Rogues in mixed group

[tarfu]

Hey everyong, I have been looking through the forums for what everyone else plans to do for their multibox team.

I was thinking of doing Prot War, Holy Priest, Combat Rogue, Frost Mage, Affliction Warlock/Enhancement shaman

I notice no one seems to be using rogues, I have found a few comments on energy management being the issue? From my understanding a fairly effective rotation for combat rogue is sinsiter strike and slice and dice, or backstab and slice and dice. What am i missing? are rogues just not used because melee positioning is a PITA?

If positioning is the problem then running an enhancment shaman would be a bad time too... but windfury totem and rogue dps just seems to legit!

Any info or advice would be great!

[MrPeakyBicepsMan]

Rogues are by far the worst class for multiboxing in classic because doing a near optimal dps rotation with energy and combo points is a pain in the ass while you’re dpsing with other classes, and because rogues are essentially a strictly worse warrior for multiboxing. One of the major strengths of rogues is stealth and openers but stealth is basically worthless for multiboxing due to the hefty movement speed penalty; not that it would be particularly useful without it.

Im going to be 40boxing and I will be using 0 rogues.

[xandorz]

I am pretty sure IWT also breaks stealth because it enables auto attack, so you most likely can't use openers with rogues unless the rogue is the leader (since you don't need IWT on leader).

Rogues are squishy, hard to manage combo points and energy, has cds as gap closers (sprint, vanish, blind doesn't work great when multiboxing).

It is just the worst class to multibox, if you want to have a rogue at lvl 60 it can be worth to have one but it is the weakest link of the multiboxing group.

It is also harder to play a mixed team of ranged+melee because then you have to make sure melee goes in melee and ranged stays away, which might mean pressing some additional key before every fight. More likely to get stuck with melee in something or face the wrong direction with ranged. You probably want to have IWT enabled on casters but not use it unless you need to face enemy or talk to some npc but on melee you want to use it all the time.
Also makes burst uneven since ranged can start right away but melee need to go to enemy, can get stuck in slows/roots and use different kind of abilities (shaman have the best burst in pvp since it all happen at once so it is unhealable).

[flou]

Hey everyong, I have been looking through the forums for what everyone else plans to do for their multibox team.

I was thinking of doing Prot War, Holy Priest, Combat Rogue, Frost Mage, Affliction Warlock/Enhancement shaman

I notice no one seems to be using rogues, I have found a few comments on energy management being the issue? From my understanding a fairly effective rotation for combat rogue is sinsiter strike and slice and dice, or backstab and slice and dice. What am i missing? are rogues just not used because melee positioning is a PITA?

If positioning is the problem then running an enhancment shaman would be a bad time too... but windfury totem and rogue dps just seems to legit!

Any info or advice would be great!

I was thinking going with the same team because I want to main a rogue... but I believe 3 warriors/rogue/shaman would be more viable.

If you are not going to main a rogue, then imho do not use it in your team!

[tarfu]

Thanks for all the replies.

I guess i will have to rethink my group comp.

I just thought it would be good to have some physical DPS as well as magic DPS. Also i thought it would be good to have someone to use the leather drops, and have someone to be able to open locked doors and chest, and SAP.

Apparently i am wrong :P

[Apatheist]

Thanks for all the replies.

I guess i will have to rethink my group comp.

I just thought it would be good to have some physical DPS as well as magic DPS. Also i thought it would be good to have someone to use the leather drops, and have someone to be able to open locked doors and chest, and SAP.

Apparently i am wrong :P

It's not a bad idea to mix gear types so you can utilize more drops. It's just more difficult to manage groups with a mix of range and melee. As other people said, rogues are also more difficult to macro than most classes. You could swap the rogue for a hunter though this would introduce the deadzone so you'd have to get used to parking your hunter further back when you're using hellfire and arcane explosion which might get a bit annoying.

As well as the issues people have mentioned above, rogue AE damage is pretty poor. Your clear times would be increased more by a second mage. That would give you a pretty solid spellcleave group. Warrior, priest, mage*2 and a warlock.

[MiRai]

I am pretty sure IWT also breaks stealth because it enables auto attack, so you most likely can't use openers with rogues unless the rogue is the leader (since you don't need IWT on leader).
I share the opinions of the others in this thread, but I'm pretty sure the above issue could be solved by simply using a /stopattack command after interacting.

[Warrax]

I'm going to use the same team you commented on this thread (Alliance, so no Shaman) but I do it because I want to main a rogue. Yes, it is going to be way more challenging but I don't think is going to take me that much longer than leveling solo (I'm pretty sure it's going to be faster since I will be grinding on Dungeons).
If you aren't going to main a Rogue it's just going to make your life way harder.

I think the best comp would be Warrior, Shaman(or Priest Alliance) a Warlock (you can send a characetr to a city to sell and re-summon him) and 2 Mages.
3 Mages would be better probablly but I don't think the DPS gain would exceed the utility of Summon, Soulstone and a second tank a Warlock provides.

If you want to utilize all Gear drops you can always have a Balance Druid in the team. But you can also benefit from having an Enchanter and Disenchant all the Leather drops. :D

[flou]

I'm going to use the same team you commented on this thread (Alliance, so no Shaman) but I do it because I want to main a rogue. Yes, it is going to be way more challenging but I don't think is going to take me that much longer than leveling solo (I'm pretty sure it's going to be faster since I will be grinding on Dungeons).
If you aren't going to main a Rogue it's just going to make your life way harder.

I think the best comp would be Warrior, Shaman(or Priest Alliance) a Warlock (you can send a characetr to a city to sell and re-summon him) and 2 Mages.
3 Mages would be better probablly but I don't think the DPS gain would exceed the utility of Summon, Soulstone and a second tank a Warlock provides.

If you want to utilize all Gear drops you can always have a Balance Druid in the team. But you can also benefit from having an Enchanter and Disenchant all the Leather drops. :D

i decided to go with warrior/shaman/rogue/mage/warlock as i will main a rogue and need the utility of both mage and warlock.
I know i am making my life difficult... :-)

[Warrax]

If you are going to main a Rogue, I thhink is the best comp possible.

If you roll on EU-PvE on Pyrewood Village add me and we can see how we both progress :D

Good luck!!

[nodoze]

If you are going to main a Rogue, I thhink is the best comp possible.

If you roll on EU-PvE on Pyrewood Village add me and we can see how we both progress :D

Good luck!!Now all you 2 Rogues need is a dedicated stealth Druid to pocket heal you in World PVP & you will be set. Too bad I am on the Americas servers.

[flou]

If you are going to main a Rogue, I thhink is the best comp possible.

If you roll on EU-PvE on Pyrewood Village add me and we can see how we both progress :D

Good luck!!

Thank you,
I am going to roll on EU-PvP but have not decided yet between the 2 available servers!

[flou]

Now all you 2 Rogues need is a dedicated stealth Druid to pocket heal you in World PVP & you will be set. Too bad I am on the Americas servers.

Druid healer for a 100% stealth team.... hmmm... come play in EU ;-)

[nodoze]

Druid healer for a 100% stealth team.... hmmm... come play in EU ;-)Thanks for the invite but I really need to focus my play time to evening hours US time and I want good ping. I was initially going 3 Warriors+2 Paladins but I do plan to mix in a Druid on my team specifically so I can both run flags in WSG and to join stealth groups (especially if I find I don't enjoy multi-boxing melee in World PVP).

I do hope you all get an EU Druid to run with you as that would really turbo charge a stealth group.

[zipzip]

As someone who plans on having a main rogue, I've appreciated reading through the responses in this thread. I was wondering about something similar, though a different way to ask the question: is it viable to 4-man dungeons, and if you were going into dungeons planning on only using 4 characters, which would you use?

Part of me is tempted to just treat my rogue like dead weight and have him maybe sap and do little/nothing else. Is that viable?

[nodoze]

As someone who plans on having a main rogue, I've appreciated reading through the responses in this thread. I was wondering about something similar, though a different way to ask the question: is it viable to 4-man dungeons, and if you were going into dungeons planning on only using 4 characters, which would you use?

Part of me is tempted to just treat my rogue like dead weight and have him maybe sap and do little/nothing else. Is that viable?I think the general consensus in the the thread is that a single Rogue in a 5man multiboxing group is fine as long as you drive from the Rogue.

Assuming a 4 man group has to have at least one healer (thus only 3 real DPS) the best 4 man group I can see is 3 melee Warriors running Melee Cleave style. The main concern there is that for all warriors to have optimal DPS they would be running in a DPS spec and pinging aggro and it may be too much for a single healer... That is why multiple people are running 3 Warrior+2 Paladins groups as all are very tanky and melee cleave with 2 healers should be forgiving enough for clearing dungeons.

That being said dropping a single warrior for another melee should be doable though slower. Personally I am switching from 3 Warriors+2 Paladins by swapping a Druid for a Warrior... Swapping a Warrior Cleave for a Bear Cleave will result in slower clears but may be more forgiving as the bear should be more Tanky and maybe I will have less ping-ponging of Aggro (I may try to drive from the Bear and keep the rest of the team on the opposite side if my bear can keep most aggro).

If I were you, not knowing any other goals/considerations, from a strickly dungeon clearing perspective feeding gear to a Rogue main, I would think a 2 Paladins+2 Warriors+1 Rogue (driven from Rogue) would be more optimal than a 4man configuration. You could maybe mix some CC into your flow from your Rogue before engaging a pack of mobs and then have your Warriors pull the rest and then have your Rogue backstab the focused target in the renaming group on your warriors. It may be slower clearing that just max cleaving through but it may be more forgiving if you can get a good amount of CC in before pulls.

EDIT: The bottom line is for dungeon clearing is that Warrior DPS really outshines other options by a significant amount. A general rule of thumb in multiboxing team composition is that each Cleave Warrior is like 1.5-2 Mages, between 2-4 Shaman, and like 3 DPS Paladins or Druid Bears and Warriors are more survivable than most options and don't need mana. Group them with Paladins and you get very survivable healers with the most mana efficient healing in the game and great buffs, auras, and judgements. Note that I can't take credit for those relative DPS benchmarks nor even the original idea of the '3 Warrior+2 Paladin' team composition as those came from Apathiest:

https://www.dual-boxing.com/threads/55446-4-pallys-1-druid?p=420038&viewfull=1#post420038

[JohnGabriel]

All the good things are on a 5 minute CD. With 5 rouges WPvP you will have so much burst to insta-kill anything, vanish, wait 5 minutes, repeat.

[zipzip]

Thanks for the thought out response, nodoze.


I think the general consensus in the the thread is that a single Rogue in a 5man multiboxing group is fine as long as you drive from the Rogue.


I wasn't really planning on driving from any perspective but the tank, though. If I was doing rogue + 4 ranged, then sure, I would absolutely drive from the rogue. Any comp that includes another melee, however, and I'm going to drive from the tank...hence just putting the rogue on follow.



[...]
If I were you, not knowing any other goals/considerations, from a strickly dungeon clearing perspective feeding gear to a Rogue main, I would think a 2 Paladins+2 Warriors+1 Rogue (driven from Rogue) would be more optimal than a 4man configuration. You could maybe mix some CC into your flow from your Rogue before engaging a pack of mobs and then have your Warriors pull the rest and then have your Rogue backstab the focused target in the renaming group on your warriors. It may be slower clearing that just max cleaving through but it may be more forgiving if you can get a good amount of CC in before pulls.


Great thoughts; I'm definitely going to consider an all-melee team. I was thinking about doing warrior tank + 3 rogue + pally healer, but perhaps I will consider warrior tank + 2 warr dps + rogue + pally, or even 3 warr dps + rogue + pally healer.

I feel like the more convoluted the pulling becomes, the better off I would be with something like tank+2xMage+healer (+rogue), and just to a very traditional...albeit 33% slower...group comp & clear.



EDIT: The bottom line is for dungeon clearing is that Warrior DPS really outshines other options by a significant amount. A general rule of thumb in multiboxing team composition is that each Cleave Warrior is like 1.5-2 Mages, between 2-4 Shaman, and like 3 DPS Paladins or Druid Bears and Warriors are more survivable than most options and don't need mana. Group them with Paladins and you get very survivable healers with the most mana efficient healing in the game and great buffs, auras, and judgements. Note that I can't take credit for those relative DPS benchmarks nor even the original idea of the '3 Warrior+2 Paladin' team composition as those came from Apathiest:

https://www.dual-boxing.com/threads/55446-4-pallys-1-druid?p=420038&viewfull=1#post420038


Thanks for the link -- I'm definitely going to check it out and more strongly consider all melee.

[nodoze]

All the good things are on a 5 minute CD. With 5 rouges WPvP you will have so much burst to insta-kill anything, vanish, wait 5 minutes, repeat.The focus in most of this thread was/is on safe & efficient dungeon clears feeding gear and gold to a Rogue main.

Are you sure 5 Rogues works on everything including bosses on the hardest dungeons? Maybe having a druid healer would be better or having a druid tank and druid healer would be better/safer if you want an all stealth group.

Bottom line is waiting 5 minutes on cooldowns sounds much slower than just melee cleaving through dungeons with 3 Warriors+2 Paladins (or 1 Rogue+2 Warriors+2 Paladins). Paladins are so mana efficient & can judge to regain mana you should rarely need to stop and drink (if ever).

[JohnGabriel]

The focus in most of this thread was/is on safe & efficient dungeon clears feeding gear and gold to a Rogue main.

Are you sure 5 Rogues works on everything including bosses on the hardest dungeons? Maybe having a druid healer would be better or having a druid tank and druid healer would be better/safer if you want an all stealth group.

Bottom line is waiting 5 minutes on cooldowns sounds much slower than just melee cleaving through dungeons with 3 Warriors+2 Paladins (or 1 Rogue+2 Warriors+2 Paladins). Paladins are so mana efficient & can judge to regain mana you should rarely need to stop and drink (if ever).

My bad I actually meant to reply to the all stealth 5 man team post about WPvP, I had too many windows open and I accidentally replied here.

[Warrax]

Part of me is tempted to just treat my rogue like dead weight and have him maybe sap and do little/nothing else. Is that viable?


I would think a 2 Paladins+2 Warriors+1 Rogue (driven from Rogue) would be more optimal than a 4man configuration. You could maybe mix some CC into your flow from your Rogue before engaging a pack of mobs

https://www.dual-boxing.com/threads/55446-4-pallys-1-druid?p=420038&viewfull=1#post420038

Remember that in classic sap takes you out of stealth, even if you specc for it it would be a waste of talent points and still has a 10% chance to take you out of stealth or be resisted.

Thanks for the link, great info.


Druid healer for a 100% stealth team.... hmmm... come play in EU ;-)

I plan on leveling another group with 5 druids but later on for that same purpose.