RWWWP -- will doing dungeons get easier? Or am I needing a change?

[vincenntxue]

So I've been pretty hesitant on which team to choose as it's a struggle to 60 for sure. Rogue is my main, and now that I know BGs won't have follow I'm really wanting to include classes I'd like to play. I finally finished deadmines with my team being level 21 and having decent gear from DM, but I'm worried it's only going to get more difficult and that I may want to switch a team member out. Ideally I could replace my rogue with a warrior, but honestly pvping solo with a warrior to me would be a nightmare in bgs. My rogue also seems to out dps my locks which is nice, but he's also the character I control and sometimes it's not as easy to lay out DoTs(In fact, tempted to switch from affliction to full destro or demo)

For anyone who's played a similar comp, do dungeons get easier? Or even those who ran a tank, what did your progression look like?

[Svpernova09]

They get easier in Burning Crusade, IMHO culminating into the glory multiboxing days of Wrath of the Lich King.

[nodoze]

So I've been pretty hesitant on which team to choose as it's a struggle to 60 for sure. Rogue is my main, and now that I know BGs won't have follow I'm really wanting to include classes I'd like to play. I finally finished deadmines with my team being level 21 and having decent gear from DM, but I'm worried it's only going to get more difficult and that I may want to switch a team member out. Ideally I could replace my rogue with a warrior, but honestly pvping solo with a warrior to me would be a nightmare in bgs. My rogue also seems to out dps my locks which is nice, but he's also the character I control and sometimes it's not as easy to lay out DoTs (In fact, tempted to switch from affliction to full destro or demo)

For anyone who's played a similar comp, do dungeons get easier? Or even those who ran a tank, what did your progression look like?Is W for Warriors or WarLocks?: I will assume WarLocks based on your text...
Is P for Paladin or PrieSt?: I will assume Priest for now though Paladin has Threat Management advantages if you are using the Warlock pets to Tank...

Hard questions...

The grind to 60 is such that some never make it and there is no guarantee that any that do will later level a 2nd team to cap...

One general rule of thumb is to play what you want to play and often include your main in your team (especially if your main is a class that sucks to level solo). That being said, some class/specs are pretty easy to level to cap solo (like Hunter, Druid Cat, Rogue) so there is an argument to be made that you could just level one of those solo and do a more optimum team.

After doing a melee team into my 30s (I have always done ranged teams in the past) I will say for me that I find ranged teams much easier. I am glad I am doing 3Warriors+2Paladins for multiple reasons (mainly because I want 2 Paladins & 1 Warrior at cap & because I like learning new things) but don't recommend a melee group for most boxers... Bottom-line (no other goals considered) I think the overall best dungeon grinding team for most boxers is something like the following which is both Trinity capable and AoE Capable (you can do both):

Paladin Tank+Priest Healer+2Warlocks+Mage (you could also do 1 Warlock+2Mages & if Horde go Warrior or Druid Tank);

If I were you and wanting to main a Rogue I see the following primary options (there are obviously many more but I will cover these):

1) Rogue (driver)+3 Warlocks+Paladin (use Warlock pets as Tanks, Rogue+Warlocks as DPS, use Paladin to manage Threat and Heal); This group should be able to at least single target DPS well & possibly AoE leveraging Concentration Aura and reduced Threat; It has the best chance of the Warlocks pets actually Tanking (reported successful from at least 1 boxer with a Paladin using ret aura & salvation) but single target healing will be kinda painful until the Paladin can get crit gear. If you are going to run this team as mainly a single target DPS team anyway maybe sub a Mage for a Warlock and only have 2 pet Tanks...

2) Rogue (driver)+3 Warlocks+Priest (use Warlock pets as Tanks, Rogue+Warlocks as DPS, use Priest to Heal); This group should be able to at least single target DPS well & has strong AoE Healing but may not be able to Tank without the reduced Threat from a Paladin (many reported problems with Warlock pet Tanking without a Paladin);

3) Paladin Tank (or Warrior/Druid if Horde)+Rogue+2 Warlocks+Priest You may need to drive this group from the Rogue to optimize DPS but it should be doable. You could initiate from Paladin and switch to Rogue if you prefer. You could also sub a Warlock for a Mage for free Water.

4) Paladin Tank (or Warrior/Druid if Horde)+3 Warlocks+Priest (and level Rogue separately); This group would be a proto-typical ranged Trinity though would likely use a lot of Water so maybe sub in a Mage replacing a Warlock. 3 Warlocks with Concentration Aura likely can do good AoE without losing ticks due to incoming damage.

In the end it comes down to what you want/prefer... Some additional thoughts:

I see 2) as the most risky as multiple People have reported Threat problems with that kind of composition.

1) is the most interesting as at least 1 person has reported success with that composition and it would be great to have multiple examples. I may actually do something like this for one of my future groups or at least end up able to mix-match this combo at cap (likely minus the Rogue).

4) is the most Prototypical group but would require you to level the Rogue separately. If you really only want the 5man team for grinding dungeons for gold for your Rogue main then this could work somewhat to your advantage as you won't have to keep bringing your Rogue to your team for dungeon grinding.

3) is the closest to having a true Trinity option while still including your Rogue main. If you are risk adverse and think it likely that you will only level 1 team to cap and that single team really needs to include your main then this is maybe the safest option.

[vincenntxue]

Is W for Warriors or WarLocks?: I will assume WarLocks based on your text...
Is P for Paladin or PrieSt?: I will assume Priest for now though Paladin has Threat Management advantages if you are using the Warlock pets to Tank...

Hard questions...

The grind to 60 is such that some never make it and there is no guarantee that any that do will later level a 2nd team to cap...

One general rule of thumb is to play what you want to play and often include your main in your team (especially if your main is a class that sucks to level solo). That being said, some class/specs are pretty easy to level to cap solo (like Hunter, Druid Cat, Rogue) so there is an argument to be made that you could just level one of those solo and do a more optimum team.

After doing a melee team into my 30s (I have always done ranged teams in the past) I will say for me that I find ranged teams much easier. I am glad I am doing 3Warriors+2Paladins for multiple reasons (mainly because I want 2 Paladins & 1 Warrior at cap & because I like learning new things) but don't recommend a melee group for most boxers... Bottom-line (no other goals considered) I think the overall best dungeon grinding team for most boxers is something like the following which is both Trinity capable and AoE Capable (you can do both):

Paladin Tank+Priest Healer+2Warlocks+Mage (you could also do 1 Warlock+2Mages & if Horde go Warrior or Druid Tank);

If I were you and wanting to main a Rogue I see the following primary options (there are obviously many more but I will cover these):

1) Rogue (driver)+3 Warlocks+Paladin (use Warlock pets as Tanks, Rogue+Warlocks as DPS, use Paladin to manage Threat and Heal); This group should be able to at least single target DPS well & possibly AoE leveraging Concentration Aura and reduced Threat; It has the best chance of the Warlocks pets actually Tanking (reported successful from at least 1 boxer with a Paladin using ret aura & salvation) but single target healing will be kinda painful until the Paladin can get crit gear. If you are going to run this team as mainly a single target DPS team anyway maybe sub a Mage for a Warlock and only have 2 pet Tanks...

2) Rogue (driver)+3 Warlocks+Priest (use Warlock pets as Tanks, Rogue+Warlocks as DPS, use Priest to Heal); This group should be able to at least single target DPS well & has strong AoE Healing but may not be able to Tank without the reduced Threat from a Paladin (many reported problems with Warlock pet Tanking without a Paladin);

3) Paladin Tank (or Warrior/Druid if Horde)+Rogue+2 Warlocks+Priest You may need to drive this group from the Rogue to optimize DPS but it should be doable. You could initiate from Paladin and switch to Rogue if you prefer. You could also sub a Warlock for a Mage for free Water.

4) Paladin Tank (or Warrior/Druid if Horde)+3 Warlocks+Priest (and level Rogue separately); This group would be a proto-typical ranged Trinity though would likely use a lot of Water so maybe sub in a Mage replacing a Warlock. 3 Warlocks with Concentration Aura likely can do good AoE without losing ticks due to incoming damage.

In the end it comes down to what you want/prefer... Some additional thoughts:

I see 2) as the most risky as multiple People have reported Threat problems with that kind of composition.

1) is the most interesting as at least 1 person has reported success with that composition and it would be great to have multiple examples. I may actually do something like this for one of my future groups or at least end up able to mix-match this combo at cap (likely minus the Rogue).

4) is the most Prototypical group but would require you to level the Rogue separately. If you really only want the 5man team for grinding dungeons for gold for your Rogue main then this could work somewhat to your advantage as you won't have to keep bringing your Rogue to your team for dungeon grinding.

3) is the closest to having a true Trinity option while still including your Rogue main. If you are risk adverse and think it likely that you will only level 1 team to cap and that single team really needs to include your main then this is maybe the safest option.


Ty for such a detailed response! I'm definitely going to roll rogue, and if I'm being honest I'd REALLY like to have a mage leveled, but if I'm thinking bgs (Warsong in particular) Locks would be easier to be a standstill target as I keep my rogue near in mid. I'm worried as mages with no follow might be weird, especially since they need to stay out of range, where locks can stand where they are, to an extent.

Here's what I'm thinking to your responses though,
Paladin seems fun actually, and I've never played one.. so having one leveled to switch out a lock might be nice, especially since melee is insane end game apparently. My worry though would again be BGS, and controlling two melee characters at once.. in pvp.

I also wouldn't mind switching out a lock with a mage, as that's certainly a class I'd like to have leveled, and 1 mage in pvp may be useful due to cc like frostnova which is huge, especially for a sub rogue. But then it's whether I can sync those skills with the same keybinds as lock. (Like shadowbolt with frost bolt, insta cast fireblast with 12sec cd DoT)

I really like the idea of mages for pvp, but even with insta cast, I'd still have to face the target which could be difficult without follow, especially with melee. Whereas warlock I just need to be standing in range. Would any of that be incorrect? And lastly, If I were to switch out a lock with a mage to have 2x lock 1x mage -- would that benefit the group at all either in both PvE or PvP?

[nodoze]

Ty for such a detailed response! I'm definitely going to roll rogue, and if I'm being honest I'd REALLY like to have a mage leveled, but if I'm thinking bgs (Warsong in particular) Locks would be easier to be a standstill target as I keep my rogue near in mid. I'm worried as mages with no follow might be weird, especially since they need to stay out of range, where locks can stand where they are, to an extent.

Here's what I'm thinking to your responses though,
Paladin seems fun actually, and I've never played one.. so having one leveled to switch out a lock might be nice, especially since melee is insane end game apparently. My worry though would again be BGS, and controlling two melee characters at once.. in pvp.

I also wouldn't mind switching out a lock with a mage, as that's certainly a class I'd like to have leveled, and 1 mage in pvp may be useful due to cc like frostnova which is huge, especially for a sub rogue. But then it's whether I can sync those skills with the same keybinds as lock. (Like shadowbolt with frost bolt, insta cast fireblast with 12sec cd DoT)

I really like the idea of mages for pvp, but even with insta cast, I'd still have to face the target which could be difficult without follow, especially with melee. Whereas warlock I just need to be standing in range. Would any of that be incorrect? And lastly, If I were to switch out a lock with a mage to have 2x lock 1x mage -- would that benefit the group at all either in both PvE or PvP?I would plan on not taking more than one character at a time into BattleGrounds...

You likely will piss off a bunch of people and not really increase your own fun level in the process either.

For WPVP they should be fine but for BGs I would just plan on queueing Rogue, Paladin, Mage, Warlock, etc separately and focus on mastering each. If you later get situations where it makes sense to do multiple characters in a BG (for example it can make sense if you are in a premade which likes to typically leave characters at every node (including the one right by the GY then bonus!).

If you really want to max out melee then finding a healer buddy to duo with is optimal for both BGs & WPVP. A Druid partnered with a Rogue can be lots of fun. I love Paladins and my brother always played his Paladin like a Warrior but I would not call that optimal unless maybe if you are by yourself in a PuG... I believe when solo he will Queue for PuG BGs with that Paladin Reckoning build I linked above but when we Duo I hope he takes the Warrior instead (with me on my Paladin focused on healing the truck!). If you really want a truck melee DPS option (instead of or in addition to the finesse/control Rogue melee DPS) then I would fit a Warrior in... If you don't want to level the Rogue separately and want lots of options (yet cover your bases) & have a truck melee duo option maybe look at:

Warrior+Rogue+Warlock+Mage+Paladin

It isn't optimal for dungeon grinding but should be able to get the job done. I would likely initiate with Warrior and have the rogue behind the boss/mob being focused with the rest of the team at range. Priest would be easier while leveling & doing instances in general but Warrior+Paladin is better than Warrior+Priest as a PVP melee truck duo so you have to pick your priority...