that Sweater Green"
This is how it's works for me anyway. :P

It's just in my nature to watch out for the 'underdog' or 'newbie' I guess.

THE FOLLOWING IS NOT A FLAME, it is just what I thought, and my interpretations

What was going through my mind when I started reading the flames and intolerance in this thread at the beginning was, "How can a community that gets so falsely accused of cheating and botting
on an almost DAILY basis and hating the fact that these allegations get thrown at them CONSTANTLY", can so quickly jump on the accusation bandwagon and start accusing this newbie of:

1. Wanting a pirated version of Keyclone. (If everyone had exercised a bit more reading comprehension and less jumping to conclusions it would've helped here)
2. Being a 'loser' for wanting a FREE software solution to multiboxing, because each account costs $15, how DARE anyone try to cut a little bit of expense off! ^^ (that's like saying "Hey you bought a HumVee, you HAVE to buy the expensive gas!)
3. And getting the argument that if you have the money to have multiple accounts, then everything else you do that requires Mulitboxing ALSO has to be expensive (sounds a little elitist actually) ;)
4. Being lazy (there are no 'lazy' multiboxers, multiple key presses/combinations FTW!) :D

Anyway, your points are well taken Vyndree, I just wanted to give my honest side and view of this entire thing as well

You have my respect for what you do on the official forums, and I guess you can say, in a way, I was emulating you, by sticking up for that guy here, that everyone jumped on, just like how you defend
(almost daily) multiboxers who are blindly jumped on in the Blizzard forums

Peace
/Hugs

[Otlecs]

I just want to say how glad I am to have Occam's Razor in this thread and in our community. What he so eloquently says saves me a whole load of typing :)

[Ifalna]

I just want to say how glad I am to have Occam's Razor in this thread and in our community. What he so eloquently says saves me a whole load of typing :)Fully agree /clap

[Vyndree]

Anyway, your points are well taken Vyndree, I just wanted to give my honest side and view of this entire thing as well

Absolutely, and I respect yours and everyone else's honest opinions on this board :)

Sometimes people can be too quick to jump to conclusions -- that was my primary concern in this case. It's very easy to take offense from the typed word because it's hard to convey emotions without billions of these guys: :) :( ;) :P :D

So I would say my only comment here is (to everyone) -- be careful with what you say. You may be right, but people might not interpret your words with the same emotion as you intended. When you're reading someone else's post, it's usually good to assume that they mean the best -- they're usually not attacking you. And if you have a problem with the "tone" in someone's post or you feel personally attacked feel free to talk to a mod and we'd be happy to mediate. If you're writing a post, re-read it before you hit "submit" to make sure that you've written something clearly and hopefully won't get taken the wrong way.

In any case, it's all common sense but I thought I'd throw that out there. :)

[Frosty]

Can we all just have a group hug now?..... X 5? :P

[Ughmahedhurtz]

Yes, you alliance folks do a group hug.

/cast blast wave
/aoe spam

[Occam's Razor]

Yes, you alliance folks do a group hug.

/cast blast wave
/aoe spamROTFLMAO!!!

Love your Avatar BTW :D

[Frosty]

Yes, you alliance folks do a group hug.

/cast blast wave
/aoe spam
Bah!

Shaman:
/cast little totems made of WIN

Paladin:
/cast magical I WIN spell

/flex :thumbup:

[Draku]

So.....could somebody summarise this long undulating thread?

After skimming, it appears that a newcomer should assume that Keyclone is legal (I wonder if Blizzard would agree with this) and HKN/AHK are illegal (By Legal and Illegal I mean in the eyes of Blizzard)

There is also some suggestion that this forum should not support the programs so described as illegal.

I am SURE I have this wrong, but perhaps a mod or Vyndreee could clarify

[Frosty]

So.....could somebody summarise this long undulating thread?

After skimming, it appears that a newcomer should assume that Keyclone is legal (I wonder if Blizzard would agree with this) and HKN/AHK are illegal (By Legal and Illegal I mean in the eyes of Blizzard)

There is also some suggestion that this forum should not support the programs so described as illegal.

I am SURE I have this wrong, but perhaps a mod or Vyndreee could clarify

I am fighting to not be mean.. You are asking us to go back and do the work for you because you don't want to read.

HKN and AHK are not illegal, but you can use them in a way that could be in the eyes of Blizzard. Just be careful with what you are doing, and read the Wiki and other threads to make sure you aren't doing something that is "known" to be illegal. This part you will have to do, all the information is there that you could need.

Good luck! :D

[Draku]

Thanks for not being mean. I appreciate it. (Although you slightly misunderstood my post)

I also appreciate your concise and fair summary...

'HKN and AHK are not illegal, but you can use them in a way that could be in the eyes of Blizzard.'

Just like the Logitech G15 keyboard I guess,......

The only thing I would add is....

I DO NOT BELIEVE Blizzard have confirmed that any of the Software tools by name are legal or not. (Interestingly, they did for the G15)

[Frosty]

Thanks for not being mean. I appreciate it. (Although you slightly misunderstood my post)

I also appreciate your concise and fair summary...

'HKN and AHK are not illegal, but you can use them in a way that could be in the eyes of Blizzard.'

Just like the Logitech G15 keyboard I guess,......

The only thing I would add is....

I DO NOT BELIEVE Blizzard have confirmed that any of the Software tools by name are legal or not. (Interestingly, they did for the G15)
I'm still waking up with coffee, so, sorry if I misunderstood. ;)

I don't have any info on the G15 or the confirmed software tools. All I do know is automation = bad. 1 key press should = 1 key press (but 1 key press can = 1 key press to 5 accounts).

[Vyndree]

confirmed that any of the Software tools by name are legal or not.

They can't confirm because software can be updated. If the software gets updated in the future and become against policy, they would have to spend time/effort to rescind their statements.

The logitech g15, on the other hand, is (for the most part) hardware. They've made statements regarding the macro capabilities of the G15 in general.



We have many quotes of relevance both on the g15 keyboard and multiboxing (including software) at the GM conversations wiki ('http://dual-boxing.com/wiki/index.php/GM_Conversations').




But yeah, the summary of the thread is -- Keyclone is not free. There are free resources, but to the uninformed user they are not recommended as they have the ABILITY to break the rules if used incorrectly. However, the use of these tools does not make you a cheater -- it just requires more work on the user's part to both fully understand the rules and to implement a multiboxing solution using these tools that is inline with the rules. Just like the G15.

[Freddie]

They can't confirm because software can be updated. If the software gets updated in the future and become against policy, they would have to spend time/effort to rescind their statements.

The logitech g15, on the other hand, is (for the most part) hardware. They've made statements regarding the macro capabilities of the G15 in general.
I'm sure you're right that this explains Blizzard's reasoning. This is a common view, and Blizzard probably shares it. However I don't think this reasoning is correct. When you buy a piece of hardware today, you usually get a package that contains an enormous amount of software. People call these packages "drivers" but they aren't only drivers in the technical sense of the word "driver," they are actually suites with multiple drivers, services, service control programs, installers, automatic updaters, etc. I wouldn't be surprised if the G15 includes ten times as much software as HotkeyNet and AutoHotKey put together.

Included with the software that comes with the G15, there must be some that does the same sorts of things as AutoHotkey and HotkeyNet. The difference is, the G15's software acts on signals generated by a specialized keyboard, whereas AutoHotkey and HotkeyNet act on signals generated by ordinary keyboards. Therefore a product like the G15 must supply its own device driver, whereas AutoHotKey and HotkeyNet rely on the Windows keyboard driver. This means a product like the G15 must necessarily include software which is similar to AutoHotKey or HotkeyNet, and then supply even more.

[Draku]

I'm sure you're right that this explains Blizzard's reasoning. This is a common view, and Blizzard probably shares it. However I don't think this reasoning is correct. When you buy a piece of hardware today, you usually get a package that contains an enormous amount of software. People call these packages "drivers" but they aren't only drivers in the technical sense of the word "driver," they are actually suites with multiple drivers, services, service control programs, installers, automatic updaters, etc. I wouldn't be surprised if the G15 includes ten times as much software as HotkeyNet and AutoHotKey put together.

Included with the software that comes with the G15, there must be some that does the same sorts of things as AutoHotkey and HotkeyNet. The difference is, the G15's software acts on signals generated by a specialized keyboard, whereas AutoHotkey and HotkeyNet act on signals generated by ordinary keyboards. Therefore a product like the G15 must supply its own device driver, wherease AuthotKey and HotkeyNet rely on the Windows keyboard driver. This means a product like the G15 must necessarily supply all the software contained in a program like AutoHotKey or HotkeyNet, and then supply even more.

I agree....I reckon anything 'illegal' you can do with HKN you can also do with a G15.....

Regarding Vyndree's comment 'but to the uninformed user they are not recommended' Rather than this, I would suggest that the user take a little time to become informed and thereby make a decision based on facts
.......

[Frosty]

Regarding Vyndree's comment 'but to the uninformed user they are not recommended' Rather than this, I would suggest that the user take a little time to become informed and thereby make a decision based on facts
.......
I agree with you for the most part.
This is where the problem is though... "Some" of the uninformed can't be bothered to read-up and become informed. Or as we all like to refer to it "RTFM". :P

And I think as a whole, the community would rather see them not get in trouble either way as it reflects poorly on those who do take the time to read and become informed.
If one person is caught "cheating" then it might lead Blizzard to crack down on some of the freedoms we enjoy as multi-boxers.

Just my thoughts. ;)

[Gurblash]

Regarding Vyndree's comment 'but to the uninformed user they are not recommended' Rather than this, I would suggest that the user take a little time to become informed and thereby make a decision based on facts
.......

Ahh what the hell I'll bite. Gonna use the knife analogy :D. I prefer to not give children knives, yes they can be safe but if used wrong can cut ya deep. I prefer that they start out with nerf darts and plastic swords.

"I can't recommend using AHK or HKN simply for the fact that its not something I would use myself. I also can't suggest them for the fact that even if used correctly there is that chance of abuse and I don't want to lead someone down a path that is open for abuse." :thumbsup:

[Freddie]

This is where the problem is though... "Some" of the uninformed can't be bothered to read-up and become informed. Or as we all like to refer to it "RTFM". :P
People like that can't use HotkeyNet and AutoHotKey, so this isn't a problem.

These programs have their own built-in screening tests. If you are able to use them, you're certainly capable of sticking to the rules.

Some parts of this thread make it sound like you need an Einsteinian IQ to avoid breaking the rules. In fact it's very simple to avoid breaking the rules.

Edit: Gurblash's post crossed this one, but I would have said the same thing to him too.

[Gurblash]

These programs have their own built-in screening tests. If you are able to use them, you're certainly capable of sticking to the rules.

*QQ EDIT* I'm quite capable of using either AHK and HKN AND I'm quite capable of breaking the rules.

[Frosty]

This is where the problem is though... "Some" of the uninformed can't be bothered to read-up and become informed. Or as we all like to refer to it "RTFM". :P
People like that can't use HotkeyNet and AutoHotKey, so this isn't a problem.

These programs have their own built-in screening tests. If you are able to use them, you're certainly capable of sticking to the rules.

Some parts of this thread make it sound like you need an Einsteinian IQ to avoid breaking the rules. In fact it's very simple to avoid breaking the rules.

Edit: Gurblash's post crossed this one, but I would have said the same thing to him too.
I agree, you don't have to be Einstein to avoid breaking the rules, but even I have been guilty at one point or another of not reading/learning before using software or even every day items.

Sometimes the "neat" factor outweighs the desire to read a manual first. That was more my point, sorry if it came off as arrogant. ;)

[Freddie]

Sometimes the "neat" factor outweighs the desire to read a manual first. That was more my point, sorry if it came off as arrogant. ;)
It didn't sound arrogant. I'm sorry if I sounded like I thought it was! :)

I want to stick to that main point too. That's why I keep saying, you can't use these programs without reading the manual. And every page of HotkeyNet's manual that could possibly break a WoW rule, has a warning to WoW players on it. For example:

Wait in HotkeyNet (http://hotkeynet.com/ref/wait.html)

Getting back to the knife analogy, these programs are like knifes that are so heavy, a child can't lift them. The task of writing a script file is like a tamper-proof cap on a medicine bottle -- it keeps the kiddies out.

[Freddie]

These programs have their own built-in screening tests. If you are able to use them, you're certainly capable of sticking to the rules.

Thats the biggest crock of shit... I'm quite capable of using either AHK and HKN AND I'm quite capable of breaking the rules.
You are using "capable" in a different way than I did. You're talking about doing something knowingly. I was talking about the ability to avoid doing something by accident.

My responsibility is to protect people from breaking the rules without their realizing it.

And by the way, I don't like your use of the words "crock of shit." I've been talking to you honestly, politely, and in good faith.


Temptation is a dangerous thing. Even if its illegal, if theres a small chance of not being caught, it can sometimes look good.
If you think a program might seduce you into doing something you wouldn't otherwise want to do, then by all means, you should stay away from it.

But I don't think this is a risk for most people.

[Vyndree]

Regarding Vyndree's comment 'but to the uninformed user they are not recommended' Rather than this, I would suggest that the user take a little time to become informed and thereby make a decision based on facts

I didn't say it wasn't possible, it just wasn't recommended.

A person who needs to be handfed (i.e. recommended) information about multiboxing is probably someone who needs to also be handfed the rules. I can't stomach taking responsibility for that. It would essentially become "my fault" morally (keep in mind my morals are my own) that they accidentally stumbled across something that broke the rules and got themselves banned.

A person who is motivated enough to figure out how to set up AHK on their own is a person motivated enough to figure out the rules on their own. And I have no responsibility for their actions if they do decide to use it in a way that breaks the rules.

Alternatives to keyclone are clearly available and as you can see in the 2nd post in this thread -- they were pointed out. But I'm not going to handhold someone to teach them how to use it -- for one, I don't even know how (I'm a hardware boxer) and two, even if I did know how to do it, I wouldn't want to also hand feed them the entirety of the EULA/Terms so that they don't accidentally get themselves banned. We're talking about showing a person HOW to use AHK, etc. While the warnings are in the manual (where the motivated multiboxer WILL find them), the moment we start copy/pasting chunks of it into the forum we might start to lose those warnings as they get quoted and passed along.

I think linking the wiki is good enough to point them in the right direction if they are motivated enough to follow through. If they go to the wiki, they will find the guides that show them how to set things up. Furthermore, the wiki has links to the GM conversations about automation and 3rd party software, and as I understand the setup guides have plenty of warnings when they show an example of things that might be against the rules. I just can't feel comfortable being responsible -- even only partially -- to someone getting banned from innocent misuse.

If they're not motivated enough to follow through with learning things themselves (including the rules/EULA), then they can buy keyclone or just not multibox. Just my opinion.

[Freddie]

While the warnings are in the manual (where the motivated multiboxer WILL find them), the moment we start copy/pasting chunks of it into the forum we might start to lose those warnings as they get quoted and passed along.
That's a good point. When HotkeyNet's beta test began, I was careless about providing examples because I don't play WoW and didn't know anything about its rules. If somebody asked me a question, my tendency was to give them a factual answer. Lately I've become more sensitive to this issue and more careful about what I post.