Comparison of squads for 5 man dungeons

[Gnomepower]

Hi all, I’m new to multi-boxing and have become quite intrigued after coming across ISBoxer and watching the plethora of vids online. I’m planning to multibox a 5 man crew for the challenge but also independence in farming endgame dungeons. My main for raids will be warrior so that role is set in stone.

The 3 crews I’m contemplating are:
-War/pally(healing)/mage/warlock/balance druid
-War/pally(healing)/3xmage
-4xwar and pally healing

The first is a nice balance of buffs, class utility and all ranged Dps (fairly easy to multi-class with castsequence macros in classic).
The second is pretty standard as far as ranged setups go and mages are very strong.
The latter I was pondering last night as I think clear speed with some decent gear could be fantastic and even have my main 2h arms tank potentially with 3 other warriors as fury (in endgame). The one thing I’m concerned about is how this would do through dungeons while Leveling. Would anyone with more extensive multiboxing experience have any thoughts or suggestions? As much as ranged sounds less problematic the idea of 4 warriors simultaneously charging in and cleaving/ww mobs sounds fantastic. Thanks so much!

[Longshot17]

I like the first team mainly due to Paladin/Warlock, making 2 lvl 40 mounts free with more money for the others.

However it sounds like, so far, that instances are easier then people 'recall'? I've seen a few videos on Youtube supporting this, so therefore if you plan to level this route, money may not be an issue.

The other main deciding factor for me (and it's always the deciding factor) which class can i get the most out of DPS-wise via 1 or 2 button macros. Haven't seen a lot so far and I only got to lvl 15 (which was max for Stress test) so wasn't able to test much there. Eg. I believe Hunters will probably get more dps then a warlock with a simple 1 or 2 castsequence macro? Mages may do better then both. Complete guesses by me though.

My options:
Alliance: Paladin(Healer/driver), Warlock, Mage, Priest, Warrior(Tank)
Horde: Shaman, Hunter, Mage, Priest(Healer/Driver), Warrior(Tank)

IWT worked so well with ISboxer and the Classic Wow client, so I like the idea of a few melee.

[Runamuck]

-War/pally(healing)/3xmage

[nodoze]

Of the 3 you listed for PVE I would do:

War/pally(healing)/3xmage

Though I would consider swapping an Warlock for a Mage though for utility of summoning and stones/etc.

A lot of people are doing 3 Warriors and 2 Paladins so that they have 2 healers for Open World PVP.

For PVE they are planning on running the 3 Warriors in DPS mode only swapping to Sheild on a warrior who has high incoming damage.

You can review a summary of what people are thinking/planning here:

https://www.dual-boxing.com/threads/55707-List-of-Classic-WoW-Multibox-Teams

Much discussion in the various threads.

[Gnomepower]

Thanks for the replies everyone. It seems caster wise mages are popular but some people like the lock utility which also seems good. the Two pallies option is interesting, that opens up blessing of kings and more healing as needed. I will have to look into that! :)

[Hksix]

I'm also strongly considering the first group. It's what this guy in the video below uses to aoe pull massive groups in 5 mans. He says it's doable in only T1 tanking gear. It won't be possible to do stuff like this with a warrior/paladin only group. It could be done with the 3 mage group as well but without thorns and fire shield, tank threat may be an issue (but threat probably won't matter with blessing of salvation).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5C0cx51BhHE&feature=youtu.be&t=63

[Gnomepower]

Since I’ll be running straight dungeons more-so than open world stuff, would 4 dps warriors and a pally cut it in instances or would I have to run one as tank in prot spec or add in a pally in prot spec? I was thinking of rotating taunt into retal and mocking blow for dps warriors to handle nasty bosses. As much as the caster dps sounds easier there’s just something about 3-4 warriors that sounds so fun. ;)

[Gnomepower]

Yeah with that first group you get might/retrib aura/thorns/motw/blood pact/fire shield buff wise on your tank which sounds fantastic for maintaining aggro. You also have the pally healing, balance druid helping as needed along with soulstone and Druid rez. It’s hard to base it on that vid as he’s naxx gear with TF but I get the jist of what he’s going for. That’s my conundrum with comparing 4 wars or 3 mages to that first group. Yes, you lose buffs and utility but you gain so much raw damage in place of it.

[Compton]

Of the 3 you listed for PVE I would do:

War/pally(healing)/3xmage

Though I would consider swapping an Warlock for a Mage though for utility of summoning and stones/etc.

A lot of people are doing 3 Warriors and 2 Paladins so that they have 2 healers for Open World PVP.

For PVE they are planning on running the 3 Warriors in DPS mode only swapping to Sheild on a warrior who has high incoming damage.

You can review a summary of what people are thinking/planning here:

https://www.dual-boxing.com/threads/55707-List-of-Classic-WoW-Multibox-Teams

Much discussion in the various threads.

I also plan to main a warrior, and I had been planning war/priest/mage/mage/lock (principally PVE). These multi-warrior threads by nodoze and apatheist have convinced me to consider war/war/war/pally/druid. Similar flexibility to the 3/2 war/pally setup, but gives me a stealth miner and LOTP. Leveling plan is bear tank/pally healer, and warrior cleave/ww fest. I’m testing out on retail now to see how IWT feels (I’m new to it, but it works really well so far). I suspect just having such a large % of dps coming from passive melee autoattacks is going to reduce the dps micromanagement and lead to faster dungeon clears. I’ll miss the food/ports/summons, but I think I’ll level a caster team after the melee team.

[Gnomepower]

I also plan to main a warrior, and I had been planning war/priest/mage/mage/lock (principally PVE). These multi-warrior threads by nodoze and apatheist have convinced me to consider war/war/war/pally/druid. Similar flexibility to the 3/2 war/pally setup, but gives me a stealth miner and LOTP. Leveling plan is bear tank/pally healer, and warrior cleave/ww fest. I’m testing out on retail now to see how IWT feels (I’m new to it, but it works really well so far). I suspect just having such a large % of dps coming from passive melee autoattacks is going to reduce the dps micromanagement and lead to faster dungeon clears. I’ll miss the food/ports/summons, but I think I’ll level a caster team after the melee team.

Interesting take on the bear tank, it does give some variety. LoTP is nice with 3 melee, that makes sense. You also gain an alternative armour type while leveling to capitalize on drops. Personally I like that more than double pally as I’m not planning to world pvp much. Yes, the melee autoattack train cleaving and shredding everything just sounds so fantastic. I’m going to setup a melee team on retail to get better with IWT use. This is great peeps thanks for all the feedback/ideas :)

-----------

After thinking about this more, I don’t think I’d do bear tank as I intend to play warrior main and I feel like I’d end up wanting to play on the bear’s screen since he would be tanking. Do you think you could set-up the bear tank as a slave fairly easily and still be able to maintain threat on most things? If not then I’m leaning more toward 4 wars in that case as I can go prot on my main closer to 60 and get used to being efficient as that. Otherwise I’d probably just aggro bounce between dps warriors at lower levels (if feasible). Love to have people’s feedback about this though!

[Apatheist]

Just found a decent YouTube video outlining dungeon grinding that contains some useful information for boxers.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F9frydWyhL8

[Compton]

Just found a decent YouTube video outlining dungeon grinding that contains some useful information for boxers.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F9frydWyhL8

This is great. Thank you!

[Apatheist]

A followup video from the same author. Pretty useful info. Particularly about the dungeon XP bonus -- 250% XP for elites inside of dungeons rather than 200%. I wasn't aware of that and it's not documented anywhere I could find.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xrJ56pzDExc

[MrPeakyBicepsMan]

Triple mage dps 10000%. The more mages you have the more damage each individual mage will do in both fire and frost. Fire mages can stack ignites together and overall have higher dps but frost mages have frostbite (15% chance on frost damage to freeze target for 4 seconds) and shatter (50% crit against frozen targets). I was leaning towards triple frost mage because 50% crit sounds amazing, but you can’t freeze bosses; and on trash you can just spam arcane explosion to do crazy aoe damage.

Im going to be running prot pally+ Resto druid that will go straight for imp thorns + triple fire mage for dungeon farming. Mages will have two points in arcane subtlety for 40% reduced arcane threat so with ret aura, thorns, consecration and the 40% decreased threat from arcane and the 30% reduced threat from salvation my mages will never pull agro while aoeing. I will also melt bosses by just spamming fireball and stacking ignite. At higher levels I’ll use a /cast at player macro with flamestrike to get the dot from it up before spamming arcane explosion.

[Mercbeast]

I'll be doing 2 war 2 paladins 1 priest, or 3 warriors 1 shaman 1 priest. I'm also debating for the horde side, 4 warriors 1 shaman.

I expect it will blow through 5 mans effectively. The only downside of this group is, it's not going to be able to finesse when it's a little bit on the low level side. So no real CC. The upside is, it's just going to be an AOE melee cleave.

[Apatheist]

I had considered warriors with a shaman and priest but priests are just so squishy in vanilla that mixing a priest into that group you might as well paint a target on its back for every enemy player you run into. Point of having two healers is to increase the tankiness of the group which isn't achieved by including a clothie that can be gibbed by a couple of rogues before you can even get a heal off.

For just straight dungeon farming as a melee group if you don't care at all about PvP then I don't think there's any doubt that 4 warriors and a shaman have the highest cleave potential. At least once your shaman gets a decent enough mana pool to be able to keep them alive.

I'll be sticking with my original warrior/paladin concept.

[Longshot17]

Okay pretty sure my team will be: Pally (tank), 2 Warriors, Warlock, Priest. Purely for PvE leveling via 5 man instances. One warrior specced in improved Demo shout the other Battleshout. Thinking about doing 1 with improved Rend as I'll be 'dotting' up everything with Warlock. But gotta spend more thought on the Warrior builds to cover all the good stuff. If I manage the Warlock he'll never be OOM and can move around and cast better then any other class. Plus the utility and Stam pet.

This comp gives my group two free mounts, and Priest are the bests heals at any level.

[Mercbeast]

I'll be doing some sort of melee cleave, but my main might be a hunter. Melee cleave is just so much more efficient in vanilla than a caster group until Dire Maul is implemented, where good CC play finally becomes necessary.

[Acidburning]

the melee cleave video helped finalize my first team thoughts. I am going with:

Warrior, Warrior, Rogue, Shaman, and Priest.

[Gala]

In case of a melee cleave with +3 warriors, I'm curious how you guys are planing to manage the dmg rotation on multiple warriors in terms of rage.
As far as I know the aoe rotation of a fury warrior looks smth like: Whirlwind > Bloodthirst > Cleave
WW requires 25 rage, BT 30 rage and CL 20 rage.
I can't think of any way to set a single button smash mapped key up that would execute those 3 abilitys in the mentioned priority. The warrior that has aggro might have the rage to to execute WW, BT and CL in between but the other warriors would most likely rage starve. They would sink all their rage on CL and don't have anything left when the other abilitys are off CD. Having one DPS key for WW and BT and a second one for CL also doesn't sound very effective. Some warriors would have enough rage for CL while other warriors don't. It seems to me like it's not possible to manage a flawless DPS rotation on multiple warriors.

How do you intend to set the DPS rotation on multiple warriors up?

[boneapetight]

How do you intend to set the DPS rotation on multiple warriors up?

I have been struggling with this same issue. I planned on running a melee cleave team after testing some mixed teams with mages which I originally believed would be the most efficient. My issue is with doing solid DPS on my warriors and rogue. Everyone seems to have this warrior trick down and maybe I'm missing the rotation?

I also need to decide if the Prot Pally is the best choice or if I should just scrap the second Paladin and go 3rd warrior or maybe druid tank for the LoTP bonus.

[Gala]

Main issue with the warri rota is that cleave and heroic strike are rage dump abilitys. So with multiple warriors some will have the rage for CL/HS while others rage starve when these abilitys are used.
Not sure if there is a solution to that...

[uffela]

A followup video from the same author. Pretty useful info. Particularly about the dungeon XP bonus -- 250% XP for elites inside of dungeons rather than 200%. I wasn't aware of that and it's not documented anywhere I could find.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xrJ56pzDExc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GXPu3jEZ0-I these videos are very good ...

[Apatheist]

Main issue with the warri rota is that cleave and heroic strike are rage dump abilitys. So with multiple warriors some will have the rage for CL/HS while others rage starve when these abilitys are used.
Not sure if there is a solution to that...

I can think of a few ways to handle heroic strike and cleave. None of them will be flawless but they should be good enough for grinding dungeons.

A two step ISB action with a castsequence macro would be the simplest option.



Step 1
#showtooltip
/cast [nostance:1] Battle Stance
/cast Overpower

Step 2
#showtooltip
/castsequence reset=6/combat Mortal Strike, !Heroic Strike

Haven't tested with the new API but this should automatically use overpower whenever it procs, pool rage for MS/BT and then use one cleave or heroic strike while your primary skill is on cooldown. If you get to a point where you're frequently pooling too much rage you could add another HS to the castsequence. It depends on your gear level and weapon.

[ANG853]

Goal: 5 man “raidtrash” farming


Survivability is foremost focus. -majority of party should be able to resurrect or soulstone
then “ease” of rotation
overall hit points/avoidance/mitigation is third in importance
quality of life (ie summons, maybe mage water/food) is fourth


Speed of DPS is important as well but is last because my experience shows the previous four things make you get the most gold/hour by decreasing time played per dungeons clear


average playtime in game to get back and forth to repair vendor and recover is lowered by summons/plate wearers


My possible combinations

1 lock 4 Pallys (slow aoe)


2 lock 3 Pallys (medium aoe)


3 lock 2 Pallys (above average aoe)


1 lock 1 Mage 3 Pallys (Nice average of what I want, one paladin can holy the other 2 BOTH tank!)


2 lock 1 Mage 2 Pallys (Really goodAOE)


1 Lock 2 Mage 2 Pallys (Best AOE)


I think the healer should be pally due to wearing plate and mana economy


I need good AOE farming, but also need to survive top preraid last dungeon bosses and most importantly “raid trash”


Any thoughts?


My previous attempt in The Burning Crusade I only got my 5 man mixed team to level 65 in dungeons

[Acidburning]

Goal: 5 man “raidtrash” farming


Survivability is foremost focus. -majority of party should be able to resurrect or soulstone
then “ease” of rotation
overall hit points/avoidance/mitigation is third in importance
quality of life (ie summons, maybe mage water/food) is fourth


Speed of DPS is important as well but is last because my experience shows the previous four things make you get the most gold/hour by decreasing time played per dungeons clear


average playtime in game to get back and forth to repair vendor and recover is lowered by summons/plate wearers


My possible combinations

1 lock 4 Pallys (slow aoe)


2 lock 3 Pallys (medium aoe)


3 lock 2 Pallys (above average aoe)


1 lock 1 Mage 3 Pallys (Nice average of what I want, one paladin can holy the other 2 BOTH tank!)


2 lock 1 Mage 2 Pallys (Really goodAOE)


1 Lock 2 Mage 2 Pallys (Best AOE)


I think the healer should be pally due to wearing plate and mana economy


I need good AOE farming, but also need to survive top preraid last dungeon bosses and most importantly “raid trash”


Any thoughts?


My previous attempt in The Burning Crusade I only got my 5 man mixed team to level 65 in dungeons

5 man raid trash = ZG and AQ20 ?

[Lewsifur]

For trash in raid zones, the best of all my teams was 5x paladins in legion using pro healing system. Slow kills but unkillable. Not sure how that has panned out tho in Classic

[Apatheist]

You can't "tank" raid trash as a 5man in vanilla. The only way to farm trash (the trash that can be farmed) is by kiting it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjDnlpznMtg&t=112s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjDnlpznMtg&t=112s)

[Ughmahedhurtz]

You can't "tank" raid trash as a 5man in vanilla. The only way to farm trash (the trash that can be farmed) is by kiting it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjDnlpznMtg&t=112s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjDnlpznMtg&t=112s)

48 minutes for a single pack... I think I'd rather watch reruns of Ow My Balls.

[Hksix]

I can think of a few ways to handle heroic strike and cleave. None of them will be flawless but they should be good enough for grinding dungeons.

A two step ISB action with a castsequence macro would be the simplest option.



Step 1
#showtooltip
/cast [nostance:1] Battle Stance
/cast Overpower

Step 2
#showtooltip
/castsequence reset=6/combat Mortal Strike, !Heroic Strike

Haven't tested with the new API but this should automatically use overpower whenever it procs, pool rage for MS/BT and then use one cleave or heroic strike while your primary skill is on cooldown. If you get to a point where you're frequently pooling too much rage you could add another HS to the castsequence. It depends on your gear level and weapon.

After thinking about it I see 2 potential problems with this.

1.) if you are only generating minimal rage then you are losing dps by forcing a heroic strike instead of waiting to MS again. Heroic strike use means less white hits = less rage coming in = less damage going out, which is why at higher levels it’s only used when you have excess rage
2.) the other problem is the opposite. If you are getting too much rage then you’ll need to bind heroic strike separately because you can’t dump enough rage as you want. I don’t see this being as big of an issue as the first one

[Apatheist]

48 minutes for a single pack... I think I'd rather watch reruns of Ow My Balls.

True but the payoff is pretty huge. https://classic.wowhead.com/item=23221/misplaced-servo-arm

2.8 Speed one handed mace that's pretty close to anything outside of KT weapons. Also not unique so you can DW them. The fact that you can solo farm these weapons is pretty ridiculous. MMO Players are a lot "wiser" than they were during vanilla. I suspect stuff like this will be common knowledge and we'll see a ton of players who have never even killed a Naxx boss running around with these equipped.


After thinking about it I see 2 potential problems with this.

That's why I mentioned you'd need to adjust the HS/cleave depending on your gear level. Your rage generation is dependent on how good your gear is. Better weapons generate more rage. Once you have two decent one handers and 8%+ hit you will almost always have at least enough rage to weave one cleave between whirlwinds or heroic strike between bloodthirsts. No solution is going to be perfect. That's the trade off when you box games. Your rotation is rarely going to be executed as flawlessly as a character being actively controlled.

In PvP I wouldn't bother with cleave or HS at all. I'd pool rage and actively MS/WW/execute on all characters for maximum burst.

[Acidburning]

True but the payoff is pretty huge. https://classic.wowhead.com/item=23221/misplaced-servo-arm

2.8 Speed one handed mace that's pretty close to anything outside of KT weapons. Also not unique so you can DW them. The fact that you can solo farm these weapons is pretty ridiculous. MMO Players are a lot "wiser" than they were during vanilla. I suspect stuff like this will be common knowledge and we'll see a ton of players who have never even killed a Naxx boss running around with these equipped.


we gave 2 of these to our enh shammy. I main'd a priest in vanilla. Pretty fun to healbot him in bgs. I forgot about naxx trash farming. Thanks for the reminder :]

[Apatheist]

Some useful info here about resetting dungeons to farm/grind efficiently.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CuEzXay-PbA&t=550s

[Moorea]

Some useful info here about resetting dungeons to farm/grind efficiently.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CuEzXay-PbA&t=550s

Thanks, it's not in the video (or at least not at 550s) but it is in the description:

Here is how to do it!
1: Join a group with a friend who is questing/farming in the world/or can chill in a party while you farm! THEY NEED TO BE LEADER!
2: Solo clear your dungeon!
3: When you are ready to reset tell your party member you are logging out and ask him/her to reset the dungeon as soon as you go offline.
4: logout and wait for your party member to reset the dungeon, if you are not in direct communication with them give them 20-30 seconds to reset before logging back on.
5: Once you log on the dungeon will be reset and you will find yourself back at the start!
TIP! - some dungeons that have multiple entrances may put you back at the start of a different entrance portal (Mara runs) If you are at the wrong portal, zone out, and run to the correct entrance - it won’t count as multiple resets as you are entering the same dungeon lockout but just at a different location.

[xandorz]

What is the most efficient way to do the dungeon reset as a multiboxer?

Based on the description I assume that the most efficient way would be to:
Make a raid.
Login on another character on 1 of your account and invite it, so 6 characters online from 5 accounts.
Clear dungeon.
Logout with all except for leader and login on the other character.
Pass leader to the other character.
Logout on the last character in dungeon.
Reset with the character that isn't in the dungeon.
Login again with all the characters in the dungeon.

Or for farming easy low lvl dungeons to not have to relog so much:
Leave 1 character outside dungeon.
Logout with all characters in dungeon.
Reset.
Login.

[Apatheist]

Join a group with a friend who is questing/farming

In the video he also says you can do it with an alt.

Create a raid, invite your 5 main characters plus a random alt (can be level 1.)

When you want to reset log out your party, log in your alt and reset. When you log your party back in all of the characters that were inside the dungeon will be at the entrance. The only downside to this is that you can't complete quests while in a raid group so if you're leveling you'll have to do it the old fashioned way. At least for your first clear.

[Gala]

That's why I mentioned you'd need to adjust the HS/cleave depending on your gear level. Your rage generation is dependent on how good your gear is. Better weapons generate more rage.
The rage generation also depends on how much dmg you take. The warrior who is tanking the mobs in a dungeon will have significant more rage than the other warriors. Using the same dmg rota on all warriors sounds suboptimal since they won't have a similiar amount of rage.



No solution is going to be perfect. That's the trade off when you box games. Your rotation is rarely going to be executed as flawlessly as a character being actively controlled.
Well, on many classes the PvE dmg rota can be executed flawlessly as a multiboxer. Especially in classis wow where the dmg rotations are much less complex than in BFA.
Warrior is here rather the exception because rage makes their dmg rota harder to control than on other classes.

[Apatheist]

Warrior is here rather the exception because rage makes their dmg rota harder to control than on other classes.

If you adjust your macros appropriately the DPS will be close enough to make little difference. Heroic strike accounts for around 30% of your overall DPS as a warrior. Missing a few might reduce that by 5-10% at most.

Suboptimal warrior DPS is still better than mage DPS.

[Gala]

If you adjust your macros appropriately the DPS will be close enough to make little difference. Heroic strike accounts for around 30% of your overall DPS as a warrior. Missing a few might reduce that by 5-10% at most.
Missing cleaves on mob packs sound like a rather huge DPS loss though.


Suboptimal warrior DPS is still better than mage DPS.
In case of raids I believe that multiboxing multiple mages would be more efficient and easier to control than warriors.

[Apatheist]

Missing cleaves on mob packs sound like a rather huge DPS loss though.

In case of raids I believe that multiboxing multiple mages would be more efficient and easier to control than warriors.

That depends on the encounter. Some encounters melee just stack and DPS while ranged have to deal with more movement and decursing.

While cleaving packs you're going to be using cleave, whirlwind and/or sweeping strikes. Cleave uses a lot more rage than heroic strike so there's less opportunity to pool too much between cleaves. As a percentage of your total damage done, missing a cleave every now and then isn't going to make or break you.

Even frost mage with a 1 button rotation is impacted by not being able to manage movement efficiently. If your cast bars aren't perfectly synced and one mage moves while frostbolt was 75% cast, then repositions and begins casting again, that's 3-5 seconds you've done zero DPS. As I've said, you won't be able to execute any classes rotation flawlessly regardless how simple because you won't ever have the same level of control as a single player.

The nice thing about vanilla is that doesn't really matter. None of the raids are that difficult that you're struggling against enrage timers as long as everybody is at least competent.

If you're that concerned about micromanaging hs/cleave you could always make a bar swap macro to manually manage when each of your characters dumps rage. I just think the DPS increase will be minimal versus the extra effort.

[Gala]

That depends on the encounter. Some encounters melee just stack and DPS while ranged have to deal with more movement and decursing.
Ofc every boss encounter is different and makes one role easier than another
Nonetheless it's generally easier to multibox range damage dealer in a raid than melees.

There is no encounter in any classic raid tier that can't be easily managed while boxing. I would think mages would be a great class choice with this in mind. Stacking 6-8 mages in a raid is great with ignite stacks and decursing plays a big role in a lot of fights.

It seems like we agree on that point...

[Apatheist]

It seems like we agree on that point...

Sure but not because range are easier than melee. That is definitely the case in other expansions but in vanilla melee is frequently the easier role, not having to deal with any of the movement, CC or support functions casters do.

If his intent is to box as part of a raiding guild then the only two real options are mages and warriors since it's not viable to stack any other class heavily. Bringing 8-12 warriors and 6-10 mages is standard. All of the other DPS classes are limited to 2-4 slots.

[Gala]

Sure but not because range are easier than melee.
Then pls elaborate the reasons why you believe that mages are the better choice for raiding. It's a bit contradicting to what you actualy say here because according to you warriors would be easier to control in boss encounters and deal more dps than mages.
That are both solid arguments to pick warriors over mages for raiding as boxer.

[Tsazao]

I'm surprised how many people are doing melee's. IWT was added in WotLK, did they keep it for Classic? Old school melee boxing is pretty painful.

[Ughmahedhurtz]

I'm surprised how many people are doing melee's. IWT was added in WotLK, did they keep it for Classic? Old school melee boxing is pretty painful.
It was in the beta/stress, yes.

[nodoze]

I think I missed this thread while I was traveling and found it a really good read with lots of great points from many different people from many different angles.
The rage generation also depends on how much dmg you take. The warrior who is tanking the mobs in a dungeon will have significant more rage than the other warriors. Using the same dmg rota on all warriors sounds suboptimal since they won't have a similiar amount of rage. ...This is a good point assuming "all Warriors being equal" but I don't see this as being a big issue depending on whether you have a "main" and what character you "drive" with...

In my case I plan to have one primary "main" Warrior who will get all the best Warrior gear/drops first in my group and I plan to "drive" from that Warrior. Our "main" Warrior is also the only Warrior I plan to be taken into Raids (at least until some Raids are on "farm") so likely that "main" Warrior will always be significantly ahead of the other Warriors on Gear/DPS/threat and thus should be taking the most/all of incoming damage. Anyone running a 3+2 setup in a similar manner can likely have a more simple rotation on the 2 extra/background Warriors as each should have similar rage build/expenditures because the "main" foreground warrior will be the one with the most variability. Initially you may need to be swapping defensively more on the "main" Warrior but over time as that Warrior gets higher Tiers of Raid gear he should be able to face tank more and more content in max DPS spec (especially with 2 Paladin's flash healing him) and thus you really should only need to be micro-managing & optimizing 1 Rage bar in that approach... Even if you find Threat ping-ponging aggro/damage more than you would like you may be able to use ISBoxer to quickly switch to the incoming damage Warrior and optimize his rage bar yet always send reduced rotation commands to the out of focus Warriors in the background.

Note that the above assumes that you would be only taking 1 Warrior to Raids and it is exciting to hear that maybe all 3 Warriors would be welcome in Raids at some point (at least to raids on "farm" and/or to raids for helping folk catch up on lower tier gear) as it would help the other 2 Warriors not be too far behind...

One question I have regarding maybe multiboxing multiple characters in raids:

If you were bringing 1-3 Warriors to Raids (maybe only the raids on "Farm" or what not) would it make sense to also bring at least 1 Paladin that stays up in melee range with the DPS?

My thought would be that Paladin could be keeping smite/judgements up on the primary DPS target and flash healing himself and the DPS melee (and rebuffing them periodically) and maybe be a backup healer for the Tank. It makes sense to me but I don't know if having one or more Paladins up with the melee DPS group was a thing in Vanilla or not. I also don't know, regardless if that composition was a thing, whether that group [1 Paladin+3 Warriors] would be something a semi-competent boxer could/should safely bring to the raid...

For reference part of the reason I don't know if that would make any sense is because my brother and I were not big Raiders in Vanilla because we mainly did our Paladins in BattleGrounds and focused on PVP gear instead of Raid gear...

[Apatheist]

bringing 1-3 Warriors to Raids

One issue that's just occurred to me is that warriors are often expected to tank in raids. Even as DPS, you'll be asked to off tank quite often. That's one reason why warriors receive so many raid slots. Might cause issues if you're boxing warriors and aren't prepared to tank. Paladins are generally assigned a tank to heal anyway so dual boxing 1 warrior and 1 paladin and healing yourself should be familiar enough to manage.

A decent raid will have 4 paladins (for 4 blessings) and all will be holy. There's really no reason to bring a ret paladin to raids. Where your paladin positions depends on the raid encounter and raid comp. Sometimes you'll be stacked with the melee depending how many ranged characters are in the raid. In heavy melee cleave raids (MC speed runs, etc) you'll be spread out at range to minimize the number of boss mechanics that target the melee stack.

[nodoze]

One issue that's just occurred to me is that warriors are often expected to tank in raids. Even as DPS, you'll be asked to off tank quite often. That's one reason why warriors receive so many raid slots. Might cause issues if you're boxing warriors and aren't prepared to tank. Paladins are generally assigned a tank to heal anyway so dual boxing 1 warrior and 1 paladin and healing yourself should be familiar enough to manage.

A decent raid will have 4 paladins (for 4 blessings) and all will be holy. There's really no reason to bring a ret paladin to raids. Where your paladin positions depends on the raid encounter and raid comp. Sometimes you'll be stacked with the melee depending how many ranged characters are in the raid. In heavy melee cleave raids (MC speed runs, etc) you'll be spread out at range to minimize the number of boss mechanics that target the melee stack.All great points. I like the idea of starting with just my Paladin main and getting the feel of things and maybe from the beginning try to get the raid leader assigning me to be up with the melee group and ideally focused on those that typically stay with the melee core. Then once pretty comfortable & on an easier raid where we are short a Warrior maybe step up to also bring a single Warrior (duoing with the Paladin) and work up from there if things go well. If you are well known to the raid leader and show consistency and are clear up front with each other on the things we can safely do then things should have a good chance to go well. Until I got much more comfortable I would want to try to stay away from either main tanking or off-tanking while multi-boxing at first. Maybe I am over worried about that as off-tanking with a duo Warrior+Paladin may well be easier than running a full 5man team in a dungeon where you are doing all the DPS in addition to Tanking and Healing...

[Apatheist]

If you don't name all of your characters really obvious goofy names like bobone, bobtwo, etc. and just bring one healer and one DPS the raid probably won't even notice you're boxing. Play your main until you're comfortable enough with the raid and then just try to get your "friend" invited.

[nodoze]

If you don't name all of your characters really obvious goofy names like bobone, bobtwo, etc. and just bring one healer and one DPS the raid probably won't even notice you're boxing. Play your main until you're comfortable enough with the raid and then just try to get your "friend" invited.Good point. Yeah my brother and I have very distinct names for our mains as they are our original character names from back in our D&D/AD&D days growing up. The other 3 characters also have distinct names that mean something to us from years past as well. Odds are we both may be coming to raids some but with his health issues he likely can't be as consistent as me (plus he only wants to PVP and he is not one to grind or repeat stuff too many times so he maybe would do a progression raid until we conquered something new and then a few more times but likely he wouldn't want to keep coming back). I thus likely can do it for both of us pretty seamlessly when he can't/won't. I probably could work in a natural transition where they were used to my brother and I and then I could start by just taking over here and there and would just likely whisper to the raid leader something like "my brother had to go AFK so I am multi-boxing his character for now so please keep my Paladin and his Warrior together on the same team"... Over time that may allow it to naturally become the norm with my brother just showing up for the new raids and PVP...

[waddles]

If you don't name all of your characters really obvious goofy names like bobone, bobtwo, etc. and just bring one healer and one DPS the raid probably won't even notice you're boxing. Play your main until you're comfortable enough with the raid and then just try to get your "friend" invited.

I don't think lying to your raid, especially if the raid is all other members of your guild, is a smart long-term strategy. You'd be much better off being honest with the raid/guild leader. If they need bodies and you can bring two that you can play competently, I don't think they'd care if you are playing both. If they find out you've been lying to them, to the whole raid/guild on an ongoing basis, well I don't think you'd get invited back.

[Ughmahedhurtz]

I don't think lying to your raid, especially if the raid is all other members of your guild, is a smart long-term strategy. You'd be much better off being honest with the raid/guild leader. If they need bodies and you can bring two that you can play competently, I don't think they'd care if you are playing both. If they find out you've been lying to them, to the whole raid/guild on an ongoing basis, well I don't think you'd get invited back.
+1 (Insightful)

[Nessimon]

I am having a really hard time deciding on the 5th member of my dungeon group. It's a horde melee cleave, so 3 warriors + shaman is a given, but the last spot is giving me trouble.

Considering 4th Warrior, but worried if the shammy will be enough as a solo healer.
The Bad: Shammy has no backup rezz except for ankh, no spirit regen in combat. One more warrior to get the same gear as the other 3.
The Good: Chain heal is great. Significant increase in cleave damage and simple to control thanks to 4+1 setup.

Priest. Not very impressed with adding a priest atm.
The Good: Great healer. Dispell magic, Fade. Possibly Spirit Tap, but imo that's overrated.
The Bad: Doesn't bring much except the healing.

Druid. Feels like a versatile choice.
The Bad: Not the most efficient healer. Only AoE heal on a long CD. No regular rezz.
The Good: Brings Mark, Thorns, Innervate, Faerie fire, Decurse, Combat rezz. Can switch to tank at 60 for +3% crit aura, or anytime the healing from a shammy shows to be enough.

2nd Shaman.
The Good: Can supply more totems (most likely not useful anywhere but bosses or some big areas), easier to control thanks to 3+2. Having two alternating healing allows one of them to regen (and mana spring and tide become viable).
The Bad: Similar drawbacks as the 4th Warrior, but having two lessens some of the issues.


Atm I am leaning towards druid, mainly because of all the various stuff he brings. With the shaman throwing a chain heal here or there, healing shouldn't be an issue. Ability to switch to bear and start swiping seems to be handy pre-36 and at 60 especially. Second choice are the two shammies, mainly because of the simpler piloting and so I can balance their specs/gear depending on how much I need healing.

Am I missing some important Pros or Cons of any of these variations? Any input appreciated

[nodoze]

Nessimon,

Ultimately it comes down to your goals. Do you plan to take your team into World PVP (WPVP)?

If yes you really should consider 2 Healers as it is much easier to focus 1 healer down and then wipe a healer + 4 Warrior group than it is to kill 2 healers and then wipe the +3 Warriors...

There are discussions of this elsewhere but a 4Warrior+Healer can work in dungeon clears but you really need to run warrior as a Tank and the other 3 DPS.

With 2 Healers the 3 Warriors can all focus on DPS and a given warrior can switch to be more defensive in situations where the incoming damage gets too high.

Both should be viable and somewhat comparable for PVE but the 3+2 should be more surviable for PVP...

If I recall correctly Druid Healers are interesting in that their single main heal actually varies significantly in cast time. That variability allows the same heal to be like a flash heal when you down rank it and like a deep heal at the higher ranks and the mana costs scale (plus you have some HOTs and what not). With Druid you could go bear or get heals, ranged DPS, or some stealth options, or a PVP Flag Carrier depending on what gear you equip (and all fairly decently from a single spec).

2 Shaman may actually not be bad. If I recall correctly 2 sets of totems can stack pretty well and they can cure each other plus their totems can help cure well. It is also nice that both are semi-tanky in mail+shield & they can both chain heal and chain lighting.

If PVP is a focus, one thing you may want to consider is what debuffs your two healers can clear and a cheat sheet is HERE (https://cwl-forums.s3.amazonaws.com/a95359cc-fa14-48f6-aaed-dc2fabb91c5c.png). 2 Shaman can cure poison & disease on each other or the warriors but have no counter for Curses or Magic debuffs... Adding a Druid allows you to also remove curses & adding a Priest allows you to also remove Magic debuffs but that assumes the shaman are not CCed... On the Horde-side it is kinda a 'whack-a-mole' catch-22 scenario which is part of the reason duo-Paladin in PVP is OP as BOTH can remove 3 types of debuffs...

Hopefully some Horde folk can chime in. My Shaman experience was mainly BC+ so others can likely give you their thoughts on 4+1 and 3+2 (or 3+1+1) in both PVP & PVE...

[Vipeax]

N
There are discussions of this elsewhere but a 4Warrior+Healer can work in dungeon clears but you really need to run warrior as a Tank and the other 3 DPS.
No, you run all 4 as DPS.

[nodoze]

No, you run all 4 as DPS.It depends on your gear and level.

What is the highest dungeon that has actually been cleared in Classic WoW so far with 4+1 with no warriors in defensive stance with shield?

[Vipeax]

It depends on your gear and level.
How come? You shouldn't do orange dungeons and after that you're wasting a slot. The damage in classic is insanely low.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W1FuMa3OyiM&feature=youtu.be

Most people running warriors will run a shaman so they get Stoneskin totem like shown at the start of this video. 15 damage/hit means this tank needs 71 hits with 0 healing to die. A tank is a wasted slot.

[nodoze]

How come? You shouldn't do orange dungeons and after that you're wasting a slot. The damage in classic is insanely low.

...

Most people running warriors will run a shaman so they get Stoneskin totem like shown at the start of this video. 15 damage/hit means this tank needs 71 hits with 0 healing to die. A tank is a wasted slot.What is the highest dungeon that has actually been cleared in Classic WoW so far with 4+1 with none of the warriors ever switching to defensive stance with shield?

[Vipeax]

What is the highest dungeon that has actually been cleared in Classic WoW so far with 4+1 with none of the warriors ever switching to defensive stance with shield?
Can't link it, because of private server policies, but all the way to 60, including LBRS on similar tweaked environments.

[nodoze]

Can't link it, because of private server policies, but all the way to 60, including LBRS on similar tweaked environments.Private servers aren't Classic servers and I doubt the Private Servers are limited to ~1.2 Tier gear like we will be in Phase 1. We won't even get 1.4 Tier gear till Phase 2. I suspect many private servers are at 1.12 gear Tiers which means they have tons better world drops and BoEs available.

Bottom line is no one knows for sure what will be doable in Classic WoW at launch and what will be capable with the gear we will restricted to until Phase 2...

It is better to be pragmatic and conservative and plan for the worst than caviler and definitive that things are doable.

A 4+1 with at least 1 Warrior geared for and practiced at Tanking will have a much better chance of clearing dungeons on the way to, and at, cap than a 4+1 that is only setup and practiced to run all as DPS. Once you have run a given instance enough times that you have it on farm and/or have typical upgrades from it that you should get from a fairly new dungeon to your team then certainly you may find that all in DPS is better.

[Vipeax]

Warriors have always leveled by just equipping a shield in 'PUGs' while leveling. Running around with 2500 hp, prot talents and a shield is a waste when enemy mobs hit you for 30-40 damage/hit. This is my last reply on this one, because it is a pointless discussion if you ignore numbers from 3.5 months of stress- and betatests.

[nodoze]

Warriors have always leveled by just equipping a shield in 'PUGs' while leveling. Running around with 2500 hp, prot talents and a shield is a waste when enemy mobs hit you for 30-40 damage/hit. This is my last reply on this one, because it is a pointless discussion if you ignore numbers from 5 months of stress- and betatests.If you are saying that at least 1 Warrior will be Sword & Board (S&B) then we may not be that far apart on what we are saying. I don't believe most of are saying a DPS warrior is running S&B and/or in Defensive stance regularly...

From memory I am pretty sure in the 4+1 config the recommendations were having just 1 Warrior more defaulted to Sword & Board (S&B) giving taunts and pushing aggro and the other 3 defaulted to 2-Handing initially and later dual-weilding. The designated S&B tank may go deeper in Prot than the others but still has some DPS talents and can switch to 2H/dual-wield on trivial stuff but for bosses and harder content he is keybound, practiced, & designated to pull in S&B & push aggro while the other 3 come in as 2H (or dual-wield) not pushing aggro...

In the 3+2 all warriors are pushing DPS with 2 handers/dual-weilding and no one is pushing aggro and the higher incoming damage is less of a concern as you have 2 healers flashing & the aggro should be ping-ponging spreading it out more... If you try to run a 4+1 that way (all 4 DPS with no shield defaulted and no one controlling aggro) the concern is that either the spike damage will be too much for a single healer or the single healer may go Out of Mana (or both).

The gear and specs can be fairly close for all the warriors to cap though if you are designating one to push aggro his spec will be more defensive & you could tilt his gear more defensive and tilt the DPS warrior's gear more offensive... That isn't saying your Tank has to be one big meat marshmallow and cant also focus on DPS from time to time.

[gormless]

I noticed a blue post that impacted my choice of DPS for ranged.

https://us.forums.blizzard.com/en/wow/t/new-bug-battle-shout/249633

I'm running Warrior, Priest, Lock, Lock, Mage. It probably won't have much real impact but I settled on a second lock just to get a 7th target of battle shout to help with warrior AoE threat. I imagine hunter pets benefit too?

[Apatheist]

I don't think lying to your raid, especially if the raid is all other members of your guild, is a smart long-term strategy. You'd be much better off being honest with the raid/guild leader. If they need bodies and you can bring two that you can play competently, I don't think they'd care if you are playing both. If they find out you've been lying to them, to the whole raid/guild on an ongoing basis, well I don't think you'd get invited back.

You're underestimating the irrational dislike for boxers many people have. Just mentioning you're boxing will get you kicked out of many PUG's. Or they wait until after the boss is dead and try to pull the, "you only get to roll on one drop playing two characters" or some such nonsense. I've found it's better to just not mention it. As long as you pull your weight, it's not an issue.

Raiding with a guild is obviously a different story. If you're in a guild for a while people will notice you boxing whether you tell them or not.


What is the highest dungeon that has actually been cleared in Classic WoW so far with 4+1 with none of the warriors ever switching to defensive stance with shield?

All dungeons on private servers can be cleared using a tank in DPS spec/gear so the same should be true on retail considering private server dungeons mobs are significantly overtuned. There may be a few situations where having a macro to swap to a shield and defensive stance will be useful. For example, to pop retaliation, AE taunt and then BoP. In general though, as long as you're pulling sensibly you don't need a shield equipped or defense gear. In fact, you don't want defense gear because it reduces your enrage uptime.

Something to consider is that, since all of your warriors will act as both tank and DPS, it will impact your preraid BiS choices. You don't want too much leather/mail gear on a character that will be taking damage regularly. In classic all you really need to tank is effective health and threat.

[Perrigrin]

Question on group comp:

I am intending to 5 box with two main goals, in order of priority:
1) Being able to 5 box for attunments and gear and cash at 60
2) Being able to level in instances (as I find this more fun than questing)

My original intent was a warrior+3 mage+priest comp - With one of the mages being my raiding main (I do not intend to box anything raid related).

But, due to various reasons I am now considering a shaman main.

How do I fit that in with the 2 above goals?
1) Shaman swapped in for healer in place of the priest - I think that might hurt at least the leveling process, as I'm not sure the shaman can heal AE situations
2) Shaman swapped for 1 of the mages - Not sure if the mages will be strong enough to do AE in instances - And, if feels like the boxing setup will be wonky (think shaman would be elemental in this scenario)
3) Warrior swapped to shaman tank - Might work ok, but thinking that from princess and onward, this will be hard (and not sure what this would do to my raid spec at 60, granted I can probably raid as enhance)
4) Change group to 4x warrior + shaman - But have no experience with the melee groups (at all) - So not sure how this would meet my two goals? Also, no mage for water and travel will impact gold income, as well as convenience of ports
5) Mixed group - Thinking war,shaman (elemental or resto), mag, lock, priest - But this would be harder to execute, and reduce AE potential vs pretty much all of the scenarios
6) 5x shaman - easy to setup, but how would it meet the goals?

Long post, but really looking for input and advice - Thanks!

[nodoze]

Perrigin,

For 1) the 4 Warrior+Shaman in a melee-cleave would likely be the most efficient at cap assuming a single shaman would be fine healing that group to cap, at cap, and from a single spec that allows you to do all the other content besides dungeons (if any) you want your Shaman to do at cap. From 40+ the Shaman has Rank 1-3 Chain Heals which should be very nice AoE-ish heals for the party (downranking for efficiency when appropriate). That is all assuming the Shaman can do all of that without going OOM. Unfortunately I didn't play Shaman in Vanilla and have never played on private servers so hopefully others can chime in. That group should only ever need Water for the Shaman so it shouldn't be too costly and the gold from 4 Warriors cleaving though dungeons with WindFury should more than cover that!

Since frequent repecing can get very costly one key will be finding a spec which can do the role(s) you want for the content you want at cap.

What content do you want to use your Shaman Main in besides dungeons, if any (WPVP,BattleGrounds,Raids,etc)?

For each type of content, what role(s) do you want your Shaman Main to be able to do effectively without respecing between content?

Once you answer those questions the key will be specing into a single spec that meets those goals yet still allows you to heal your melee-cleave team. Most likely that will put you in some kind of Elemental-Resto spec and hopefully someone with more experience can chime in with recommendations once we have more context.

Note that most of the above is centered on PVE boxing dungeon efficiency... If you do plan to do WPVP with your group may want to look at swapping in a 2nd Healer and/or even switch to a different group if doing WPVP (with your full group and not just your main) is a big priority.

[Perrigrin]

@nodoze - thanks - I should have mentioned, on a PVE realm and will only PVP in BGs (and then not boxing).

And to expand my question - Do you think the 4x DPS warrior + Heal Shaman would clear 60 instances better/easier/faster than a 3x mage, war, priest setup? I know that wasn't my original question :P

[nodoze]

@nodoze - thanks - I should have mentioned, on a PVE realm and will only PVP in BGs (and then not boxing).

And to expand my question - Do you think the 4x DPS warrior + Heal Shaman would clear 60 instances better/easier/faster than a 3x mage, war, priest setup? I know that wasn't my original question :PYes that is my understanding and that is big part of the reason many people are running with "Melee-Cleave" setups over "Spell-Cleave" setups. There are great videos on youtube showing both in action and contrasting and comparing pros/cons.

For motivation purposes you can read the following regarding some relative bench marks which among other things compares the DPS of Warriors vs Mages:

https://www.dual-boxing.com/threads/55446-4-pallys-1-druid?p=420038&viewfull=1#post420038

The thing I like about the melee-cleave approach is that it is based on an endless resource (Rage) instead of Mana and the DPS scales to good size mob packs (ideally max of 6 or so if my memory is correct?) so you can just be a buzz saw and keep running (as long as the healer(s) keep up). Paladin healer(s) make a great complement with melee cleave as they are the most mana efficient healers in the game with the right talents. At first glance a single Paladin is a little scary with no active AoE (or even AoE-ish) heal but this can be offset by the Warriors running with Crusader Enchants (https://classic.wowhead.com/spell=20034/enchant-weapon-crusader#comments) using BloodThirst (https://classic.wowhead.com/spell=23894/bloodthirst#comments) on targets judged with Seal of Light (https://classic.wowhead.com/spell=20349/seal-of-light) giving lots of healing on Warrior hits helping soften healing spikes (especially when they work up to dual-wielding!). If incoming damage still seems too high even with all that you could swap a DPS boosting Blessing for 'Blessing of Light (https://classic.wowhead.com/spell=25890/greater-blessing-of-light)' on the Warriors until the gear improves. Personally if I was on a PVE server, with no other goals except dungeon grinding efficiency & feeding my Paladin gold/drops, I would try to go with 4 Warriors and likely tilt one Warrior toward being more Tanky & push Aggro on him (in gear/talents/stance/etc) and let the others go full out ham on whatever gear/spec/etc is best for DPS (though all would be doing as much DPS as the Paladin could handle). With that in mind were I to be running a Shaman instead of Paladin on a PVE server, provided my assumptions in my previous post are valid, I would still run 4 Melee-Cleave Warriors with Crusader and instead focus on totems that boost & maybe heal the warriors (including WindFury) & trying to get away with rank 1 Chain Heals (the most mana Efficient) and see if i can mix in mana totem without sacrificing warrior efficiency. In the end if you have to sacrifice a totem &/or talent that would otherwise boost your Warriors but instead use it to regen your Shaman's mana and that keeps you from stopping to drink you may find you prefer that more and the sacrifice is worth it.

The above being said, I am on a PVP server and want 2 Healers for PVP, which pushes me toward 3 Warriors+2 Paladins and while that will certainly drop DPS for the group and I will likely have more spiky damage (as I run all 3 tilted DPS) both will be partially offset with 2 Flash Heals & 2 Blessings/Auras/Judgements & running both Paladins up with the melee and attacking as well. After 5boxing & 10boxing Shaman in BC+ in many ways I would prefer WPVP with 4+ Shaman with Turret style Chain Lightnings, Chain Heals, and instant Ghost Wolfs but since my disabled bother's and my focus are historically tanky Duos in BattleGrounds (traditionally duo Paladins) I really have to go multiple Paladins & at least 1 Warrior to support that.

Since you confirmed you are on a PVE server the remaining questions that come to mind are what roles (DPS, Heals, or both) do you want to push in BGs, WPVP (main only), & in Raids?

Once that is known you hopefully can get a good single spec that does what you want to do on your main at cap in the desired content yet still allows you to efficiently support your dungeon grinding (non PVP) Warriors.

Since I only boxed Shaman on the Alliance-side in BC & WoTLK I found the following Guide to be interesting and likely would be a good starting point for you:

https://classic.wowhead.com/guides/shaman-healing-talents-builds-classic-wow

If you were solely focused on dungeon grinding and gold making efficiency with a Melee-Cleave group you may want to look into the something around the 'PVE Deep Restoration (tank / melee / Hunter group)' spec.

Since you want to also do PVP, if you want to be the best healer you can be in PVP, I would think you would want to look more at something based on the 'PVP Deep Restoration' spec.

Alternatively for PVP, if you want to be more Hybrid with good damage yet still have good heals, you may want to look at something based off of the 'PVP Hybrid' spec.

Note that while I liked that above guide I linked I don't feel qualified to evaluate those builds so hopefully others will chime in and indicate whether they agree with those builds or not and/or offer some alternative builds.

Personally I like the playstyle of big front liners face-tanking over frost kiting &/or sheeping before pulls when multiboxing so I would personally choose the melee-cleave approach over spell-cleave approach (plus the only thing I hate more than having to stop to CC prior is having to stop to drink after)... In the end I don't have a choice with my goals factored in as my brother will only play a tanky melee with me so I am just glad that the combo that meets our goals happens to be very efficient.

[fenerous]

@nodoze - thanks - I should have mentioned, on a PVE realm and will only PVP in BGs (and then not boxing).

And to expand my question - Do you think the 4x DPS warrior + Heal Shaman would clear 60 instances better/easier/faster than a 3x mage, war, priest setup? I know that wasn't my original question :P


I haven't tested it myself, but I'd imagine 4 warriors with crusader enchants plus a shaman would destroy pretty much anything in their path. Even if the shaman gets aggro, they are beefy enough to stay alive until one of the warriors picks up the aggro (I tanked every dungeon in vanilla with my guild as an enhance shaman).

Dropping WF totem with 4 warriors each equipped with the hand of justice just sounds hilarious to me.

[nodoze]

I haven't tested it myself, but I'd imagine 4 warriors with crusader enchants plus a shaman would destroy pretty much anything in their path. Even if the shaman gets aggro, they are beefy enough to stay alive until one of the warriors picks up the aggro (I tanked every dungeon in vanilla with my guild as an enhance shaman).

Dropping WF totem with 4 warriors each equipped with the hand of justice just sounds hilarious to me.Yeah I was wanting to try Crusader Enchants on both an Ironfoe mainhand with Thrashblade offhand & hand of justice and windfury.

[Kojiiko]

wow u just crushed my dreams after reading that, and I was going with one warrior ,3 mages and a priest... For an unexperince boxer i think melee would be hard for me

Ill stick with my guns thou

[Perrigrin]

wow u just crushed my dreams after reading that, and I was going with one warrior ,3 mages and a priest... For an unexperince boxer i think melee would be hard for me

Ill stick with my guns thou

Why do you say this? Melee certainly is harder (also warrior mechanics are harder than mage) - But a war+3x mage+priest will likley be able to clear all 5 man content very easy and smoothly.

[fenerous]

wow u just crushed my dreams after reading that, and I was going with one warrior ,3 mages and a priest... For an unexperince boxer i think melee would be hard for me

Ill stick with my guns thou

Are you worried about the warrior? If so, just drive him him, the mages and priest are super easy to control. There's a bunch of ways to set it up, the way I first did it was when I pressed one, the warrior charged while the rest tapped 's' to stop moving, gathered aggro and started blasting away, it's super easy.

[nodoze]

Both Tank+3 Mages+Healer & Tank+3 Warriors+Healer are very strong. One advantage of Mage based groups is that you can keep the Mages+Healer back and avoid them getting even splash damage from most things on the Tank. You also can see Aggro switching off the Tank better and have a little more grace time as targets turn & move between the Tank and the DPS group. Instance-wise I mainly 5 boxed & 10 boxed and my group was typically more of a Spell-Cleave group as frankly I found it safer & my default class for most roles were Shaman with Chain Lightnings and Chain Heals & Earth Shield and my favorite Tank was a Consecrating Protection Paladin with maximum reflection damage. Since I had 10 accounts but mainly did groups of 5 I usually had both Warlocks & a Mage to provide summons/stones and ports/water before my sessions to the 5 box group I was working on (I had 5 Warlocks at cap that I used with alts to summon places that ports were not convenient to. Between my 10 accounts through BC and WoTLK I had multiple characters per account at cap and had at least 1 character of every class capped (and 3 plus of most classes) so that I could mix and match and definitely found spell-cleave(ish) great so I don't mean to put spell based groups down or dissuade anyone from them. For mass WPVP I actually wish I was 5boxing or 10boxing a spell based group :-)

[rleur]

Am I crazy for wanting to run a 5 Pally team to clear dungeons? I know DPS won't be stellar but it seems as if all dungeons including UBRS might be a possibility with the high armor, healing, buffs, etc.. The 5 free lvl 40 mounts also are appealing. What do you all think?

[nodoze]

Am I crazy for wanting to run a 5 Pally team to clear dungeons? I know DPS won't be stellar but it seems as if all dungeons including UBRS might be a possibility with the high armor, healing, buffs, etc.. The 5 free lvl 40 mounts also are appealing. What do you all think?My brother and I have been playing Paladins since the 70s and play them in every game that has one. Huge fan of Paladins, including in Vanilla WoW, but I wouldn't run a 5man Paladin team for clearing dungeons. I would do at most 2 (1 Tank & 1 Healer or both Healers). The following is a discussion why:

https://www.dual-boxing.com/threads/55446-4-pallys-1-druid?p=420038&viewfull=1#post420038

[Mooni]

I had an idea while trying to think of something I haven't done before. Is catform swipe a thing in vanilla? What about a tank with 3 angry little kittens on autofollow spamming swipe(cat)?

[Skullmonkey]

What about a tank with 3 angry little kittens on autofollow spamming swipe(cat)? I don't know if viable, but I imagine 1 Feral Tank, 3 Feral DPS, 1 Resto Druid would be a blast. :D Could you stack 3 Rips???

[xandorz]

I think only bear have swipe in classic. (there is no cat form swipe when looking at the databases)

3 Rip wouldn't be too useful since you should only be able to get it off against raid bosses basically, with 4 characters dpsing you shouldn't really have time to stack combo points and have the enemy survive during the dot duration of rip.

I think you are supposed to use Shred with cat form also, which requires being behind the target so not great that you should use positioning.

I think druid dps is very low compared to other classes. I think they don't scale well with gear. I think in pvp they mostly do a dot up the target and kite while healing tactic.

I might be wrong ofcourse, I didn't play a druid. I remember they just tried to dot up in pvp then heal and I remember they they wasn't scary to fight, it was just that it was hard to kill them with their kiting so some fights could turn into a stalemate.

[Mooni]

I think only bear have swipe in classic. (there is no cat form swipe when looking at the databases)

Oh hecc, you're right. I was looking at WotLK. And with Divine Storm being out, back to the drawing board for all-melee AoE groups...

[xandorz]

I think a mix of warriors+either paladin or shaman to heal would be best melee group for dungeons.

5 Enh Shamans might be a great melee group for pvp. With all being able to heal, fear removal, grounding totem, Fire Nova Totem, Shocks, Purge etc.

I think they have 3 big weaknesses.
They can be kited easily (this might be countered by their shocks and if needed they can still use cast time spells).
I think they have low and unreliable damage. This might not be an issue because they should be able to burst a lot and instantly kill enemies. (combine auto attack or fire nova totem with shocks or stormstrike for a big burst of damage)
Mana issues. Might not be a huge issue in short pvp fights.

Can also get good weapons from raid thrash for both warrior and enh shaman.
1h from Naxx thrash (basically only way you can get better is from Kel'Thuzad)
https://classic.wowhead.com/item=23221/misplaced-servo-arm
2h from AQ40 thrash (proc might scale with spellpower, can get better from raid bosses but still it is really good and farmable for a multiboxer)
https://classic.wowhead.com/item=21856/neretzek-the-blood-drinker

[Perrigrin]

What level do you expect a 4 warrior + 1 resto shaman to be able to do RFC? It feels like the lack of CC would make that very hard with very little gear like you'd have?

[gormless]

What level do you expect a 4 warrior + 1 resto shaman to be able to do RFC? It feels like the lack of CC would make that very hard with very little gear like you'd have?

I'm guessing you'd have to just go as far as you can each time and get further and further each run. No info to back this up but I'd start at 12 when shaman gets Ancestral Spirit to be able to res the dead ones.

[Mooni]

What level do you expect a 4 warrior + 1 resto shaman to be able to do RFC? It feels like the lack of CC would make that very hard with very little gear like you'd have?In classic this was the first dungeon I ever did in a pug. It was level 14. I was a shaman and some priest reached out to me because he saw me on /who and asked if
1) I'd be comfortable tanking
2) If I had a shield (if not, he'd give me one)
3) if I had earth shock and would be willing to use it every 6 seconds 🤣

No wipes. The whole group was 14 when we started.

But as multiboxers I think you can show up at 10-12 and farm the worms and elementals at the entrance, and then maybe the first 2-3 troggs, before you run out and reset. The XP will go fast enough that you'll be able to plow through those troggs around 14 and then you'll be just fine with careful pulls once you get to the cultists. Don't forget to buy ammo or thrown weapons for your puller!

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

[Twl231]

So....have a mage in your party and a lock....

1. Finish dungeon
2. Have your mage portal/hearth to a city.
3. Log out on your other 4 toons
4. Mage resets the dungeon
5. Log back into your other 4 toons
6. They should be back at the start of the instance
7. Summon the mage back (might have to step outside instance to summon)

[nodoze]

So....have a mage in your party and a lock....

1. Finish dungeon
2. Have your mage portal/hearth to a city.
3. Log out on your other 4 toons
4. Mage resets the dungeon
5. Log back into your other 4 toons
6. They should be back at the start of the instance
7. Summon the mage back (might have to step outside instance to summon)I think people were recommending a 6th character which could be on one of your 5 accounts. One recent discussion on how to do this:
https://www.dual-boxing.com/threads/55897-WoW-Classic-stress-test-Ragefire-Chasm-(RFC)-Full-run-part-1?p=421818&viewfull=1#post421818

[Usmcgruntz]

I am trying a 5 man team of 1 priest and 4 mages for high end level gold farming and PvP. I just got to level 21 after 1 day and 6 hours of playing. I thought once I got my team into deadmines it would go quicker since questing with a 5 man team is extremely slow. But it has gone even slower without having a tank to mass pull and aoe. Plus I am spending a majority of my time making water and drinking more than I’m pulling. It is taking an ungodly amount of time. I think I’m going to take my warrior fury/prot warrior and run them through or make a new one for dungeon grinding because not having a tank is terrible. One person dies after every large pull or if I don’t pull enough and smaller pulls then it takes forever to complete the dg. Also I can’t tank the last boss in dead mines without dying. So I’m being to think it can’t be done efficiently with that comp. what is everyone else’s comp and why and what’s your experience on how long it takes to level a 5 man.

[nodoze]

I am trying a 5 man team of 1 priest and 4 mages for high end level gold farming and PvP. I just got to level 21 after 1 day and 6 hours of playing. I thought once I got my team into deadmines it would go quicker since questing with a 5 man team is extremely slow. But it has gone even slower without having a tank to mass pull and aoe. Plus I am spending a majority of my time making water and drinking more than I’m pulling. It is taking an ungodly amount of time. I think I’m going to take my warrior fury/prot warrior and run them through or make a new one for dungeon grinding because not having a tank is terrible. One person dies after every large pull or if I don’t pull enough and smaller pulls then it takes forever to complete the dg. Also I can’t tank the last boss in dead mines without dying. So I’m being to think it can’t be done efficiently with that comp. what is everyone else’s comp and why and what’s your experience on how long it takes to level a 5 man.If I recall correctly the recommended approach for 4M+Priest team is to take small clumps and AE them down and rinse/repeat and generally avoid bosses until you get up to cap and get semi geared.

It is one of the fastest approaches to cap with appropriate sized clumps and by appropriate I mean taking the biggest group you can kill without dieing which will vary somewhat based on your level compared to the dungeon.

I think folk are split about having a tank or not. Some folk who have one wish they didn't and some folk that don't wish they did. Tanks pushing AoE threat is harder after the nerfs awhile back but it does still work (just needs more shouts up front).

Personally I think it is wise to at least have an option for a Tank. If you already have one at cap and are fine with using it for running dungeons when your mages get to cap you may be best served to just focus on clearing clumps as fast as you can to get to cap and then mix in the tank when you feel it is warranted.

Maybe someone can give some insight into their setup/approaches and/or contrast/compare to what you are doing as your current team should be one of the fastest out there (if not the fastest) as long as you are OK with skipping hard bosses and just getting to cap ASAP.

[balton]

Anyone tried play with paladin and 4 mages... Can the paladin tank and healing efective?

[nodoze]

Anyone tried play with paladin and 4 mages... Can the paladin tank and healing efective?I believe Apatheist and some others are doing Paladin+4Mages.

IIRC Apatheist had shared how he was using his Paladin to kite mobs through Blizzard (different approach than just AEing clumps).

Between debuffs, silences, interrupts, & CC I would be concerned to try to both main tank and main heal from a single Paladin. Would love to see some videos of people pulling it off at cap but so far I have not and would think of a Tanking Paladin as at most an off-healer unless evidence is presented otherwise.

Most folk with a Paladin Tank are are doing PaladinTank+3Mages+Healer (either a 2nd Paladin or Priest).

[balton]

I was thinking If a team with 2 paladins and 3 mages works fine... When you play with a tank, healer and 3 mages, this work, but the leveling is more slow. If i use 2 paladins (1 tank and 1 healer), can i use one of this to do aoe damage?

[nodoze]

I was thinking If a team with 2 paladins and 3 mages works fine... When you play with a tank, healer and 3 mages, this work, but the leveling is more slow. If i use 2 paladins (1 tank and 1 healer), can i use one of this to do aoe damage?Yes a Paladin Tank is an AoE damage character who mainly generates threat via damage that is magnified, relatively, via their threat management tools (both magnification of their own threat and, if needed, diminishing of other's threat). Their damage is definitely not as high as any of the Mages but it is significant.

[Diwa]

Am I crazy for wanting to run a 5 Pally team to clear dungeons? I know DPS won't be stellar but it seems as if all dungeons including UBRS might be a possibility with the high armor, healing, buffs, etc.. The 5 free lvl 40 mounts also are appealing. What do you all think?

Based from YouTube, the only team I've seen beating Baron so far
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8PKUo8yEls

I want to farm that mount!

[nodoze]

Am I crazy for wanting to run a 5 Pally team to clear dungeons? I know DPS won't be stellar but it seems as if all dungeons including UBRS might be a possibility with the high armor, healing, buffs, etc.. The 5 free lvl 40 mounts also are appealing. What do you all think?

Based from YouTube, the only team I've seen beating Baron so far
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8PKUo8yEls

I want to farm that mount!Recently had an interesting discussion about 5 Paladins all running 'Blackblade of Shahram (https://classic.wowhead.com/item=12592/blackblade-of-shahram#comments)' due to double proc chance from Seal of Righteousness giving resulting in upto +250 all stats (or +275 all stats with Kings) and +25% haste (in addition to AoE heals, AoE mana, AoE stuns, AoE slows, & AoE damage) to the team. A video focused on the blade (not necessarily 5 Paladins):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZYPyCeeFpw

[Purpleflavor]

Recently had an interesting discussion about 5 Paladins all running 'Blackblade of Shahram (https://classic.wowhead.com/item=12592/blackblade-of-shahram#comments)' due to double proc chance from Seal of Righteousness giving resulting in upto +250 all stats (or +275 all stats with Kings) and +25% haste (in addition to AoE heals, AoE mana, AoE stuns, AoE slows, & AoE damage) to the team. A video focused on the blade (not necessarily 5 Paladins):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tZYPyCeeFpw
gotta be worth the insane farm, it has to be bis for multiboxing until tbc

[Kraxx]

Is it confirmed that Seal of Righteousness procs Shahram?


0.31 drop chance --> worst case 300 UBRS runs for each char?
If you have five of them before classic servers go down you are a lucky one :rolleyes:

[nodoze]

Is it confirmed that Seal of Righteousness procs Shahram?


0.31 drop chance --> worst case 300 UBRS runs for each char?
If you have five of them before classic servers go down you are a lucky one :rolleyes:
I don't know if it has been confirmed for sure on live Classic Servers specifically for BoS but double proc chance has been confirmed on many other melee items. I don't know if this was one of the items that got an increased drop chance when they later increased in Vanilla the drop chance for Baron's mount, Ironfoe, etc and it will be interesting if we get the increased drop chances in a patch like they did on Vanilla servers.. It would be a pretty crazy farm even with the increased drop chance...

[Ironbar]

Nobody has given any love to the 1-Prot Warrior 4-Elemental Shaman.

It's great burst damage all the healing you'll need (I rarely need to heal during any single pull and often go multiple pulls until I need to heal. I farm Live Strat for gold farming) and when things go wrong you have 4 reincarnates that can all rez. You aren't going to do the massive AOE pulls that mages can do, and you aren't going as fast as 4-warriors 1-shaman but I do a full strat live in about 30 minutes which is fast enough for me.

[Drakhoun]

Im just wondering. Could a WMMMP team do Strath Baron run?
I find the fights where the boss summons multiple adds are quite difficult to handle with AE spam as i go oom fast.

[Lyonheart]

Nobody has given any love to the 1-Prot Warrior 4-Elemental Shaman.

It's great burst damage all the healing you'll need (I rarely need to heal during any single pull and often go multiple pulls until I need to heal. I farm Live Strat for gold farming) and when things go wrong you have 4 reincarnates that can all rez. You aren't going to do the massive AOE pulls that mages can do, and you aren't going as fast as 4-warriors 1-shaman but I do a full strat live in about 30 minutes which is fast enough for me.

I might have to make a horde team because this is a close as you can get to Paly+4shaman, the team that brought me to this site back in BC ( and Ellay ) I still love that team the most. ( not great on live atm ) Or maybe druid(bear)+shaman

[Yukzor]

Nobody has given any love to the 1-Prot Warrior 4-Elemental Shaman.

It's great burst damage all the healing you'll need (I rarely need to heal during any single pull and often go multiple pulls until I need to heal. I farm Live Strat for gold farming) and when things go wrong you have 4 reincarnates that can all rez. You aren't going to do the massive AOE pulls that mages can do, and you aren't going as fast as 4-warriors 1-shaman but I do a full strat live in about 30 minutes which is fast enough for me.
Can you kill baron?

[SonyEQ]

Based from YouTube, the only team I've seen beating Baron so far
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8PKUo8yEls

I want to farm that mount!

Quiding makes it look pretty trivial:

https://youtu.be/pHeTc-Hv5PY?t=3609

[z0k]

Im just wondering. Could a WMMMP team do Strath Baron run?
I find the fights where the boss summons multiple adds are quite difficult to handle with AE spam as i go oom fast.

I think it would be difficult and I still have a ways to go but I think it would be completely possible.
The boss is a tank and spank with adds and AoE damage. Move tank and heals/dps into position, keep them in one spot, and burn the boss ASAP.
The adds are by far the biggest concern although the AoE damage creates some difficulty from a healing perspective.

I would probably drive from the priest and try the following different ways to handle them. A lot of this would be dependent upon how many casts it takes for the adds to die. I would not let Baron heal from the adds.

Strategies I would use to approach the add problem (in order):
1.) Strat water on priest.
2.) Holy Nova on priest, if only one cast, hope for best on mana
3.) Round Robin AE on mages, assuming it only takes one cast.

[Kurkis493]

I can do all the dungeons in classic. I've done UBRS clears with a buddy who plays prot paladin / 3x mage / holy paladin.

My comp is a warrior / 2x mage / hunter / priest. A 3rd mage would have been better but I raid weekly on my warrior and hunter which were my intentions going into classic. I will say that having the hunter with jumper cables can save some running back because a warrior / 3x mage / priest has no wipe protection.

[Weepy]

As WLMMP i have cleared all dungeons. For UBRS full run i invited 4 dps friends.

As for baron I just max range casters and downrank healing on the priest. Mana ruby and evocation for mages and a mana pot for the priest.
AE for adds and rest just pewpew.