WoW General forums getting a bit out of hand

[Ellay]

There's a lot of publicity and threads going on in the various WoW forums about Multiboxing as a whole, most of it has a negative thread starter followed by a lot of positive feedback for us, then it just meshes into very long arguments that force the thread to stay on the front page and last 10+ pages.

The end result is a bad lime light in the overall viewing of Multiboxers as a whole. My suggestion would be to let these thread dies and drop off. If anything educate them on what we stand for and what we do - but after that point let it go.

[zanthor]

Agreed.

Without a doubt getting into any flame wars with people will simply degrade the overall view of multiboxers as a whole...

[Boylston]

There's a lot of publicity and threads going on in the various WoW forums about Multiboxing as a whole, most of it has a negative thread starter followed by a lot of positive feedback for us, then it just meshes into very long arguments that force the thread to stay on the front page and last 10+ pages.

The end result is a bad lime light in the overall viewing of Multiboxers as a whole. My suggestion would be to let these thread dies and drop off. If anything educate them on what we stand for and what we do - but after that point let it go.Here's another way to look at it.

Multiboxing IS legitimate. It doesn't NEED defending in the WoW forums. The more we fan those flames, the longer the threads get, the more chance we attract undue attention.

Anyone at Blizzard with the control to change the multiboxing policy already knows what we're doing, and they are the only people whose opinions you should care about.

[zanthor]

Do what Ellay said and start some threats on arena team selling and how unfair it is for S3 geared players to be allowed to create 1500 rated new teams and steam roll new players. Get some epic QQ going on - it'll pull the attention away from the other threads.I didn't think they could do this, I thought if the personal rating of a player was > the team rating it would matchmake off the personal rating?

[Crucial]

I've always felt the more publicity multiboxing gets the worse off we all will be. For every multiboxer there will be 10 more haters, and eventually there will enough of them to persaude blizzard to change their stance on the matter in order to calm the masses. Pure speculation and opinion but it just seems lately there are a lot more multiboxers and a hell of lot more complainers, if that grows to a significant number then blizzard will be forced to do something about it that the minority will not like (us).

[Vyndree]

The end result is a bad lime light in the overall viewing of Multiboxers as a whole. My suggestion would be to let these thread dies and drop off. If anything educate them on what we stand for and what we do - but after that point let it go.

Correct. Unless you're willing to read EVERY post to make sure you're not re-posting identical content, just let them die.

I typically only step into threads where the Belfaire post has not been posted and/or the OP is still posting crazy incoherent mumbo-jumbo that needs correcting. At this point, though, people are pretty good at linking the numerous posts in the customer service forums which means we can sit back, relax, and laugh at the people who are watching their arguments fall out from underneath their feet :)

Some people are very clever at necro'ing old multiboxing threads, too. Take a look at the timestamp before you fall for it. ;)

[Catamer]

cruical has a point, enough people complained about the state of the arena to where they had to do something about the "win trading". I started mboxing because I hated getting a team together for anything. I used to play CoH and you could search for all tanks of a level 40-45 or healers of level 40-45. It really ways so much easier to create a team. if Wow wasn't so hard to make a team and all of us who have been on a PuG team where someone who can't wear plate rolls need the wins the blue plate drop know what i'm talking about. What I usually tell others is that the best part about mboxing is that I always have a team, they are always ready, they can quit without leaving everyone else in bind and they never steal the drops from each other. I also mention that they all look the same and are all geared the same is because they did all the same quests at the same time. I've been afraid to PvP but I guess I need to just jump into it.

[Korruptor]

I think this advice is really good in general regarding the WoW forums; I stopped posting there within a few months of release.

IMO it's really quite futile trying to reason with a pool of mindless piranha.

[Ðeceased]

hmm.. I guess you are right.. I think bar my last post 5 mins ago I will stop posting on WoW forums on the topic. I've noticed my blood begins to boil as soon as i start to type a response which, despite my self-critical and passive nature, causes me to be rather offhand and extremely sarcastic :S

Getting a little scared of myself :S and I've noticed my clones aren't as eager to follow me as they used to be ;(

<--- one shammy who wont be posting on WoW forums any more

[Shaitan256]

Hey guys here in Germany It's the same with the flamers, so if I understand, should we "ignor" these threads?

[Ðeceased]

Hey guys here in Germany It's the same with the flamers, so if I understand, should we "ignor" these threads?

yes, I think that is what was meant. I will still post if someone has a legitimate question as to it's legality (not someone just trying to say it's wroung!) or wishes to know details about how it's done.. but I'm stearing well clear of the flame/QQ posts - due to what I said in the post above :)

[Eteocles]

Only step in if the OP is grossly misinformed, and the majority of posts are agreeing with said mis-information. If a bunch of unrelated people speak up in defense of multi-boxing just leave it at that and lol at the responses from the ignorant tards privately ;)

[Ughmahedhurtz]

Let me address some of the premises of the previous posters:

1) The end result is bad publicity. I disagree. People have been doing this in other games for years and even when well known, it never became more than a gimmick. Also, if you read the threads, most people are NOT against it and consider it a fun and interesting variation on what is an aging game.

2) For every multiboxer there will be 10 more haters, and eventually there will enough of them to persaude blizzard to change their stance on the matter in order to calm the masses. I call BS on this. If this were true, they'd have taken Deathcoil, scattershot, snake traps, hamstring, intercept, ice block and mind control out of the game already. Just look at Frost Shock for an example.

3) Security through obscurity; aka "Shhh!" aka just let the threads die. I'm against modifying my behavior because a vocal minority don't like what I do. WoW isn't my life. I can find other things to do with my spare time if something ever did happen that nerfed multiboxing. I'll be damned if I let a bunch of whiny, pre-pubescent, partially-literate, unimaginative e-Thugs harass me into silence. Most of the threads I don't comment on because others have posted rebuttals I agree with already but I'm not gonna just stop posting in fear of a what-if scenario. /shrug

[Eteocles]

Have my Space Turkey babies, Don.

[Silly Gooooose]

I would certainly hope no one from this community is getting into flame wars...

Let the children QQ all they like, blizzard will take care of it.


Part of the problem is the kids who start and continue the flame wars are just forum trolls, and they will flame in any post, regardless of the original post....

[Tonuss]

I've always felt the more publicity multiboxing gets the worse off we all will be. For every multiboxer there will be 10 more haters, and eventually there will enough of them to persaude blizzard to change their stance on the matter in order to calm the masses. Pure speculation and opinion but it just seems lately there are a lot more multiboxers and a hell of lot more complainers, if that grows to a significant number then blizzard will be forced to do something about it that the minority will not like (us).This doesn't seem likely. The more that they rant and complain, the more direct Blizzard's reps are in their responses. Lately they seem to be getting more exasperated with the people criticizing multiboxing. After all, it isn't multiboxers that start thread after thread after thread. They don't seem to be ready to give in to the people who are pissing and moaning. Besides, those people are not going to quit over this, they're mostly just venting. My favorite reply to many of them is to point out that if they really think that Blizzard is acting in a manner that is both immoral and unethical, and hurting their loyal players, why are they supporting it with their dollars? I have yet to get a reply to this, much less even an attempt at a serious one. When you tell them to walk the walk, they suddenly have something else to do.

The latest attempt at complaining about it in the customer service forum led to a CM directly stating that they have data that proves that it does not give multiboxers an unfair advantage in BGs. This was not him stating an opinion, this was him stating it as a fact. So we now have an official Blizzard response saying that not only is it not cheating, or exploiting, or a ToS violation... it's not even unfair! Nice job, whiners!!! Blizzard just shot down one of your last arguments left!

IMO, Blizzard has no intention of doing anything to multiboxing. They seem to say things like "well we never say never, but we have no plans..." which sounds a lot like "on the record, we can't say we won't ever forbid it. Off the record-- FUCK THE WHINERS, where's my keyclone!!!"

[kllrwlf]

Our rep (Vyndree) :love: should be the only one to post the big ol' post and then we should leave it at.

It always ends up being a flaming war and not worth feeding into it.

[Mokoi]

Solution 2:

Do not engage in the adolescent conversations occurring on the WoW Gen Forums.

I stopped reading them about 3 years ago when the game got bigger and other useful forums for WoW began springing up.

We have this forum to chat about multi boxing in a sterile environment free from adolescent tears.

We have the EJ forums to discuss critically and intelligently class and game mechanics, and there are plenty of other places to engage the community in.

WoW Gen Forums are a horrible outlet for relevant and useful information, and has degraded into a cesspool of uselessness.

Don't engage them in any way. They will end up arguing with themselves and get bored when we know we don't have to defend ourselves.

-Dan

[Silly Gooooose]

It's one thing to defend the cause, or to let people know whats up, but to just simply flame and troll the forums is another thing.... There is no need to get into E-Peen contests.

[Eteocles]

"I see your Schwartz is as a big mine" "I see your QQ is as big as my whine" "Want some [Alterac Swiss] with that whine?" ... my mind wanders easily, as the above was my thought process after reading the last post ending with E-Peen contests. lol

I've also gotten no response whatsoever when I ask why people support Blizzard if they're such a big greedy money-hungry company by giving them their money as well. They can't answer it nor think up witty replies so they ignore it. Let the tards stew, while we pew pew ;p

[Havelcek]

Unfortunately people have learned by experience that if enough folks cry about something on the forums for long enough, many times Blizzard reacts. Who knows why or what their tipping point is.

[Achor84]

I think we should only post two links:
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=5288579356&sid=1&pageNo=1 - For the Englishspeaking forum
and
http://forums.wow-europe.com/thread.html?topicId=2406107949&postId=27455784611&sid=3#8 - and for the german forum

or both.

Nothing more.
All Issues are said in the Posts.....

[Kicksome]

Considering "normal" players probably outnumber multi-boxers by about 50,000 to 1 I suggest you don't respond to the threads. I doubt you're going to change anyone's mind or do multi-boxers any good. The more people who bitch about multi-boxing, the worse it is for us. "I just saw a 20 page thread about multi-boxing" isn't a good thing for us. It's very easy for Blizzard to change their policy on mutli-boxing if enough people complain.

[Diamndzngunz]

Let them keep complaining.

It boils down to them not being able to do it their self and then getting their asses handed to them.So they want to complain. Let Um'

[zanthor]

Blizzard watches us... closely.

As soon as we can do something a 5 player team can't, then we'll be nerfed or banned. Since thats not likely to ever happen... even the magic combo of 4 shamans and a pally are likely to remain unstoppable in PVP... because 4 REAL played shamans and a real pally are that much MORE unstoppable.

[Eteocles]

I'd sooner break someone's arm if they so much as reached for my comp Fur let alone let them try multiboxing on it... :P Noone touches my baby. Noone.

As for Blizzcon...I don't have the (vacation) time nor money for a trip like that(plus I Hate travelling with a capital H), but if you guys do end up getting a booth, make a live webcam feed or podcast for the rest of us ;p WoWRadio will probably be going too as they did the last couple cons, could go over and argue with Octale in person, both of you in good spirits I'd hope ;)

[Evilseed]

Is it possible to get a booth at Blizzcon? Seriously speaking here. I'd haul my rig to Irvine to participate.

After some players get some "hands on" time acutally trying to multibox, I'd bet they change thier tune.I could line something up. I did it at last Blizzcon.

Edit: Jeff, this is another perk I can bring to the table :)

[Eteocles]

I'd actually encourage anyone able to, to petition Blizz to reserve you a GM-assisted booth(Belfaire if possible) to help dismiss any rumors/myths and give people said hands on experience...Blizzard could see it as a good chance for PR as well as helpful to make an official statement on it via their ambassadors assisting the present Multi-boxers.

[Vyndree]

... help dismiss any rumors/myths and give people said hands on experience...

Vyndree + skirt perhaps? ;)

[Eteocles]

I said dispel rumors/myths not arouse and confuse ;p Though the idea of "Well shit if a real life Girl said it's okay it must be! She has boobs therefore I must do what she says" is funny lol

And when I said hands on experience I meant with multi-boxing, not you ;P Dunno if Suv would appreciate that LOL

[kllrwlf]

... help dismiss any rumors/myths and give people said hands on experience...

Vyndree + skirt perhaps? ;)

Hmm... guess I'm going to Blizzcon now. :rolleyes:


Actually, my rig would be perfect. Ghetto boxing FTW. Its also a good example to debunk the "multiboxers have too much money" myth.

Cheap PS/2 keyboard.. cheap USB mice... so what if it gets broken. I'll be out $10. lawl

I actually like that myth that multiboxers have too much money. :thumbsup:

[Vyndree]

Though the idea of "Well shit if a real life Girl said it's okay it must be! She has boobs therefore I must do what she says" is funny lol

That was the intention ;)

[Havelcek]

... help dismiss any rumors/myths and give people said hands on experience...

Vyndree + skirt perhaps? ;) Official MSFT endorsement of multiboxing?? 8)

[Tehtsuo]

I think having our very own Forum Rep is the best choice. My procedure when I see complaint posts on the forums:

1) Read through the topic from first post to last, have a good laugh
2) If Vyndree has posted, go to 4.
3) Make post in Dual-Boxing.com forums pointing to Blizzard forum complaint post
4) Ignore topic

Nothing I have to say would help/hinder Multiboxing or the views of the people on the Blizzard forums, nobody goes on those things to have their point of view changed. Anything I could type up would be ignored by everyone and could probably be explained more coherently and in-depth by a post from Vyndree.

In other news, a skirt you say?

[Sun]

Let me address some of the premises of the previous posters:

1) The end result is bad publicity. I disagree. People have been doing this in other games for years and even when well known, it never became more than a gimmick. Also, if you read the threads, most people are NOT against it and consider it a fun and interesting variation on what is an aging game.

2) For every multiboxer there will be 10 more haters, and eventually there will enough of them to persaude blizzard to change their stance on the matter in order to calm the masses. I call BS on this. If this were true, they'd have taken Deathcoil, scattershot, snake traps, hamstring, intercept, ice block and mind control out of the game already. Just look at Frost Shock for an example.

3) Security through obscurity; aka "Shhh!" aka just let the threads die. I'm against modifying my behavior because a vocal minority don't like what I do. WoW isn't my life. I can find other things to do with my spare time if something ever did happen that nerfed multiboxing. I'll be damned if I let a bunch of whiny, pre-pubescent, partially-literate, unimaginative e-Thugs harass me into silence. Most of the threads I don't comment on because others have posted rebuttals I agree with already but I'm not gonna just stop posting in fear of a what-if scenario. /shrugMake a name for yourself on the battleground first. Then....make your post on the WOW forums. I never ever QQ about what may have happened to me in-game. People know who we are on Magtheridon. When I make a general chat comment about "the alliance", I usually get a response, like..."ooo no, The Zerg is getting involved..." Not just Xcola is going to do something BUT...The Zerg is going to do something. So we do make an impact on how others view us. Hopefully, we will keep it a positive one.

[Gallo]

I agree with most people in that we should leave those posts be. I think that the flame wars will only get worse.

I'm currently in Irvine CA for business until the end of the week... should I go find Blizzard and do a Multiboxing QQ protest outside? heh

[opt]

heres my normal response:

listen to this guy what an idiot has he got any clue,
then go into a normal response.
then please save us the trouble and never post your terrible point of view ever again.

[Tonuss]

Considering "normal" players probably outnumber multi-boxers by about 50,000 to 1 I suggest you don't respond to the threads. I doubt you're going to change anyone's mind or do multi-boxers any good. The more people who bitch about multi-boxing, the worse it is for us. "I just saw a 20 page thread about multi-boxing" isn't a good thing for us. It's very easy for Blizzard to change their policy on mutli-boxing if enough people complain.Keep in mind that relatively few multiboxers take part in any of those topics, and the most insulting and strident posts are almost always from people arguing against multiboxing. They are the ones who use direct personal attacks ("you cheating scumbags" etc) and take shots at Blizzard ("they support it because they're a greedy company" etc). Many people posting in support of multiboxing do not do it themselves, they just disagree with the anti-MB crowd, or they are just tired of seeing the threads.

My belief is this-- Blizzard will never ban multiboxing, period. Some of their own people do it, they come from games where they did it, they really do not see anything wrong with it and have no desire to stop it. They will not use words like "never" because they know that things can change and it's always in their best interests not to make absolute statements on things like that. But the reality is that they will not ban it, because there simply is no reason to at all, aside from catering to a group of customers who are angry and whiny and insulting. Why on earth would you want to cater to a bunch of angry little pissants who will NEVER be happy? Let them wear themselves out.

Whenever I respond in those topics, I remain calm and make my point and avoid the worst of the trolling remarks, including the insults. I ignore anyone who starts with "I don't care what Blizzard says" because they're not there to discuss anything, they just want to rant, and that is fine with me. Angry rants from people who write like idiots won't hurt multiboxing in the least. But by picking apart the more common arguments, people who are on the fence can see the issue for themselves, and they can also see that the anti-MB crowd are generally very nasty and rude. That works in our favor. Letting the arguments go unchallenged could make people believe that the arguments are legit, and increase support against multiboxing.

[OzPhoenix]

I've made my final post on those wretched forums. I am now a lurker only. The sheer volume of stupidity over there can make one despair for the future prospects of the human race at times.

[Gadzooks]

I'll admit, I troll the whiners as hard as they troll everyone else, it's fun - I realized the forums are pointless a long time ago, so it's all cheap entertainment at this point. I don't like being called a cheater though, which generally puts someone in my sights.

But, after reading this thread yesterday, and thinking about it, I'm going to retire from the MN threads, and let Vyndree be the voice of MBing - her and Belfaire are doing just fine shutting down the kiddies. I'll reserve my trolling to the uptight, butthurt raiders who insist on ruining any fun to be had - the ones who use the word "deserve" are my faves. :) I love getting them frothing at all orifices. What can I say, it's cheap fun.

A few things I've learned about MBing and those who attack it - you can stop reading here, if you want the TLDR version, this is just a little brain dump:

A. they are kids who can't do it because Mommy and Daddy won't buy them more equipment and accounts, or are slackers/losers who's minimum wage McJobs won't support it. They're just jealous and venting nerd rage after having their asses handed to them, or they have a realization after a sugar rush that MBers *get ALL the loot* *gasp* and THAT'S NOT FAIR! They generally burn out after a post or two.

B. The majority of MB haters are PvP/ArenaBois. Raiders don't seem to care one way or another about MBing, and I remember ONE person who was concerned about losing raid slots to a MBer. Now, I spent a LOT of time in my battlegroup getting my full S1 set by fighting every match, and it took a while, so I got very intimate with the PvP scene on my server and battlegroup. We all know what it's like - you either have bullies whining and insulting everyone in chat, or it's nothing but "Let them win, I need my honor/marks", or it's complete silence. There is very, very little teamwork in BGs - and god help you if you slow down the honor/mark grinders even one second. There is no "fun" in PvP, it's a solid, grim, determined grind, and they don't want to hear about trying anything that isn't the stale, worn out strats. This is for Alliance on my BG, and it's why the Horde rolls them ruthlessly.


Throw in a MB team, and you get the forum whiners, and you get why they NEVER address the fact that a little teamwork will utterly destroy an MB team. "Wut? Talk to other players?" Not going to happen, and they know it, but they will never admit it. Take a couple minutes from the race down the map in AV to engage an MB team? Expect other players to stop their sheep run down the map to help another player being one-shotted by a shaman 5-man? Not going to happen. USE the 5-man team to their advantage as raid leader to get a win? That's crazy talk, man, all I know is "everyone run down to Drek".

The complaining and bitterness over MBing is entirely of their own making, their laziness and greed for marks and honor stands in the way of fun and challenge, and the appearance of a MB team just means 5 minutes time "wasted" actually fighting, and god forbid, having fun.

Address them on this angle, and you will shut them down. Address their lack of ability to gather their forces in a BG to take out a team, because *nobody talks to each other*. Address that a 5-man team taking a base in EotS is exactly the same as 5 players capping a base - 5 players taking ANYTHING in there is a major hurdle to defeat. I've seen the Mage Tower completely locked down by *two* players, with the Alliance team I was on incapable of taking it back, because of the same stupid inability to play *together* and *think*.

These guys are'nt going anywhere, and there's plenty of fuel for that fire from them. These are the ones that take the most work to shut down, because you are attacking their ability to feed their ePeen and ego, and honor/mark lust. They NEED those marks, and that honor, because they actually tie their self-esteem to it, and if they don't have the most or best of the best...well, they just can't have THAT.

They also think they are uber, and hate being taken out. Thus, to them, 5 vs 1 is "cheating", because they're so uber, they should be able to take out a 5 man shaman team, if it's controlled by one person, right? The MB community and the Blues won't be able to do anything to put an end to these players, they make up the majority of any server, both factions. My solution is put these guys on your KOS list, if they're on your server. :)

C. The rest of them are drama queens and chicken littles, who love to claim that MBers are going to be so common that they take over the game. They are idiots, the same ones who post the endless "<new game> is gonna kill wow!" threads. They're just filling the space up with babbling, because they have nothing else to contribute, they love doom and gloom and drama to much to not try and create some. They're the ones who throw in the exaggerated claims and made up effects on the game, or throw around the "they just do it to sell accounts" bs. They eventually find a new thread to be drama queens in, but they draw a lot of comments, because who likes to be accused of the nonsense they say? THAT is the trigger I and all the rest of the MBers need to watch for, and ignore. They know they'll get a rise out of MBers if they claim we're making money from doing it, or using exploits and cheats. (That's always kinda cracked me up, I've seen more Rocket Boot cheats and terrain exploits in BGs than I can type here, yet I've never seen a MBer claim to use anything illegal.)

D. Then there's the crusaders. The ones that think they will find the one angle or word in the EULA that will change everything, and parades will be thrown in their honor, and Blizzard will inscribe their name in the wall of Stormwind. LOL. A recent EPIC crusader is the jerk on the CS forums who's on a crusade to have the afk reporting policy "reviewed" by himself and the legal team and Blizzard, so he won't be forced to sue. Yes, he's THAT pompous, and he's had two threads now to play "look at me". The CMs are being blunt with him, but he's on a roll, he's another "I don't care what the Blues say, *I'm* right", and I have no DOUBT he'll find a way to waste Bliz's legal team's time. A lot of the MB threads are started by this type, and they won't listen to reason or Blizzard, they will crusade the issue forever. They're fun to play with, but it's not going to accomplish anything - them I am swearing off playing with, and I think most of this thread concerns. They're the ones you let Belfaire and the others take care of.

Oh well. Just my thoughts. Worth as much as you paid for them. :)

[Eteocles]

The ones that amuse me most are the fucktards who say "NUH-UH ITS 1v1 NOT 5v1 CUZ UR ONLY 1 PLAYER SO I SHOULD STILL WIN, DOESNT MATTER HOW MANY CHARS U GOT UR STILL ONE DOOD"(Coincidentally, the whiner's IQ is the same number of players behind your 5 chars, at best; there's Jars of Mayonaisse with higher IQs)

I had one of the above in DC while I was in it...we got into one night in guild chat and hesheit continuously stated "I DONT CARE UR STILL 1 PERSON BEHIND THE CHARS ITS NOT FAIR"; YOU DONT FUCKIN RUSH 5 CHARACTERS AND EXPECT TO LIVE. Regardless of how many players are behind the chars, be it 1, 2, 5, 8, or fucking TWENTY people playing 5 chars, it's still, SURPRISE, FIVE FUCKING CHARACTERS. Never did through their thick skull and they make smart remarks whenever they can and I just lol at 'em

[Havelcek]

I've made my final post on those wretched forums. I am now a lurker only. The sheer volume of stupidity over there can make one despair for the future prospects of the human race at times.Between this forum and elitistjerks there is absolutely no reason to need to go to the official WoW forums unless you need tech support. Thankfully there are plenty of moderated forums out there to discuss the game.

[Eteocles]

I read 'em partly because I love to argue(I'm sure you guys're aware of that ;p) and partly because it's like a train wreck...you know you need to keep going but you just can't help but stop and look. It holds your attention, it's Darwinism at work, it makes you feel smarter in comparison(Though possibly dumber for actually reading it), etc :p Just use moderation and control if ya can