switching from software to hardware, considering switching from pc to mac.... advise please

[TEEJ]

yeah so i run 5 druids... feral on laptop with 4 balance/resto hybrids split up on a big widescreen i bought for my alienware pc. keyclone works great. macros are easy to plan. thinking of 5boxing city of villians just cause it's more of an instant fun than wow's huge time investment fun.

i am about to start the process to switch to be a hardware boxing, and was thinking of getting 4 imacs with the vertical 2 monitor stand things that suv/vynd use. perhaps even get 5 imacs and burn/sell my pc and laptop... or just use them to browse the net and such. the reason i want to switch to mac is i hate windows. all the background programs that slow me down that i can't stop...... i dont wana reformat every few months. i'm good at using but i suck at fixing. i also hate having to reboot every time something crashes that i wasn't even using.

the imacs are 2.66 ghz dual core, 2 gigs ram, 256 meg vid card... with everything possible built in. i already got a kvm that i'll hook up 1 master keyboard to all the imacs, while still having the small individual keyboards set up on the desk space with trackballs for each comp. 1400$ per imac. i just read suvega's post about being able to make a pc for 600 including the monitor with stuff from newegg... but i'm not technically inclined enough to build/install. 6k-8k for 4-5 imacs with kvm, stands, and trackballs and such seems like a price i'm willing to pay for convenience and sanity. but does anyone advise against mac? i have buddies that use macs booted up in windows, and it just seems like macs run pc stuff better than pcs do.

i'm in the navy for 9 more months... with zero debt, money in the bank, and a house about to sell. so i have the cash, but i can't decide if i should just save it or kill time till i can leave washington... what do you think?

[Eteocles]

Macs suck. Nuff said. ESPECIALLY the imacs, if I recall right they're mac-only, no PC parts/windows installability.

[TEEJ]

you can install windows on macs. when you press the boot up button, there are 2 options, boot up in the mac OS, or windows. actually recently the fastest notebook windows vista speed was clocked by the macbook pro... stock, no special upgrades...

i definitely wouldn't be in the market to upgrade whether i go pc or mac. i believe in getting something more than good enough, and living with it for a few years. i don't see myself moving to a more demanding game graphically, multiboxingwise anyway. whether i get a pc or mac it'd be 2.something Ghz dual core, 2 gigs of ram, 256 or bigger video card... and everything else stock. but i really suck at building/installing/repairing comps, and i really hate unstable windows when run on a pc.

i used to be anti-mac but my friends let me use theirs and it's pretty badass, although more expensive. but money isn't an issue, i'm the bank. sanity is priceless.

[Gadzooks]

Macs suck. Nuff said. ESPECIALLY the imacs, if I recall right they're mac-only, no PC parts/windows installability.Oh please. Spare us the Wintel Snobbery™. The current line-up of Macs are great machines, and I've heard every argument under the sun since the early 90's why Apple and their products "suck". When Jobs left the company, yes, they sucked. Now? Please.

The new iMacs run Windows in BootCamp (native) or in Parallels (emulation) just fine. All current Macs do, from the Mac Mini to the Towers and MacBook Pros. Best of both worlds, really, you can't complain. I run Vista and XP on my Mini, and it's just fine. I prefer the Mac OS, as I use it more professionally (I get paid to use Photoshop), but both platforms have their strengths, weaknesses, and it all boils down to what you can *do* with a computer. Anyone can buy a computer, show me what you can *do*, not sit there and act like a 11 year old fighting about which Power Ranger is better. That doesn't impress me.

As for parts, Macs have used PC parts for years, the only things right now that are Mac specific are the motherboards, video cards (and that's a lot better than it used to be), and cases.

As for the OP, I would buy one dual quad core Xeon Intel Mac tower, and put two decent video cards in - the iMac has a slower system bus, and you can't put as much ram in - and you'll need a LOT - same as if you ran Windows. The iMac is simply not designed to do the kind of thing you are going to be doing, I would worry about heat a LOT with an iMac - the towers are well ventilated (ever look inside a Mac tower? It's gorgeous). Also, with the tower, you have much better choices for video cards (PCI-X). A dual quad core Mac is going to be one hell of a machine for a while, they are insanely fast. One piece of advice -do not buy ram, harddrives or video cards from Apple - buy the base machine and upgrade it yourself much cheaper through NewEgg or CDW. The iMacs are nice, but they're really not built for that kind of heavy lifting you're planning on doing. If you buy 2 iMacs, you pretty much are spending the same amount.

If you get separate cpus add in the cost of the KVM/multi-caster, because there is no software solution I can find to broadcast keyboard commands over TC/IP or Ethernet. I am going to try a D-Link DBT-120 Bluetooth dongle later this week or next to see if I can pair one keyboard to all of my Macs (Dual G5 Tower, 17" Powerbook, Intel Mini) for 3-boxing or more, which might be a cost-effective solution until I can afford a multi-caster. There are a couple of cool free apps for screen and mouse sharing, tho - Synergy works great on my G5 and Mini. If you run 4 copies on a tower, one copy of CloneKeys is all you need, it works great.

I run 3 copies of Wow just fine on a dual G5 with a Radeon 9800 video card and 23" HD Cinema, 4.5 gigs of ram. A new dual XEON quad core? Forget about it. If I had the cash right now, I'd have one.

Plus, it'll run all of your Windows stuff. :)

If I had the room/money, I'd set up a Windows based system with mini ATX boxen for a 5-box setup in a heartbeat, so I could try multi-boxing in other games - not all of us Mac users are snobs.

[TEEJ]

yeah i already bought a kvm. i already 5box fine with 2 pcs, but i want to use 5 pcs.... the 1 pc 4 imac (or 5 imac) idea i had i'd just be running wow/cityofvillians only on the imacs. should run fast. 2 Ghz, 2GB ram, 256MB vid 20''... (1400$ all inclusive)

the mac pro would be superior, but all i need it to do is run 1 instance of the game per imac. and the towers are way more expensive than imacs, since i'm insistent on 5 computers instead of 2. i guess 4-5 mac laptops would work, i'll have to look at the prices/videocards. but for my purposes, imacs seem ideal.

do you really think that an imac running 1 copy of wow or city of villians and nothing else would have heat problems?

i'm thinking now of 1 mac pro and 4 imacs for the alts... good idea? bad idea?

[Groovy]

IMacs are great, but they do have heat issues. I would look into getting Mac Pro's. Also I would wait for apple to adopt Nvidia cards, ATI's drivers are always problematic, great cards, shitty drivers. OSX Leopard if you can, else bootcamp into windows XP. Mac Minis are pretty good to, but like the IMac they have heating issues.

[TEEJ]

yeah the mac pro's are way better but 2799 apiece adds up fast. 1400 apiece times 4 i can see myself spending, but not 2799 apiece times 4 or 5 plus 4-500 for monitors and whatever else doesnt come with it.

6500$ is a hobby.

15000$ is a good downpayment on a new car/house.

if imacs at 1400$ can't handle wow/cityofvillians, i better stick with cheap PCs and hope they don't die on me.

[TEEJ]

oh yeah... all new macs come with osx leopard

[Groovy]

Speaking of CoV what are you going to multibox in there? I'm intreeged.

[TEEJ]

x/rad corruptors have a ton of synergy.

i was thinking rad/rad or fire/rad, but issue 12 coming out makes me want to be elec/rad (new powerset for corruptors). short circuit and other electric attacks can drain all the end from an arch villian/hero or huge monster in <11 seconds with a team of 8 electric drainers. and accelerate metabolism gives insane recharge/end recovery/speed, which stacks. and if i ever wanted to pvp, i could drain end like crazy and stack the elec hold 4 times with 1 keypress.

also i'm a big fan of having some sort of tank even though its not really needed with all the /rad debuffs.

so... i'm thinknig elec/elec brute on my alienware with 4 elec/rad corruptor alts linked together on imacs. deciding power pools is the hard part... other than naming the toons.

i'd control my brute mainly, reach up and press numbers on the keyboard that controls all 4 corruptors via a kvm... with corruptors mainly on autofollow. aoe ball lightningx4, pbaoe short circuitx4, lightningx4 on bosses. debuff aoe in big fights. aoe healingx4.

also boxing on cox you rack a ton of prestige up, which would really help my villian group get their base pimped out. not sure yet what server i'll play on yet, i mainly used to play city of heroes on infinity but corruptors are the bee's knees. probly justice or virtue since i saw a couple cool vg recruitment threads on those servers in the cov forums.

if any of you guys are heavily into city of villians let me know and i'll roll where you are. always fun to rock it with other boxers.

[TEEJ]

i recently had the idea to try ice/rad also (x4 + a brute)

not as good aoe damage, but insane single target damage and the -slow/-speed effect stacks.

the only aoe is ice storm which makes stuff run away, but with 4 of them stacking -speed and the lingering radiation, everything will try to run but stand still dying to ice storm ticks, which recalcs scourge chance every hit.

frost breath doesnt count.... cones are too hard to aim while boxing.

aoe is important, which rad, fire, and elec have... but i could set record speed times for killing huge bosses with ice/rad... and ice storm might be enough aoe to farm with.

either way i'm sure to have a ton of alts that i take to 25-35 just to farm prestige and have some fun.

[Desible]

If it's any help. Just a little something to show what a Mac Pro can handle, you don't need to buy five of them.

My Mac Pro:
2 x 2.66 GHz Dual-Core Intel Xeon
2 GB Memory
With one 7300GT

I can run all 5 applications of WoW on my mac at once. Having the graphic settings set to medium, and multisampling to 16x1 I get ~15fps not in a major city (thats with all 5 windows on the same screen, 32', none hidden). I'm sure if you threw another gig of memory and upgraded the video card to 8800GT you would have no issues of running 5 instances of WoW at once. I intend on getting the 8800GT once some other programs that I use become compatible with Leopard.

[TEEJ]

i fully get that 1 mac pro tweaked out is badass, and i totally agree it would be cool/fun...

but i am adamant about wanting 5 separate computers. city of villians doesnt work with keyclone, so i'll be hardware boxing. plus i just want to have 5 computers. i 5box wow already on 2 computers and it works great, but i both want to switch to 5 computers and try out mac if the imac can handle it.

5 computers = new for me. if i was gona stick with 2 computers, i'd use my current setup... not buy a brand new mac pro to do the same thing i'm already doing. plus i like the idea of 4 small keyboards/trackballs set up so i can have exact control of individual alts without caring about macros. 1 other keyboard kvm'd to all 4 at same time for synchronous attacks, of course.

i've done the multiple accounts on 1 comp a whole bunch, in eq.... daoc.... wow.... you name it. 5 comps is my next step. i'm either getting 4 imacs or 4 new pc's. already have the kvm...

[Gadzooks]

i fully get that 1 mac pro tweaked out is badass, and i totally agree it would be cool/fun...

but i am adamant about wanting 5 separate computers. city of villians doesnt work with keyclone, so i'll be hardware boxing. plus i just want to have 5 computers. i 5box wow already on 2 computers and it works great, but i both want to switch to 5 computers and try out mac if the imac can handle it.

5 computers = new for me. if i was gona stick with 2 computers, i'd use my current setup... not buy a brand new mac pro to do the same thing i'm already doing. plus i like the idea of 4 small keyboards/trackballs set up so i can have exact control of individual alts without caring about macros. 1 other keyboard kvm'd to all 4 at same time for synchronous attacks, of course.

i've done the multiple accounts on 1 comp a whole bunch, in eq.... daoc.... wow.... you name it. 5 comps is my next step. i'm either getting 4 imacs or 4 new pc's. already have the kvm...Okay, gotcha, you want the hardware challenge, that's cool. :)

I would look and see if Clone Keys (Mac version of CloneKeys) works with CoV, tho. It's pretty simple, I would think it would work.

I guess the 4 iMacs would be fine - at least they're all pretty. :) And I think they're VESA compliant, so you can use that kind of gear to mount them on some kind of rack system. There are freeware temp monitors for Intel Macs you could use to keep an eye on temp, and a couple of well placed fans or A/C should help a lot.

Stupid question, but the KVM is USB, right? If it's not...won't work with iMacs.

I'm wondering if you can pair one wireless keyboard to all of the iMacs...they all have Bluetooth standard...not for your set up, I'm just wondering out loud. Makes me wonder if I should just get an iMac for now, get a tower later...nah, I WANT a tower for Photoshop/ZBrush goodness. :)

[Schwarz]

Macs suck. Nuff said. ESPECIALLY the imacs, if I recall right they're mac-only, no PC parts/windows installability.

QQ more Macs are great they are based on a solid operating system and the gui is better than windows. Just because they don't tailor themselves towards gaming doesn't mean that they suck.

[TEEJ]

Stupid question, but the KVM is USB, right? If it's not...won't work with iMacs.

I'm wondering if you can pair one wireless keyboard to all of the iMacs...they all have Bluetooth standard...not for your set up, I'm just wondering out loud. Makes me wonder if I should just get an iMac for now, get a tower later...nah, I WANT a tower for Photoshop/ZBrush goodness. :)
the kvm i bought is uber, here's some of the description pasted. by the way it was 180 bucks with tax.

8-Port USB PS2 Combo KVM Switch with Cable - Retail
Console your Keyboard/Mouse via either way of PS/2 and/or USB arbitrarily.
Complex connections with PCs via either way of PS/2 and/or USB arbitrarily.
Controls 8 computers from a single console (Keyboard/Mouse) over PS/2 and/or USB connections.
Supports Windows, Linux, Mac OS9/OSX, Sun Microsystems.
On-Screen-Display (OSD) & Daisy Chain functions. - OSD is intuitive menus driven for quick and efficient navigation. - 3 level cascades: up to 3 levels; control up to 64/512 PCs, from a single console; cascaded units don’t need special configuration
Emulates a keyboard on each PC to allow your computers to boot normally without a keyboard error.

not sure if this link will work, but http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=101&cp_id=10102&cs_id=1010202&p_id=3407&seq=1&format=2

it's product id 3407 on monoprice.com if you want to search for it cause the link doesnt work. i think its better than the vetra, its cheaper, and you can order it without calling some company in new york that doesnt sell through a website.



i also am curious if 1 wireless imac laptop could control all 4 imacs. would be easier than a kvm but i got a kvm anyway, and i hate when the wireless batteries run out.

[Suvega]

USB KVM will kill your perf in PVP.

you want something that can switch control < 250ms. Look towards prof qual server farm stuff.

[raz]

One app that's great for macs while gaming is SMCFancontrol. It's on versiontracker, but allows you to set a higher minimum fan setting so that you won't have any heat issues. I crank the fans up a bit when I game on my macs and they stay plenty cool. The default settings are nice and quiet but when listening to game sounds I don't care if the fan is a touch louder but keeping everything barely warm to the touch.

[TEEJ]

ok. i dont know how much pvp i'll be doing. with wow my eventual goal was soloing heroics with ease on my 5 druids, 1 feral 4 balance/resto that stack lifebloom then nuke. if i did pvp i'd mostly mess with people in av popping out of cat stealth to 5xstarfire people for fun.... not really counting on dominating waves of alliance.

in city of villians i'll mostly be solo pve also. if i pvp i doubt it'll be a challenge with the autoassistviatarget'starget feature combined with autofollow and fly. there isn't really an arena style setup that is active with rewards. just a few zone pvp places. i may assist nuke heroes while bored, but it isn't my goal to do pvp as much as dominate pve.

hey suvega, do you advise against getting 4 imacs for my 4 alts? 2 Ghz 2 Gigs ram 256 mb vid... more expensive than pc of same hardware level but i suck at building/installing/fixing pc's.

[TEEJ]

One app that's great for macs while gaming is SMCFancontrol. It's on versiontracker, but allows you to set a higher minimum fan setting so that you won't have any heat issues. I crank the fans up a bit when I game on my macs and they stay plenty cool. The default settings are nice and quiet but when listening to game sounds I don't care if the fan is a touch louder but keeping everything barely warm to the touch.

Does SMCFancontrol come with the mac operating system or is it an extra thing? sounds great!

[Gadzooks]

One app that's great for macs while gaming is SMCFancontrol. It's on versiontracker, but allows you to set a higher minimum fan setting so that you won't have any heat issues. I crank the fans up a bit when I game on my macs and they stay plenty cool. The default settings are nice and quiet but when listening to game sounds I don't care if the fan is a touch louder but keeping everything barely warm to the touch.

Does SMCFancontrol come with the mac operating system or is it an extra thing? sounds great!It's freeware, it's very cool.

http://homepage.mac.com/holtmann/eidac/software/page5/page5.html


Is the authors page - he has the source up too, if anyone wants to tinker.

Only for Intel macs, tho, I can only use it on my Mini - but I saw a refurb dual Xeon MacPro tower for $2k...hrm...

[TEEJ]

the new line is all intel based

man, the more i talk to people about it and research it, the more i not only want to buy 4 imacs.... but i want to buy a bunch of stock in apple. even with the economy doing so poor, apple is still going up... and hasn't really ever had a dip. my roth IRA is up to 21k and i have some other money i wanted to invest, and apple is looking to have more growth and less volatility than gold and precious metal funds.

4 regular keyboards and 1 wireless or kvm'd keyboard makes me never have to switch, just reach for the proper keyboard if i want to individually control any alt. i'm thinking 4 trackballs arranged with the keyboards is the way to do mouse movement too.

i came to the realization lately that the purpose of money is to allow you to do the things you like. other than that it's just a number in a computer somewhere... insignificant until you live outside the means that your contribution to society allows. so i might as well go with what my initial gut feeling told me to do and get 4 imacs. unfortunately i'm on an aircraft carrier cutting circles in the ocean for another 6 to 8 weeks... but the day i get back i'm making 6-7000$ dissapear. i'll be sure to take pictures of my setup and let you know how everything works. thanks for the advice guys.

[Undeadish]

Macs suck. Nuff said. ESPECIALLY the imacs.

[Gadzooks]

the new line is all intel based

man, the more i talk to people about it and research it, the more i not only want to buy 4 imacs.... but i want to buy a bunch of stock in apple. even with the economy doing so poor, apple is still going up... and hasn't really ever had a dip. my roth IRA is up to 21k and i have some other money i wanted to invest, and apple is looking to have more growth and less volatility than gold and precious metal funds.

4 regular keyboards and 1 wireless or kvm'd keyboard makes me never have to switch, just reach for the proper keyboard if i want to individually control any alt. i'm thinking 4 trackballs arranged with the keyboards is the way to do mouse movement too.

i came to the realization lately that the purpose of money is to allow you to do the things you like. other than that it's just a number in a computer somewhere... insignificant until you live outside the means that your contribution to society allows. so i might as well go with what my initial gut feeling told me to do and get 4 imacs. unfortunately i'm on an aircraft carrier cutting circles in the ocean for another 6 to 8 weeks... but the day i get back i'm making 6-7000$ dissapear. i'll be sure to take pictures of my setup and let you know how everything works. thanks for the advice guys.Look into Synergy when you get your gear set up - it's a very cool server/client setup that combines your monitors and keyboards in a virtual KVM - you assign a master screen, and then arrange your other displays around it, so if you move your mouse from the main screen to the edge, the mouse will appear on the other display, and the keyboard switches to that computer. It's a Windows app, but the Mac version runs very well - if it broadcasted keyboard input, it would be perfect.

http://www.altuit.com/webs/altuit2/SynergyOSX/default.htm


It's a little wonky to set up, but once up, it's rock solid. You won't need 4 keyboards and trackballs with it. :)

I still want a Tower though - a 24" iMac is about the same as a dual Xeon Mac Pro (refurb from Apple), and that, from a LOT of reports I've read, will run 5 copies of WoW just fine - I'll add another 23" HD Cinema to a dual head video card, and I'm set. :) Another 23" would be great for my Photoshop/Zbrush/illustration duties, as well - and I can write it off.

Now, to raise $3000...I can do it by Xmas, prolly. Maybe just in time for WotLK!

[TEEJ]

Macs suck. Nuff said. ESPECIALLY the imacs.

any specific reason? or just /flame on