What if? Upgrading to 10 accounts

[Bunny]

Hey everybody,

just toying around and wanting to hear your opinions. Say you have a group of 5 shams and want to upgrade to 10 chars for PvE (Kara, ZA and Wotlk). What classes whould you add? The following conditions must be met:

* The together with the shams a decent PvE 10box setup must exist (2 tanks, 2-4 healers, although shams may be respecced for that).

* The new 5 chars must be able to level self sufficient: 1 tank, 1 healer, 3 DDs

* If possible have many useful buffs



I came up with the following idea:

* 2 paladin (1 tank and 1single target healer), 1 druid (leveled as oomkin, later being the second tank , 1 shadowpriest (decent damage, great utility), 1 mage (buff, ports, DD)

* Another possibility is to leave the druid and take a second mage, all tanking later whould need to be done by 2 paladins but this whould lead to more synergy (+ all chars can be draenei :thumbsup: )



What whould be your suggestions?

Bunny

[OzPhoenix]

Ok, well, I run 5 Shammies at the moment. If I ever did move to 10 (and I don't think I ever will), I'd definitely include a water/food/taxi-boy, sometimes referred to as a Mage.

At 10, I would probably bite the bullet and include a Paladin tank and Priest healer as well.

So, I'd be 1 Paladin, 1 Priest, 1 Mage, 7 Shamans I guess.

[shaeman]

Surely you've got to have a lock in there somewhere. For healthstone utility alone and of course Amplified Curse of Doom on Curator.

Probably have to be destro to ease up the number of spells to keep up at one time.

I would have said for wipe protection with soulstones as well , but I figure with a load of shammys with ankhs you would be fine.

Whilst it would be great I can't imagine the micromanagement you would need to handle everything. I think some fights would be incredibly complicated, coordination wise. I'm thinking coordinating 10 players during Aran's arcane explosion and flame wreath.

Moving your casters to avoid infernals during prince, whilst running the offtank away when he's hit with that debuff that takes all the health away prior to the explosion.

Mind you - what a rush it would be to try.

Perhaps to start with you could see how two 5 boxers get on :D

[StormClouds]

IF i had 5 shaman already?

1 pally 1 priest 1 druid and either 2 mages or a mage and a warlock

[Majestic_Clown]

I was actually thinking about it, 9 Shaman and 1 pally :P

pew pew, 9x lesser healing way anyone?

[Eteocles]

I was actually thinking about it, 9 Shaman and 1 pally :P

pew pew, 9x lesser healing way anyone?4 words: Skeletal Usher Ice Tomb. Pala gets tombed, and your entire raid of shamen gets steamrolled instantly :P You need 2 tanks for most of Karazhan even with shacklers and banishers

[Maz]

Paladin/Druid/Priest/Warlock/Mage

[Majestic_Clown]

I was actually thinking about it, 9 Shaman and 1 pally :P

pew pew, 9x lesser healing way anyone?4 words: Skeletal Usher Ice Tomb. Pala gets tombed, and your entire raid of shamen gets steamrolled instantly :P You need 2 tanks for most of Karazhan even with shacklers and banishersyeah well :P
10 shammies of AV doom then :P

Man, you could steam roll everyone in AV

[voodoogriff]

I was actually thinking about the feasibility of 1 manning Karazhan last night, and I determined that controlling the 2nd tank might be a bit much. I think positioning it would be the big problem more than controlling actions.

But I was thinking something along the lines of 2 Prot Paladins (Tanking, Buffs, BoP for Moroes), 1 Resto Shaman (Earth Shield, Chain Heal), 1 Resto Druid (HoTs and Mark), 1 Holy Priest (Prayer of Healing, Circle of Healing, Buffs, HoTs Lite) 1 Lock (Curse of Doom for Curator, Soulstones/Healthstones), 1 Elemental Shaman (ToW) , 1 BM Hunter (FI mmmm) and 2 mages (General DPS, Food Dispensers).

I think I could easily scare up 5 friends to go in with me though so I think once I get rolling I'll try to 6man it lol

[Silly Gooooose]

I would get as many classes as I can in there, the more classes the better, so I would skip the 2 pally thing.

If you want to really get into it, I'd break it down to what a normal raid would want. 1 Direct big heal healer (pally or maybe a shaman / priest) AoE heals for your group, so Priest > Shaman (yes chain heal, but omg circle of healing is win for full group healing...) and then hots for you tank, so a RDruid. I think with a RDruid, 1 Resto shaman, a Circle of healing Priest, you should be good in kara / ZA. Granted I am used to T6 characters, but I never do kara with more than 2 healers, 3 if we are just feeling nice, but other than prince, it's never needed. We'd rather kill fast. ZA 3 is good, a 4th is meh, but if you go with say 3 normal healers, you can gear 1 shaman for resto also, and even as ele, he can put on resto gear and heal well enough, maybe spec him hybrid resto / ele.

I'd say a warlock and mage are mandatory, you get so many nice buffs from, them.


I was actually thinking about the feasibility of 1 manning Karazhan last night, and I determined that controlling the 2nd tank might be a bit much. I think positioning it would be the big problem more than controlling actions.

After reading his thoughts about could you really solo kara, I would have to say it's pretty damn near impossible. Doable mayyyybe, but a nightmare.

I would suggest doing what 25 totems did, and find yourself someone who wants to do the same thing, and having one of you reroll/transfer.

[Tdog]

10x shammies, 10x earth elemental rotation, done...

[Bunny]

Thanks for your thoughts everyone,

first let me get this straight: I am just fooling around with the idea, I am nowhere near actually trying it! Of course there are fights that may be rather easy (Attumen, Kurator, Chess :rolleyes: ) and some fights that are virtually impossible (Nightbane ...). But the announcement that in Wotlk all raids will be 10-mannable made me think...

The basic problem seems to be diversity of characters vs. synergy. What good is an ability of a character if I cannot use it due to me being occupied playing the other 9 toons.

This is the reason I didn't include a lock in my strategy. They can do nice damage but other than that I cannot see much usability to the group. Soulstones are not necessary because of ankhs. Healthstones are nice in theory but in my experience the micromanagement is too much if you try to use healthstones other than on the MT. Am I missing something about the lock? A core ability I am not aware of at the moment?

The second thing whould be the tank situation: I think everybody can agree on a paladin MT. For fights where a second tank is needed one might suggest another paladin. The downside is, that that char whould be "dead meat" in fights where only one tank is necessary. So basically I want a second tank that is somewhat useful in fights with only the maintank in action. I figured a druid could just switch to his caster gear and whould blend in with the mages/shams an be in "fire-and-forget" mode till needed for tanking again. In my opinion the druid is much better for that than a paladin (or even a warrior). Or is the paladin so much easier to tank with (read: requires so much less attention) than the druid to make it worth having a second?

What about a hunter? Does he bring any utility to a group that is based on magical range damage (besides dmg)? For purposes of 10 mans I like to ignore the off tanking pet.

More input please :P

[voodoogriff]

The second thing whould be the tank situation: I think everybody can agree on a paladin MT. For fights where a second tank is needed one might suggest another paladin. The downside is, that that char whould be "dead meat" in fights where only one tank is necessary. So basically I want a second tank that is somewhat useful in fights with only the maintank in action. I figured a druid could just switch to his caster gear and whould blend in with the mages/shams an be in "fire-and-forget" mode till needed for tanking again. In my opinion the druid is much better for that than a paladin (or even a warrior). Or is the paladin so much easier to tank with (read: requires so much less attention) than the druid to make it worth having a second?

What about a hunter? Does he bring any utility to a group that is based on magical range damage (besides dmg)? For purposes of 10 mans I like to ignore the off tanking pet.
For the tank, you could always run the offtank as an off-healer?

And for hunters, Ferocious Inspiration in the BM tree is amazing. Throw that hunter into 4 other dps (of any kind) and +3% damage away!!

[shaeman]

Ah my bias to warlocks has revealed itself (it was my first level 70).

I wouldn't say a lock is a must have for kara. There are certain fights he is great for and would make it easier for a multiboxer.

Terrestrian illhoof - sit him fairly close in to the portals and have him spamming Seed of corruption on illhoof. Especially if he has that pally buff for non interrupt.

Curator of course - an amplified curse of doom timed to go off in the evocate phase.

Aran - the healthstones are great after he sheeps everyone and does that big blast. I guess that would be the best use of healthstones, and the easiest to multibox up (bind the same key and all your chars eat their healthstone at the right time). Banish one, chain fear another on the elementals that pop.

Opera event - The Oz one. Takes roar out of the equation with chain fearing. (of course you don't know which event you are going to get).

In retrospect I think the utility the warlock brings is great, but would take too much micro management in a 10 box raid.

The more I think about it though - the more fights require a lot of movement and differing talents of the various classes all needing to be done at the same time. What a challenge...