3 mages or 2 mages 1 priest for dps team

[Mmrwowboxer]

How much damage would I lose changing one of my 3 dps mages to a dps priest? 4 out of 5 chars of the comp I want to run I have pretty much decided already. Losing the 3rd arcane explosion and replacing it with holy nova would be a dps loss for sure, but how noticible would it be?

This is a Wpvp and dungeon farming group

1 pally(main)
1 warrior
2 mages
1 mage or priest

The reasons why I would like a dps priest are that I can switch comps around if I get bored, and I can make the priest a night elf along with the warrior.

So my choice now is between:
Team 1
1 human paladin (heal)
1 human warrior (tank)
3 human mages (dps)

Or Team 2 and 2.5

Team 2
1 human paladin (heals)
1 Nelf warrior (tank)
2 human mages (dps)
1 Nelf priest (dps)

Team 2.5 (team 2's 2nd composition)
1 human paladin (Tank)
1 Nelf priest (heals)
2 human mages (dps)
1 Nelf warrior (dps)

[nodoze]

I am a little tired but I think from an Alliance race standpoint the following are considered optimal races for the classes you are considering (though it should be noted that there are some ranking variations depending on who is doing the rankings):

-Priest: Dwarf (best by far for both PVE & PVP due to Fear Ward+Desperate Prayer+Stone Ward);
-Warrior: PVE: Human>Dwarf>NE>Gnome; PVP: Gnome>Dwarf>Human>NE;
-Paladin: PVE: Human>Dwarf; PVP: Dwarf>Human;
-Mage: PVE: Gnome; PVP:Gnome;

Note that it isn't difficult to get any of the Alliance races together. There are some short cuts documented in a few threads that make it pretty easy to get them all initially grouped (if needed I can help find that later after I get some rest)...

Personally I am planning on a 2 Paladin+2 Warrior+1 Druid Melee Cleave group for dungeon clears and from a WPVP min/max standpoint I have been thinking of doing 2 Dwarf Paladins, 2 Gnome Warriors, & a NE Druid (I want a WSG Druid flag runner & NE is the only alliance racial option). That being said my brother and I like the looks of humans & historically our mains have been Humans so we may end up doing at least 1 human paladin and at least 1 human Warrior.

If your group is going to do WPVP then I would definitely recommend you have 2 healers so 1 healer can help keep the other healer up if when gets focused. Personally I think 2 Paladins are the most survivable healing duo for WPVP.

With all the above in mind, for a WPVP focused group that would also being running dungeons, from the 2 group compositions you mentioned, I would respectfully recommend your group 2.0 adjusted slightly as follows:

-1 Warrior Gnome (PVE Tank, PVP DPS?);
-1 Paladin Dwarf (Heals);
-1 Priest Dwarf (PVE DPS, PVP at least off-Heal);
-2 Mages Gnomes (DPS);

That being said I am not sure if there is a single spec that makes for good shadow priest DPS and solid off-healing so you could instead go like your 2.5:

-1 Paladin Dwarf (PVE Tank, PVP Heals via single spec);
-1 Priest Dwarf (Heals);
-2 Mages Gnomes (DPS);
-1 Warrior Gnome (DPS);

Bottom line is that I am not sure the Warrior makes the most sense considering the rest of the group composition and would respectfully recommend you consider the following 2 options as well:

-1 Paladin Dwarf (PVE Tank, PVP Heals);
-1 Priest Dwarf (Heals);
-3 Mages Gnomes (DPS);

OR

-2 Paladin Dwarfs (both heal in PVP & 1 Tanks in PVE);
-3 Mages Gnomes (DPS);

Personally when multi-boxing I think the fewer the classes (or at least play-styles) the better and duo Paladins are the best healing duo in WPVP but I do see some merit to going with a Dwarven Priest (especially if you tend to get bored with fewer classes and play-styles). Another advantage of this last group is that they all start out together (though as I said it isn't that hard to get multi-race Alliance groups together due to short-cuts).

[Mmrwowboxer]

Now I'm thinking of bringing more class diversity to give me more options at endgame. I'm am contemplating a paladin, priest, 2 mages and either a warlock or warrior.

With a Warlock I have the ease of all my helper toons being ranged, and I can wand spam to save mana. I saw a 4x wand shoot group in swifty's stream and it did a nice amount of damage. Also the utility of a voidwalker off tank if things get to hectic on my paladin.

A warrior, well I don't really know the benefits. Damage is not really there at lower levels, and I don't know how hard it would be to tank on the paladin, and have the rest of the team split between melee an ranged. My idea is to treat it as a felguard, and charge in, thunderclap, while controlling my paladin. I don't know if this is easier said than done.

I'm just looking to be able to level up by doing dungeons, and have a team with me in WPVP as gank protection. I want to keep things as simple as possible, but have as much group diversity at the same time.

[nodoze]

Now I'm thinking of bringing more class diversity to give me more options at endgame. I'm am contemplating a paladin, priest, 2 mages and either a warlock or warrior.

With a Warlock I have the ease of all my helper toons being ranged, and I can wand spam to save mana. I saw a 4x wand shoot group in swifty's stream and it did a nice amount of damage. Also the utility of a voidwalker off tank if things get to hectic on my paladin.

A warrior, well I don't really know the benefits. Damage is not really there at lower levels, and I don't know how hard it would be to tank on the paladin, and have the rest of the team split between melee an ranged. My idea is to treat it as a felguard, and charge in, thunderclap, while controlling my paladin. I don't know if this is easier said than done.

I'm just looking to be able to level up by doing dungeons, and have a team with me in WPVP as gank protection. I want to keep things as simple as possible, but have as much group diversity at the same time.If it were me between those choices I would do:

Paladin Dwarf Tank
Priest Dwarf Healz
2 Mages Gnomes DPS, buffs, ports, water,food
1 Warlock Gnome DPS, buffs,off Tank pet,summons,health stones,self-rez soulstones.

Covers all the bases and gives lots of utility (including wipe insurance). You can recall other characters to town to train/vendor/bank/etc and then use the Warlock to summon them back. If you have a 2nd level 20+ Warlock on one of your non-Warlock accounts you can summon that Warlock alt to the group, recall your main Warlock to train/vendor/bank/etc and then use the alt warlock to summon your main warlock back. I kinda wish I had a warlock in my main group for those reasons...

It also gives you the 2 healers for PVP if you spec the Paladin to be able to both main heal and tank decently. Being Dwarves both will get stone form and your dwarf priest can give fear ward to the party.

[Mmrwowboxer]

Thanks for your knowledge. Less than 2 weeks to and I absolutely cannot wait. We're almost there.

The pally, priest, 2x mages, Warlock group you pitched sounds good. My only concern is if anything will be too overcomplicated because I like things simple. I only run HotKeyNet and I keep all my scripts and macro's simple.

For the paladin and warlock, I would rather have as human. Is there a specific reason your picking them as dwarves instead?

[nodoze]

Thanks for your knowledge. Less than 2 weeks to and I absolutely cannot wait. We're almost there.

The pally, priest, 2x mages, Warlock group you pitched sounds good. My only concern is if anything will be too overcomplicated because I like things simple. I only run HotKeyNet and I keep all my scripts and macro's simple.

For the paladin and warlock, I would rather have as human. Is there a specific reason your picking them as dwarves instead?I don't know much about HotKeyNet but I suspect the Paladin-Tank+Priest+2Mage+Warlock is one of most straight forward party compositions to run regardless of what tools you are using... Maybe some other folk with more experience can give feedback as well...

Sorry for any confusion. Unlike many other games where racial differences are mainly cosmetic, in Classic WoW Races can provide significant advantages (if not be downright imbalanced for certain classes/roles/content)...

For Alliance side Warlocks and Mages the very strong recommendation is for Gnomes because:


-SMALLER HIT BOX: Gnomes are the only race which has a smaller hit box and thus is actually harder for Melee to hit. Even Dwarves don't get the smaller hit box like Gnomes do...
-Smaller stature: Tiny Gnomes are most likely to get lost in the "fog of war" & thus most likely to not get focused. Plus even when people do notice them they are so cute people often don't feel as threatened by them as compared the other, bigger, folk with the scarier pixels (until it is too late).
-Expansive Mind: 5% higher Primary stat that scales with gear and levels is Over Powered (OP) as it gives more mana and more crit chance;
-Engineering Specialization: Engineering is the most powerful profession in the game. +15 Engineering means that while all other puny races are capped at 300 skill, Gomes are capped at 315 Engineering skills. This means Gnome Battle pets are summoned at level 63 (315/5) instead of 60 (300/5) which is OP and at level 63 they give level 60 players/mobs miss chance/etc and hit lowly level 60s harder.
-Escape Artist: Gnomes can remove any movement speed reduction or immobilization effect once per minute and this is used re-actively.
-Arcane Resistance: +10 Arcane Resistance;



Priests are a special case as they have special class abilities granted by Race on top of the standard racial abilities. Of all the races on Horde and Alliance, Dwarves are considered by most people to be the strongest Priests because they get:

-Fear Ward: Protect party/raid member from next fear affect for 10 minutes (with only 30 second cool-down) which is great for both PVE and PVP;
-Desperate Prayer: Instant self heal that costs NO mana (10 minute cool-down); Note that Humans also get this but they don't get Fear Ward...


Only Dwarf Priests get the above skill combo but all Dwarves (including Dwarf Priests) also get:

-StoneForm: Grants 8 seconds of immunity to all Poisons, Bleeds, & Disease affects +10% armor (on a 3 minute cooldown). It is very OP and allows you to self remove the disorient effect from blind to regain control of your character and ignore all poisons, bleeds, & diseases during that time. This can be used BOTH pro-actively and re-actively...
-Find Treasure: Allows the dwarf to see chests/treasure on the mini-map so great to have at least 1 Dwarf in the party...
-Frost Resistance: +10 Frost resistance;


The above being said, Humans aren't bad, as Human Priests get:

Desperate Prayer: Nice instant no mana cost self heal (10 min cooldown);
Feedback: For 15 seconds any spell cast against you will burn a little bit of the attackers mana & cause minor damage (3 minute cooldown). Kinda "meh" though...


Only Human Priests get the above skill combo but all Humans also get:


The Human Spirit: +5% Spirit which has synergy with a Priest's Spiritual guidance for extra mana regen;
Perception: 20 seconds of increased stealth detection (3 minute cooldown) that typically needs to be used proactively to be useful.
Diplomacy: +10% reputation gain. Very nice but if you even have just 1 non-human in your party you will still need to have to grind the extra +10% anyway to get everyone to a given reputation goal. It is a great skill but also eventually becomes a dead skill once all your desired reputation levels are gained...
Sword & Mace Specialization: AWESOME for melee for PVE. Not really helpful for PVP (except when attacking a Gnome's level 63 Battle Pet which an Alliance character would only be doing in a duel). But 4/5 of your party are casters and even your Paladin in Tank mode sadly really isn't much of a melee...


While Gnomes are clearly "best" for Alliance Warlocks & Mages and Dwarves are clearly "best" for all Priests, Paladins can be argued either way depending on your goals... Human Paladins could arguably be better for PVE if you are regularly hitting on level 63 bosses and/or in a hurry to get some Reputation rewards for only your PVE Tank.

Bottom line is that in the end you should play what you want to play (others aren't paying for your subscriptions!). Ultimately it comes down to how much you focus on PVP and whether you care about min/maxing for PVP... It can also come down to ascetics and personal preference. For example, if having to look at short & squat characters all the time is going to want you to play less (or stop playing) then by all means pick something more appealing as we would rather have you play then not...

TLDR: I recommend you play what you want as long as you understand and are OK with the trade-offs (fore-warned is fore-armed). Unfortunately to understand all the trade-offs you should read the above ;-)

[Mmrwowboxer]

Well despite the months of brainstorming and flip flopping back and forth I think Im going to go with;

1 human paladin
1 dwarf priest
2 gnome mages
1 gnome Warlock

Thanks for all ur insight and if it wasn't for these forums I'd be lost.

My next question for you expertise is professions. Im guessing engineering on all of them. Gathering probly wouldn't work as you can only gather from one node on one toon right? Skinning might be useful but ×5 is overkill, so I'll have that on 1 toon. Blacksmithing for the pally. Tailoring and enchanting for the mages. That leaves 1 maybe 2 spots open if I decide to go with skinning.

I hear alchemy is good for gold. Inscription I have no idea.

So I guess my question is should I go for gathering professions and skinning or just buy stuff on the ah and go for crafting? I have no idea about the economy in this game.

[nodoze]

I could use help on professions myself.

I planned on Engineering for PVP for all of my main party.

I plan on Blacksmithing for the Glimmering Mithiral Horseshoe on both Paladins.
I think I want 1 disenchanter in the party as I don't have a warlock in my main party.
I then wanted 1 of each main resource skill in the party (skinning,gathering,mining)...

If my math is right that is 11 and I only have 10 slots so I got to give up at least one so which one?

I also don't know if there are other/better choices for PVP in general or that are key in PVP for Paladins, warriors, & Druids?

Also don't know what I am giving up PVPwise by going blacksmithing for the horseshoe trinket... Maybe that is overkill.

The reason I wanted one of each gathering skill was because I planned on turning on resource tracking and treasure hunting and find undead on specific dedicated main party characters and then use ISboxer's VFX to pull those tracking to my main foreground client. That way I can easily grab everything I can so to maximize gold making potential...

As far as the rest of the professions I plan to do at least one additional 5box team to 35+ (maybe more) for the passive cooldown goldmaking professions and then dedicate them to any professions I want to have maxed but not necessarily on my PVP mains.

Any help or thoughts are appreciated as I am not sure yet...

[waddles]

Gathering probly wouldn't work as you can only gather from one node on one toon right?


Gathering is fine. I'm not sure why only being able to do it from one character would mean it's not worth doing. During my testing on live and during the stress test I did mining and herbalism on two distinct characters. Mining was on my master and herbalism was on one of the slaves. Obviously I can see my master's mini map whenever I'm driving from him. The hardest part was setting up VFX so that I could see my herbalism slave's minimap on my master. That took about five minutes to set up, a little longer if you start from no knowledge of VFX.

From there it was almost as easy as doing gathering on one toon. The only exception was flipping to the herbalism slave when I saw a node, setting the party to follow him, and go collect the node.

[nodoze]

... Gathering probly wouldn't work as you can only gather from one node on one toon right? ...

Gathering is fine. I'm not sure why only being able to do it from one character would mean it's not worth doing. During my testing on live and during the stress test I did mining and herbalism on two distinct characters. Mining was on my master and herbalism was on one of the slaves. Obviously I can see my master's mini map whenever I'm driving from him. The hardest part was setting up VFX so that I could see my herbalism slave's minimap on my master. That took about five minutes to set up, a little longer if you start from no knowledge of VFX.

From there it was almost as easy as doing gathering on one toon. The only exception was flipping to the herbalism slave when I saw a node, setting the party to follow him, and go collect the node.Overall my thoughts exactly!

My only respectful recommendation is to consider running Skinning on your main Foreground as you will be skinning a lot more than you will be gathering, mining, or finding chests. In my case I plan to have Skinning on my main Warrior that I plan to drive with and then I will VFX in the following mini-maps into my "Heads Up Display" HUD:

- Gathering Mini-map (then switch to my gatherer when close);
- Minining Mini-map (then switch to my miner when close);
- Treasure Hunting Mini-map (then switch if needed when close);
- Undead Mini-map (likely no need to switch when close);

Similarly I would source in any Hunter mini maps if I had hunters in the party...