Currently WMMLP: considering W vs Pal & L vs 3rd M

[Nyth]

Hey guys,

So I've leveled up a bit, currently the 2 mages & the lock are 23, War & Priest are 29 (a bit of 2box leveling explaining the difference).

Two main questions (and a side one) :

War vs Pally : War is quite heavy on skills and I find myself focusing a lot on him when tanking. Also, aggro is a pb sometimes, spamming demo shot seems weak, and cherry picking each mob with taunt can become tedious.

On ease of use + keeping aggro (+ helping dps), how does Pal do in 5box vs war? The ability to 2nd heal seems nice too.

=> Edit : or maybe bear druid (why not) ?

Lock vs Mage : I'm wondering the switch again for the ease of having 3 times the same class (mage). Lock does bring tele, but I have hardly used it so far. He also seems below the mages in terms of dps output. I know that he can bring some aoe past 30 but mages are good on their own.

Bottom line, what do you think of the switch for my tank & 1 dps. Leveling up to 23 would not be too painful while 2boxing Pal+mage, so if good arguments that could make me reconsider my setup

Side question : If i use my lvl 29 priest with the others being 23, in the stockade for ex, will I be penalized in terms of xp?

Thanks for your inputs
Nyth

[Purpleflavor]

You're already half way there on your war, stick with him they are the best tank class by far. To fix your issues with aggro try a different rotation. When you pull, open with enrage and battle shout. Battle shout is more threat than demo shout. After battle shout then demo shout. from there you can be situational. Either spam battle shout for more aoe threat, or use single target abilities like revenge, shield block/slam, and heroic strike for damage + single target threat.

Battle shout produces 55 threat to all aggroed mobs per player buffed and caps at 5 players.
Demo shout produces 43 threat to all aggroed mobs and doesnt have a cap.
So battle shout is better threat unless you pull around 7 mobs and they are all alive each time you demo shout.
But demo shout debuff is essential to tanking so you have to have it in your rotation somewhere.
Thunderstomp is terrible threat per rage and not useable in defensive stance.

Make sure you get anger management asap on your tank. It's the best rage generator of all by far and more rage equals more threat.
If you are power word shielding your tank, STOP. Never shield him unless it's life or death.
Ask a blacksmith to put a shieldspike on your shields.

[nodoze]

What you have should be workable and I would try every recommendation before leveling up alts.

If you do find nothing works for you having at least 1 Paladin in the party (either the healer or the Tank) helps make aggro much more manageable though personally I don't recommend a single Paladin healer if your party is all melee (except maybe at cap with great gear on your melee for PVE). Your party is ranged so not a concern but I just wanted to denote that caveat for melee groups so that other readers running melee don't think I mean that in all circumstances...

Personally I think Paladin is the best/easiest Tank for reasonable pulls for dungeon clearing via built in tools for most people (especially on a new team and/or a team without a Paladin healer). Having cleanse, self/off-heals, bubbles, auras, buffs and a 2nd Rezzer is a lot of value in addition to threat management (not all parties need salvation). A Paladin Tank can also turn a single healer team into dual Healer team for WPVP which really helps WPVP viability for many teams.

A Lock's utility is more than just summons as should be able to use 'eye of kilrogg' for pulling, give rez stone, health stones, party/tank buff (or offtank pet), among other things and post 30 a Lock's AoE should be close to a Mages. It is up to you but some folk even do all locks or only 1 mage so any/all options are viable and they are essentially interchangeable with pros/cons. Personally I think having at least 1 of each gives the best party synergy (unless you already have a Mage at cap to give your party free water and then maybe go all Warlocks).

If you do level up a duo to swap and contrast/compare based on your concerns I would indeed do a Paladin & a Mage but, since you have a ranged party and already have a Warrior, actually I would try the Paladin as the Healer with your Warrior Tanking just to see if it suits you better before abandoning the Warrior... A Warrior with Retribution Aura and the rest of the party getting -30% Threat due to 'Blessing of Salvation' may make it to where you really like your warrior and don't have to micro-manage him. If you have had problems with your healer getting aggro you shouldn't with a Paladin as they are at 25% healing Threat to begin with (compared to regular healers being 50%) and with -30% on top of that a Paladin healer should realistically never take aggro. I do like Priest AoE healing in emergencies but if you are tanking effectively at range with good aggro management the Paladin healing should be enough (especially in an all Mage or mostly Mage party where AoEing doesn't cause loss of health).

[Purpleflavor]

Nodoze gives top tier advice

also

Side question : If i use my lvl 29 priest with the others being 23, in the stockade for ex, will I be penalized in terms of xp?
Yes you will be penalized, lower levels get less, but lower levels need less per level so it evens out. just make sure the mobs arent grey to your low levels and that they arent missing too often.

this is the guestamated formula
CL1 = Character 1 Level, assumed to be the higher level character
CL2 = Character 2 Level
MXP = Solo Mob Experience, as calculated above for CL1
XP1 = MXP * CL1 / (CL1 + CL2), the experience awarded to character 1
XP2 = MXP * CL2 / (CL1 + CL2), the experience awarded to character 2

example
A duo of levels 36 and 34 kill a mob of level 34.
CL1 = 36
CL2 = 34
ML = 34
MXP = 187.500 (the solo XP as calculated for the level 36 char)
XP1 = 187.5 * 36 / 70 = 96.429 (rounds down to 96)
XP2 = 187.5 * 34 / 70 = 91.071 (rounds down to 91)

[Nyth]

Thanks a lots to you both. Some goods arguments there. I'll stick with my comp.

@Purpleflavor, indeed, I am pretty much doing what you describe with the war. Just had the feeling that I was losing agro to easily (to the priest heling in particular) and then, even demo shouting does not bring back mobs to me. Have to single pick each of them with Taunt, then losing focus on the remainder of the team for a while.

I had heard that Pala is much better at aoe aggro and was wondering.

As for mage vs lock, I guess the utility brought by the latter makes sens even at the expense of a bit more management.

Now, back to the game ! :-)

[Purpleflavor]

Thanks a lots to you both. Some goods arguments there. I'll stick with my comp.

@Purpleflavor, indeed, I am pretty much doing what you describe with the war. Just had the feeling that I was losing agro to easily (to the priest heling in particular) and then, even demo shouting does not bring back mobs to me. Have to single pick each of them with Taunt, then losing focus on the remainder of the team for a while.

I had heard that Pala is much better at aoe aggro and was wondering.

As for mage vs lock, I guess the utility brought by the latter makes sens even at the expense of a bit more management.

Now, back to the game ! :-)
Just a small tip that might help, if you are losing aggro to the healer, you are likely healing too early in the pull. You generally dont want to start healing until the tank is around half health, and with stamina buffs from both your priest and lock the tank should have a lot of health. Pre-hotting and shielding in classic is really bad for a tanks mental stability, which is another reason druids are bad 5man healers. By the time the tank dips down near half health they should have gotten out a battle shout and a demo shout, pop a big heal and a renew on them and you shouldnt be able to pull aggro from him at all. The two shouts before you land your first heal will produce about 400-450 threat, and healing threat is always reduced by 50% plus any talents or threat reducing buffs you have active. This is a big reason why people like pally's, as Salvation allows healers to get away with generally keeping a tank topped off and playing inefficient.


yes a pally tank is much better at aoe aggro atm.

With Salvation, Sanctuary, holy shield, and consecration they are on par at holding aoe aggro with warriors, but there is a newly discovered mechanic with greater blessings and righteous fury that works similar to a warriors battle shout, but doing double the threat of shout, that is pushing them to the top of aoe threat of all tanks.

With Salvation and speccing your dps/healers into threat reduction talents, you can be pretty careless on pulls as long as your pally lands a decent consecrate on everything.

Warlock aoe starts to shine at level 30 when they get hellfire. When you get hellfire, your lock will be top aoe dps.