Rack-mount servers for slave boxes?

[Old Dirty Bathtub]

Hi all. I'm a long-time lurker and first-time poster. I've been dual boxing for about a year and I'm planning to move up to a five box setup in the near future.

I'm wondering about using 1U rack-mount servers as slave boxes to save space and conserve power. Specifically, I'm considering this server ('http://www.geeks.com/details.asp?invtid=MONARCH-SERVER-2R').
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Of course I'll need to install an OS get a better PCI graphics card in there; I'm looking at XP and a 256m PCI GeForce 6200 ('http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130289') at the moment. With these upgrades, can anyone see any reason this wouldn't work? Would these boxes be robust enough to run two instances of WOW with the 256m 6200? Would it be worth the extra $15 per box to get a 512m PCI card?

Thanks to the whole community for a lot of great information -- I don't think I would have considered trying the move to 5 boxes without having such a good resource at hand! (So if my wife complains, I'm sending her to you guys...)

[Molt]

The specs on the machine look fine for running a couple of instances of WoW on with one slight reservation- the card you linked to seems to have a DVI port and a VGA port and if you're running multiple identical monitors off it you may well end up with one looking a lot clearer than the other. My own suspicion is that the 256MB would be okay too, although given the fact that there was a notable hardware bump when BC came out I personally would go to 512MB to make the box a little more WotLK-proof.

[Katharsis]

Rack mounts push a lot of air through small channels. Maybe they make them more quiet these days but if not, the noise might be unappealing in a small room.

[Ken]

I agree with the noise issue. Most of those servers are really loud.

I don't understand why you would want to buy multiple server systems, because rack-mounted hardware is often quite expensive(hardware and electricity bill-whise).
1 decent quad-core PC system with 1 main harddisk(for Windows and apps) and 5 smaller ones(for each WoW client), 4GB of RAM and a decent videocard(with 512MB memory) should do the trick. I bet that's a lot cheaper.

I run 4 WoW instances on 1 Linux machine which only has a single 2.8GHz core and 2 harddisks. It's not the fastest(I'm gonna upgrade to quad core), but it actually works! So 1 decent PC should suffice.

[Basilikos]

I don't understand why you would want to buy multiple server systems, because rack-mounted hardware is often quite expensive(hardware and electricity bill-wise).

This is true. I considered going rack-mounted before I started MBing, but it turns out you can easily build four decent system for what you'd build a single rack for.

Also, I have not attempted a linux solution. Anyone here know how to do that? I'm considering going purely hardware and would love to know how to avoid paying for more windows licenses.

Thanks.

[Djarid]

Also, I have not attempted a linux solution. Anyone here know how to do that? I'm considering going purely hardware and would love to know how to avoid paying for more windows licenses.
The Wiki is your friend! http://www.dual-boxing.com/wiki/index.php/Linux Contributed by Ken vh (Thanks Ken)

[Ken]

Also, I have not attempted a linux solution. Anyone here know how to do that? I'm considering going purely hardware and would love to know how to avoid paying for more windows licenses.
The Wiki is your friend! http://www.dual-boxing.com/wiki/index.php/Linux Contributed by Ken vh (Thanks Ken) You're welcome :)
I also added some other pages:
http://www.dual-boxing.com/wiki/index.php/Vista (also about symbolic linking, stuff I found in topics on the forum)
http://www.dual-boxing.com/wiki/index.php/How_to_Make_Movies This was empty, so I filled it a bit, since it was linked from the front page.

By the by:
General performance in Linux is better than in Windows Vista. It is worse than in XP though, but very very playable.

[Xzin]

Rack mounts cost more too. Just buy 5 traditional machines and stack them. Air flow will be fine. If you need space, get MicroATX boards.

[Nisch]

I'm slowly migrating my setup from a mid-tower setup to a rackmount. I've got my main in a 4U case. I agree that 1U is WAY too loud, and really 2U should be the minimum height for the fan noise and cooling. 3U would be more ideal for the slaves and a 4U for your main. I'm going to end up with a 19U height, which comes out to be about 40" tall, but reasonably quiet.

I remember at my last job I went from tower servers to a 1U rack setup. Mind you my office is where the servers were. That was a HUGE mistake. Only go 1U if you can remote mount them in a closet or another room.

[Basilikos]

If you need space, get MicroATX boards.

he's not joking, here. If the OP would like ne to link some recommended Newegg parts for building machines with these boards, I'll be happy to. If / When I switch over to hardware-only specs, I have a pre-designed system that is more than sufficient to run a single WoW client for not a lot of money at all. bear in mind there is the cost of monitors / multiplexers / all that jazz, but the machines themselves can be built to be perfectly fine. It's also far easier on your hardware to run only one WoW instance. If you're not planning on overclocking hardware (which I never do, I spend too much to risk damage), then stock cooling is fine (especially with the lesser heat from a single WoW).

The power bill will go up, but I look at it as an investment in protecting my hardware.

[Drakkun]

I'd also add that the ATI Rage XL is a terrible card for gaming. I tried to play single player games with one before and it barely got 3FPS in most games. Not sure if you can replace the video card in a 1U server.

[Shiena]

Also, if you want to go the Linux route, go for nvidia cards, not for ATI cards. ATI drivers happen to break often and with quite a few bad issues under Linux. E.g. since early 2007 not a single version of the ATI Linux drivers survived a X server restart, but just freezes the whole system. Happens with most current ATI cards, no matter if its mobile or standard versions.

[Old Dirty Bathtub]

Thanks for the advice so far.

The price factor isn't so much an issue in this case; new rack-mount hardware is crazy expensive, and I certainly wouldn't be considering this venue at all if I were building from scratch or looking at new hardware. The server I'm looking at is a refurb and the only additional hardware I'm putting in it is a $60 graphics card. The total is just over $300 per unit for a box with two processors and 4 gigs of RAM.

I admit I'm significantly more concerned about the noise issue. I've never really worked with rack-mount machines before, so I had no idea that a 1U would present such a noise issue. The first rack-mount box is going to replace an increasingly-unreliable home-grown system that has noise issues of its own, but I was hoping to solve that problem rather than make it worse. I have one server on order as an experiment; if it is too noisy I'll banish it to the garage and make it a file server.

Basilikos, I'd like to see what sort of system you're looking at. I've played around with some configurations as well, but I haven't found a low price combination that I like too much.

[Basilikos]

Basilikos, I'd like to see what sort of system you're looking at. I've played around with some configurations as well, but I haven't found a low price combination that I like too much.

Certainly. I'm busy today, but I will get a part list posted up here sometime soon (like today or tomorrow).

[Freddie]

Last year as an experiment I built a new pc in a large rack mount case (4u) using regular desktop components. I like it so much I'll never go back to desktop cases. Here's the case I used. It's only $65, nothing fancy. It has a crappy paint job, but it's well made from heavy steel:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811182566

[Basilikos]

Basilikos, I'd like to see what sort of system you're looking at. I've played around with some configurations as well, but I haven't found a low price combination that I like too much.

Okay, so here's the list. Note that this would also work well with Freddie's case (with the additional cost of a power supply) if that appeals to you.

Recall, first, that this system is designed to run a single instance of WoW well. 2-instance notes follow the parts list.

Case ('http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811154050') $40 (note that, depending on the PS with this case, you may need to purchase a set of adapters either for SATA or Molex devices)
Mainboard ('http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131199') $47
Video Card ('http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814121094') $70
Ram (x2) ('http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820134045') $40
Processor ('http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115029') $180
Hard Drive ('http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822148231') $44
DVD ROM Drive ('http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16827101131') $18

Details:

Micro ATX case / mainboard for space saving. Nvidia GeForce 8600 GT 256MB video card. Intel Core 2 Duo @2.33 (I think) GHz. 80GB Sata 2 HDD. 2 GB RAM. Asus mainboard (pretty decent). The only thing that would worry me is the in-case power supply, but reports from users are that it is totally stable.

Total so far: $439

Operating systems are going to be user-picked, anyway. But the ballpark is going to be another $100 or so for a home or basic version of whatever windows variant you want.
Total with commercial OS: $539.

Modifications for two instances of WoW would be to put in a much more powerful video card, a quad core processor (if you want bare-minimum smoothness out of it), more HDDs (or NFTS junction points as an alternative). You might be looking at an $800 system to run two instances of WoW.

Just a reminder - this system is designed to run WoW SMOOTHLY, not at bare-minimum performance. So it's a LITTLE more that some would like, but still called for IMO.

[Speedbump]

Last year as an experiment I built a new pc in a large rack mount case (4u) using regular desktop components. I like it so much I'll never go back to desktop cases. Here's the case I used. It's only $65, nothing fancy. It has a crappy paint job, but it's well made from heavy steel:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811182566I definitely agree with you on the paint job, I scratched the top and bottom of mine very easily while putting them in my rack. At least it isn't visible now. For reduced noise i highly recommend 120mm fan cases. This case uses 1 120mm for the front and up to 2 80mm fans for the rear. The stock 120mm is quiet, but i did pickup some better quality 80mm ones for the rear, went LED too for some extra light whenever i work on the back end of the rack and just a faint glow on the front.

Here is how 3 of em look. System details are listed HERE ('http://www.dual-boxing.com/forums/index.php?page=Thread&threadID=2718'). As for power, not including 2 monitors, that rack and tower only have a load of around 550 watts idle, 610 in wow, according to my UPS.

http://www.caisolutions.com/user/david/BumpSetup3.jpg

[Freddie]

I agree with you about the fans. I put three Noctuas in mine.

[Djarid]

I admit I'm significantly more concerned about the noise issue. I've never really worked with rack-mount machines before, so I had no idea that a 1U would present such a noise issue. The first rack-mount box is going to replace an increasingly-unreliable home-grown system that has noise issues of its own, but I was hoping to solve that problem rather than make it worse. I have one server on order as an experiment; if it is too noisy I'll banish it to the garage and make it a file server.
1U servers tend to be the noisiest :( not since the days of Compaq Proliant 3300 server on power up with a PSU missing have I heard such a racket.

Get a couple of hundred servers in a room and you get startled a lot when colleagues appear at your elbow without warning!

[Old Dirty Bathtub]

the noise might be unappealing in a small room."Unappealing" is an epic understatement!

I finally got the refurb 1U server I ordered as a test. Within a minute of plugging it in and turning it on, the demonic howling of the fans actually began to cause me physical pain. The noise is actually unappealing in a small neighborhood and utterly unbearable in a small room (or house). I'm generally not terribly noise-sensitive, but being anywhere near this server was like having a 727 in a holding pattern inside my skull.

Let this serve as a warning to any future reader without much rack-mount experience (like me at the start of this thread). DO NOT mess around with 1U servers. No matter how tough you think you are, the shrieking racket these things turn out will crush you.

I think I'm going to re-pot this hardware in the nice 4U codegen case linked above and consider this a lesson learned. Thanks to all of you who tried to warn me, and additional thanks to Basilikos for posting some good hardware alternatives.

[Nisch]

told ya... :D