1 druid tank, 1 druid heal and 3 rogue ? Viable for dungeon and wpvp ?

[Baltyre]

The focus is to have a fully stealth capable team for wpvp, seems kinda fun. (Maybe stealth run in dungeon ?)
But i know that the druid is far from the best tank, and i guess i will miss dispell magic from the healer (+slow cast from standard healing).
Do you think this is playable in dungeon ? For raid, i will probably focus on one character only.

And for wpvp, when you put aside the stealth part ?

Other problem that came in mind was : No rez on druid.
That can be really annoying. I guess i could stack the full team with engenering and jumper cable but it's not always working.

My memory from classic is bad (i was playing solo priest and only started boxing at BC) and i never played druids, so my knownledge about them is vague and incomplete.

[Purpleflavor]

I dont have personal experience with this comp, but if it helps at all,

it's a great boss farming group when you are a few levels above the dungeon. You're tank will almost never have aggro unless you give him a 10 second head start on every pull. You're almost better off just adding another rogue and evasion tank bosses. Your trash mob aoe will be phenomenal, and you'll have sap x 4.

it's pretty bad for group pvp.

[Moorea]

why not 5 druids in that case (still full stealth) ?
you get 5 brez no ?

[Apatheist]

I'd think 5 druids would be much better for boxing as well. Feral/resto with insect swarm would give you 10 DoT's, NS and decent cat/bear damage.

You'd still get ruined by fears in group PvP though. I just can't play a comp that doesn't have some way of countering AE fear. It's horrible.

[Moorea]

how do you counter a fear bomb ? interrupt the caster if you find them soon enough ? tremor totem ? (how about on ally side?)

[Baltyre]

Skull of Impending doom to prevent it when you see the priest running at you, but otherwise, yeah, pretty fucked by fear bomb.
I didn't plan this but i could eventually roll Horde so at least my rogue will get the racial to break it.
I thinks it less a bother than back in the day, especially with a full melee team, since you can ITW and usually get most of your team back without micro managing.

[Apatheist]

Skull of impending doom causes a small amount of damage over 10 seconds that removes CC that breaks on damage like polymorph, sap or seduction. The amount of damage it does isn't enough to reliably break fear or roots. Blacksmithing has a trinket that makes you immune and restorative potions can remove 1 debuff every 5 seconds but they're both on pretty long cooldowns. I'm not a fan of being reliant on long cooldowns to avoid CC.

Countering fears is one of the reasons I like having two paladins in my group. They can dispel single target fears on each other and if they both get feared, one can bubble or trinket and dispel the other. In a way it's more reliable than totems since a skilled player will kill your tremor before fearing.

[Baltyre]

It's a really interesting input, thanks.
Can you use restorative potion while feared ?

PvP tricket will be availiable after a while, does the druid and rogue one dispell fear ?

There is also the Ultra-Flash Shadow Reflector tricket who can be handy. (Reflect shadow spell for 5 sec, 5 min cooldown)

It's not an anti fear, but taurens druid have War Stomps that could be use to interupt (and of course will of the forsaken for the undead rogue)

I'm trying to evaluate if fear is a deal breaker, the way to counter it and so on.

[Apatheist]

Insignia of the Alliance removes fears but has a 5 minute cooldown. Versus a couple of people you might run into on your way to a dungeon or something that's fine but in large scale PvP where you'll be getting feared constantly it will be annoying.

You can't use restorative potion while feared but you get 6 ticks out of it over 30 seconds so as long as you use it at the start of a fight versus anything that can fear you, it should help. The problem with the potion is that it doesn't exclusively dispel fears. It just dispels the first debuff on the list. Fear and other hard CC effects should be displayed first on the left of your debuff list but I'm not sure how that works in classic. Needs testing.

[Baltyre]

If i skip the stealth part and do a :
1 prot war (Undead)
2 fury war (Undead)
1 hybrid dps/tank druid (Tauren)
1 resto shaman (Orc)

What do you think ? Viable enought for both 5man and wpvp ?

For the talent, i really dont know what to use :

For the resto shaman :
https://classicdb.ch/?talent#hZE00bhgZVf0poea
No idea if it's viable, i focus on 5man and wpvp content. Since i have a druid, i don't really fear about oom, so i'm more focus to get survivability and efficient direct heal.

The druid :
I guess, probably something like that : https://www.warcrafttavern.com/talent-calculator/druid/Axw8QATwN_zdATA
Mostly dps, can switch on bear if needed.

Really no idea about warrior, i need to search a little more about them.

For the good and bad :
-Seems decent in term of damage, i know druids dps are meh, but they get they bis weapon outside raid.
-Decent protection against fearbomb, 3 undead have will of forsaken, they warrior ability and i have a tremor totem. But not perfect thought and i will probably need to spec both Tauren druid & Orc shaman as blacksmith to get the anti-fear tricket.
-On wpvp, i can close gap with round robin charge with both war & druids, i have plenty of spell interupt option
-I think it's not a too bad buff synergie, totem to buff melee, druids buffs, inevervate to replenish mana from healer, worst case, i can probably switch the druid to heal in case of oom, one battle rez ...

[xandorz]

Restorative Potion shouldn't work against priest fear btw. Psychic Scream is not dispellable in vanilla wow (not a magic effect). Same with warrior fear.
Would work good against single target CC and Howl of Terror (2 sec cast) though.

3 war, 1 druid, 1 shaman should probably have quite good sustained dps.
I think the hardest things in pvp would be:
Frost nova would disable all characters for 8 seconds preventing you from dealing any damage.
Cone of Cold, Frost Trap, Entangling Roots etc would make it hard to deal damage.
No counter to CC except WotF and tremor totem.
No way to keep opponents away from healer.
Risk of getting stuck in terrain.
Risk of shaman getting CCed and opponents fighting from long range forcing you to run out of healing range.

In vanilla wow I had a green geared mage that beat a High Warlord warrior without taking any damage. That is how easily warriors gets kited, but with multiple and a healer it might not be as bad. Warrior also get no rage when attacking an absorption shield, stacking multiple and focusing ofcourse makes that not a big issue compared to only 1 warrior trying to get a shield down with no rage.

[Xyl41]

One of the big things it seems some people are missing is the starting zones. If you start in 3 different starting zones, you will be spending a good amount of time just getting your team together. This is more of a concern if you are starting boxing, but if you plan to level a solo main first then it won't be as much of a consideration as you can get a friendly warlock to help summon your team together.
As well, warriors already have a 10 second fear immunity on a 30 second cool down, since that seems to be one of your big issues, undead really won't gain you anywhere near as much as orc (AP on demand, extra stun resist) for your warriors.
Additionally, the one thing I will always suggest to any boxing team, have at least 1 mage in your group if at all possible. That will save you a lot of gold on food/water and give you portals to travel later.

[Baltyre]

Thanks for the input.
It's not gonna solve the issue anyway but do you know if the Gyrofreeze Ice Reflector works against Frost nova ?
https://classicdb.ch/?item=18634#comments

[xandorz]

do you know if the Gyrofreeze Ice Reflector works against Frost nova ?

Can't reflect AoE effects with reflectors. It works on some private servers though but I assume blizzard will do it correctly so it won't work in classic.

[Baltyre]

One of the big things it seems some people are missing is the starting zones. If you start in 3 different starting zones, you will be spending a good amount of time just getting your team together. This is more of a concern if you are starting boxing, but if you plan to level a solo main first then it won't be as much of a consideration as you can get a friendly warlock to help summon your team together.
As well, warriors already have a 10 second fear immunity on a 30 second cool down, since that seems to be one of your big issues, undead really won't gain you anywhere near as much as orc (AP on demand, extra stun resist) for your warriors.
Additionally, the one thing I will always suggest to any boxing team, have at least 1 mage in your group if at all possible. That will save you a lot of gold on food/water and give you portals to travel later.


I don't think the starting zone is a real issue, 2 or 3 hours lost does not mean much in the long run.
You made a valid point about the orc vs undead.
I will really miss a mage, but i want to stick to melee as much as i could.

[Baltyre]

For the teleport, after some thought, i'm thinking of this :

I will make an alt team with 5 warlocks level 20.
I will make 2 others team of level 1 character to have two of them stay side by side for each warlocks.


1 will be on the same account than my druid and stay at Moonglade.
1 will be on the same account than my shaman (the only one with goblin engenering and Everlook Transporter) and stay at Everlook
3 others will be on any of my 3 warrior accounts and stay at Gazedgan. (who have gnome engenering and Ultrasafe Transporter: Gadgetzan)


So when i want to make my team go somewhere, i log the warlock, 2 level 1 character, and summon all my team (except the player on the same account than the warlock, i can disconect the 2 level 1 when the 2 other players of my main team are summoned.)
For the last character who share the account with the warlock, i use his own teleport spell/tricket.


So that mean, i've got : Teleport to Moonglade at will, 3 teleport to Gazedgan every 4 hours, Teleport to Everlook every 4 hours.
From time to time, i will have to farm soul shard thought.

Do you think that can work ? Or it's not worth the hassle ? Or maybe i miss something and it's not doable.

[Apatheist]

1 prot war (Undead)
2 fury war (Undead)
1 hybrid dps/tank druid (Tauren)
1 resto shaman (Orc)


Feral druid would add MotW, -500 armor debuff plus 3% crit aura. Pretty solid DPS buffs for a warrior group. One problem is that you don't benefit from windfury totem in druid forms.

Overall though, 4 warriors and a shaman would be better DPS or 3 warriors and 2 shamans. 2 Shamans spamming downranked chain heal on 3 warriors would allow you to cleave pretty hard through most dungeons.

Also, you actually don't need to spec prot for tanking dungeons in classic. You can tank fine as arms or fury and do a lot more DPS/TPS. You don't even need defense. In fact, being crit helps since it triggers enrage. All you need is gear with a decent amount of armor/stamina. Just make a macro to swap to 1H/shield+defensive stance when necessary. 2H Fury is pretty solid DPS at low levels before you get enough hit rating to DW.

[Baltyre]

I'm a noob about vanilla, and i missed an important point with druid. I need positioning to use it as a dps effectivly. Not a big deal in dungeon but it will be hell in wpvp.

If i drop the druid to take a warrior, will my shaman have enought mana with this build to heal efficiently ? (i'm talking dungeons not raid)
https://classicdb.ch/?talent#hZE00bhgZVf0poea

Initially, when i wrote it, i was counting on the druid innervate for long fight.

Bonus question : Totem twisting is something i need to consider ?

[Apatheist]

I wouldn't bother with improved weapon totem. The DPS gain is minimal and you lose a fairly significant amount of utility. Just go full resto and the rest in enhance with improved guardian totems and instant ghost wolf. Mana is more based on gear and smart use of downranking than which talents you choose. Even as full enhance you can heal dungeons fine as long as you have decent resto gear.

Something like https://classicdb.ch/?talent#hZxbbZEfotVeqo

Also wouldn't bother with totem twisting. Huge headache for minimal gain and it nukes your mana pretty hard.

[Baltyre]

So after some thought, i think i will be rolling alliance with 5 druids.

The idea is for dungeon to be a classic Tank, 3 feral dps and a heal.
I will try to get a second equipement set with spellmagic, so i could switch my feral into caster if a boss mecanic is really more difficult with melee.

And on wpvp, open out of stealth with Starfire, and i can spam Moonfire and Insect Swarm. Or i can just go full melee cat on the outside world.


The team i have in mind is something like that :

Tank : https://classicdb.ch/?talent#0zLV0oZxxgscMdtV
Kinda basic tank, not much to say, this is the only one with Fearie Fire Feral (i guess it don't stack) and Leader of the pack. I miss improved thorn.


DPS 1 & 2 & 3: https://classicdb.ch/?talent#0zLV0oZxxMsfbbLVV0o
So the primary focus here will be feral dps. I'm interested by Insect Swarm because for a multiboxer in wpvp, an other instant cast is always something interesting, 5 moonfire + 4 Insect swarm, i think it could do some respectable damage. The 5 points in Nature focus are probably an error, i was thinking of an "O shit button" with 5 tranquility aoe heal, but it's maybe better to put the points elsewhere. I don't have Natural shapeshifter, so i could not use powershifting for long fight.

Heal : https://classicdb.ch/?talent#0zZxxMsfbbLxxckxo
So it's kinda an hybrid feral dps and healer. I want to have both Feral Instinct and Feline Swiftness to not be the weakest link while stealthed and be able to move fast on the outside world (i guess most of the time on the outside, i will just go full cats)
Is it enought to make this healer relevent for dungeon ? Maybe the 3 points in reflection could be spend elsewhere since i've got 5 innervate, i suppose mana should not be a real problem.

[Apatheist]

I'd just go HotW/NS spec on all 5 and swap gear whenever necessary. Heal on one until it's low mana then equip its feral set and switch to another slot to heal.

In theory, the 4 others should have time to regen back to full mana by the time the 5th is OOM and you have innervate for emergencies.

[nodoze]

I agree to go HotW/NS on at least 4 of the druids. Since you plan to have 4 melee'ing it may make sense for one to go deep enough to pick up the 3% crit from Leader of the Pack for the group.

[Lewsifur]

Th combo point os the cats may be a pain. You could use isboxers advanced system to make it manageable. I found with my druid team, that emergency moments were a pain as shifting out made you a fine paste.