I think I just wasted $1000 on upgrades (Vista64, 8GB Ram, Dual 9800gtx)

[Nitro]

I just dumped another $1000 of gear into my main box looking to improve the FPS for my 5 boxing in WoW

Previous Rig:

Q6700
Strike Extreme Mobo
4GB DDR2 RAM
8800 Ultra OC 768
Windows XP Pro
4x 150GB Raptor X

With this setup I played on two 20" NEC LCD2070VX Monitors in desktop span of 3200x1200 (main client 1600x1200, alts 800x600). I use keyclone to multiplex my commands and wow maximizer to setup my windows.

New Setup:

I added another Raptor Drive and installed Windows Vista Ultimate 64 bit
It automatically found all the drivers I needed, very painless

I removed the 8800 Ultra and put in 2 x 9800gtx cards (on tomshardware benchmarks these cards are very very close in performance but the 9800s run alot cooler)
One monitor is connected to the first port of each card and I downloaded the latest drivers.

I installed 4GB more ram for a total of 8GB of ram, all identical match and model (Corsair XMS2DHX 2GB sticks DDR2). The system sees all the memory and its running well

Instead of wowmaximizer I used keyclones maximizer settings to lay out my clients

Turned off Aero, DWM was running my CPU's at 100%. After doing this my CPU usage dropped back to a normal 20% to 30%

Turned off UAC and Indexing for my drive.

End result:

Absolutely no gain, infact I think the gameplay is a little worse. Memory use never goes above 3.2GB so like someone previously said on these forums more than 4gb is not really needed to 5 box.

Can anyone think of any tweaks I may have missed that can make a major impact? The only thing left I can think to try is to use wowmaximizer for layout and see if that makes a chage.

[Khazrael]

Was there something that led you to believe your previous setup wasn't sufficient? Your OLD setup is probably a bit better then what I have now, and I feel I run pretty smooth with 5 instances going. While you're machine is definately stronger, it probably just didn't do anything for WoW specifically since it was probably fine to begin with. What kind of FPS did you get before?

[Nitro]

Under my old system after several hours of play if i went to a very crowded sunwell isle sometimes i would see some tearing, my card getting too hot I imagine. Out in the wild my fps on my main 1600x1200 client would generaly be 25-45 so it was pretty nice, in OGR and Shat it would drop to around 15-20.

Basically I was hoping to up my in city fps by another 5-10 fps and get cooler running video cards so i didnt burn up the ultra eventualy.

[Gallo]

when 5 boxing on 1 PC, I think that no matter what your setup that its expected that Shatt is going to be hell on your PC. Those 5 clients getting 100% of the lag/video resources possible in the game, is rough. I am FINE everywhere in the game, except Shatt (havent been to Sunwell Isle yet).

[Nitro]

when 5 boxing on 1 PC, I think that no matter what your setup that its expected that Shatt is going to be hell on your PC. Those 5 clients getting 100% of the lag/video resources possible in the game, is rough. I am FINE everywhere in the game, except Shatt (havent been to Sunwell Isle yet).

Yea I understand that, I am just always looking for ways to improve my setup. I would have though a graphics card per monitor would have been a big improvement but I guess there is another bottleneck involved that I didnt forsee.

[Anahka]

My quad-core rig is handling 4 or 5 WoW's a LOT better then my very high-end but dual-core gaming rig. The dual-core is running at 100% most of the time. The quad around 30%.

[Gallo]

My quad-core rig is handling 4 or 5 WoW's a LOT better then my very high-end but dual-core gaming rig. The dual-core is running at 100% most of the time. The quad around 30%.

I never know what my quad is running at when I'm in shatt, because it lags out so bad that I can't get task manager up lol. I dont know if its a CPU bottleneck, GPU, or memory. Who knows.

[Maz]

I don't think the lag we suffer in Shatt has anything to do with the performance of our video cards.

Rather, as Shatt is so densely populated, there's a hit because of:

Increased network traffic (there's more going on that our clients need to be told about), and
Increased disk/bus activity (more people wearing a greater variety of clothes means more models and textures that need to be loaded off disk and into our video cards).

If your video card and memory weren't the bottleneck before the upgrade, upgrading them won't help.

Similarly, Vista 64 won't help you as WoW is a 32 bit app and Vista will run it in 32 bit mode (see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WOW64).

[Eteocles]

Try using wowmaximizer again instead of Keyclone's Maximizer; when I opened wow with maximizer via keyclone my comp lagged baaaaaaaaaaaaaaad. When I ran wows manually via desktop icon I run smooth as silk. I've mentioned this to him back when I first got it in Jan but I don't really know if it's an issue on his end or mine or if he can even do anything about it, but give it a shot :p

Try with a single 9800 too...never know what an sli/crossfire setup might do or they could be fighting over who gets to render what like spoiled kids, lol, and the sad part is I'm at least partially serious; Computers are very finicky, very strange things that NEVER follow logic in how they act. To solve issues like this you have to think outside the box even if it seems stupid or unlikely :p Oftentimes that unlikely bit is the most likely lol

[Khazrael]

when 5 boxing on 1 PC, I think that no matter what your setup that its expected that Shatt is going to be hell on your PC. Those 5 clients getting 100% of the lag/video resources possible in the game, is rough. I am FINE everywhere in the game, except Shatt (havent been to Sunwell Isle yet).

Yea I understand that, I am just always looking for ways to improve my setup. I would have though a graphics card per monitor would have been a big improvement but I guess there is another bottleneck involved that I didnt forsee.

You mentioned your fps actually went down. I'm using Vista as well (32 bit though) and when I tried to put my second card back in it killed my FPS. Try running off of one card and see if it does anything for you. I'm sure you don't want to have to do that after having bought two new cards to use, but it's at least worth it to see if that's having the same effect on you it did on me.

I'm not sure whats causing that, and I haven't really looked too hard into a fix for it either because my two graphics cards were cheapy's I bought before I even began multiboxing, so I didn't really care that I took one out. Let a friend have it as a hand-me-down.

[Khazrael]

The only "waste" I see is buying Vista.

Haters :(. I actually rather like Vista to be honest.

[Code]

Just out of curiosity, what is the typical memory usage for add ons on your main + clones? Certainly you're not running Auctioneer / ItemDB / other large add ons on your clones?

How do you have your affinity configured? I've found that I get the best framerates by dividing up the work as much as I can.
WoW Instance / Affinity
A / 0 1 3 4
B / 0 1
C / 1 2
D / 2 3
E / 3 0
Although you've said your cores are each running between 20-30%, so this might not be the issue. By default Windows won't allocate your last two cores, so if you're not manually configuring them you could get a slight performance increase.

Also, have you tried closing your pr0n vidz while playing? This will really kill your FPS, as well as your concentration (>. .)>

[Kaynin]

I have one computer in my house with Vista. (wife's laptop). My brother also has vista on his new laptop. Not a day goes by that at least one of us says "I hate this thing".

That, and the constant: "Are you sure?" "Are you sure?" "Are you sure?" "Are you sure?" is enough to make anyone go crazy.

And yes, I hate it.

You can turn of the Are you sure thingy. :p

[Blubber]

It is my personal opinion that running 5 different instances of wow, from 5 different installs on 5 different disks is a total waste of both disk space, and money. If you look at how operating systems go about caching on-disk data in memory, I'd say running all instances of a single install is your best bet. So you might want to try that.

I'd say, with your setup, neither CPU power nor graphics power should pose a problem. The more likely culprit would be either disk caching, or maybe the pci bus speed. Or, maybe network traffic, but that doesn't sound very likely tbh, as a bottleneck there would result in you seeing shadows, instead of getting low fps in cities (at least that's what I think).

[Khazrael]

It is my personal opinion that running 5 different instances of wow, from 5 different installs on 5 different disks is a total waste of both disk space, and money. If you look at how operating systems go about caching on-disk data in memory, I'd say running all instances of a single install is your best bet. So you might want to try that.

Junctioning/Symbolic Links is win. It basically achieves this on a single drive, while allowing you to have multiple configurations.

[Maz]

You can turn of the Are you sure thingy. :p
Are you sure?

[Basilikos]

The only "waste" I see is buying Vista.

Well, I'm not too sure about that. If you're running multiple monitors, Vista is the way to go. Otherwise, just for gaming, no. That, and Vista Ultimate is totally unneeded for anything remotely related to multiboxing, so yeah, there's the real waste.

[ilikemages]

I run a shitty dual core 2 gb ram radeon gfx card computer (ran my dad about 1k)

when i use 3x wow i get the following:
out of city - 40 fps each
in city - 15 fps (shat included) with slight tearing and lag

4x wow:
out of city - 25
in city - 8-10 with tearing

it's playable, atleast for what i want to do at the moment.

i have a extra computer at home i'm going to be using to run 2 of them over the summer so it should be alot smoother.

TBH having 60fps is a little much, the game runs perfectly fine at around 30.

[Gallo]

You can turn of the Are you sure thingy. :p
Are you sure?

Haha I almost fell for this. I was thinking "Yeah, I definite sure that you can turn that off.... oh wait" lol.

[Speedbump]

Under my old system after several hours of play if i went to a very crowded sunwell isle sometimes i would see some tearing, my card getting too hot I imagine. Out in the wild my fps on my main 1600x1200 client would generaly be 25-45 so it was pretty nice, in OGR and Shat it would drop to around 15-20.

Basically I was hoping to up my in city fps by another 5-10 fps and get cooler running video cards so i didnt burn up the ultra eventualy.I am not running 5 on my main system like you are, but i do run 3 at 1600x1200 on a 8800GTX. I have the focus window set to a max of 90 and the two back windows at 25. In most areas the fps remains at the max. In the past i would on a rare occasion have an issue with texture ripping, eventually leading to a massive crash due to ground no longer being rendered and dropping to 2 fps. A fire totem would usually be the culprit for starting the meltdown. I always assumed it was a heat issue as well and had considered getting the 9800. There was a long time between occurrences so i couldn't really test it either.

The Sunwell release changed everything... Being on the Isle for more than an hour doing dailies would regularly cause the meltdown. So I loaded up the nVidia tools and started monitoring and adjusting settings. My card was not overheating... with fan speed at 100% it never went above 60C, even while it was in meltdown mode. I tried throttling and other things to make it stable but had no luck. However, if i only loaded 2 clients, I could not repeat the problem.

If you are still experiencing something similar to this with that setup? Could it be a memory issue with the cards?

[Eteocles]

Just dittoing Mages' post... AMD x64 4200 or 4500+ dual-core processor, 2gb dual-channel ddr2 ram, XP pro sp2, 7900 GS vidcard(unsure on ram, been so long I've forgotten lol) and I get about the same FPS he does in the same places, with maxfpsbk set to 20 and main maxfps set to 64 since it seems to max out around there anyways even if I set it higher. 30+ is playable though, wow ain't the most beautiful/realistic game in the world so a little fps/purdiness loss won't kill ya for performance ;p

I reiterate to OP though, try 1 card at a time as someone else suggested afterwards as well, and try non-keyclone maximizer, or outright manually setting the windows yourself; extra programs to do that work still eat cycles and every bit can count for us ;p you can also try running multiple windows that're the same size/stacked on top if you don't NEED to see them all at once(like I do; all 3 windows = 1280x1024, same res as my desktop res, windowed mode but maximized and none minimized to taskbar); having them maximized but not visible saves rendering cycles without being as bad for your switching as minimizing is, the latter causing lag as it brings the window back up and catches up to what's going on.



A fire totem would usually be the culprit for starting the meltdown. I always assumed it was a heat issue I can't be the only one who lol'd at that. :P But yeah Sunwell Island has ALOT of npcs, ALOT of players just like shatt, but these players are ALSO in combat with fast-respawning monsters who chase for miles, adding constant varied spell graphics to the equation, and then take the fact that blizzard likes to make blood elf areas look too fucking good for it's own good, lightning texturing etc you name it, there's extra load, plus all the bombing in those areas, constant flights, people porting in and out; it's a madhouse. :P Also, try toning down your front fps...90 is OVERKILL lol, 64 should be fine, maybe tone down the backgrounds to 20, barely noticeable difference :p

[Kaynin]

You can turn of the Are you sure thingy. :p
Are you sure?

Funny, but just incase you are sincere and really don't know.

(I do this by translating my dutch vista into english words, if any of you english people notice I didn't quite translate one proper that might cause confusion, please correct me. :P )

1. Go to configuration panel.
2. Go to user accounts.
3. Click on "user account configuration turn on/off"
- Turn off user account configuration (UAC) by clicking the check box.

4. Restart your pc.

Basicly, all it does is put an Are you sure, before every change to your system. It's designed for people who don't know how to use common sense when browsing and click on stuff they shouldn't click on. If you feel you are sufficiently informed on how things go online and properly protected by other means. (Common sense, ad blockers, etc, etc.) Then turning this off will not negatively effect your pc and you won't have to click the are you sure everytime something changes.

[Gallo]

Basicly, all it does is put an Are you sure, before every change to your system. It's designed for people who don't know how to use common sense when browsing and click on stuff they shouldn't click on. If you feel you are sufficiently informed on how things go online and properly protected by other means. (Common sense, ad blockers, etc, etc.) Then turning this off will not negatively effect your pc and you won't have to click the are you sure everytime something changes.

The "enhanced" layer of security with the "are you sure" crap in Vista is nothig more than a smoke and mirrors game. The end user is generallly still lost.

Sssshhhhhhhh :)

[Kaynin]

Well, the general idea behind it is, if you dont know what its for, dont click yes. :P

But yeah, I suppose most people would even then still click yes. xD

[Eteocles]

Don't be afraid to ask questions before you blow up your computer kids! Better to look a lil dumb about newfangled technology and learn from it than to stupidly click yes and end up having bonzi buddies having an orgy while advertising male growth pills on your desktop while someone hax into your Steam accounts and cheats on 'em without your knowledge getting you permabanned, followed by a rootkit turning your comp into a warez distro :p

Computers're still relatively "new" tech...and the computer generation is only now hitting adulthood while the majority are still old people who shat themselves at the wonders of "CLAP ON CLAP OFF LOL"; and as I said before, they're a finicky non-logical thing that the weirdest things will fix ;p

Also, post #1,000! Ding, 375/375 Forum Trolling skill ;p

[Kaynin]

I get better results with Vista.

But maybe it's just me being a driver junkie.

[Ughmahedhurtz]

It is my personal opinion that running 5 different instances of wow, from 5 different installs on 5 different disks is a total waste of both disk space, and money. If you look at how operating systems go about caching on-disk data in memory, I'd say running all instances of a single install is your best bet. So you might want to try that.

I'd say, with your setup, neither CPU power nor graphics power should pose a problem. The more likely culprit would be either disk caching, or maybe the pci bus speed. Or, maybe network traffic, but that doesn't sound very likely tbh, as a bottleneck there would result in you seeing shadows, instead of getting low fps in cities (at least that's what I think).If your disk activity is a blip here and there, using one vs many install directories won't yield a perceptible difference. Load times are really the only thing that affects, which should only result in Org/Shatt/IF lag for the first few seconds assuming you have _enough_ RAM.

I do agree that PCI or FSB speeds may be an issue here. That or RAM configuration/compatibility.

Nitro, what brand/spec RAM are you using?

[Nitro]

It is my personal opinion that running 5 different instances of wow, from 5 different installs on 5 different disks is a total waste of both disk space, and money. If you look at how operating systems go about caching on-disk data in memory, I'd say running all instances of a single install is your best bet. So you might want to try that.

I'd say, with your setup, neither CPU power nor graphics power should pose a problem. The more likely culprit would be either disk caching, or maybe the pci bus speed. Or, maybe network traffic, but that doesn't sound very likely tbh, as a bottleneck there would result in you seeing shadows, instead of getting low fps in cities (at least that's what I think).If your disk activity is a blip here and there, using one vs many install directories won't yield a perceptible difference. Load times are really the only thing that affects, which should only result in Org/Shatt/IF lag for the first few seconds assuming you have _enough_ RAM.

I do agree that PCI or FSB speeds may be an issue here. That or RAM configuration/compatibility.

Nitro, what brand/spec RAM are you using?

CORSAIR XMS2 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 SDRAM DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit Desktop Memory ('http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820145176')

The cheap stuff :P

I purchased 2 sets of these for a total of 8GB

Is there a test I can run to find out if my memory is a bottleneck in this situation?

[Gallo]

I've always wondered if the 1066 RAM is THAT much better. My mobo supports it, but the 800 was so much cheaper, I couldnt resist.

[d0z3rr]

I added another Raptor Drive and installed Windows Vista Ultimate 64 bit
It automatically found all the drivers I needed, very painless

BAD idea! As much as I like Windows, it does not handle drivers very well.

You should immediately go to the manufacturer's websites and download all the drivers. Get your motherboard/chipset drivers from intel.com, gfx card drivers from nvidia.com.

[Nitro]

I added another Raptor Drive and installed Windows Vista Ultimate 64 bit
It automatically found all the drivers I needed, very painless

BAD idea! As much as I like Windows, it does not handle drivers very well.

You should immediately go to the manufacturer's websites and download all the drivers. Get your motherboard/chipset drivers from intel.com, gfx card drivers from nvidia.com.

I'm a big proponent of if it aint broke dont fix it. I've had many cases where I went to upgrade drivers when things were already working trash my system so im a lil shy on it. But when all else fails here in a few days if I dont find an avenue to increase performance I will go dig up all the current drivers from the manufacture sites. The only drivers I specifically went and downloaded was my nvidia drivers and I updated the bios on my mobo.

[pinotnoir]

Something that helped me get my fps back was cleaning out old mod files from my wow folders. I went through and removed all the old shit and installed all the mods I want to use fresh and my fps is now normal. I was able to trace it down to old mod files because the fps on a few toons were rock solid but the other two sharing the same wow were crap. Once I cleared them its much better. I suggest you doing the same. I have vista 64 8gig ram quad 6600, two ati 3870 cards running 3 LCD's. Two hard drives running one wow on each with keyclone.

Clean out that WTF folder of all the old lua files.. or whatever they are called.

[Ughmahedhurtz]

I've always wondered if the 1066 RAM is THAT much better. My mobo supports it, but the 800 was so much cheaper, I couldnt resist.Well, the answer is "It Depends." If you're doing a task that does a LOT of memory transfers, the 1066 stuff is noticeably faster. If you're doing stuff where it isn't stressing the RAM much, obviously, you won't see much difference. 5-boxing on one PC would qualify as "stressing the RAM" IMO. :P The key, though, is the timings on the RAM itself. If you go from expensive 800MHz low-delay RAM to cheapie high-delay 1066 stuff, you won't see as much difference. Here is a great article that explains this stuff in more detail if you're interested: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/tight-timings-high-clock-frequencies,1236-10.html The TLDR version of that article is that you're better off OC'ing/upgrading your CPU than upgrading your RAM if you're already using good PC6400 or higher.

[Gallo]

Yeah, I have my CPU slightly OC'ed and my memory slightly OC'ed. I don't think I'm willing to upgrade until prices come down, or I'm forced to due to system req's.

[Frosty]

Just so you know..you all have ruined this game for me with your talk of 30+ FPS....

I've been playing since beta with 30 or less FPS. I'm happy when it's above 15 FPS. 8)

[Nitro]

Something that helped me get my fps back was cleaning out old mod files from my wow folders. I went through and removed all the old shit and installed all the mods I want to use fresh and my fps is now normal. I was able to trace it down to old mod files because the fps on a few toons were rock solid but the other two sharing the same wow were crap. Once I cleared them its much better. I suggest you doing the same. I have vista 64 8gig ram quad 6600, two ati 3870 cards running 3 LCD's. Two hard drives running one wow on each with keyclone.

Clean out that WTF folder of all the old lua files.. or whatever they are called.

I did all the addon cleanup long ago, and I would also like to note that depending on where im at in shat if I just run a single client with my updated setup at 1600x1200 I will average 90-140 FPS in shat.

[Nitro]

Would OC'ing my proc help at all if its not stressed?

I'm running a Intel Core 2 Quad Q6700 Kentsfield 2.66GHz 2 x 4MB L2 Cache LGA 775 95W Quad-Core Processor

I mounted a Zalman 9700 on it and it runs nice and cool. I'm sure there is tons of room to overclock it but I've never done any OC'ing before and since all 5 wows only use about 30% across all 4 cores I didnt think there would be a need to.

What do you guys think about OC'ing a Q6700, is it something I should look into?

I run all my stuff as i get it, ive never OC'ed my Proc, Mem or Gfx.

[Gallo]

OCing is pretty easy. I run a Q6600 (stock is 2.4ghz) at 3.0ghz with hardly changing the voltage no problemo. I have an aftermarket cooler like yourself. You could prob get to 3.2ghz EASILY. 3.4-3.6 if you're feeling it.

[Nitro]

OCing is pretty easy. I run a Q6600 (stock is 2.4ghz) at 3.0ghz with hardly changing the voltage no problemo. I have an aftermarket cooler like yourself. You could prob get to 3.2ghz EASILY. 3.4-3.6 if you're feeling it.

But have you checked your multiboxing performance before and after and noticed a difference?

[Gallo]

No, I can't say that I have. I OC'ed it from Day 1. But, for you, it's a pretty easy process. You work it in your bios. Just do it in very small increments. Bump your voltage a teeny bit, and bump your speed a teeny bit, start up, run Prime95 with some sort of program to watch your CPU temp, restart and repeat until satisfied.

[Nitro]

No, I can't say that I have. I OC'ed it from Day 1. But, for you, it's a pretty easy process. You work it in your bios. Just do it in very small increments. Bump your voltage a teeny bit, and bump your speed a teeny bit, start up, run Prime95 with some sort of program to watch your CPU temp, restart and repeat until satisfied.

I's there a favored guide I could follow?

[Gallo]

www.overclockers.com and tomshardware both have FAQ's about it.

[Ughmahedhurtz]

OC'ing may take some research. For RAM, it's much more difficult because a minor timings difference can result in memory corruption (I just went through this...gah). For CPUs, assuming your mobo is good quality, you can just up the multiplier (yours is probably set to 9x) until you get to 3.0-3.2GHz and call it a day. For RAM, you'll need to adjust your mobo BIOS timings tweaks to match the specs on the RAM. Once you get it all OC'd, you'll definitely want to run Prime95 in 4-core "Torture Test" mode overnight and make sure it doesn't show any errors. Here's some links to the tools you'll need to make sure everything is still kosher:

Core Temp utility ('http://www.alcpu.com/CoreTemp/') -- for watching the temps on all 4 cores. Should run during normal gaming no higher than ~65-70C and no higher than ~80C under torture test.
CPU-Z timings and specs identification utility ('http://www.cpuid.com/cpuz.php') -- for making sure the RAM, CPU and FSB are running at the correct timings and voltages.
Prime95 for quad-core systems ('http://www.mersenneforum.org/showthread.php?t=8981') -- Same as basic prime95 but supports dual/triple/quad CPUs. Run this on torture test overnight to validate data integrity at your current settings. This thread has the link to the Windows 64bit version.

Looking at the basic datasheet for your RAM, ('http://www.corsair.com/products/go.aspx?pn=TWIN2X4096-6400C5') it looks like the base timings are 5-5-5-18 @ 1.9V. You'll want to run CPU-Z and see what your voltage is ACTUALLY running at versus what you see in the RAM voltage settings, then tweak those to match it. As an example, mine was running at 1.8V by default but the RAM I have requires 2.0V. So I had to bump my "DDR2 Overvoltage" setting to +0.20V. Unfortunately, I don't see any settings for tRC, tRCD or any of the advanced stuff, which may or may not be a problem. Short version is set your mobo to 5-5-5-18 and the tweak to get it to 1.9V actual and then bump the speed/multiplier up a little and see if Prime95 will run successfully overnight. If it does, you're good. If not, back it off and try again. It's not a quick process and, as mentioned above, you'll get more results out of OC'ing your CPU than messing with the RAM.

Good luck!

[Majo]

If it were me, I would have spent $1000 on a 2nd machine to split the loads. With the way wow utilizes the resources of your machine, you would probably see alot more gain with in-city performance by splitting machines rather than upgrading your current one further.

[StormClouds]

This may be silly ... but I run on a MUCH older system then you ... you may want to try using WinEQ2 for your window management .... I run 5 and don't really lag at all.... though i havnt tried the other screen managers, as this one has always worked for me

[Nitro]

If it were me, I would have spent $1000 on a 2nd machine to split the loads. With the way wow utilizes the resources of your machine, you would probably see alot more gain with in-city performance by splitting machines rather than upgrading your current one further.

I already have 12 machines that can run wow very well, but im a fan of a single box setup:

http://www.knightsofshadow.org/ftpscreenshots/miscpics/wowsetup1.jpg

http://www.knightsofshadow.org/ftpscreenshots/miscpics/wowsetup2.jpg

[Korruptor]

Just a warning, using this tool can eat a ton of time getting the tweaks just right but I love it non the less.

http://www.nliteos.com/nlite.html
Service Pack Integration Component Removal Unattended Setup Driver Integration * Hotfixes Integration ** Tweaks Services Configuration Patches *** Bootable ISO creation
nlite is an OS mod tool. With it you can strip out all the crap in Windows like IE, WIM and anything else you want, the problem is that you *can* strip out too much and mess up your OS install but the tools warns you about what you should and shouldn't remove.

I've had great success using this tool in developing a lean XP SP2 install CD with all the latest nVidia/mobo/raid/ether drivers

When you run the tool you direct it to a CD and it extracts the installation files, then you can apply the latest SP's and hotfixes, all the drivers for your hardware (you can remove pre-existing ones as well), add an unattended installation config, remove/configure services, make registry tweaks, add any of your own apps to the image and then make a bootable CD.

Cheers!

The Windows OS's get progressively fatter with each new version so this app allows you to keep the best aspects and remove the crap that only slows your box down.

[Nitro]

Just a warning, using this tool can eat a ton of time getting the tweaks just right but I love it non the less.

http://www.nliteos.com/nlite.html
Service Pack Integration Component Removal Unattended Setup Driver Integration * Hotfixes Integration ** Tweaks Services Configuration Patches *** Bootable ISO creation
nlite is an OS mod tool. With it you can strip out all the crap in Windows like IE, WIM and anything else you want, the problem is that you *can* strip out too much and mess up your OS install but the tools warns you about what you should and shouldn't remove.

I've had great success using this tool in developing a lean XP SP2 install CD with all the latest nVidia/mobo/raid/ether drivers

When you run the tool you direct it to a CD and it extracts the installation files, then you can apply the latest SP's and hotfixes, all the drivers for your hardware (you can remove pre-existing ones as well), add an unattended installation config, remove/configure services, make registry tweaks, add any of your own apps to the image and then make a bootable CD.

Cheers!

The Windows OS's get progressively fatter with each new version so this app allows you to keep the best aspects and remove the crap that only slows your box down.

Yea nLites pretty cool, i use to manage alot of mobile devices in the MS labs (laptops, tapletPC, ultramobiles) and it was nice for building reinstallation disks with all the right drivers ready to go.

[Majo]

If it were me, I would have spent $1000 on a 2nd machine to split the loads. With the way wow utilizes the resources of your machine, you would probably see alot more gain with in-city performance by splitting machines rather than upgrading your current one further.

I already have 12 machines that can run wow very well, but im a fan of a single box setup:/boggle

O_o

I'm moving in, btw.

[BobGnarly]

I wouldn't OC anything, personally. You have plenty of horsepower to run what you're trying to do. Something is obviously not working right. (For reference, I have a core 2 duo + 8800gtx + 30" monitor and run 60fps main screen everywhere but major cities - 5 clients).

Things I would try:

As mentioned, pull one of the cards out of the machine (do this, don't just disable one card or w/e, physically pull it out) and run it all on one video card. Vista is supposed to be better about multicard monitor handling, but I'm always suspicious of this because it's just not a frequently stressed scenario (not many people run multiple video cards, and the vast preponderance of those who do use it for SLI).

Pull 4G of RAM (2 sticks) out. Running 4 sticks of RAM often causes extra wait states or generally poor memory performance. If you want 8G of RAM, I recommend doing it with 2 sticks. At least pull 2 of your sticks out and try it with 4G to see what happens.

Don't run 5 copies of wow in 5 different directories, and especially not on 5 different disks (if that's what you're doing). You are blowing per-disk caching, AND you are wasting a ton of whatever OS disk caching is happening. Assuming 5 instances of wow can't run in system disk cache, which I'm virtually positive it won't, you are thrashing that cache because you are loading off different disks (the OS doesn't know it's the same data). As mentioned, you are WAY better of running it all out of a single wow directory because each time it loads data for one client, it will be cached for the other 4 that are probably going to come in right behind it and want to load the exact same data. You can use links if you want to have different key mappings, etc between the clients. This one change made a HUGE difference in my setup, FWIW.

Those are the things I would start with. Hope it helps.

[Nitro]

The Final Verdict:

Got off work today and back to trying to track down the problem. The first thing I did was unplug monitor #2 from card number #2 and plug it into card #1 (effectivley giving me the same setup i use to have just with a new video card). I booted into my old XP Pro drive and set the dual monitors back to a spanned desktop so i could get a baseline of performance of the 9800GTX 512 vs the 8800 Ultra OC 768.

No fuckin joke, the 9800GTX smoked it hands down and I can now run through shat or ogr or sunwell with all 5 toons on one box at a whopping 40-50 fps. I couldnt be happier except if i woulda saved alot of money and just purchased one video card :p

Vista64 - dont bother, for 5 boxing on one machine vista is a waste of time, Xp Span mode is where its at.

Memory - Anything more than 4Gb is just not needed as has been mentioned by a few members of this forum before.

Dual Video Cards - I dont know why but this just seems to do nothing for us trash except trash our fps.

After reading all the reviews about the 9800gtx and most of them reflecting that its a trade off back on forth against the 8800 ultra i was very surprised, to be honest it did perform better in thier tests without AA running at some silly number so for 5 boxing wow this is one sweet card. Should be interesting to see how it holds up on an 8 hour run of high pop areas, ill report back on this later and let you all know.


I'm so happy to be running through cities 5 toons on 1 box at 40+ FPS - Goal Achieved and thanks for all your comments guys! :thumbsup:

[Chorizotarian]

Vista64 - dont bother, for 5 boxing on one machine vista is a waste of time, Xp Span mode is where its at.

Dual Video Cards - I dont know why but this just seems to do nothing for us trash except trash our fps.

I've had similar problems with Vista x64 and multiple cards/monitors, but I'm not willing to go back to XP due to security and other reasons. I might be willing to try Vista x32 though. Does anyone have a feel for whether the multiple GPU issues are better there?

[Menthu]

My computer hardware is the following:

Q6600 Quad Core
8800 GT 756 MB Vid Card
4 Gig Corsair 8xx Mhz

I play 4 chars and I get 45 FPS on ALL wow screens in Shat. I play on 1 PC and on 1 monitor.

just a note to compare you system with or for someone who is looking for a system.

<3 Menthu

[Havelcek]

Interesting post...I am close to ordering Vista64 with 8gb of RAM for new 5-box machine but this has made me pause.

[aetherg]

Hardware is always on diminishing returns. Past a certain point, you can spend a ton of money and not see much improvement. SLI in particular is completely not worth it. From my experience, the numbers in graphics card reviews are amazingly inflated. In your case, it sounds like there's a bottleneck somewhere other than video cards or RAM. You're probably constrained by your bus or just the operating system.

[OzPhoenix]

I have one computer in my house with Vista. (wife's laptop). My brother also has vista on his new laptop. Not a day goes by that at least one of us says "I hate this thing".

That, and the constant: "Are you sure?" "Are you sure?" "Are you sure?" "Are you sure?" is enough to make anyone go crazy.

And yes, I hate it.

You can turn of the Are you sure thingy. :p

Are you sure?

[Crucial]

I'd love to know why having a second dedicated video card driving a second monitor is not any faster (in fact it seems slower) than having 1 video card drive 2 monitors... I had a 7900GTX OC sitting on the shelf and threw it in with the 8800GTS with a monitor connected to each and there was no improvement at all. This is running on Vista 32 with 4 gigs of ram, and WD raptor drives - all running on one wow installation.

[Havelcek]

I thought I read somewhere that there is a driver problem where the 2nd card's renderer will actually not be utilized at all. I don't know if this is true or not.

[Crucial]

I thought I read somewhere that there is a driver problem where the 2nd card's renderer will actually not be utilized at all. I don't know if this is true or not.

DOH! Think this might be Vista only related?

[Havelcek]

I thought I read somewhere that there is a driver problem where the 2nd card's renderer will actually not be utilized at all. I don't know if this is true or not.


DOH! Think this might be Vista only related?I wouldn't be shocked if its a WoW problem.

[Crucial]

I thought I read somewhere that there is a driver problem where the 2nd card's renderer will actually not be utilized at all. I don't know if this is true or not.

This is all I could find so far: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/936710

[Havelcek]

Nitro, did you end up pulling half your RAM?

[Chorizotarian]

I thought I read somewhere that there is a driver problem where the 2nd card's renderer will actually not be utilized at all. I don't know if this is true or not.

This is all I could find so far: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/936710

WoW doesn't use DX10.

[Crucial]

I thought I read somewhere that there is a driver problem where the 2nd card's renderer will actually not be utilized at all. I don't know if this is true or not.

This is all I could find so far: http://support.microsoft.com/kb/936710

WoW doesn't use DX10.

Right but like I said, all I could find relating to this. Would be nice to know why 2 video cards + 2 monitors = same performance or worse performance as 1 video card driving two monitors.

[Nitro]

Nitro, did you end up pulling half your RAM?

Na, all 8Gb and both vid card are still in the rig even though im not using it all. I still have my vista 64bit partition incase i need to use it for another game or something.

[Stealthy]

Just thought I'd chime in here - since patch 2.4 I've seen a big drop in FPS on my main PC. My other PC's still run fine, but on my main in Shat & Sunwell I get 10-12 FPS consistantly. Pre-patch I was getting 50-60 no problemo. If you have a look through the WoW Tech Support forum, you see lots of posts mentioning either big drops in FPS, or outright crashing. I am 100% WoW is culprit - I can play other games like Crysis without any problem at all
BTW my system specs are:
2.4Ghz quad core CPU
4GB RAM
8800GTX 768MB RAM

Cheers,
Stealthy