Substitute Mage For Warrior in WMMMP?

[method98]

Hello I'm leveling WMMMP and my goal is to funnel gold and stuff to my main warlock when they're 60. I ran out of sub after reaching 25-26 on the boys and I didn't play alot because it got boring fast.

But I still wanna solo dungeons for infinite gold so I was thinking that maybe if i replace the warrior with another mage and go MMMMP my leveling process would be easier and faster? Is this true?

I've changed the title of this thread to reflect its actual subject matter.
-MiRai

[Vivan]

This is sort of the situation that I am in too.

WMMMP is very slow to start and can feel kind of bad as your warrior will for the most part not be doing much in the early levels. MMMMP is much faster as you do 33% more dps and can burn down packs faster.

Later on (50+), having that warrior pays off. There are loads of threads in this forum about people regretting going MMMMP because of the struggle with bosses and cleave mobs in the lategame. This isn't to say MMMMP doesn't work all the way through to 60, but it is harder.

[Madsage]

Yea once you get to 50+ dungeons you are not going to pull more than 2 small packs with just mages and it will always be risky, trash mobs up to scarlet monastery hit for nothing, once you get to ZF having a warrior starts to pay off.

Keep in mind that mages use a lot of mana for aoe’ing and you will be drinking constantly, so if you can bandage+ loot the mobs while other chars are drinking you will save a lot of time and greatly improve your exp/h

[nodoze]

I think the MMMMP groups focus on fast XP to 60 & mostly avoid bosses to get to 60. Once they get to 60 and start getting better geared they can take on more and more bosses.

It seems to me that MMMMP is likely the fastest team to level to cap if you take the above approach and avoid bosses.

The above being said I think a team with a Tank is the most flexible/viable overall and safest for most folk.

Edit: Note that while dropping from 4 mages to 3 mages is 25% less Mage damage that doesn't mean 25% less team damage. At cap a properly geared reflective & consecrating Paladin Tank typically does most of it's threat via damage and while it isn't the same damage as a mage it certainly isn't zero.

[Vivan]

I think the MMMMP groups focus on fast XP to 60 & mostly avoid bosses to get to 60. Once they get to 60 and start getting better geared they can take on more and more bosses.

It seems to me that MMMMP is likely the fastest team to level to cap if you take the above approach and avoid bosses.

The above being said I think a team with a Tank is the most flexible/viable overall and safest for most folk.

How do you think LLLLP compares for levelling speed, faster than WMMMP but slower than MMMMP?

[nodoze]

How do you think LLLLP compares for levelling speed, faster than WMMMP but slower than MMMMP?I don't think anything is faster than MMMMP except maybe MMMMM if you severely limit your content (just pull & AoE trash) and even then MMMMP may win when you factor in spirit walking instead of rezzing (not sure).

MMMMP (or MMMHealer+Tank) get it's first AoE via AE really early (level 14) and it is an instant spell.

LLLLP (or LLLHealer+Tank) get it's first AoE via Rain of Fire at 20 and it is a channeled spell (and isn't the best in damage). Lock AoE doesn't get serious until level 30 with HellFire but even then it is still channeled and does damage to the Locks so you can have issues with push-back and need AoE healing...

With the above in mind I think most LLLLP groups were/are DoT focused until 30 and I suspect both MMMMP and WMMMP teams can beat or at least equal them in speed with AoE.

Personally I am taking a different approach as I focusing on leveling my Paladin Main to cap with friends (in my 50s now) and have a MLLLP team waiting for him in their 20s. Once my Paladin is 60 I plan to get him AoE grinding gear/consumables and spec him something like 30/21/0 and then use him to Power Level my MLLLP alts (rotating them out). When I get them all to cap my regular dungeon team will likely be:

Paladin Tank+3 Locks+3 Pets+Priest

Swap-wise my brother's Paladin may come in to Tank and I can then heal on my Paladin (or the Priest). I plan to have at least 1 Imp with improved Blood Pact and improved Fire Shield and that leaves me 2 off-Tank VoidWalker options if I ever need/want them (though I may end up with 3 imps most/all of the time).

Overall I like the above composition as everyone can be very tanky yet still have strong AoE for the group and hopefully just face-tank through most grinding. It may be slower to cap but my experiences at cap is more what I am focused on.

The Mage is on my 6th account and likely will mainly be used to port my team and give me free water/food. I may also use him to test some AoE techniques and power leveling options as most of my AoE experience to date is Paladin AoE farming in Vanilla -> WoTLK and I like to be able to contrast/compare.

[Madsage]

WMMMP is faster than MMMMP once you hit BRD, mages just melt there and kiting gets hard when mobs net you, but before that MMMMP is by far the fastest comp

[Mercbeast]

Peregrine blew through BRD, MMMMP.

He just blew up 1 or 2 packs at a time. I'd guess he did it faster than a WMMMP team will do it while leveling up.

[Madsage]

I copied his tactic and destroyed mobs in Zul Farak, pulling 3 packs was no problem with arcane power, and I also tried Shatter Blast Wave build which was also insane, Blast Wave dealt 40-45% of my total damage but in BRD mobs get a huge damage boost, this is where a proper tank allows you to pull 3 packs and loot stuff while casters are drinking, making for faster leveling.

[Yukzor]

I copied his tactic and destroyed mobs in Zul Farak, pulling 3 packs was no problem with arcane power, and I also tried Shatter Blast Wave build which was also insane, Blast Wave dealt 40-45% of my total damage but in BRD mobs get a huge damage boost, this is where a proper tank allows you to pull 3 packs and loot stuff while casters are drinking, making for faster leveling.

So youd also say shatter build is better for aoe than arcane build?

[Proxxee]

Hello I'm leveling WMMMP and my goal is to funnel gold and stuff to my main warlock when they're 60. I ran out of sub after reaching 25-26 on the boys and I didn't play alot because it got boring fast.

But I still wanna solo dungeons for infinite gold so I was thinking that maybe if i replace the warrior with another mage and go MMMMP my leveling process would be easier and faster? Is this true?

Curious about this as well. I'm currently deep fire on my 3 60 Mages, which is likely not the optimal spec. I switched to it in SM and made it to 60, but now at max level my damage doesn't seem as good as it could be. Have been doing okay in DM East but I'm thinking of switching to either the Shatter + Blastwave build or maybe just trying Arcane Power/Frost? Respecs are spendy so I'd like to make the right decision and hear what's working for others!

[Madsage]

I think that arcane/shatter is the best build and Blast Wave shatter is the easiest build because you do not need to pull huge packs to make it efficient, as long as you nuke 2 packs, drink and pull another 2 every 45 seconds you are good to go, and this works well in open world if you like questing.

If you keep dying switch over to Blast Wave because elite mobs literally die in seconds

[Vivan]

I'm still not sure about whether to swap out my warrior or not. So far (level 32) he doesn't do very much.

My worry about skipping bosses is that most of the good gear drops from bosses, so the team would be behind on gear - is that a fair assessment?

[Shlink]

Having leveled MMMMP and WWWWP I'm heavily considering WMMMP as my next team.

4 mages was a lot faster overall with a lot more down time. 4 warriors was pretty slow but very steady until around 36 when it speeds up and gets really fun hacking slashing and spinning through packs.

With 4 mages the biggest limitation was how much I could pull before taking too much damage. I'd generally gather 6-10 mobs, AE, drink. I could have handled and healed through much larger packs if I was able to pull them all at the same time.

That's why I'm considering adding a warrior for the next round. My hopes are that the DPS I lose from 1 mage can be made up for by pulling larger packs with the warrior. But I am not an experienced tank, and am concerned that the warrior may not be able to tank well enough for what I want to do, especially in the 20-35 range before he has much gear.
I'm worried while gathering up large packs (of 10+ greens) he will be too squishy and require too much healing resulting in the priest pulling agro.
I'm curious if anyone has experience with this at the lower levels.
It's my understanding that Demo Shout is probably the best thing to spam to hold AoE agro once you're tanking 5+ mobs. I'd like to really push the limits on how much I can pull.


Disclaimer: I'm not as interested in endgame content/make up, and I enjoy the leveling process through dungeon grinding

[Vivan]

Having leveled MMMMP and WWWWP I'm heavily considering WMMMP as my next team.

4 mages was a lot faster overall with a lot more down time. 4 warriors was pretty slow but very steady until around 36 when it speeds up and gets really fun hacking slashing and spinning through packs.

With 4 mages the biggest limitation was how much I could pull before taking too much damage. I'd generally gather 6-10 mobs, AE, drink. I could have handled and healed through much larger packs if I was able to pull them all at the same time.

That's why I'm considering adding a warrior for the next round. My hopes are that the DPS I lose from 1 mage can be made up for by pulling larger packs with the warrior. But I am not an experienced tank, and am concerned that the warrior may not be able to tank well enough for what I want to do, especially in the 20-35 range before he has much gear.
I'm worried while gathering up large packs (of 10+ greens) he will be too squishy and require too much healing resulting in the priest pulling agro.
I'm curious if anyone has experience with this at the lower levels.
It's my understanding that Demo Shout is probably the best thing to spam to hold AoE agro once you're tanking 5+ mobs. I'd like to really push the limits on how much I can pull.


Disclaimer: I'm not as interested in endgame content/make up, and I enjoy the leveling process through dungeon grinding

At lower levels the warrior will not hold aggro at all, due to the huge threat from the AOE. My tank is basically just a puller and maybe holds aggro on one mob.

This changes later on when your pulls get smaller though.