new build, hardware experts rejoice :)

[Knytestorme]

Ok, heading into tax time here in aus and looking to build a system up asap to take into account tax benefits.

PC will be used primarily for games development and video/DAW work, along with multiboxing WoW (5 instances) and a file/sql server...ie, it will be my general goto pc in most instances for work or play related functions.

Motherboard eVGA nForce 780i SLI 775 A1: 1333MHz FSB, 4xDDR2/800(2x), 1xATA/133, 6xSATA/300, 3xSLIx16xPCI-E, 2xGigaLAN, 7.1 Sound, Firewire, ATX

CPU Intel Core 2 Quad 'Q9450' CPU - LGA775, 4x2.66GHz, 2x6Mb, 1333MHz

RAM 2 x Crucial Ballistix Tracer 4Gb 800MHz CAS 4-4-4-12 DDR2 Memory Kit - 2 x 2Gb, LEDs

Hard Drives 6 x 1000Gb Western Digital Caviar GP 7200rpm Hard Drive - S/ATA-II, 16Mb - 3Y

Floppy Drive Sony 1.44Mb Floppy Drive - Black

DVD Writer LG GSA-H55NBBK Internal DVD Writer - P/ATA, Drive + Software - Black

Video Card 2 x eVGA GeForce 9800 GX2 1Gb 16xPCI-E Video Card - 600MHz/2.0GHz - 2xDVI, HDMI Out

Video Capture FusionHDTV DVB-T Dual Digital 4 TV Tuner - 1xPCI-E

Case Antec Twelve Hundred ATX Case w/ *NO PSU* - Black

Power Supply SilverStone ST1000 1000w ATX 2.2 Power Supply - 135mm Fan, 4xPCI-E6, 2xPCI-E8 - Black

My main concerns here are:

* Should I look at going with an asus 780 that will support 1066MHz ram and the appropriate ram (will I see much of an increase over the 800) or if I should bite the bullet and go with a 790 and DDR3 (decided against this as I can see by the time I need to upgrade there will be new cpu arch and pin layout anyway)

* Will the PSU be up to the task or should I look at one of the modular 1200w Silverstones?

* Will the 2 GX2's run 4 monitors without a drop in fps when not in SLI?

Overall I think this build meets my needs and has a decent tradeoff between price and power (eg the Q9550 is an extra $300 but don't think I'd see enough increase to make that worth it) but I am open to suggestions and advice so have at it.

Budget for the build is about $6k AUS (including 4 BenQ 22" monitors @ $300 each) so there is about $4800Aus for the actual PC.

[spannah]

Wow.

That is quite the system. I am not sure what DAW means, or what kind of game dev you will be doing, but it certainly is overkill for 5-man WoW - but I am sure you know that ;)

I am not sure about running a SQL and file server out of a gaming machine, that is likely to have an impact on performance - unless you planing to stop the servers when you play.

Also, have you considered 4 inexpensive boxes for your clones instead of such a beefy main computer?

Otherwise looks solid!

[Knytestorme]

DAW = Digital Audio Workstation....basically running Sonar & Reason + the apps for my guitar and keyboards to do musical work. It needs beefiness + lots of file storage, as will tv ripping for when I'm not home.

Basically this will only be getting impacted as an sql server while I am doing dev work, and file serving will be while streaming video or audio at night or while friends are round and want to watch something (a way to save me having to worry about my dvd collection getting damaged or having to watch tv shows at a time that doesn't suit me).

And yeah, it's likely overkill for multiboxing but for what else I need to do, or playing Flight Sim X, it should be a decent option until the next round of pin changes :) The main concern for me is with the subsystems I have never bothered to worry about too much, such as the difference between DDR2 and 3 or CAS timings etc and so was hoping some people here would be more knowledgable in that area to help me make a more informed choice.

As for 4 cheaper boxes, I don't really ever like that as an option just for the fact I will often just go bush for a few weeks at a time away from my main place so I can get away from meetings and people, and just work. Having one powerhouse box means I just need to pack it + monitors and I'm good to go for any situation (and no, I have one laptop but I hate trying to do anything but write word documents on it, I love my G15 + a decent size screen :D) so having to worry about moving 4 boxes would just not be feasible.

[Negative1]

Floppy Drive Sony 1.44Mb Floppy Drive - BlackLOL...seriously?!?!

[daviddoran]

Nice system. You might also want to get a combo Blu-Ray/HD-DVD drive in there. HD-DVDs are soon to be in the <$10 bin in wal-mart, so its a cheap way to enjoy HD Movies :)

Also, given the cost, did you look into the dual quad intel board? I bet 4 more cores would help your DAW out immensely, and give even more headroom for 5boxing wow (one core per instance, and 3 for sound :) )

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813121330

The FB-Dimms will kill you even more on cost, but if you are already looking at dual 9800gx2s, it doesn't seem like a few hundred dollars scare you. You could even just put a single quad in there and see how it goes, then add another later, or upgrade both when the 6-8 core cpus come out.

[Knytestorme]

Yeah, I have modified it a little after I found a LiteOn blu-ray burner for around $380Aus....will drop one of the hard drives and put it in in place. I currently have 2 hd-dvd drives from MS, one is on the 360 and the other is a spare in case the first one dies, will then rip all my hd's to the pc and reburn them as blu-ray so the LiteOn being about $600 less than I expected can fit in nicely.

Haven't looked at a dual-quad, could have it's place but think I should be ok...I might actually use my current multibox machine for the DAW, neither Line6 or Digitech have 64-bit drivers yet for the guitar and keyboard workstations I use so there is no point to using them on the new machine...think I'll stick with the single quad at this stage. I'm also going to stick with DDR2 for the moment given how cheap it is, and the next cpu cycle from Intel is going to be a new pin layout so that means a new mb anyway and will get DDR3 then once it's down in price....don't mind paying for things, but like to get value still :D

[Ðeceased]

*wants £3000 pc budget too*

man that's insane :) hope the build goes well and let us know how it handles :) btw just out of curiosity.. what fans are you putting on that baby :P

as for your concern on power usage.. I dunno I've seen some people running 2x GX2s with beefy quadcores and still only get up to around 450W on full load.. which would suggest 1k is enough. but I'm not an expert :S and with that many HDDs anything could happen :P

hmm acctually just looked up yer GX2s ('http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GeForce_9_Series#GeForce_9800_GX2')

[Havelcek]

I just built a very similar machine except I used an Asus Rampage Formula since I prefer Intel chipsets, and a Q6600 and 9800GTX. It easily runs 5 clients across 2 LCDs including Ogrimmar. I'm extremely happy...you will love it.

[spannah]

DDR3, cas timings and so on:

http://www.breakitdownblog.com/ddr2-800-vs-ddr3-1333-does-speed-matter/ ('http://www.breakitdownblog.com/ddr2-800-vs-ddr3-1333-does-speed-matter/')

http://www.digit-life.com/articles3/cpu/ddr2-800-vs-ddr3-1333.html ('http://www.digit-life.com/articles3/cpu/ddr2-800-vs-ddr3-1333.html')

[Wilbur]

Hard Drives 6 x 1000Gb Western Digital Caviar GP 7200rpm Hard Drive - S/ATA-II, 16Mb - 3Y


^^ BASTARD.

[Bovidae]

I am concerned with the use of 2 video cards that have 1gb memory each, and the implications on running a 32bit application. In a nutshell, you will only have 2gb of ram for your OS and 5xWoW, if you dedicate 2gb to video cards. This will be your bottleneck for multiboxing WoW.

[razorbax]

I am concerned with the use of 2 video cards that have 1gb memory each, and the implications on running a 32bit application. In a nutshell, you will only have 2gb of ram for your OS and 5xWoW, if you dedicate 2gb to video cards. This will be your bottleneck for multiboxing WoW.Just don't use XP 32 bit and it will be fine;). Vista and XP64 can handle more RAM.

[spannah]

I am concerned with the use of 2 video cards that have 1gb memory each, and the implications on running a 32bit application. In a nutshell, you will only have 2gb of ram for your OS and 5xWoW, if you dedicate 2gb to video cards. This will be your bottleneck for multiboxing WoW.Just don't use XP 32 bit and it will be fine;). Vista and XP64 can handle more RAM.

Since Knytestorme does mention 8 GB of ram on his listing I sure hope he will be using a 64-bit OS ;)

[Bovidae]

Yes, that would be great, for a 64bit application, but WoW runs in a 32bit environment withing Vist64, which still can only utilize 4gb total.

To test this at home (you Vista64, 8gb ram users) go disable your pagefile.sys, open your hardware monitor, then try to multibox. As things start to load, your total ram usage will increase, then bluescreen due to lack of memory, long long before 8gb are ever used.

WoW will be a problem, graphic design with newer software will be great.

[Knytestorme]

Hmm, that's an interesting point.

I think though that the WoW (Windows on Windows) layer in Vista64 should handle the address space issues, but I would certainly be interested in hearing from someone that can try your suggestion.

[Bovidae]

<====Has personal experience with this issue.

I cried myself to sleep that night. jk, but not really. I was sorely disappointed.

[Bollwerk]

Yes, that would be great, for a 64bit application, but WoW runs in a 32bit environment withing Vist64, which still can only utilize 4gb total.

To test this at home (you Vista64, 8gb ram users) go disable your pagefile.sys, open your hardware monitor, then try to multibox. As things start to load, your total ram usage will increase, then bluescreen due to lack of memory, long long before 8gb are ever used.
I wonder if you could have Vista use a USB flash drive for the pagefile.sys

[Noxxy]

G'day Kny,

Having a quick sticky beak at your specs - you have a great OC'r there but one thing I notice which you don't have and it basically set off a few alarms.

Your paying a huge wad of cash...yet I don't see any cpu cooler (PS - you may have mentioned it in the following posts - did 'speed' read them but nothing stood out)

Respectfully, I would be looking at something like a Thermaltake Bigtyp 120 http://www.thermaltake.com/product/Cooler/Retail/CL-P0114-01/cl-p0114-01.asp - this beasty only costs $69AUD [ http://www.staticice.com.au/cgi-bin/search.cgi?q=Big+Ty%20state:vic ] - think of it as really cheap insurance - yep, I suppose it doesn't get too hot in Camberra [except at election time] but still...your beasty will be pumping out alot of heat and that's just from your HDs... BUT...there's always a BUT...first check how much available clearance / space your have - be really annoying to buy the cooler and have it not fit given the size of your VCards and all the HDs plus extra cabling you'll have in there...good chance it will be tight - all the more reason to get some serious air flow happening

On your other point - re the PSU - I ALWAYS go to this site when I am creating a new overclockers or even just bargain basement stuff - http://extreme.outervision.com/psucalculatorlite.jsp - Just whack in your bits and see whether your PSU of choice can handle it - even if the calculator doesn't have the space to hold all your parts, it should give you a general idea of how many watts your puppy will be using (hmmm...5 HDs + 2 GCards...did the lights just dim?)

Hope you can use some of the linkies

PS: I found something similar on my homepage site - http://www.overclockers.com.au/wiki/Dream_Machine - you should be able to access the wiki without having to be a member. Your box is very similar to the $2500AUD mock-up shown - throw in an exta GC @ $706AUD, 3 extra ram @ $537AUD, less $99AUD for the HD then add in 5 x WD HDD @ $245AUD = $1225AUD comes to about $4869AUD...ahhh, haha can see what you based it on already ;) The extra $69AUD being the cooler ;)

Gratz!

EDIT: sp and another thought - be a shame to have the system fry, so an emergency UPS mightn't go astray either - say $100AUD?

[Knytestorme]

heheehe thanks for the advice, but nope didn't base it off anything but my 2 current boxes...a Q6600 with 4Gb running @ 3.2Ghz on stock cooler and an AMD x2 running SLI 7800GTX. Decided next build will be a combination to maximize multiboxing and working experience :)

You're right that I didn't add a cooler there (then again, didn't list any extra case fans, etc either :D), since my current 6600 is stable on stock cooling at a decent OC and that was more an experiment I never switched back than anything else...don't really see the need to OC much any more with the power things are pushing out now. Having thought about it more though, and looking over pccasegear.com.au I figure I may as well add a Thermaltake 120 Ultra to it and go from there. Canberra does hit decent temps in summer though, so it is something I need to watch out for and as you say, $70 added now vs $350 added later for new cpu makes a lot of sense.

[EDIT]

You're edit makes more sense than you realize....My folks were visiting last weekend so I took the time to move my home office around..powered everything down, moved, powered up, SLI pc CPU = fried :(

[Noxxy]

Hey Kny,

Had a quick look at pcgear's spiel for the Thermalright Ultra 120 Extreme (diff to Thermaltake) - and in the fine print - Recommended Fan: 120mm - http://www.pccasegear.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=207_23_311&products_id=4358&zenid=b034ac4ff7acad91f2f75bbdc74ed79a

So I think what you'll be looking for is the $89AUD one which comes with the 120mm scythe (but have to check which scythe you are getting as there are 3 on the site)

Also did a quick google for reviews - looks a pretty honky unit, getting a lot of praise - definately 'Thunderbirds are go' - only had the two cons:
1)
We already mentioned this one - 'Coolers such as the ThermalRight Ultra 120 and Ultra 120 eXtreme don't come with a pre-packaged fan.'
http://www.overclockercafe.com/Reviews/cooling/ThermalRight_Ultra120_Extreme/pg3.html

The fan the reviewers used was also Scythe - Scythe S-Flex 33.5 CFM 120mm Quiet Fan - which is about $25AUD on your pccase site - http://www.pccasegear.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=9_510&products_id=3489&zenid=b034ac4ff7acad91f2f75bbdc74ed79a

Does make your cpu cooler a bit pricey at $89 assuming you get the scythe you want - but - cheap insurance ('bout 2% of the price!)

2)
'Motherboard removal necessary for installation' - good to remember if your putting it together yourself - save a bit of cursing

Besides the additional cost of the fan and making sure you put all the bits on before Mobo install - it certainly does look like a 'Mother of all Coolers' type of thingy

Has a listing of compatible mobos too - http://www.thermalright.com/new_a_page/product_page/cpu/mcl/ultra-120-mcl.htm

Stacks of great reviews - I WANT ONE TOO! ;p

Re the fried bits - /ouch - has happened to all of us - UPS4DAWINZA!

[Knytestorme]

Yeah, had a read a read over all the anandtech reviews on cpu coolers and it seemed to be the best...though am also tempted by just going balls out and putting a Ninja B on it with 4 120mm fans in push-pull configuration with one set directing air from bottom to top (for the top case fan extraction) and the other two pulling from front to rear (for rear fan extraction).

That's actually how I'll likely go since I'm a little concerned the heatpipe on the 120 won't be heading directly to the side fan and if I'm going to do it then I may as well do it right.

Alternatively I'm considering Thermaltake Armor LCS Case with Liquid Cooling rather than the Antec 1200 and just having water cooling. Only dampener on that plan atm is there is no cooling block for the GX2's that I can find yet.

[Kopitar]

I've just put together a similar system (only 1 gx2 and 2 500gb drives) , have not tried anything with it yet as i just assembled and loaded OS on it, but it should handle AoC much better than my old system.

[Manylines]

" * Will the 2 GX2's run 4 monitors without a drop in fps when not in SLI?"

I just bought the GeForce 9800 GX2, and it works great if you put all your wow's on one screen. But when you enable the second display and move one wow to the new dispay, it is utter crap. Fps drops insanely on all the wow instances. This is in Vista btw, and there is no Horizontal span avialable in Vista. (should not be needed either). I ended up going back to my radeon 1900, works a lot better.. Sadly.

[Knytestorme]

Well I did the build this weekend, the only difference was I decided to wait on the GX2's after reading an article on tomshardware.com about whether cpu or graphics card upgardes give better bang for the buck...seems that at 22" res the difference between a 9800GTX SLI and GX2 Quad SLI is non-existant so decided to see how the 7800GTX's I had went first.

Came to 2 conclussions:

1. Putting one monitor on one card and the other on the other with the cards not in SLI gave horrendous framerates...single digit fps on all accounts.
2. Putting two monitors on one card with SLI disabled gave acceptable framerate but lower than I was getting on a single 7800 with 4Gb of ram under XP32 (eg all screens getting ~15fps under Vista64, main getting ~30 and background at around 15 under XP32)

I'm not sure if taking the SLI bridge off the 2 cards will make a difference, but at this stage I'm still undecided which way to go for graphics card upgrade. Going with 2 GX2's will provide no real benefit to other games over 2 9800GTX's when in SLI, but I have a feeling a GX2 will provide better framerates than a GTX while multiboxing on a single card.