LMMMP team

[Lewsifur]

Ive scrolled a bit and seen a few wmmmp and mmmmp teams, just wondering if anyones done a lmmmp team?

Ive gone staggnant with my teams a d looking ti shuffle due to time. So mmmmp or lmmmp before my break and the forthcoming grind.

My prev teams were wwwws and mlmmp.

Just after a simple keybind and run.

Thanks in advance.

[nodoze]

Ive scrolled a bit and seen a few wmmmp and mmmmp teams, just wondering if anyones done a lmmmp team?

Ive gone staggnant with my teams a d looking ti shuffle due to time. So mmmmp or lmmmp before my break and the forthcoming grind.

My prev teams were wwwws and mlmmp.

Just after a simple keybind and run.

Thanks in advance.It sounds like you previously ran mlmmp (in addition to wwwws) which seems the same as lmmmp.

What is the difference between lmmmp and mlmmp?

Sorry I am a little confused.

[Lewsifur]

Sorry, ipad typo.

It was a WLMMP.

Im going to drop the warrior in favour of a mage. Im trapped wondering if I should replace the lock with a mage too.

The lock has the utility, and Im hoping it can stand in for the warrior, with less gearing and button issues.

The added dps from the new mage Im hoping, will allow the lock to take a few hits before the aoe priedt and mage tesr them down. Once at the the lock receives hellfire snd taunt shouldnt be too much of an issue and it can contribute to aoe burns.

[nodoze]

Sorry, ipad typo.

It was a WLMMP.

Im going to drop the warrior in favour of a mage. Im trapped wondering if I should replace the lock with a mage too.

The lock has the utility, and Im hoping it can stand in for the warrior, with less gearing and button issues.

The added dps from the new mage Im hoping, will allow the lock to take a few hits before the aoe priedt and mage tesr them down. Once at the the lock receives hellfire snd taunt shouldnt be too much of an issue and it can contribute to aoe burns.Ah OK.

What level is your team?

Warlocks can get pretty tanky when they get Master Demonologist & then SoulLink as early as 40 though I don't know how much of that is based off of gear that is only available closer to cap.

[Lewsifur]

Pretty young still. Lock is 14 and Im abou to try out RFC. I can Im trying to find out if a mage can be on par with a mage for aoe, and tske the hits for gathering mobs. Didnt think of the demo tree =) for later on. Nice points.

[nodoze]

Pretty young still. Lock is 14 and Im abou to try out RFC. I can Im trying to find out if a mage can be on par with a mage for aoe, and tske the hits for gathering mobs. Didnt think of the demo tree =) for later on. Nice points.I am actually in the same boat as you except, instead of LMMMP, I am currently working with MLLLP (though eventually I plan on going PaladinTank+LLL+P for grinding at cap)...

In my case I am hoping I can get an easy AoE face tanking setup where I just gather on the Paladin Tank doing high Threat AoE DPS (Consecration and reflection damage) and then boost AoE DPS from 3 tanky Warlocks (each with upto -50% threat) and AoE Heal/DPS from the Priest (with no Threat). My hope is that I can end up with a very survivable AoE team with very controlled Threat that still puts out solid AoE DPS with no twitch healing required and just face tank AoE large packs of mobs. It will take many, many, more levels to kick in however compared to a Mage team which gets AE so early (but are more squishy).

What level must a Warlock get to before they can be tanky?...

At level 20 your Warlock gets Rain of Fire and at 30 the Warlock gets HellFire but their suvivablity isn't heavily beefed up till later. Warlocks do get some extra stamina early on but their real tanky talents can't be taken until levels 35-40 (those last 6 points all increase the survivability via the Demonology tree).

OK, so maybe Warlocks can be semi-Tanky at level 40 but can they Tank at level 40?

While you can be semi-tanky at level 40 that means you had to put all your points into Demonolgy and thus you don't have any pushback resistances so your AoE DPS goes down the more mobs you have on you and you can't AoE tank if you aren't doing AoE damage DPS for threat... That shouldn't be a problem for my team with the Paladin tanking but it may make it hard for a Warlock to effectively tank for Mages until a higher level... It isn't until level 57+ that Warlocks can be both semi tanky and have a base 70% Pushback resistance (which a Paladin can take to 100%+ via Concentration Aura)... Also the best Tanky Warlock gear is at level 60...

I say all this so you can temper your expectations at the lower levels... There was a video of a Warlock tanking awhile back and it may be doable for a team of Mages but it likely won't be till at the higher levels... In that kind of setup you may actually want a Paladin instead of a Priest as the Paladin can heal the Warlock with less threat, give the Warlock more AoE threat via Retribution Aura initially, and then boost Warlock Theat via eliminating knock-back by switching to Concentration Aura and do this all while giving the Mages -30% threat... Warlocks still can't shout like Warriors or Paladins (via GBoK) but their VoidWalker (https://classic.wowhead.com/skill=204/pet-voidwalker) can do single target Taunts every 5 seconds via Torment and can do an AoE Taunt every 2 minutes via Suffering.

[Lewsifur]

Great info, made me re-think a few things which good. Hearing Paladin makes me miss legion :p.

I think Ill treat the lock as a low dps pet and have the imp out for the stam and fs.

My thinking is, with the priest buff, I might get away by using a frost mage as the punch bag and hopefully, treat the team as aoe mage team, with hellfire at 30.

Then at nameds, pull out the vood pet, and with enough talents in destruction?, trest the lock like a mage and dot, then nuke down the named before the voidwalker dies.

From memory of some posts, some named avoid so the lock could face tank with drain life and dots, and outheal with the help of the priest.

Awesome feedback on the tanky stuff, I will test with my chars back against a wall. :)

[Nyth]

Interested in the feedback as well, as I currently have a WLMMP and thinking leveling a full caster team.

Wondering as well if the lock with its added benefits is better that having 4 mages. But not necessarily going soul link as you lose quite a lot of dps in the process.

I understand that some have succeeded in taking down all bosses until ubrs with 4 mages (confirmed by Peregrine in another post) so I guess a Void Walker even not fully buffed could do the trick...

[nodoze]

Interested in the feedback as well, as I currently have a WLMMP and thinking leveling a full caster team.

Wondering as well if the lock with its added benefits is better that having 4 mages. But not necessarily going soul link as you lose quite a lot of dps in the process.

I understand that some have succeeded in taking down all bosses until ubrs with 4 mages (confirmed by Peregrine in another post) so I guess a Void Walker even not fully buffed could do the trick...In one previous thread someone was touting great success with Voidwalker tanking but I am not sure if they had a Paladin in the party or not. Not sure if it is required but that -30% aggro should help alot.

[Madsage]

Voidwalker can hold aggro when you have warlocks slowly dealing damage with dots, but with mages forget about it, you can use voidwalker to pull mobs and Torment to hold aggro for 2 arcane explosions.

[Lewsifur]

Understood, can a lock hold their own with mages on a burn down with shadowbolts. Perhaps dropping the voidwalker for imp?

[Apatheist]

In dungeons warlock damage should be equal to mage DPS on single targets. On AE fights it depends on the circumstances. Arcane explosion vs hellfire is about equal. If you weave in flamestrike and cone of cold effectively, mages will outperform warlocks on multiple targets while being less prone to interrupts.

However, don't forget the fact that the warlock can actually be used as a tank at 40+. Doesn't work particularly well for AE pulls because of hellfire being interrupted but SL warlocks are more than capable of tanking any dungeon boss. You can reach around 75%+ physical damage reduction on a warlock between armor, cheap consumables and talents.

[nodoze]

In dungeons warlock damage should be equal to mage DPS on single targets. On AE fights it depends on the circumstances. Arcane explosion vs hellfire is about equal. If you weave in flamestrike and cone of cold effectively, mages will outperform warlocks on multiple targets while being less prone to interrupts.

However, don't forget the fact that the warlock can actually be used as a tank at 40+. Doesn't work particularly well for AE pulls because of hellfire being interrupted but SL warlocks are more than capable of tanking any dungeon boss. You can reach around 75%+ physical damage reduction on a warlock between armor, cheap consumables and talents.Good points. If you have a Paladin healer you can give between 35%->50% Pushback resistance to a level 40+ Warlock until they can start moving toward 100% pushback resistance around level 57+. Generally I would recommend a Priest if you running multiple Warlocks but a Paladin Healer may be more helpful in a Warlock+3Mage+Healer team if you want to use the Warlock for tanking...

[Apatheist]

2xPaladin, 3xWarlock would be a pretty solid PvE team if you already have level 60 mages to supply water for the paladins. It wouldn't really matter which character was being hit, they're all super tanky. The real problem with hellfire isn't pushback though, it's being stunned/interrupted. Just about every mob pack in 50+ dungeons has some kind of active interrupt skill. It's pretty obnoxious.

Something else to note is a bunch of damage debuffs stack. With stoneskin totem, demo shout and curse of weakness the mobs in SM:Cath hit for like 10 damage.

[nodoze]

2xPaladin, 3xWarlock would be a pretty solid PvE team if you already have level 60 mages to supply water for the paladins. It wouldn't really matter which character was being hit, they're all super tanky. The real problem with hellfire isn't pushback though, it's being stunned/interrupted. Just about every mob pack in 50+ dungeons has some kind of active interrupt skill. It's pretty obnoxious.

Something else to note is a bunch of damage debuffs stack. With stoneskin totem, demo shout and curse of weakness the mobs in SM:Cath hit for like 10 damage.
Not sure if there's a "right" answer but I prefer to stack as much stamina as possible so I can lifetap liberally.

Shadow/spell damage increase lifetap damage and mana return so as you level and get more damage items, your mana pool becomes less relevant. It's mostly from 20-40 that you have to choose between either damage or base stats. After 40 there are quite a few nice pieces that will have stamina and either spell damage or shadow damage.

Something else to keep in mind is that when you have enough shadow damage the increase to your DoT's is significant since they receive 100% of your bonus damage over their duration. Spreading DoT's for cleave may even be more DPS than hellfire on an average high level pull of 3-5 mobs like the ogre packs in DM.OK thanks for the guidance! I was definitely stacking lots of dots on Elites in DM and I will definitely try mixing in DoTs with AoE to see what balance fits for the various fights.

Not having to care too much which characters get hit is what I am going for as I want an AoE grinding team that doesn't require either twitch healing nor ping-ponging boss aggro (nor twitch iceblocking to survive). My goal is to have the Paladin Tank and ideally take as many of the debuffs/interrupts that he can while pushing AoEing Threat and let the others AoE DPS with him. Hopefully that will mean the others aren't getting hit much but not having to care is great regardless and if things are going as planned they can use that stamina for Hellfire/life-tap/etc.

I do want to try to heal as much as possible from the lead Tank Paladin just to see how viable that is (in part practicing for solo power leveling low level alts and for PVP) so if he is getting lots of interrupts even with Flashes of Light I may get a 'Hand of Edward the Odd (https://classic.wowhead.com/item=2243/hand-of-edward-the-odd)' to try for periodic instant heals (I wanted one for PVP anyway).

[Nyth]

Just to follow up on this, would you say that the demo without Ruin would still be more dps than a prot war ? If so, what build would you recommend for a soul link demo, keeping the ability to aoe with it.

Here is a try I made, to maximize stam from soul link (i.e. buffing up the void walker), while keeping the 70% interrupt reduction and fire damage to keep up on aoe.

https://classicdb.ch/?talent#IZbxuzgxotZex0xb

[nodoze]

Just to follow up on this, would you say that the demo without Ruin would still be more dps than a prot war ? If so, what build would you recommend for a soul link demo, keeping the ability to aoe with it.

Here is a try I made, to maximize stam from soul link (i.e. buffing up the void walker), while keeping the 70% interrupt reduction and fire damage to keep up on aoe.

https://classicdb.ch/?talent#IZbxuzgxotZex0xbThat is similar to what I am planning though mana isn't a big worry for me at this point so I would put the 3 points in Cataclysm somewhere else like Destructive Reach and Aftermath. Personally I plan to focus on AoE with my tanky Warlocks so I am not sure how much I would get out of Bane (maybe good for bosses so maybe leave it in). If Destructive Reach also increases the radius of AoEs I would definitely want to include it (not sure if it does or not) and if it doesn't then maybe/maybe not (likely still yes)...

Currently I am not at this point yet but my initial thoughts were something more like:

https://classicdb.ch/?talent#IZbxuzgxotZxt0xr

If Bane ends up not being that important for my AoE farming then maybe I would move those 5 points to max Aftermath and take Shadow Burn. Sorry I haven't gotten to the point of actual testing yet...