5-box leveling, balancing efficiency and "safety" ?

[UFTA]

So I'm new to boxing, but I've decided that I want to 5-box a mixed group when Classic is released to give myself maximum gold farming options upon hitting 60 without having to separately level "farm" toons such as a mage or hunter. (I plan on maining a warrior)

I didn't want to add this post to the Classic mega-thread because my questions are not specific to Classic but would rather apply to any leveling scenario.
From reading many many leveling guides, it appears to be generally accepted that the fastest way to level is some combination of questing+grinding.

My big overarching concern is receiving false botting reports from ignorant players, and subsequently receiving false bans from ignorant GMs. I see that this is a thing that happens, and even if they might be overturned, I do not want to lose days of early-server leveling time having to fool with such nonsense. Even in the limited amount of low-level 5-boxing I've done in retail wow, I've been on the receiving end of whispers like "well that's not obvious at all lol" and so forth.

As a result, I feel like I want to avoid people as much as possible while boxing from 1-60 in Classic. That would seem to take questing off the table unless I'm able to do so in extreme off-peak hours. That leaves grinding as my primary leveling method.

My actual questions:
#1 - How much slower might it be to grind from 1-60 compared to questing+grind?

#2 - Are there any good instance grinds? I'm very interested in such spots as they would allow me to level in complete isolation with zero player interaction. For example, would grinding the non-elites in BRD be efficient at 52+? Any other instance grinds that would be comparable to open world grinds? Even partial instance grinds, resetting as necessary?

#3 - Am I just worrying way too much about getting reported and/or banned?

Thanks in advance!

[Jabberie]

Reports mean nothing if you're not doing anything bad.

[UFTA]

I've read numerous reports from boxers who got banned while doing nothing bad, and had to spend days getting the bans overturned.

[Jabberie]

The definition of bad is the issue. What we think is fine is not always fine and vice versa. Confirmation bias etc.

[UFTA]

Ok so,
If I'm 5-boxing Classic from 1-60, I will undoubtedly be reported multiple times because:
A - Most non-boxers can't tell the difference between boxing and botting, and
B - Most players are already under the impression that boxing is against the ToS

But if I am using nothing but ISboxer and the ISboxer addon.....can I assume that GM's will be able to see this and not ban me erroneously??

[Kayley]

You are worrying way too much about being temp-suspended. ;)

[JohnGabriel]

Ok so,
If I'm 5-boxing Classic from 1-60, I will undoubtedly be reported multiple times because:
A - Most non-boxers can't tell the difference between boxing and botting, and
B - Most players are already under the impression that boxing is against the ToS

But if I am using nothing but ISboxer and the ISboxer addon.....can I assume that GM's will be able to see this and not ban me erroneously??

Well maybe I could put you at ease. I have been playing WoW since shortly after christmas 2006, I started 5 boxing and 10 boxing sometime during the following year.

The number of times I have been banned: 0

Thats with 10 to 11 years of 4 hours a day multiboxing. I took a 3 month break from WoW when I boxed Rift, but then back to WoW.


But if I am using nothing but ISboxer and the ISboxer addon.....can I assume that GM's will be able to see this and not ban me erroneously??
No. If that worked then all the botters would just install isboxer. If a GM investigates you they'll look at your actions.

Just follow the rules, statistically you'll be just fine. And 10 years from now when you've never been banned either you can look back on this post and see how silly it was to worry.

[UFTA]

Ok that's helpful/reassuring.
Do you get a lot of the nasty/ignorant whispers from other players?

[WOWBOX40]

If you used to cheat on other games, have trainers etc, (before you plan to play wow), may i suggest that you reformat your harddrive and reinstall the OS before you start boxing ;) (warden, the "anti cheat software" gets installed when you install wow, it could detect your "old sins" hehe), if you happen to have some running accidently etc). Also try be vary of the content on any other harddrives connected to this pc. If it has a bunch of old "trainers" etc, remove those aswell.

Also, stay away from using "vpn", seems they dont like those and you can get flagged for a ban (though these seems to be easily "overriden" and you can get your accounts back). But probably safest to not have one when you play wow.

Be super critical of everything you install after this, like "software for keyboards" etc, as they can contain automation features, worst case scenario.

You can get some nasty whispers, but dont reply, just ignore them. They usually dont believe anything you will say anyway (and 99% will report you), so its a waste of time and effort. Though if they complain that you are tagging all the mobs in the area, and they cant complete their quest, let them get what they need, so they can be on their way (if not, gamemasters dont like it when/if you distrupt other players gameplay, could be a bannable offence if it goes too far for a longer periode of time).

Moral is: if you have to cheat in other games, do it on a different computer. And make sure it has never ever had any battlenet / wow installed on it before.

Good luck out there.

[MiRai]

I've read numerous reports from boxers who got banned while doing nothing bad, and had to spend days getting the bans overturned.
Where have you read these reports? On this site, there are, maybe, five players who've recently reported action taken against their account. Five out of, what must be, something like a thousand multiboxers total—the vast majority of whom have never had a single issue in years of playing multiple characters.

It comes down to... If you act like a bot and others think you look like a bot, then you're going to get reported for botting (or zone disruption if you run enough game clients).

EDIT: I forgot to add this, but Blizzard recently added this entry to their knowledge base:
https://us.battle.net/support/en/article/11704


If you used to cheat on other games, have trainers etc, (before you plan to play wow), may i suggest that you reformat your harddrive and reinstall the OS before you start boxing ;) (warden, the "anti cheat software" gets installed when you install wow, it could detect your "old sins" hehe), if you happen to have some running accidently etc).

Be super critical of everything you install after this, like "software for keyboards" etc, as they can contain automation features, worst case scenario.
Absolutely nothing I've quoted above is true, so please stop spreading this misinformation. You've been warned about this already, and this is your final warning.


You can get some nasty whispers, but dont reply, just ignore them.
I think the better thing to do would be to reply and not be a dick, because if you ignore them then you could easily be viewed as a bot.

[Jabberie]

Ok so,
If I'm 5-boxing Classic from 1-60, I will undoubtedly be reported multiple times because:
A - Most non-boxers can't tell the difference between boxing and botting, and
B - Most players are already under the impression that boxing is against the ToS




But if I am using nothing but ISboxer and the ISboxer addon.....can I assume that GM's will be able to see this and not ban me erroneously??
No, you cannot because it's not only what you're using but what you're doing that gets you in trouble.


If you look or act like a bot or someone up to no good then you'll get in trouble.
If all you're doing it playing the game properly, you'll be fine.


Like JohnGabriel, I have been playing and multiboxing WoW for a long time, June 2007. The longest I've ever not played the game was 2 weeks once. I went to Blizcon and had a vacation. Other than that, I play 3-7 nights a week for 2-5 hrs. I have never been suspended from the game.



If you used to cheat on other games, have trainers etc, (before you plan to play wow), may i suggest that you reformat your harddrive and reinstall the OS before you start boxing (warden, the "anti cheat software" gets installed when you install wow, it could detect your "old sins" hehe), if you happen to have some running accidently etc). Also try be vary of the content on any other harddrives connected to this pc. If it has a bunch of old "trainers" etc, remove those aswell.
Warden only cares about Blizzard based games and cheats that interact with those games.

Also, stay away from using "vpn", seems they dont like those and you can get flagged for a ban (though these seems to be easily "overriden" and you can get your accounts back). But probably safest to not have one when you play wow.
VPNs get you banned because they also are used by people that go cheat/bot/hack. Unless you're paying for your VPN, the likelyhood it's terrible is high.

Be super critical of everything you install after this, like "software for keyboards" etc, as they can contain automation features, worst case scenario.
smh...

You can get some nasty whispers, but dont reply, just ignore them. They usually dont believe anything you will say anyway (and 99% will report you), so its a waste of time and effort.
You're a dick if you don't reply and make multiboxers look bad. If you're a dick when you do reply, you make multiboxers look bad. If they are a dick to you, report them as if you were playing solo. Don't be the dick and report them on all your accounts, you make multiboxers look bad.

Though if they complain that you are tagging all the mobs in the area, and they cant complete their quest, let them get what they need, so they can be on their way (if not, gamemasters dont like it when/if you distrupt other players gameplay, could be a bannable offence if it goes too far for a longer periode of time).
Don't be a dick and stop players playing, simple enough logic.

Moral is: if you have to cheat in other games, do it on a different computer. And make sure it has never ever had any battlenet / wow installed on it before.
Don't be a cheating f..k, full stop.

[UFTA]

Thanks guys, that's helpful. I'm legit not trying to bot or automate anything. I won't even be doing any semi-afk wireless keyboard while I watch netflix type stuff. I'll be sitting at the monitor playing the game 100% of the time, so I'll take the word of the vets that I should be fine.

[Ughmahedhurtz]

Grinding/instance grinding used to be a thing, but Blizzard has steadily made that less and less useful over time. As of now, there really isn't much point in it unless you like grinding more than you like questing.


Thanks guys, that's helpful. I'm legit not trying to bot or automate anything. I won't even be doing any semi-afk wireless keyboard while I watch netflix type stuff. I'll be sitting at the monitor playing the game 100% of the time, so I'll take the word of the vets that I should be fine.
Just to add another data point, I too have been playing/multiboxing WoW off and on since beta and I cheat my ass off in single-player games and have been since well before WoW was invented. The worst I've ever gotten from a GM was "Hey, you boxing?" "Yep." "Cool. Happy hunting!" It's seriously as easy as actually playing the game (quests, dungeons, raids, PVP, gathering, etc.) and not abusing mechanics that were very obviously not intended.

Side note: if it sounds like someone is giving you advice on how to make sure there is no evidence of cheating so you can behave badly and probably not get banned, you would do well to consider that a poor source of advice. ;)

Best of luck in your adventures.

[Tin]

If you used to cheat on other games, have trainers etc, (before you plan to play wow), may i suggest that you reformat your harddrive and reinstall the OS before you start boxing ;) (warden, the "anti cheat software" gets installed when you install wow, it could detect your "old sins" hehe), if you happen to have some running accidently etc). Also try be vary of the content on any other harddrives connected to this pc. If it has a bunch of old "trainers" etc, remove those aswell.

To a certain level, I would like to endorse the opinion - as most of this is comming from non trustworthy pages online and you never know what is comming with thouse programs and if they keep something running in computer memory. (my paranoia)

- I have a autoclicker that I use for minecraft fishing farm on a privat server - but would never dare to have it runnig when playing wow - nerver got a warning to have it on my computer. Warden will only tjek what interacting with wow.

- If you get nasty whispers, and you will - just reply with "nice day to you too" - be the nice guy.

[Apatheist]

From reading many many leveling guides, it appears to be generally accepted that the fastest way to level is some combination of questing+grinding.

Keep in mind that most (all) leveling guides are written by people playing a single character. Many of the quests those guides suggest can take you hours to complete while boxing. Collection quests are a nightmare for us in classic. The quest items have low drop rates, you need a lot of them and you can only loot on one character at a time.

I prefer to use dungeons to level. I run around and collect all the quests then grind a dungeon until I have all of the gear I want and I'm an appropriate level for the next dungeon I want to do. Then I go turn in all of those quests and collect the next lot. Faster than questing in my experience and it allows me to stay geared so that by the time I hit 60 I'm in full blues and ready to start farming tribute runs and other 55+ dungeons.

As a point of reference, an average level 20 quest rewards around 1200XP. An average level 20 elite in a party of 5 rewards around 81XP.
XP = (Char Level * 5) + 45 (elite) * 2 = 290
PartyXP = 290 / 5 * (party modifier) * 1.4 = 81.2 rounded down to 81.

To achieve the same amount of XP as the average quest takes 15 kills in an equal level dungeon. A conservative 90 seconds per pack of 3 equates to 7.5 minutes of dungeon grinding to equal one quest. There's no way you can consistently complete a quest every 7.5 minutes. There's also no travel time in dungeons and the return only gets better as you level up and gain better mana efficiency, gear and AE skills so can start pulling more packs at once.

What might be helpful to the community is for somebody to put together a multiboxing specific quest guide that focuses on kill quests and single item collection quests with high respawn rates or that are group-lootable.

As for being banned, I boxed 5 from classic all the way to the start of MoP and was never banned on any of my accounts despite being reported many hundreds of times no doubt.

[Tin]

Joana is preparing to get back on a new speed running 1-60 in WoW (world record), and starting to make a new leveling guide, maybe some of this you can use

https://www.joanasworld.com/

[Ughmahedhurtz]

There's no way you can consistently complete a quest every 7.5 minutes.
Is it different leveling 1-100 versus 100-120? I'm pretty sure I turn in 2-4 quests every 10 minutes at least while leveling my recent 100+ teams in BoA.

[edit] Derp. Got my threads crossed. Unless they change classic quests notably, then yeah, I tend to agree with Apatheist.

[MiRai]

Is it different leveling 1-100 versus 100-120? I'm pretty sure I turn in 2-4 quests every 10 minutes at least while leveling my recent 100+ teams in BoA.
The OP was interested in leveling in Classic, which Apatheist was referring to.

[JohnGabriel]

The OP was actually talking about classic. Questing took hours, dungeons took hours, everything took hours. The casual player is going to take 2 to 3 months to hit level cap, about 6 to 10 days /played time. Thinking back to the demo, 7.5 minutes per quest sounds tough to keep up.

[Apatheist]

Joana is preparing to get back on a new speed running 1-60 in WoW (world record), and starting to make a new leveling guide, maybe some of this you can use

https://www.joanasworld.com/

Problem with all of these guides is that they're designed for single players. Just looking at the first page (1-12 Horde) I see 4 collection quests in the 1-6 section alone. That will take you at least an hour to complete on 5 characters even without competition from other players. You can grind to level 6 in 20 minutes and you'll earn more silver to train with while grinding.

That being said, my comments are all based on how actual classic servers played. Since they're already making changes it's possible they will increase respawn times/drop rates on quest items to be more like modern WoW or maybe even make quest items group-lootable. Though I watched MiRai's demo videos and that wasn't the case while he was doing the Red Leather Bandanas quest in Westfall. It took him a fair while to complete.

[Tin]

Problem with all of these guides is that they're designed for single players. Just looking at the first page (1-12 Horde) I see 4 collection quests in the 1-6 section alone. That will take you at least an hour to complete on 5 characters even without competition from other players. You can grind to level 6 in 20 minutes and you'll earn more silver to train with while grinding.

No area looting that mechanism was introduced in Mists of Pandaria - so you have to loot individuel anyway, to get that silver, so questing+grinding will very likely be faster and you get rep too.

[DasButo]

Once you get a toon to 60, dungeon boosting is another possibility as well.

[Apatheist]

No area looting that mechanism was introduced in Mists of Pandaria - so you have to loot individuel anyway, to get that silver, so questing+grinding will very likely be faster and you get rep too.

Not AoE looting. Many quest items were changed to be group-lootable by any character in the party that participated in the mob kill during Wrath.

In classic you can only loot one quest item per mob on a single character so you essentially have to do collection quests 5 times.


Once you get a toon to 60, dungeon boosting is another possibility as well.

Another point in favor of paladin tanks over warriors IMO. Paladins are amazing powerlevelers in classic.

[Ughmahedhurtz]

In classic you can only loot one quest item per mob on a single character so you essentially have to do collection quests 5 times.This is a really good point I'd forgotten. Same goes with those ground-object items you have to right-click on, as the multi-access object changes were also in later builds.

[Apatheist]

This is a really good point I'd forgotten. Same goes with those ground-object items you have to right-click on, as the multi-access object changes were also in later builds.

Yeah. Combine that with the fact that quest items in classic weren't guaranteed drops. Some had drop rates of +/- 30% so you can spend a long time trying to collect 15 snake legs each on 5 characters. Not worth the time IMO. You'll end up having to kill hundreds of mobs to finish a single quest. Ground-lootable quest items are just as bad. Each item has a respawn rate of 3-10 minutes depending on the particular quest. There's no fancy dynamic respawn rate on resources in highly populated areas. That's another late feature. You'll spend 30+ minutes collecting a mere 4 (* 5) mushrooms for the Fungal Spoors quest in the Barrens. That's assuming there aren't a million other people running around competing for the same items. Definitely not worth the time in my view.

My plan is to grind kill quests and mobs, collecting Deadmines quests along the way, until 20 when my paladins get consecration and my mages get blizzard then head straight for dungeons. Stopping only to get the important quests for each dungeon that reward worthwhile gear.

[DasButo]

I'm still torn between leveling a trinity team from the get-go, or a tank/healer duo and then PLing the rest after I hit 60. I wonder if replacing a mage with a balance druid for the crit aura would be worth it, especially if running a pally tank?

[MiRai]

so you can spend a long time trying to collect 15 snake legs each on 5 characters. Not worth the time IMO.
That's definitely not worth it since snakes don't have legs, and that's a 0% drop chance across the board. That may be the worst collection quest in the history of collection quests.


You'll end up having to kill hundreds of mobs to finish a single quest.
I think some (yet to be determined) collection quests may be worth it in the sense that you're already grinding in that area, and if you just set loot to free-for-all, you should then be able to only have to loot on your lead character until they have all of the item, and then move to the next. This is, of course, assuming that a follow/assist setup is being used that allows for control from any character.

[DasButo]

That damn Hardened Tumor from https://www.wowhead.com/quest=451/a-recipe-for-death damn near broke me...I think I cleared those islands in Lake Lordamere 3+ times before it dropped.

[JohnGabriel]

This is a really good point I'd forgotten. Same goes with those ground-object items you have to right-click on, as the multi-access object changes were also in later builds.

Making matters worse, Classic will probably have the modern WoW phasing making the areas much more populated. We'll be back to camping spawn points.

[Ughmahedhurtz]

Making matters worse, Classic will probably have the modern WoW phasing making the areas much more populated. We'll be back to camping spawn points.
https://imgur.com/gallery/I0ZFT4Yhttps://i.imgur.com/De3Dltr.gif

[UFTA]

Ok, thanks again to everyone who has replied.
You have assuaged my concerns about being erroneously banned, so that's very helpful.
I've also been very interested in the questing vs grinding discussion that has occurred in the thread.
That having been said, there's another variable that perhaps I hadn't considered when I posted the OP: mob density.

Now, there are unknowns here as relates to Classic. We don't yet know if Blizzard is going to implement tech such as dynamic respawns or server sharding in order to accommodate high numbers of players in close quarters like starter zones. Both of those things are tech that did not exist in vanilla wow, so they may or may not be used in Classic.

If Blizzard does not implement some kind of tech that makes more mobs available....then both questing and (world) grinding could be negatively impacted if too many players are in a zone. BUT, instance grinding wouldn't be affected at all by low or high server pops. This is another reason I'm keenly interested in the viability of dungeon grinding.

[Ughmahedhurtz]

Well, I wouldn't get too far down the rabbit hole yet as we don't even know what rules or patch items they're going to port over to the classic branch. It's probably a safe bet that they'll port some of the updated stability and ease-of-use UI improvements over, as I think they can get away with a lot of that without impacting the "flavor" of classic (e.g. quest progression rates, dungeons, character power, talents, etc.). Time will tell.

[Apatheist]

I'm still torn between leveling a trinity team from the get-go, or a tank/healer duo and then PLing the rest after I hit 60. I wonder if replacing a mage with a balance druid for the crit aura would be worth it, especially if running a pally tank?

If you just want a level 60 druid, swapping a mage out won't prevent you from clearing dungeons. Any tank, healer and 3*DPS combo will be able to clear dungeons. Some comps will take longer and may not be as viable in PvP. If you're doing it in order to gain DPS though, you'll lose more DPS replacing a mage with an oomkin than 3% crit will give you. A warlock would increase party DPS and provide more utility.

As far as efficiency goes -- I'm fairly sure you'll get 5 characters to 60 faster by grinding dungeons together rather than leveling in two separate groups. If you level in dungeons from the start you'll be in pretty much full blues by the time you hit 60 and geared enough to start farming preraid BiS. Here's a preraid BiS list (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1j81TgG0p_HrYKajiUiQfYIoSUx1culzy2u_Fc4wtiS8/edit#gid=955230722) so you can get an idea which pieces to aim for while leveling. As I've said before, the stat difference between rare and epic gear is immense in classic -- much more so than in other expansions. There are some level 40-50 rares and epics that are better than raid tier gear. Warden Staff (https://classicdb.ch/?item=943) and Smoking Heart of the Mountain (https://classicdb.ch/?item=11811) are good examples. Warden Staff is a level 43 item but is better than Naxx tier weapons for a feral tank.



I think they can get away with a lot of that without impacting the "flavor" of classic (e.g. quest progression rates, dungeons, character power, talents, etc.).


I'm one of those vehement "no changes" people but I can't see an issue with them improving back-end stuff, changing the launcher, etc. As long as the gameplay experience remains unchanged I'm fine. The fact that you can trade loot already put me on tilt a little. It shows they're willing to rationalize changes to actual game mechanics which (IMO) probably means we'll see them messing with PvP /follow and other nonsense that doesn't belong in classic.

[DasButo]

If you just want a level 60 druid, swapping a mage out won't prevent you from clearing dungeons. Any tank, healer and 3*DPS combo will be able to clear dungeons. Some comps will take longer and may not be as viable in PvP. If you're doing it in order to gain DPS though, you'll lose more DPS replacing a mage with an oomkin than 5% crit will give you. A warlock would increase party DPS and provide more utility.

As far as efficiency goes -- I'm fairly sure you'll get 5 characters to 60 faster by grinding dungeons together rather than leveling in two separate groups. If you level in dungeons from the start you'll be in pretty much full blues by the time you hit 60 and geared enough to start farming preraid BiS. Here's a preraid BiS list (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1j81TgG0p_HrYKajiUiQfYIoSUx1culzy2u_Fc4wtiS8/edit#gid=955230722) so you can get an idea which pieces to aim for while leveling. As I've said before, the stat difference between rare and epic gear is immense in classic -- much more so than in other expansions. There are some level 40-50 rares and epics that are better than raid tier gear. Warden Staff (https://classicdb.ch/?item=943) and Smoking Heart of the Mountain (https://classicdb.ch/?item=11811) are good examples. Warden Staff is a level 43 item but is better than Naxx tier weapons for a feral tank.


Yes, I'm fairly familiar with vanilla Druid gear, as I mained as resto through MC and had both of those epics (I leveled Ench just for Smoking Heart) :). Another thought with the Balance druid (aside from crit aura) was Innervate, since a Prot Pally stacking defensive gear will have a very low mana pool and will spend a bit of time drinking. I didn't play Alli until just before TBC, so my knowledge of Pallys during vanilla is limited.

[Apatheist]

Prot Pally stacking defensive gear will have a very low mana pool.

Not necessary IMO. With mages in your group you'll have unlimited water to drink between pulls. The only way you'll run out of mana is if you're spamming consecration non-stop. I macro seals/judgement and use consecration manually so I know it'll be placed properly and only used when necessary. You'll only ever be at risk of going OOM in raids where the fights are long enough.

Later on, you get plenty of gear with MP5 and intellect on it. The Deathbone set is great. Tankadin pre-raid BiS (http://vanillagaming.org/forum/index.php?topic=18468.0). The gear suggestions there are solid though I prefer the 20/31 (https://classicdb.ch/?talent#sVxuzxZEbtIxz0o) build that lets me heal or tank on either paladin.

Also, don't forget that most dungeons in classic are actually 10mans. Might be fun playing with other boxers doing UBRS runs, etc. Nice loot, too.

[uffela]

What might be helpful to the community is for somebody to put together a multiboxing specific quest guide that focuses on kill quests and single item collection quests with high respawn rates or that are group-lootable.

Good resource from r/classicwow, scroll down a bit and there's a color coded list that's easier to read: https://www.reddit.com/r/classicwow/comments/b7ou6l/wow_leveling_quest_list/

I set a filter on location and found it very useful for my Mulgore research.

[Purpleflavor]

Ok that's helpful/reassuring.
Do you get a lot of the nasty/ignorant whispers from other players?

it's a daily thing on my server ever since a few bad eggs multiboxed here during MoP. You can feel the hatred oozing through the message sometimes. Though i never bothered or even met most of these players, so i just shrug and move on. Don't let it get to you.