Is blizzard not feasible as AOE boxer vs AE?

[Yukzor]

I keep seeing everybody using AE, is blizzars with nova and shatter and AE at rhe end not feasible as a dual boxer or AE is just superior?

[Homer]

I keep seeing everybody using AE, is blizzars with nova and shatter and AE at rhe end not feasible as a dual boxer or AE is just superior?

AE is just far more DPS, Blizzard is easily doable.

[nodoze]

I keep seeing everybody using AE, is blizzars with nova and shatter and AE at rhe end not feasible as a dual boxer or AE is just superior?I am pretty sure Apathiest discussed this in another thread. I think in his case he had his healer kiting mobs though his Mages' Blizzard with no one taking any damage. I think he had his Mages walk backward away from the mobs to reduce leeway and keep avoiding damage.

Alternatively Blizzard made sense for single Mage players like Jokerd (who was the first level 60 in Classic) and he just froze/blizzard groups of mobs solo and kept running/blinking ahead of them. I think that is harder to do as a boxer though.

I think rather than mess with moving/kiting people are just briefly face-tanking while AEing groups of mobs that they can burst down and move on quickly...

[z0k]

I've played around with it a little bit...still early (31 now). I'm running WMMMP. I took my mages frost through shatter and am now working on going through arcane. Once I get the 13 points in arcane (might go a little deeper) I'm planning on returning to frost. I think I'd probably put 1 point into the imp blizzard talent and play with it more. Blizzard is the efficient option, but also requires better execution/movement. If you're boxing multiple mages and/or not running a tank it's not a worthwhile trade off.

I personally like the route I've taken. I like frost a lot even though I may be sacrificing in some AoE potency below is how I approach AoE and it's been fairly successful.

I usually use my warrior to group up mobs, have my priest throw a heal or two, then once everything is in position, Frost Nova -> Cone of Cold -> AE spam til dead. Cone of Cold will typically be about 15-20% of the overall damage so it's absolutely worth using, AE will benefit from shatter, shatter will proc off of frost shield, and my tank doesn't really stand a shot in holding aggro on a large pack. I'll typically find the strongest/most alive mob and taunt/sunder it once I start my AoE rotation. I have two binds for AE, one where the priest novas, another where the priest doesn't. This ensures I can toss some heals as necessary without interrupting DPS.

[nodoze]

I've played around with it a little bit...still early (31 now). I'm running WMMMP. I took my mages frost through shatter and am now working on going through arcane. Once I get the 13 points in arcane (might go a little deeper) I'm planning on returning to frost. I think I'd probably put 1 point into the imp blizzard talent and play with it more. Blizzard is the efficient option, but also requires better execution/movement. If you're boxing multiple mages and/or not running a tank it's not a worthwhile trade off.

I personally like the route I've taken. I like frost a lot even though I may be sacrificing in some AoE potency below is how I approach AoE and it's been fairly successful.

I usually use my warrior to group up mobs, have my priest throw a heal or two, then once everything is in position, Frost Nova -> Cone of Cold -> AE spam til dead. Cone of Cold will typically be about 15-20% of the overall damage so it's absolutely worth using, AE will benefit from shatter, shatter will proc off of frost shield, and my tank doesn't really stand a shot in holding aggro on a large pack. I'll typically find the strongest/most alive mob and taunt/sunder it once I start my AoE rotation. I have two binds for AE, one where the priest novas, another where the priest doesn't. This ensures I can toss some heals as necessary without interrupting DPS.Thanks for sharing and please report back any updates on your findings as you progress.

Is your Warrior that is losing Aggro using all/most of his Rage on Shouts? I remember at least one AoE person saying that, even after the nerf, that Warriors can still hold aggro (just need to shout more). If you are having issues maybe try delay the start of your AoE a little longer letting the Warrior shout a few more times and also make sure he is shouting while you AoE.

I like your idea on the dual buttons for AoE with Nova and AoE without Nova. I likely will try that on my Locks as I test out AoE with Rain of Fire on @Player (or maybe @Cursor though that seems more complicated with setview and what not).

[z0k]

Thanks for sharing and please report back any updates on your findings as you progress.

I like your idea on the dual buttons for AoE with Nova and AoE without Nova. I likely will try that on my Locks as I test out AoE with Rain of Fire on @Player (or maybe @Cursor though that seems more complicated with setview and what not).

I do the same thing with frostbolt and a castsequence macro on my priest for single target dps. It's a good move not to mention Holy Nova guzzles through mana, even worse than AE. I'm also stacking spirit over int on the priest so the mana pool isn't as large to begin with. I'll be sure to update you. I imagine in the mid 40s it will be interesting and certainly by BRD I will know just how far I can take this build.

[nodoze]

I do the same thing with frostbolt and a castsequence macro on my priest for single target dps. It's a good move not to mention Holy Nova guzzles through mana, even worse than AE. I'm also stacking spirit over int on the priest so the mana pool isn't as large to begin with. I'll be sure to update you. I imagine in the mid 40s it will be interesting and certainly by BRD I will know just how far I can take this build.OK great. Note that I edited my previous post with some follow-up thoughts while/after you quoted it. Regarding your Warrior:

Is your Warrior that is losing Aggro using all/most of his Rage on Shouts? I remember at least one AoE person saying that, even after the nerf, that Warriors can still hold aggro (just need to shout more). If you are having issues maybe try delay the start of your AoE a little longer letting the Warrior shout a few more times and also make sure he is shouting while you AoE.

[Yukzor]

OK great. Note that I edited my previous post with some follow-up thoughts while/after you quoted it. Regarding your Warrior:

Is your Warrior that is losing Aggro using all/most of his Rage on Shouts? I remember at least one AoE person saying that, even after the nerf, that Warriors can still hold aggro (just need to shout more). If you are having issues maybe try delay the start of your AoE a little longer letting the Warrior shout a few more times and also make sure he is shouting while you AoE.


Wait does shatter only proc when mobs are frosen ala nova oe or procs also when mobs look blue from frost shield but not frozen?

I typically go nova..flame aoe..ae ae ae ..nova ae ae ae for crits...i didnt like cone of cold but migjt give it another shot.

[z0k]

@Yukzor Frost Armor/Ice Armor procs Frostbite, Frostbite targets benefit from Shatter. The hardest part is having your characters all lined up/facing the correct way. I typically will have them follow, use the V formation once I'm ready to drop the kids off so to speak, then move all the mobs to directly in front of the group. I try to get the Frost Nova off where the mobs are out of melee of the mages and still in AoE range, then I get my warrior out of the way as well since he will be low HP by this point.

@nodoze I'm primarily shouting for aggro yeah. I could try to hold onto aggro for longer but tbh the mages just don't die that much and I'm sure I'd lose some dps from less frost bite. I usually don't lose aggro until the mobs are about 40-50%. The huge burst from CoC is high.

[nodoze]

@Yukzor Frost Armor/Ice Armor procs Frostbite, Frostbite targets benefit from Shatter. The hardest part is having your characters all lined up/facing the correct way. I typically will have them follow, use the V formation once I'm ready to drop the kids off so to speak, then move all the mobs to directly in front of the group. I try to get the Frost Nova off where the mobs are out of melee of the mages and still in AoE range, then I get my warrior out of the way as well since he will be low HP by this point.

@nodoze I'm primarily shouting for aggro yeah. I could try to hold onto aggro for longer but tbh the mages just don't die that much and I'm sure I'd lose some dps from less frost bite. I usually don't lose aggro until the mobs are about 40-50%. The huge burst from CoC is high.OK great. That sounds smart to get into a rhythm like that where at the appropriate point you pull them toward the Mages as that will keep them from doing damage while they try to get to the mages and help spread out the damage and what not when they do (and then die before killing anyone).

[Ughmahedhurtz]

I keep seeing everybody using AE, is blizzars with nova and shatter and AE at rhe end not feasible as a dual boxer or AE is just superior?
IMO, the biggest pain in the ass about Blizzard is making sure your mages are all:

* facing the same direction
* same camera angle and zoom level
* ready for mouse-cursor input (yes, it can get stuck occasionally)

And being able to repeat those quickly after you have to move your mages due to aggro, knockback, fear-bomb, or whatever. First cast is easy. Follow-up is more tricky. Some people do it for sure but Flamestrike -> AE spam seems much less error-prone. (caveat: I haven't rerolled my mages since early BC, so my opinion isn't current with Classic per se, not that I've seen anything new lately mind you.)

[Grundel]

Blizzard is more mana efficient imo. However its slower. So then it's a threat battle which I have trouble winning.
During my second cast with blizzard some of the group will switch agro to a mage. So now I'm balancing healing with incoming damage. With AE I can kill stuff faster even though it's not as mana efficient. When the mobs switch to mages I dont care because they will dead so fast. Then everyone sits and drinks while I gather next pull

[nodoze]

IMO, the biggest pain in the ass about Blizzard is making sure your mages are all:

* facing the same direction
* same camera angle and zoom level
* ready for mouse-cursor input (yes, it can get stuck occasionally)

And being able to repeat those quickly after you have to move your mages due to aggro, knockback, fear-bomb, or whatever. First cast is easy. Follow-up is more tricky. Some people do it for sure but Flamestrike -> AE spam seems much less error-prone. (caveat: I haven't rerolled my mages since early BC, so my opinion isn't current with Classic per se, not that I've seen anything new lately mind you.)If you cast it @Player would that help ?

[Proxxee]

I've been considering going back frost myself and seeing how the shatter spec compares to my deep Fire build. I've been Fire since the low 30's or so and basically just stack my team, cast flamestrike @player, blastwave, and spam flamestrike with an AE at the end to finish off the last bit of hp.

The spec seems to do fairly well and its nice getting a few stuns with the fire build. I do wonder if I could move faster though. Only averaging about 30k xp/hr right now at level 57 in BRD.

[Myth]

I am currently running Magex4+Priest. Fire/Arcane for Pyro for bosses and AE for everything else. I tried a few different specs and mainly do dungeons now once they are the same level or a couple lower than my group of 5.

I wanted Blizzard AOE to work since it is a lot of fun doing solo but I tried using set view scripts and a few different ground target AoE method's that Mirai did a great job of showing. However, in the end the effort was not worth it as 4xMage Arcane Explosion kills just about anything but a boss faster and with much less effort than Blizzard spam. You just have to limit pulls to 4-5 vs. 5+.

Sure the pulls are not as epic but the risk of dying is less but the pace is just as fast. You will have to drink after every 1-3 pulls using AE. But hey... thats why we have mage water/food. ;)

[Lyonheart]

I never find that having to drink after every pull or two to be a big deal.. as i loot everything..by the time im done looting, everyone's mana is topped off

[Homer]

I never find that having to drink after every pull or two to be a big deal.. as i loot everything..by the time im done looting, everyone's mana is topped off

I find my priest lacking in the mana regen department between pulls, at 37 now, sometimes I need a full drink and then some, WTB level 40 for the 35 water.

[Yukzor]

I find my priest lacking in the mana regen department between pulls, at 37 now, sometimes I need a full drink and then some, WTB level 40 for the 35 water.
So right now im specced frost at level 34 with shatter. My gameplan has been nova...flamestrike ae ae..nov ae ae ae ae and everything dies due to 50% crits on flamwstroke andae.....is there anyway to be even more efficient or a better pec? I find that frost shatter gives way better crits than arcane talents....but maybe i missed something and there is a better spec?

[Ughmahedhurtz]

If you cast it @Player would that help ?
If you have something else keeping aggro, and the mobs aren't casting AoE spells/cleaves. @player implies you're in melee range of the mobs. I never had much luck with Blizzard in melee range.

[Mercbeast]

Blizzard is more mana efficient imo. However its slower. So then it's a threat battle which I have trouble winning.
During my second cast with blizzard some of the group will switch agro to a mage. So now I'm balancing healing with incoming damage. With AE I can kill stuff faster even though it's not as mana efficient. When the mobs switch to mages I dont care because they will dead so fast. Then everyone sits and drinks while I gather next pull

Mana efficiency isn't all that important with 3 or 4 mages.

[myrsnipe]

In school and strath, every normal pack goes down to AE spam with 3 mages in one mana bar, with 4 it must be a breeze, but I would hate to deal with some of the bosses like rattlegore without a tank

[Ughmahedhurtz]

Mana efficiency isn't all that important with 3 or 4 mages.
Isn't that entirely dependent on the instance level (re: spell hit mechanics) and mob resistances, though?

[Mercbeast]

Sure, but, most people grinding a caster group are going to avoid fighting orange/red con mobs in dungeons. That isn't efficient regardless of spell :)

[Spyro]

I saw a guy from my server (Golemagg EU) running 1 Priest + 4 Mages level from 42 to 52 in 2 days in Zul'Farrak (just saw him one thay and 2 days after he had put +10 levels, insane lol). He clearly farmed huge Zul'Farrak pulls with Blizzard. I wonder if he posts here, one of his mages is called "Nimkas".

I run Warrior/Priest/3 Mages and I used Blizzard a lot in Shadowfang Keep and Razorfen Kraul for the mobs that AoE silence, using a SetView() macro in my Blizzard bind to move all the cameras to the same direction.

I'm in Zul'Farrak now but I can't spend the gold to respec the mages for Blizzard (I'm saving for the mounts so I have to play with the typical Arcane Explosion), otherwise I would run the Blizzard build and farm HUGE xp by pulling big pulls with mount and then AoE them down from distance, I'm sure that's what "Nimkas" did to level so insanely fast.

[Spyro]

* ready for mouse-cursor input (yes, it can get stuck occasionally)
That happens when you mouseover on a Repeater Region when positioning the casting circle, happened to me a bunch of times before I realized what the fuck was really happening, lol.

[Ughmahedhurtz]

[edit] nevermind. Not a 5-boxer.