Think I'm Done

[Mosg2]

http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.html?topicId=5973993258&sid=1

I can't believe they're putting such ridiculous rating requirements on S4 AND the Honor gear. I mean... It's a LADDER system. Do they really want to make it so that that little of the population has access to the gear?

If it goes through like this then I think I'm done with non-multiboxing.

[Majestic_Clown]

tbh i think its fair, stopped the pvpers going to pve and people will have to earn their gear, for multiboxers is does indeed suck

just imo

[Shiena]

It will actually reduce the number of people with full S4 gear to a percentage that equals the amount of people to raid the Sunwell. So it basically prevents PvP gear on the same level as the Sunwell and T6 gear from leaking into normal game.

I actually think it's good. Because S3 still is in reach for non-hardcore players.

[Silly Gooooose]

2200 is still easy, lol. You just need skilled players... My 5s team ran to 2200 with a blue geared pally... The first piece of arena gear he bought were his shoulders, lol.

[Eteocles]

S3 is ridiculously powerful as it is...you don't need s4, you'll still steamroll everyone BUT the s4 people...god I hate arenas...lol

[Los]

its a ladder system? no its a get boosted and get epicz for free system, good change! MUCH too late

[Stabface]

I agree, good change but too late in the game to really matter much. Maybe in WotLK the Arenas will be worth actually competing in.

[Eteocles]

Good point Los...just like people buy powerlvling and gold because they're lazy people buy teams because they're lazy and don't want to earn or actually "own" their achievements. Only difference in this case is that people're paying ingame gold rather than RL money for their non-work, thus bypassing any rules in place to prevent unfair, unearned advantages =\

[Mosg2]

I've got no problem with the changes to point selling--That's fine. What I have a problem with is the individual item's arena rating requirement PLUS the f'ing HONOR GEAR having an arena rating requirement.

It *is* a ladder system and this does mean that not very many people at all will have full S4. I understand Blizz's desire to make S4 more unique and uncommon but FFS... A "normal" person gaining arena points every week takes almost the entire season to get a full set of the arena gear if they're not buying points. Since we're taking points buying out of the picture...

[Los]

Then you go get s3, which is the equivalent of TIER6.. t6 .. let it echo in your mind a bit, t6 .. buy s2 for honor, s3 for arena points, s4 with extra hard rating whats the problem?

[Eteocles]

Disclaimer: You guys know I bitch about arenas ;p Don't take it personally, just my view on things.

"Since we're taking buying points out of the picture..."

Proper ending to the sentence: ...people will actually have stuff they earned and deserve, and feel proud of it, rather than instantly having everything handed to them then complaining they're bored.

[Los]

I dont really mind the team buying, heck its allowed by blizz so mweh, what i do mind is that they waited this long to make this effort in changing ratings. Its almost wotlk time .. cmon :(

[Gallo]

I've got no problem with the changes to point selling--That's fine. What I have a problem with is the individual item's arena rating requirement PLUS the f'ing HONOR GEAR having an arena rating requirement.

It *is* a ladder system and this does mean that not very many people at all will have full S4. I understand Blizz's desire to make S4 more unique and uncommon but FFS... A "normal" person gaining arena points every week takes almost the entire season to get a full set of the arena gear if they're not buying points. Since we're taking points buying out of the picture...

Thats the point though... normal people shouldn't be able to get it. Only the people dedicated enough to make Arena their #1 priority AND put in a lot of time. It's just like raiding. I don't know, I don't have too much sympathy for people QQing that everyone won't have access to everything in the game. I hear that Everquest is FAR more elitist gear-wise.

[Boylston]

I think the changes seem great so far... It should help prevent point buying and team selling.

I still think they need to implement a "cooldown" to changing teams. Leaving a team ought to make you ineligible to rejoin another for 7 days. That would stop a lot of the arena mechanics abuse.

[Los]

I dont really mind the team buying, heck its allowed by blizz so mweh, what i do mind is that they waited this long to make this effort in changing ratings. Its almost wotlk time .. cmon :(

do not forget how the PvP system USED to work. IE - 24/7 grind for 6 months to get the rating to be able to buy gear. Miss a day of playing? Sets you back a month.

Two guys from my raiding guild did it back in the day - they had four people playing each account around the clock for ~6 months.

Seriously - The arena system is NOTHING compared to that.The ladder system (allthough those ranks where fun imho) had its flaws ofc, but saying one thing is bad doesnt mean something else is good. Its not an if mwe then mweh because mweh is mweh then.

[Los]

The ladder system (allthough those ranks where fun imho) had its flaws ofc, but saying one thing is bad doesnt mean something else is good. Its not an if mwe then mweh because mweh is mweh then.

Say what? You totally lost me with the mewh thing. :PHehe, I like to say mweh, sorry about that ;). Just was trying to say that if 1 is bad 2 isnt automaticly good (or worse for that matter).

[Diamndzngunz]

That's BS

[Skuggomann]

I think its good :)

[Majo]

System 3 - "Arena S1" - Rating requirment to buy the gear..Rating requirements didn't come until Season 3. Not important just thought I'd point it out =P

Like you said, they went from an extremely difficult system, to an extremely easy one, and now they're inching it back up in difficulty.

I agree that it's a good change!

[Drakkun]

System 3 - "Arena S1" - Rating requirment to buy the gear..Rating requirements didn't come until Season 3. Not important just thought I'd point it out =P

Like you said, they went from an extremely difficult system, to an extremely easy one, and now they're inching it back up in difficulty.

I agree that it's a good change!

I thought there was a team rating requirement for S2 gear (shoulders and weapons), and S3 introduced the personal rating...? but ya, there wasn't anything for S1. :)S2 had no rating req's for purchase. Everyone could get full 5/5 S2 with S2 weapons.

[Code]

About the time I'll actually care about S4, Wrath comes out... Then we'll poan in our 75 greenz for a while, and we get to start all over^^ It's likely they'll make similar mistakes with the honor system as they have in the past, who knows... This will mirror the previous honor system to the extent only the truly diligent will have their respective Rank14/2200+ piece.

[Mac]

I started looking at other games on the shelves. I logged into some games I used to play and said hi to some old friends. They may be right, I might now feel some regret over selling off all my land, gear, and skills. Its not worth re-investing the time and money to get back to where I was there now. I'm not sure what I want to do, but the grind is definitely getting to me here.

[Bigfish]

Once I finish getting all my alt party to 70 (and subsequently having a 70 of every class) and get them geared out, I'll probably end up quitting for a while. I'm not going to level a bunch of Shamans to Arena, and I don't like raiding, so I'm left with very little to do. Wish they would take the emphasis off that stuff and start making content for people who don't want to play on a schedule.

[Mosg2]

The point I'm trying to make is not about point selling--They're fixing that *quite* well, though anyone will still be able to smurf their teams up easily if you've got the time and inclination.

What I'm saying is bad is adding an arena rating requirement to pretty much all of the S4+S4 Honor gear. It's stupid.

I'm in the Navy. I deploy irregularly for random amounts of time. My work life doesn't allow me to be on a 2k+ rated team--Who wants someone who may or may not be here next week? The fact that, over time (Lots of it, mind you) you could accrue the honor points for the same rewards was the only thing keeping me in WoW. Sure, I'm only plugging along at ~500 points a week but *eventually* I'll get the gear. Now? Not really.

With the changes to point selling and rating selling, they're limiting the weapons and shoulders to less than 1% of the population and cutting the rest off to quite a bit of people. It's one thing if they want to make the stuff more rare, but it's only going to increase the divide between casuals and hardcore people.

To me, it should be about total time invested in this case: You put in X time and you get X rewards.

[Stealthy]

Whilst I agree this will kill off win trading, I don't think it will stop point selling to any great degree. In fact point selling just got a whole lot more profitable, since powerlevelling will be the only option for many casuals to get the S4 gear.

I think the need some kind of gear matching to balance it out. This would prevent fully S3/S4 geared teams coming down to the lower brackets and smashing poorly geared teams for points.

Cheers,
Stealthy

[Mosg2]

Well, it's against the forum's ToS to talk about the how of win trading, but this actually does nothing to stop it.

It *does* stop point selling though. The only way to do it is to actually grind a team up to the desired rating with the people who're buying points... But then what's the point? :)

[yarr]

yeah it does stop any practical method of points selling

the only way to do it now would be to "carry" a bad person, they pretty much have to play in most of the games from 1500 up to the desired rating, which is a royal pain in the arse for both parties.

I'd say the only ppl who could reliably points sell now without it being retardedly annoying would be aellie and/or other quad-box shamans (once you get gear & strategy down)

and that would pretty much only work for healers =P

[Silly Gooooose]

Disclaimer: You guys know I bitch about arenas ;p Don't take it personally, just my view on things.

"Since we're taking buying points out of the picture..."

Proper ending to the sentence: ...people will actually have stuff they earned and deserve, and feel proud of it, rather than instantly having everything handed to them then complaining they're bored.

While I agree you do get bored, I enjoy being better than others, at the things I enjoy, I.E. killing people. Though I damn sure have never bought points, I can see why some one would wish to skip the gearing phase and go to the "lol i can kill you with 1 hand behind my back" feeling. Though it gets old.

[Los]

The point I'm trying to make is not about point selling--They're fixing that *quite* well, though anyone will still be able to smurf their teams up easily if you've got the time and inclination.

What I'm saying is bad is adding an arena rating requirement to pretty much all of the S4+S4 Honor gear. It's stupid.

I'm in the Navy. I deploy irregularly for random amounts of time. My work life doesn't allow me to be on a 2k+ rated team--Who wants someone who may or may not be here next week? The fact that, over time (Lots of it, mind you) you could accrue the honor points for the same rewards was the only thing keeping me in WoW. Sure, I'm only plugging along at ~500 points a week but *eventually* I'll get the gear. Now? Not really.

With the changes to point selling and rating selling, they're limiting the weapons and shoulders to less than 1% of the population and cutting the rest off to quite a bit of people. It's one thing if they want to make the stuff more rare, but it's only going to increase the divide between casuals and hardcore people.

To me, it should be about total time invested in this case: You put in X time and you get X rewards.Ow come on, why always the 'I dont have time, so the ratings must go', -crap? If you cant put in the time to train yourself and your teammates up to a decent rating, why should you get the gear? And why shouldnt you be able to get a team going to reach high ratings. You are to lazy to arrange your surroundings to help you and then you dislike it when somebody throws hurdles at you, come on man.

And what is wrong with a division between casual and hardcore people? Why should you, who will be putting less effort/time into something opposed to hardcore person x, get the same gear as somebody that does twice that amount of time effort, thats retarded.

[Mosg2]

The point I'm trying to make is not about point selling--They're fixing that *quite* well, though anyone will still be able to smurf their teams up easily if you've got the time and inclination.

What I'm saying is bad is adding an arena rating requirement to pretty much all of the S4+S4 Honor gear. It's stupid.

I'm in the Navy. I deploy irregularly for random amounts of time. My work life doesn't allow me to be on a 2k+ rated team--Who wants someone who may or may not be here next week? The fact that, over time (Lots of it, mind you) you could accrue the honor points for the same rewards was the only thing keeping me in WoW. Sure, I'm only plugging along at ~500 points a week but *eventually* I'll get the gear. Now? Not really.

With the changes to point selling and rating selling, they're limiting the weapons and shoulders to less than 1% of the population and cutting the rest off to quite a bit of people. It's one thing if they want to make the stuff more rare, but it's only going to increase the divide between casuals and hardcore people.

To me, it should be about total time invested in this case: You put in X time and you get X rewards.Ow come on, why always the 'I dont have time, so the ratings must go', -crap? If you cant put in the time to train yourself and your teammates up to a decent rating, why should you get the gear? And why shouldnt you be able to get a team going to reach high ratings. You are to lazy to arrange your surroundings to help you and then you dislike it when somebody throws hurdles at you, come on man.

And what is wrong with a division between casual and hardcore people? Why should you, who will be putting less effort/time into something opposed to hardcore person x, get the same gear as somebody that does twice that amount of time effort, thats retarded.

Because it should be about time invested. The division between hardcore and casual people is the total amount of life-time it takes them to get rewards--What they can do in a few weeks may take me months, but I shouldn't be cock-blocked from those same rewards... And please don't try and tell me that raiding is harder than any other facet of this game.

And for me personally, as I explained (If you'd taken the time to comprehend it, that is), I can't train a team to get to high ratings because of my committment to my job. That's not something that is flexible when you're in the military, bud.

[Los]

Because it should be about time invested. The division between hardcore and casual people is the total amount of life-time it takes them to get rewards--What they can do in a few weeks may take me months, but I shouldn't be cock-blocked from those same rewards... And please don't try and tell me that raiding is harder than any other facet of this game.

And for me personally, as I explained (If you'd taken the time to comprehend it, that is), I can't train a team to get to high ratings because of my committment to my job. That's not something that is flexible when you're in the military, bud.


Raiding is different, to be honest both pve and pvp have their charmes and also a lot of disliking about them, but going on for months on a boss is something different then gaining points in an arena no matter how you put it.

There is no I can't in this world, only I will not.

[Kaynin]

Rating requirements are fine, I'd say..

The first PvP honor point system required time. Loads of time, seas of time! But other then time, nothing. You just needed time, time, time.

That system sucked. It just did.

Arena's changed that. Needing only 10 games to receive points each week allowed even the more casual people to gather some gear and actually compete. The fact everyone is now in PvP gear is -not- a bad thing. If you think it is, then you have to re-evaluate your idea of PvP! *nodnod*

Anyhow, the personal rating required for the top notch of the arena gear is just the reward for the people putting enough time and devotion in it to be succesful. Whilest the more casual players will just have to do with lower tier arena gear. This isn't a bad thing, the essential difference between s1 and s3 for example, it's there, but someone in full s1 still stands a fair chance against someone in s3. The gap is there, but not as immense as it used to be. If you can't reach the rating to get the top notch stuff, then that's just your loss. For the ones that does reach it, will then have an actual reward to show for it.

So, in a nutshell, the pvp systems blizzard brought since TBC (granted with a few glitches and bugs, but the idea in essence!) is a very good one! It is able to satisfy -all- of the players out there, be it casual or hardcore. While keeping the general PvP environment as balanced as possible, without going too green to give everyone -exactly- the same gear. More effort = better, but not invincible, gear.

[butta]

It's a LADDER system. You said it all right there. There's no reason for the apple at the top of the tree to be available to everyone on the first rung. You have to earn it. Honestly this is a good thing as it will reduce the teams who float around 1500 (and lower) fully geared in the latest season's offerings. The other changes they are making to points received (essentially nerfing point selling teams) are going to be great as well -- losing to a full vengeful team won't cost you 16 hard earned points.

I really wish this could have been around at the start of arena.. I think it would have taken TBC in a completely different direction. A content oriented direction. But at the time the only honor gear was the way overpriced blues (remember? before they reduced the honor point cost of the set?). Come to think of it.. the raiders would probably have gotten all the arena gear first, seeing as pve gear was still pretty good at mashing the blue pvp honor set. Meh, it won't make a huge difference in what is likely the last season of the expansion. Get season 3/2 imo, they're very powerful sets for all classes and after all -- you're not entitled to the latest and greatest just because you show up.

[d0z3rr]

I think it's good too, that way hardcore people will actually look elite. Whereas now they kind of just blend in with all the other pvpers. In fact, everyone looks the same nowadays, it was always nice to see that pvp guild that is the only one decked out in nice gear.

[Maz]

While Season 3 is still going strong, we wanted to announce ahead of time the rating requirements that will be present for arena items once Season 4 begins. We also wanted to give everyone a heads up to some changes that will be in an upcoming patch, altering how points are gained and players are matched in the arena system. The patch with these changes is scheduled to release before the start of Season 4.

First though, the rating requirement changes:

When Season 4 begins, Season 3 items will be reduced in personal and team arena rating requirement to:

Shoulders: 1950
Weapon: 1800

The new Season 4 items will have the below personal and team arena rating requirements:

Shoulders: 2200
Weapon: 2050
Head: 1700
Chest: 1600
Legs: 1550
Gloves: none
Off-hand: none

In addition, some of the Season 4 quality items that will be purchasable with honor will also carry a personal and team arena rating requirement:

Boots: 1700
Ring: 1650
Bracers: 1575
Belt: none
Necklace: none
Trinket: none

The Season 2 items, which will move to the honor system when Season 4 begins, will continue to have no rating requirement.

The changes to the rating requirements for these items reflect the nature of the items, their power, and the relative difficulty that should be had when attempting to obtain them. These items are comparable to those found in the newest 25 person raid zone, Sunwell Plateau, and should therefore also feel very challenging to obtain.

To help ensure that the challenge in obtaining these items stays true to those achieving these ratings, we'll also be implementing new rules with an upcoming patch to curb practices that undermine the core concepts of the arena system. These rules are as follows:

If a character’s personal rating is more than 150 points below the team rating, they will earn points based on their personal rating instead of the team rating.

This means that a player cannot join a highly rated team and begin earning points based purely on the pre-established rating of the team before they joined it. They'll need to compete, improve, and gain a personal rating worthy of the points they would receive.

If the average personal rating of the players queuing for a game is more than 150 points below the team’s rating, the team will be queued against an opponent matching or similar to the average personal rating.

This means that players cannot join a highly rated team and immediately face highly rated opponents, easily and quickly bringing their personal rating up. Instead they'll need to again compete, improve, and earn their rating.

We're excited to see these changes implemented, which will continue to emphasize the strong competitive nature of the arenas, and the challenge in obtaining the highest end rewards available for PvP.

**Update**
If a team does not enter an arena match that is starting they will lose points equal to the amount that would have been deducted if they had played and lost.

This change makes it less viable to participate in illegitimate team match-ups by requiring every game be played; not just those that are against a team's desired opponent. I'm unhappy with this change because I love battlegrounds but I hate arena.

Right now, it's a good time to be a battleground junkie. You can play the aspect of the game you enjoy and improve your gear as you do just as you can if you're an arena junkie or a PVE junkie. The problem is that with this change, I'm gonna hit the gear cap real soon now. My main has full vindicator's and is well on the way to banking 400 marks of honor and 75000 honor. Once S4 hits, it'll take me about two weeks to get the S2 gear and the three bits of the new honor gear that are free from arena requirements.

At that point, I'll still do battlegrounds but improving your gear is one of the cornerstones of MMORPG design. If you can't do that, you're removing one of the motivations to play.

I don't care that I won't have S4 (or even S3); my e-peen is quite secure. I just want to play the aspects of the game I enjoy and occasionally get some reward for doing so.

[Gallo]

Once I finish getting all my alt party to 70 (and subsequently having a 70 of every class) and get them geared out, I'll probably end up quitting for a while. I'm not going to level a bunch of Shamans to Arena, and I don't like raiding, so I'm left with very little to do. Wish they would take the emphasis off that stuff and start making content for people who don't want to play on a schedule.

Don't take this the wrong way, because I am EXACTLY the same way I think, but it really amazes me how many people have this mentality. It seems like A LOT of people playing WoW barely have a reason to be playing. They seem to not have the time, have lost interest in pretty much everything in the game, but they just cannot put it down. I've been doing this for months (which is why i took up 5boxing), and it still is crazy to me that tons of other people seem to play the game with very little interest left.

[Eteocles]

Instead they'll need to again compete, improve, and earn their rating. I love you, Blizz. Have my space turkey babies for making people earn what they think they deserve.

Max, gear will come and go, especially once Wrath hits, get what you can without focusing too hard on it and enjoy the ride to said gear. Have fun, blow people up, get blown up, res and lol at that rogue who tried to gank an alt then got quad frostshocked for his trouble :p Enjoy yourself, the gear will come in time and if you don't think actively about it you'll be geared in no time anyways

Also, regarding the "No raids, no pvp, needs more no-schedule entertainment"; try visiting Quel'Danas sometime :p TONS of dailies added with the Sunwell invasion scattered around Sunwell Isle & Outland, something you can do for a couple hours for nice loot, money, and even a Heroic Badge rarely. But besides Raiding and PVP, what's left? Heroics? Farming for yourself? It just seems like you don't like the only things available endgame lol

[Mosg2]

Instead they'll need to again compete, improve, and earn their rating. I love you, Blizz. Have my space turkey babies for making people earn what they think they deserve.

Max, gear will come and go, especially once Wrath hits, get what you can without focusing too hard on it and enjoy the ride to said gear. Have fun, blow people up, get blown up, res and lol at that rogue who tried to gank an alt then got quad frostshocked for his trouble :p Enjoy yourself, the gear will come in time and if you don't think actively about it you'll be geared in no time anyways

Also, regarding the "No raids, no pvp, needs more no-schedule entertainment"; try visiting Quel'Danas sometime :p TONS of dailies added with the Sunwell invasion scattered around Sunwell Isle & Outland, something you can do for a couple hours for nice loot, money, and even a Heroic Badge rarely. But besides Raiding and PVP, what's left? Heroics? Farming for yourself? It just seems like you don't like the only things available endgame lol

I was exalted with Shattered Sun Offensive less than week after the patch went live. I would consider myself hardcore when I'm not deployed.

I *do* enjoy arenas. With my deployment schedule, I can't play one of my single toons to a high arena rating because it requires a lot of time to gel with a new team. They expect you to be there for the full ride. With my girls... All I need is a semi-decent healer :)

And to whoever said "There is only 'I won't in life, not I can't'"... You have no idea what you're talking about. Go volunteer for sea duty over work in the sandbox and talk to me about how much free time you get.

[Los]

Instead they'll need to again compete, improve, and earn their rating. I love you, Blizz. Have my space turkey babies for making people earn what they think they deserve.

Max, gear will come and go, especially once Wrath hits, get what you can without focusing too hard on it and enjoy the ride to said gear. Have fun, blow people up, get blown up, res and lol at that rogue who tried to gank an alt then got quad frostshocked for his trouble :p Enjoy yourself, the gear will come in time and if you don't think actively about it you'll be geared in no time anyways

Also, regarding the "No raids, no pvp, needs more no-schedule entertainment"; try visiting Quel'Danas sometime :p TONS of dailies added with the Sunwell invasion scattered around Sunwell Isle & Outland, something you can do for a couple hours for nice loot, money, and even a Heroic Badge rarely. But besides Raiding and PVP, what's left? Heroics? Farming for yourself? It just seems like you don't like the only things available endgame lol

I was exalted with Shattered Sun Offensive less than week after the patch went live. I would consider myself hardcore when I'm not deployed.

I *do* enjoy arenas. With my deployment schedule, I can't play one of my single toons to a high arena rating because it requires a lot of time to gel with a new team. They expect you to be there for the full ride. With my girls... All I need is a semi-decent healer :)

And to whoever said "There is only 'I won't in life, not I can't'"... You have no idea what you're talking about. Go volunteer for sea duty over work in the sandbox and talk to me about how much free time you get.Excuse me, you are the one complaining about free time, not me. If you wanted you could quit your job, and dont give me that 'go volunteer' its your choice to do so, im not the one complaining that life does go on when being abroad.

[Mosg2]

Instead they'll need to again compete, improve, and earn their rating. I love you, Blizz. Have my space turkey babies for making people earn what they think they deserve.

Max, gear will come and go, especially once Wrath hits, get what you can without focusing too hard on it and enjoy the ride to said gear. Have fun, blow people up, get blown up, res and lol at that rogue who tried to gank an alt then got quad frostshocked for his trouble :p Enjoy yourself, the gear will come in time and if you don't think actively about it you'll be geared in no time anyways

Also, regarding the "No raids, no pvp, needs more no-schedule entertainment"; try visiting Quel'Danas sometime :p TONS of dailies added with the Sunwell invasion scattered around Sunwell Isle & Outland, something you can do for a couple hours for nice loot, money, and even a Heroic Badge rarely. But besides Raiding and PVP, what's left? Heroics? Farming for yourself? It just seems like you don't like the only things available endgame lol

I was exalted with Shattered Sun Offensive less than week after the patch went live. I would consider myself hardcore when I'm not deployed.

I *do* enjoy arenas. With my deployment schedule, I can't play one of my single toons to a high arena rating because it requires a lot of time to gel with a new team. They expect you to be there for the full ride. With my girls... All I need is a semi-decent healer :)

And to whoever said "There is only 'I won't in life, not I can't'"... You have no idea what you're talking about. Go volunteer for sea duty over work in the sandbox and talk to me about how much free time you get.Excuse me, you are the one complaining about free time, not me. If you wanted you could quit your job, and dont give me that 'go volunteer' its your choice to do so, im not the one complaining that life does go on when being abroad.

No, you're not the one complaining how Blizz's system is farked. You are the one offering snarky, unhelpful comments who also needs to take some comprehension lessons.

You can't just quit the military my friend. Saying "There is only 'I won't, not I can't' in life" to someone in the military is insensitive, uncalled for, and plain wrong.


Pass. Spent 4 years in the USMC. Been there - done that. NO MORE! I'll be a civilian scrub from here on out.

Grats on your freedom Fursphere :) I'm thinking I'd rather finish the 10 I've got left, retire at 38, and THEN go work as civvie scum :D :D :D

[NightFire]

Blaming the military is retarded.... I'm retired from the Army... When I wasn't deployed, I would spend 30 out of 45 days in the field... I still had time to raid to T2 gear (pre-bc). (not to mention spending time with my wife)

Other military members in my guild also have done the same. Over 75% of the officers in the guild are military members, from different branches and are in the top 5 guilds on the server for raid progression.

Blaming the military for your inability is a sham.

It's all about time management.

(Eternium on Shu'Halo is the guild I'm referring to)

[Ughmahedhurtz]

Part of me wishes I did the same thing. But I didn't want to wait till I was 40 to do a lot of things at the same time.

Besides - 4 years in and my knees are in pretty bad shape. 20 years? I probably would have been in a wheelchair shortly afterwards. Running 3+ miles a day on pavement is bad, mmmkay! :PHa! Which is why I went armor instead of infantry. ;) Why walk when you can ride?

[Mosg2]

Blaming the military is retarded.... I'm retired from the Army... When I wasn't deployed, I would spend 30 out of 45 days in the field... I still had time to raid to T2 gear (pre-bc). (not to mention spending time with my wife)

Other military members in my guild also have done the same. Over 75% of the officers in the guild are military members, from different branches and are in the top 5 guilds on the server for raid progression.

Blaming the military for your inability is a sham.

It's all about time management.

(Eternium on Shu'Halo is the guild I'm referring to)

That's great for you. I'm happy that there are military people who can enjoy it. Now let's talk about people who are at what we call the sharp end of the spear:

No, can't really say that I could be in a raiding guild. It's too random when I'm deployed or not deployed.

[Los]

No, you're not the one complaining how Blizz's system is farked. You are the one offering snarky, unhelpful comments who also needs to take some comprehension lessons.

You can't just quit the military my friend. Saying "There is only 'I won't, not I can't' in life" to someone in the military is insensitive, uncalled for, and plain wrong.


Wauw, trained to kill, but somebody telling you to stop whining and change what you are doing if you dont like something, is insensitive. Like more people said, its not farked, its your perspective upon it that is farked, whatever the bleep that may mean. But ill refrain from further comments since your delicateness might take more dents, and I dont want you to burst into tears.

[Basilikos]

Wauw, trained to kill, but somebody telling you to stop whining and change what you are doing if you dont like something, is insensitive. Like more people said, its not farked, its your perspective upon it that is farked, whatever the bleep that may mean. But ill refrain from further comments since your delicateness might take more dents, and I dont want you to burst into tears.

Was that really called for?

[thinus]

Wauw, trained to kill, but somebody telling you to stop whining and change what you are doing if you dont like something, is insensitive. Like more people said, its not farked, its your perspective upon it that is farked, whatever the bleep that may mean. But ill refrain from further comments since your delicateness might take more dents, and I dont want you to burst into tears.

Seriously, get some perspective.

WoW is a *game*, it is entertainment, it is for a lot of us a hobby. It is something we do when we have time off. We do *not* schedule our real lives around WoW, we schedule WoW around our real lives. Raiding requires a long term commitment to a fixed schedule which is not an option for a lot of us. A lot of the top end raiding guilds require 80%+ attendance as well and if you don't show up very regularly your spot gets filled by someone else. The full time raiders will usually get preference over part time raiders. When I was raiding I didn't mind sitting out for part time raiders and we also had a rotation going, but, when you are learning new encounters you want your best geared regular raiders there if you want serious attempts. Bringing part timers with lesser gear that haven't attempted the encounter before does not help your progression.

Also, raids are not really fun for a lot of us. I enjoy the challenge of learning the new encounters. Unfortunately with raids you are depending on the right class balance, gear and 24 other people to know what they are doing. Not enough healing, sorry no raid. Not enough tanks, sorry no raid. Not enough dps, lots of wipes coming up. Raiding also involves lots of waiting and keeping 25 people focused and farming for your repairs and consumables.

And even when you have an encounter on farm you keep doing the encounter over and over and over and over and over to gear people up.

The negatives of raiding just outweighs the positives for me personally.

[Mosg2]

And echoing what Thinus said, in order to get and maintain a high rated (2k+) team you need to have the same level of consistency.

[Los]

Wauw, trained to kill, but somebody telling you to stop whining and change what you are doing if you dont like something, is insensitive. Like more people said, its not farked, its your perspective upon it that is farked, whatever the bleep that may mean. But ill refrain from further comments since your delicateness might take more dents, and I dont want you to burst into tears.

Seriously, get some perspective.

WoW is a *game*, it is entertainment, it is for a lot of us a hobby. It is something we do when we have time off. We do *not* schedule our real lives around WoW, we schedule WoW around our real lives. Raiding requires a long term commitment to a fixed schedule which is not an option for a lot of us. A lot of the top end raiding guilds require 80%+ attendance as well and if you don't show up very regularly your spot gets filled by someone else. The full time raiders will usually get preference over part time raiders. When I was raiding I didn't mind sitting out for part time raiders and we also had a rotation going, but, when you are learning new encounters you want your best geared regular raiders there if you want serious attempts. Bringing part timers with lesser gear that haven't attempted the encounter before does not help your progression.

Also, raids are not really fun for a lot of us. I enjoy the challenge of learning the new encounters. Unfortunately with raids you are depending on the right class balance, gear and 24 other people to know what they are doing. Not enough healing, sorry no raid. Not enough tanks, sorry no raid. Not enough dps, lots of wipes coming up. Raiding also involves lots of waiting and keeping 25 people focused and farming for your repairs and consumables.

And even when you have an encounter on farm you keep doing the encounter over and over and over and over and over to gear people up.

The negatives of raiding just outweighs the positives for me personally.Thinus I was giving that perspective and was trying to explain it more then once now I think, and besides, he can make remarks pointing at me, and I can respond to them.

My point was that if you can't do it because of work, real life, or whatever, WHY should something like for instance, ratings, be removed? The world does not circle around certain persons who are complaining and yelling to throw in a towel.

I know the whole raid drill, been there done that, got myself some tshirts. Your story goes up partially, you would have done fine in guild where you would have expressed to raid, 2 days? 3 days? Or every raid for a few weeks and then some time you couldnt because of work of whatever, the nihilum typed of guilds would probably not take you, but take somebody else who can come 24/7. Thats not harsh or mean or 'a bad game because you need to be a nolifer' no thats all not true, its just the way things are, you CAN NOT have it all, and the world shouldnt be put to a halt because of it.

[Los]

And echoing what Thinus said, in order to get and maintain a high rated (2k+) team you need to have the same level of consistency.No you dont, seasons take about 4 months, time enough to scrounge points.

[mikeb]

Blizzard is trying to fix the game I'm fine with that. I don't really care as a multi-boxer. Besides WotLK is only months away. I would rather multi-box casually then grind like an idiot. Seriously RL and multi-boxing > grinding.

[madvlad]

IMHO,

If you are very skilled, have skilled friends, a great guild etc your climb up the gear ladder will be a swift one. You get there fast, the elevator ride

If you aren't quite as skilled, OR don't have skilled friends, OR aren't in a great guild and can't be in one right now you can grind up the ladder, although a little too easily. So blizz is going to take that ladder away or make it almost impossible for most. You can be really good but if you don't have good friends you are out of luck.

My suggestion would be a combination of these extremes. If you are the first group you get your gear as it is proposed quick and cheap. If you are in the other, you can still work your butt off and get most of the gear to try and compete but make it cost you 2,3 or 4 times the arena points or honor points.

1900 rating here's your helm 1875
1600 rating here's your helm 3200
1400 rating here's your helm 5000

agree it's too easy and cheap to get now, agree people need something to grind for. With PVE grind your tailoring/bs/engineering up for similiar gear to PVE with CD's it takes a long time but you will get there.

"hey look i finally got my new S4 helm", "uhm my new viking horny goat helm has better stats" "when did WotLK come out?"

[Havelcek]

Why do arena-related threads always bring the toolboxes out of the woodwork?

[Eteocles]

Because arenas fail, and beget failure. They spoil people and inflate e-peens that should never exist let alone be inflated. WoW fears Warhammer's pvp for some unknown reason and is humping arenas for all they're worth like a lovesick puppy in puberty

[Jaws5]

I guess I do not get bent on this new requirements. I spent 5 months strait (twice) getting the best gear in the game (rank 14 HWL and GM) since they changed that system for the better, I has lost my desire to have the best. the best changes every 3-6 months. I shoot for the next to best almost as good for a lot less time outlay. Now on to Miltary. Allways join the Air Force , they send their O's into combat. Training is great, assignments , base support , education etc. Why ride can you can fly :P

[Mosg2]

Unfortunately with personal rating, it's not just a matter of how good you are. You need to find anywhere from 1-4 other people who also are at least decently geared and skilled to start with. Then you need to spend the playing together to learn how to play with each other and how exactly your specific comp/spec work. It's not a week-long endeavor where you just grab some random people who're in S3 and then magically you have a 2k rating. Lest we not forget actually scheduling games themselves.


No you dont, seasons take about 4 months, time enough to scrounge points.

That's exactly what we're talking about--Now it doesn't matter how many points you have, it matters how high you can get your personal rating.


My point was that if you can't do it because of work, real life, or whatever, WHY should something like for instance, ratings, be removed? The world does not circle around certain persons who are complaining and yelling to throw in a towel.

WoW has/had one thing over virtually every other MMO out there: You could put your time in and get the exact same thing that anyone else in the game could get. If you played casually, you got it at casual speed. If you played hardcore, you got it at hardcore speed. Now they're taking that away in regards to S4/Honor gear.

And don't talk to me about skill being rewarded--As soon as they removed the attunements for BT tons of people started seeing Illidan. With arenas, skill was rewarded by being the first to each piece plus end of season honors. As I see it, that's the way it should be.

[Slats]

The direction WoW is taking with PvP bores the shit out of me.



Have cancelled all my accounts, pre-ordered Age Of Conan, and have GTA1V on the way. I'll wait for Warhammer or maybe just have a blast in Age Of Conan. Whatever happens right now, the treadmill is so obvious, and the pedastal being raised higher and higher - I have no desire to enjoy the 'time sinks' thrown at us to appease us till WotLK.



Will still the read the forums here - been fun to watch this comnunity grow and see all the cool videos. Peace out.

[Khazrael]

The direction WoW is taking with PvP bores the shit out of me.

I'm surprised people get as worked up about pvp in wow as they do anyways. Really, pvp is tacked on in wow. It was an afterthought. It can be fun sometimes, but it's hardly what the game was designed for.

[Los]

WoW has/had one thing over virtually every other MMO out there: You could put your time in and get the exact same thing that anyone else in the game could get. If you played casually, you got it at casual speed. If you played hardcore, you got it at hardcore speed. Now they're taking that away in regards to S4/Honor gear.

And don't talk to me about skill being rewarded--As soon as they removed the attunements for BT tons of people started seeing Illidan. With arenas, skill was rewarded by being the first to each piece plus end of season honors. As I see it, that's the way it should be.
Im sorry but if your guild didnt get passed scc / tk and for that matter vash and kael, you do not automaticly see illidian, thats a wrong assumption. Besides, sunwell is the new black raidingwise, bt is from the past already. Same as they are doing to pvp gear, s1 will be gone, s2 is the new honor gear, s3 is new semi arena gear and s4 will be the new hip arena gear. It all scoots a point or 2.

[Mosg2]

Im sorry but if your guild didnt get passed scc / tk and for that matter vash and kael, you do not automaticly see illidian, thats a wrong assumption. Besides, sunwell is the new black raidingwise, bt is from the past already. Same as they are doing to pvp gear, s1 will be gone, s2 is the new honor gear, s3 is new semi arena gear and s4 will be the new hip arena gear. It all scoots a point or 2.

You need some comprehension lessons.

1. I'm not in a guild.

2. Since they removed the access quests, TONS of people have jumped straight into BT and gotten right up to Illidan. That's what I said and that's what I meant.

[Los]

Im sorry but if your guild didnt get passed scc / tk and for that matter vash and kael, you do not automaticly see illidian, thats a wrong assumption. Besides, sunwell is the new black raidingwise, bt is from the past already. Same as they are doing to pvp gear, s1 will be gone, s2 is the new honor gear, s3 is new semi arena gear and s4 will be the new hip arena gear. It all scoots a point or 2.

You need some comprehension lessons.

1. I'm not in a guild.

2. Since they removed the access quests, TONS of people have jumped straight into BT and gotten right up to Illidan. That's what I said and that's what I meant.1. Really, that comprehension bit is so pathetic, especially for a nerf caller like yourself.
2. And like I said Im calling it bullshit.

Anyways, I was talking in general, try to keep up. And what you are saying is bull. There is a big gear gap vs end bosses in bt and tk (not to mention tacticwise). There is no way in hell people have made that up by now (since the patch and the release of that attunement stuff) if they couldnt kill kael (best fight ever btw) or vashj.

[Eteocles]

I'm gonna have to agree with the "Everyone's seeing illidan is bullshit" bit...I'm in a guild who FARMS him and I'm not allowed anywhere near him because I don't have the gear to handle it. Most BT fights require a minimum of gear and dps totals and some Hyjal fights are particularly dependant on SMART players paying attention and any guild who's been stuck on SSC/TK too long is not attentive enough overall to do so, period. DA wasn't and I will openly say that because it's the truth;(Most, not all, simply didn't pay attention to the fight around them, just warnings that were often broken instead of thinking on their own) DC is attentive, noone needs to sit around explaining shit for 20mins or doing 5-6 ready checks or random afks, shit goes in, shit goes down, shit gets looted and we're done with 5 bosses in 2hours. And despite their t6+ gear + attentiveness and skill, some of the fights are close shaves.

I personally haven't seen Illidan, nor will I unless they decide to go back and get me a t5 set for the 4piece bonus to make my dps competitive :p Just becuase attunements are gone doesn't mean player stupidity is gone too. Just cuz you can start ssc/tk(Loot Reaver is called that for a reason) doesn't mean you can handle jack shit in the new instances you're allowed into :p

[Gallo]

I call Bullshit on "everyone getting to Illidan" as well... but it IS true that tons of guilds jump right into BT. I think that most of them get slaughtered... but yeah, its "accessible" .

[Los]

Entering bt is heavilly <> for seeing illidan (unless you have seen him in a movie or as a background)!

And its sad to see people not killing kael and getting in to BT, allthough i guess its fine they can, dont see no harm in it, they hit the point of 'cant kill next boss' soon anyways.

[Mosg2]

Go look at the guild recruitment posts on your server forums and/or ads in general. At least on my server now there are three times as many guilds that have downed Illidan--That's not an insignificant amount.

It was laziness and not skill that was keeping people off of BT gear. It's not that hard to learn a scripted, 2-15 minute event.

[Eteocles]

That's raiding in a nutshell really Mos...though most people do call it "lolscripted events" there ARE variables that can fuck it up, and that variable is the players :p I've seen palas accidentally bop/DI the tank when they meant to hit loh, I've seen a near-wipe on Vael at 1% and a Paladin bop'd himself and loh'd himself and HE WON, finishing Vael off just barely in time...so yeah, imo, that "scripted" bull can go fuck itself, there's plenty of variety ;)

Only new recruiter is Genesis on Mag and that's because Nerd Craft transferred over and put them to shame. DA's core/good raiders merged into DC and attend higher raids when allowed but again, some fights simply require geared people, and DA was progressing(keyword there, we WERE making progress on bosses and had gotten Hydross just about down to a farm encounter) through SSC when we joined up to DC; again any guild that was already at BT won't let anyone undergeared come; any guild that wasn't in BT jumps in and gets their ass handed to them because they didn't learn to cooperate on their way up :p

[Tonuss]

re: ratings requirements on S3/S4 gear... you will be able to get a full set of S2 gear without any ratings at all, and it's not all that bad compared to S3/4, considering that the requirements for getting it are so relaxed (lower honor costs, no need to grind if you don't want, etc).

As someone pointed out, pre-BC and the PvP changes, you were at a pretty big disadvantage versus both insanely dedicated PvPers and anyone who raided past Molten Core if you were a casual player. You'd be lucky to get two or three blue PvP pieces and pre-raiding blues didn't compare to epic items from MC and up. S2 and its equivalents are much better for PvP than most PvE items, and give you a chance versus S3/4-geared players.

The reason it gets boring is that the way to get that gear is to run the same battlegrounds we've been running for months or years. New maps would go a long way to helping alleviate that boredom to some degree.

[Gallo]

The reason it gets boring is that the way to get that gear is to run the same battlegrounds we've been running for months or years. New maps would go a long way to helping alleviate that boredom to some degree.

Meh, I disagree here. NEw maps would be great, but it all boils down to gear. Everyone in this game is out to get the better gear. Once you have people sitting at the top of the gear plateau for a long period of time, then they get bored... regardless of the maps. WoLTK will come by and everyone will go questing for.... NEW GEAR! :)